German catch

[David Mantell]

Clean wrestling German style. Part of a January 1998 video release, about the best quality VdB production ever, reported lying marketed as a nostalgia "Wrestling How We Liked It" show.  I thought it got reviewed on the British thread but can't find it. I remember remarking on it highly resembling Joint Promotions TV footage 1985-1986 (I meant that as a compliment, OJ)

 They work the holds longer than in actual British wrestling and only Wright really uses kip ups and rollouts. Zrno somersaults backwards French style out of a loose hammerlock to convert it to a figure four top wristlock on the mat. Wright counters W ith a headscissors.Zrno flips out and after a round break they both go into folding press attempts. This leads into a test of strength which leads to bridges, trying to break them and more folding presses.

A female fan keeps shouting for Mile. At, one point male Northern English voice tells her to "shut up, woman." Wright is okay with it and leads the cheers for Zrno at one point. Apart from a brief exchange of forearms in the final seconds it stays scientific until the end. A nil nil draw.

Afterwards there is some sort of parade with all the wrestlers in the ring and the MC making a speech in German. They all leave the ring with medals round their necks.

Both these two wrestled for the CWA circa 1990, it's a pity they didn't have a match together then.

 

[David Mantell]

Quote

Conversely, there is also the VDB 1998 taping we discussed a few pages back (Marty Jones Vs Danny Royal, Mile Zrno Vs Danny Collins, Drew McDonald Vs Tony StClair) which is professionally filmed and looks and feels  for all the world like a British taping circa 1985.

 

div widget

[David Mantell]

Old black and white German footage found on Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/IlDragoDelWrestling/videos/367447659227841/

[David Mantell]

On 8/14/2024 at 12:07 PM, David Mantell said:

When Big Otto couldn't get famous Americans he would get completely unknown ones. Apparently Barbed was a jobber in the WWF the next year but that's all anyone knows about him.

http://wrestlingclassics.com/cgi-bin/.ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=038699;p=0

Match is generic 80s American power match. Germany/Austria, specifically the IBV/CWA, was the gateway Euro territory for North Americans just as Stampede in Calgary was the gateway territory for Europeans, especially the British. (Some French Catchers like Jean Ferre, Edouard Carpentier and Rene Toilet used the conveniently Francophone Montreal as an entry point.)

 

On 8/14/2024 at 8:18 PM, PeteF3 said:

I would assume that King of Prussia, Pennsylvania's favorite son Mr. Barbie was booked through Andre the Giant, since he was one of Andre's road caretakers/bodyguards.

This was him, apparently:

 

 

[David Mantell]

Quote

Axel Dieter vs. Mile Zrno (Hannover 1981)

This was a good match. It was quintessentially European, which made it easy for me to understand. The work wasn't that slick early on, but everything from the second round onward was solid and Dieter mixed in a lot of cool shit

 

Mike Zrno Vs Axel "Only One Shooter Here" Dieter, VdB, 16th October 1981  Hanover.  Gets off to a good scientific start. Dieter gets on the French style flying headscissors counter to armbar and takes Zrno down but Zrno goes into a headstand in the scissors and pushes up with his arms to pull his head free to a cork from a bottle. Zrno gets a hammerlock on Dieter which Axel converts  to a side headlock but Zrno goes into a bridge then flips back into his original hammerlock. Zrno returns the favour with the headscissors of his own in round 2 but he lands too near the ropes.  Excellent bridge from Zrno and a Clay Thompson style use of an ankle scissors to pull apart Dieter's headscissors in round 3.  Dieter gets an odd but effective hold on for sometime in round 4 where he pulls back Zrno's arms behind him like a surfboard and then scissors both arms and the shoulders too, like a full nelson done with the legs. In the end the time limit on the final round goes at a fairly random moment with the score at 0-0. Remembering both Bret Hart and Dynamite Kid's comments about Dieter's egotistical style of booking. I feel grateful for small mercies.

I guess this and Zrno Vs Steve Wright from 1988  is the typical German style of clean match. Not as intricate as the best British clean matches, not as acrobatic and flamboyant as Petit Prince Vs Michel Saulnier in France. A somewhat slower but worthy style of scientific bout.

*********

P.S.   So it's October 1981. Prince Charming by Adam and the Ants, Tainted Love by Soft Cell and Chant No.1 (I Don't Need This Pressure On) by Spandau Ballet have all been major hits the last 2-3 months. And what does the DJ play? Green Door by Shakin' Stevens! Bah.

