Ship Canal Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 I've been wondering for a while now about the status of title belts in CMLL... I've only got into Lucha properly in the last year or so and still watch less of it than I'd like to be honest. The presence of lucha de apuesta matches obviously means that often a title isn't at stake in some of the most hyped matches because the "bet" takes precedence... what is the standing in terms of prestige of each CMLL title with Mexican fans and/or wrestlers? Is there a belt most commonly associated with workhorses, for example? I know I could google this shit, but hey, this is more fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 I'm not really sure about modern CMLL. In the early 90s, EMLL changed its name to CMLL and overhauled all of its titles. Prior to that most weight classes had two championships contested -- a national title and an NWA world title. The NWA titles were generally more prestigious than the Mexican national titles, though the national titles were important too because of how wrestlers were pushed through the lucha mags. Generally speaking, holding a title of any sort meant you were good enough to be a champion and in those days being a champion carried a lot of weight. I would say that traditionally the best workers competed for the welterweight, middleweight and light heavyweight championships and generally moved up through those weight classes. Unlike in other countries, the heavyweight championship was never that prestigious and neither were tag titles. Trios titles came along a little too late to be as prestigious as the singles titles. There weren't Mexican National Trios Champions until 1985. I would say mask and hair victories far outweigh the significance of the national heavyweight title in Mexico. Hope that helps somewhat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pol Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 Wasn't CMLL originally supposed to be a kayfabe governing body of which EMLL was a part, or something? I know you can see both the CMLL and EMLL logos on the ring skirt at least as late as '97. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 I think they created CMLL as their governing body when they split from the NWA, but don't quote me on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 EMLL is still technically the promotion name with CMLL as the sanctioning body. It would be like New Japan being called IWGP instead of NJPW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 Honestly, it fluctuates depending on the situation. Whoever the top star at the moment is tends to be the most important belt at that moment. And sometimes the belts are little more than something for wrestlers to wear to the ring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenjo Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 I've never paid much attention to which title is being defended. In my notes I'll just put 'Title' rather than specify the belt. What's important is whether it's conducted in the traditional title match style, which probably doesn't happen much these days. It's not like in other countries where the belts are the focal point of a promotion. The mask is king. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ship Canal Posted November 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Awesome, thanks for the replies guys. Lucha was a blindspot for many years for me and I've only really begun to explore things fully in the past 6 months, mainly using the DVDVR set match listings, this forum and various podcasts for my primers. Consequently, I may have seen some traditional title matches but I probably wouldn't recognize one of it smacked me across the face. Is there a particularly quintessential lucha title match, of the type you refer to, Zenjo, that I may have seen/should seek out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenjo Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 You can probably find a detailed explanation about the traditional title match from some of OJ's posts here or his Great Lucha blog. In brief the match is supposed to be conducted in a technical style throughout. So strikes are frowned upon and the rulebook is rigorously enforced. Rudos would often have to completely change the way they fight to comply with the rules. Tecnicos should in theory already fight in a technical manner. Lots of matwork in the first and possibly second fall is a hallmark. The endings of the fall might briefly up the pace. The third fall would be like Mask/Hair matches with lots of near falls and 'Lucha Dramatica'. There are any number of examples. Around here El Dandy vs Angel Azteca 6/1/90 gets talked about a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ship Canal Posted November 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Ahhh OK, thanks. Well I've seen Dandy vs Azteca and having a bit more knowledge about the specific style they were working there has helped me better understand some of the psychology in that one. I think I'll rewatch that with this new knowledge fresh in my head. As is probably obvious from the above, I'm very much the kind of fan who believes that these kinds of contexts are key. That's a much discussed topic on these boards, I know, but if anything I feel knowing that will improve my enjoyment of the match, which I did find very arresting on a purely perforamtive level anyway, so that's cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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