Dragon Kid

[Grimmas]

Discuss here.

[InYourCase]

Dragon Kid is really, really good. He was a little shaky in the Toryumon days. He's really gotten better as he's aged. He works a fast pace, but he's very in control now. He had a slow, smart, "psychologically sound" match with Flamita on 7/20 last year that really made me appreciate DK in a new light. The match isn't great, but DK is really good in it. I also have a soft spot for his match with Shuji Kondo from July 2004. Kondo literally throws him on his head and it becomes a great giant vs. cruiserweight match.

 

Not sure where DK will end up on my list. He'll probably end up being around Ryo Saito in that 70-80 range.

[BillThompson]

Not someone I'm considering. I've seen him in Toryumon and Dragon Gate, and never really enjoyed him in either. I have nothing against spot guys, because spotfests can be great. But, he goes beyond that and moves into the territory of a guy who moves so fats that nothing has a chance to breathe. Plus, when every single match of yours I've seen is a run through of super fast spots without anything resembling variety, I get bored of you really fast. For others that won't be the case, but when I don't like his style to begin with, it's hard for me to remain invested.

[WingedEagle]

As I make my way through Toryumon and Dragon Gate, Kid stands out as someone who basically never has a bad match.  He's always solidly entertaining at worst.  I'm not sure I'll find many, if any, classics on his resume which will certainly limit how he ranks for me but I can't rule out someone who's that good for that long.

[InYourCase]

Yeah, that's his ordeal. I don't know of a single DK match that was pushed in a big position that then underwhelmed. Of course, he also doesn't have the highest peaks. I ranked him in 2016, initially had him off in 2021, and then put him back on at the last second. His portfolio is just too strong. 

I would point to the Darkness Dragon match from 2002, a crazy, mask-ripping lucharesu match that is one of the high points of Toryumon, as one of his best matches. The other that I'd recommend is his match against PAC from 2019. By 2019, he's slowed quite quite a bit but he's become a much smarter worker. I personally prefer late stage DK because I think he's such a smart wrestler. 

Fwiw, the ROH six-man that everyone loves is a match built around DK. They went into that match with the intention of getting him over by the end of it. It worked. Also, the Unit Disbands match at the end of 2020 is largely worked around him. I can't recommend that match enough to people that haven't seen it. 

[WingedEagle]

11 minutes ago, InYourCase said:

Yeah, that's his ordeal. I don't know of a single DK match that was pushed in a big position that then underwhelmed. Of course, he also doesn't have the highest peaks. I ranked him in 2016, initially had him off in 2021, and then put him back on at the last second. His portfolio is just too strong. 

I would point to the Darkness Dragon match from 2002, a crazy, mask-ripping lucharesu match that is one of the high points of Toryumon, as one of his best matches. The other that I'd recommend is his match against PAC from 2019. By 2019, he's slowed quite quite a bit but he's become a much smarter worker. I personally prefer late stage DK because I think he's such a smart wrestler. 

Fwiw, the ROH six-man that everyone loves is a match built around DK. They went into that match with the intention of getting him over by the end of it. It worked. Also, the Unit Disbands match at the end of 2020 is largely worked around him. I can't recommend that match enough to people that haven't seen it. 

This match was indeed phenomenal and Kid was the highlight between his uphill fight at the end and how they used the mask.  I'm not sure how highly it would rate for people watching in a vacuum as opposed to having followed the path there, but the drama and work would probably stand out even without context.  

[InYourCase]

8 hours ago, WingedEagle said:

This match was indeed phenomenal and Kid was the highlight between his uphill fight at the end and how they used the mask.  I'm not sure how highly it would rate for people watching in a vacuum as opposed to having followed the path there, but the drama and work would probably stand out even without context.  

I think I find the "DG needs context" position to be a little overrated now for a few reasons. One, I just think the work speaks for itself. Context, for the most part, is no more important than emotional investment. Also, with the exits of guys like CIMA and Shingo, DG is working on the ground floor with the stories they're telling now. Maybe in five-ten years I'll be yelling about context again, but I don't think DG has ever been more accessible. Case in point, the Unit Disbands match. It's a pretty simple story. Old guys vs. young guys. What happens years from now with Dragon Kid and SB KENTo might right require some context, but for now I think it's self-explanatory. 

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1dK41137oe?from=search&seid=16633820914248083089

Here's the link to that match for anyone that hasn't seen it. I would put it in the Top 10 best Dragon System matches of all-time.