 

 

[David Mantell]

On 8/23/2024 at 3:51 AM, David Mantell said:

Remembering both Bret Hart and Dynamite Kid's comments about Dieter's egotistical style of booking. I feel grateful for small mercies.

 

On 8/23/2024 at 3:51 AM, David Mantell said:

Axel "Only One Shooter Here" Dieter,

Axel Dieter Junior goes BALLISTIC if you mention his dad's pistol waving antics - or the dog food pie....

Oh and look who old man Axel is tagging with in this next bout! "Pull the ****ing trigger" then?

Quote

Axel Dieter/UFO vs. Ed Wiskoski/Moose Morowski (Hannover 9/15/81)

 

This was probably the best tag match I've seen from Europe covering as much 60s-80s footage as I can find. It's probably no surprise that three out of the four competitors are North American. Christ knows why it had to go so long. Thirty minutes plus without a winner and without the hot finish it needed to be a surefire nomination for the Europe set, but still it was a proper tag match. Funnily enough, they didn't apply Southern style tag psychology, it was just solidly worked instead of being treated like some kind of amazing stip match where there's no wrestling. Portland fans may be interested in Wiskoski's work, perhaps.

@ohtani's jacket erm, it goes to a time limit draw. I guess these 30-40 min tags had spread eastwards across the Rhine.  Not a scientific classic but the German fans lapped it up.  Odd to hear fans chant "ooh-fo, ooh-fo" - there have been many UFOs in wrestling history but most of them were heels, often masked.

Not sure how this is the best European tag match. Three Americans in the ring makes for not a lot of counters/escapes/reversals.   Early on Dieter has an opponent in a headscissor but he has to let go in the end as they don't know any escape move.  My vote for best European tag match goes to the Royal Brothers  Vs the StClair Brothers from 1971.

Colour signal on @sergeiSem's copy is badly deteriorated due to age or low generation 

Ed Wiskowski would later learn how to because racist South African colonel in Germany off Shaun Brody. (see his ,watch with Johnny Saint on the British thread.)

I like the bit at the end where Moose does powerlifts with the ring steps a la Dingo Warrior prior to the babyface turn.

[David Mantell]

35 minutes ago, David Mantell said:

Ed Wiskowski would later learn how to become a  racist South African colonel in Germany off Shaun Brody. (see his ,watch with Johnny Saint on the British thread.)

Talking of which, does anyone else in here think 80s South African Wrestling rather resembles the CWA?

 

[David Mantell]

Prince Zefy, probably my favourite of end of terrestrial TV/ post terrestrial TV period of French Catch, visits another European Territory, the CWA in Sept 91. Salvatore Bellomo was once Tino Salvatore, Italian babyface/blue-eye, appeared on World of Sport January 1973, made it to the Backlund era WWF where he got his later name stuck around for Hulkamania but never got the push. Mostly famous here in Britain for being squashed in 15 seconds by Kamala in bout 2 of the first ITV American WWF special in January 1987. Later rebranded inthe Savoldi ICW as Wildman Bellomo, a cross between Bruiser Brody and a Roman centurion, and eventually brought the act back to Europe whee he made it onto British TV again via Reslo as well as the CWA tournaments.

Typical skilled little man tries his luck with big monster match. Zefy appears to have Sal nailed with a flying bodypress but the referee is slow going down and Bellomo uses the extra time to roll through and upturns the pin attempt a la Richter/Kai at WM1.

 

[David Mantell]

On 8/12/2024 at 10:42 PM, David Mantell said:

Posted November 11, 2013

Axel Dieter vs. Moose Morowski (Hannover 1981)

 

This was pretty awesome. While the Zrno and Della Serra matches have some nice holds, this was a Dieter match with an actual narrative as Moroswki beat on Dieter and Dieter had to make a comeback. Dieter was a pretty decent brawler and from the limited footage we have his brawls are perhaps more compelling than his technical matches. I'm not sure that this is as good as their 1980 match, but it was the best of his '81 Hannover matches thus far.

 

I prefer scientific matches to brawls any day.

Still there are a couple of good little moments in there for a purist like me to look out for.  Moose was no  technician and didn't have much of a clue what to do when Dieter put on a headscissor and clearly called for a counter. So in the end Moose put on a headscissor of his own, leaving them in a 69 position.  So Axel let go, moved himself into the guard and folded Morowski's headscissor into a neat Frank Gotch toehold. The other good moment was with the finish where Dieter used the same full nelson scissor finish as the Zrno bout to put Mooser the Looser (sorry @sergeiSem ) out of town and out of the VDB and possibly back to North America where bookings awaited..

 

[ohtani's jacket]

Are sure that's the right match? They have two matches on tape. My post was talking about their match from 1981 not their more highly regarded match from 1980.

[David Mantell]

Hanover 1985 triple tag match (as we Brits called them.) Two of the six wrestlers here would have been familiar figures to me as a child wrestling fan in 1980s Britain. Rasputin was longtime Daddy fodder (with occasional appearances on Reslo between times) until a 1988 Battle Royal filmed days after WM4 saw Rasputin playing Bret Hart to Giant Haystacks's Bad News Brown, leading to a DQ win for the Mad Monk that I think I posted to the British thread or else the Why Is America Assumed To Be The Centre Of The Wrestling Universe thread which saw crowds side with Rasputin. The other familiar face would be Jorg Chenok or Baron Von Chenok, who showed up on FA Cup Final Day 1985 to drop the European Welterweight title he allegedly won off Wolfgang Saturski in 1981, to Danny Boy Collins. That time  Chenok was the subtle heel like Bret Hart at Summerslam 92. Here he is a good guy.

Not a lot to report technically about this bout. Good family entertainment but nothing much scientific. The good guys win 2-1 and that's about it. Crowd  get into it heavily.

 

[David Mantell]

2 hours ago, ohtani's jacket said:

Are sure that's the right match? They have two matches on tape. My post was talking about their match from 1981 not their more highly regarded match from 1980.

You could be right, I'll have a look at some point.

I stick to my guns about the general point re. Technical Vs Brawling.

Forgot to mention it's nice to see Germany had seconds like the UK and France.

P.S. Have searched YouTube, no sign of any other Axel v Moose solo bout. If you can find one, you're doing better than me.

[shiek75]

come across this channel for german catch, gladly signsquad is back  

https://www.youtube.com/@sign-squad

 

 

 

 

 

[David Mantell]

3 hours ago, shiek75 said:

come across this channel for german catch, gladly signsquad is back  

https://www.youtube.com/@sign-squad

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks. Subscribed.

 

[David Mantell]

Simon Garfield's account of British Wrestlers making the traditional trip to Germany. This was from 1995

[David Mantell]

Bryan Danielson aka Daniel Bryan has a similar story to tell, from eight years later in 2003:

[David Mantell]

On 8/12/2024 at 10:42 PM, David Mantell said:

Achim Chall vs. Caswell Martin (Hannover 1980)

 

I don't know the song Cas Martin came out to, but it sure was funky. Martin's stuff looked typically good, but I'm not sure he had the necessary drive to have great matches.

Caswell Martin had one of my all time favourite bouts this same year at the Royal Albert Hall with Marty Jones. Along with the Birmingham Steve Logan, he is one of my two picks for wrestlers who were never champions but frankly should have been. Achim Chall, an aging contemporary of Axel Dieter was not as skilled an opponent as Jones but he lets Cas show all his tricks to the German audience and they like it.

Like the Jones match, this ends on a refused-TKO no contest(after Martin suffers an arm injury.) He German audiences appreciate the spor.tsmanship like British audiences do.

Two odd things.

1) During the break after round 1 the DJ puts on 1978 Christmas hit Mary's Boy Child by Boney M even though it is early September.

2) The seconds wear red and blue V necked shirts as per their corner. The red corner second looks like a Star Trek redshirt!

 

[David Mantell]

A promising young kid versus one of VDB's Bald Old Boys brigade (see also Axel senior). Entry of the Gladiators is an odd choice of theme music. I know Joint Promotions used it at the Royal Albert Hall but most of the World still associates it with the Clowns coming on at the circus. Maybe Les Maniaks in mid 80s France should have used it.

As with other German clean matches they work holds for longer rather than going straight for the counter like in Britain or France.  Cf Kent Walton 's comment one time about Skill and Speed combined - Germany tends to neglect the speed side of the equation.  LL has a great version of the Steve Grey use of the leg to unpluck a wrist lever although his is more of a kick.  Chall gets an overhead snapmare while LL has him kneeling down in a chin lock.

D I S C O  by Ottowan during the round break really dates the video, in Britain it reached #2 about a month after this match, I remember kids singing it in the school cloakroom when it was originally a hit. The September 1980 Hanover Cup (the same month as the final International Festival of Kat's in Athens Greece) seems to have been VdB's starting point for filming matches like Otto's defence against Don Leo two months earlier in July was the start of the IBV/CWA filming its matches for home video.

Chall rather boringly buttock bashes his way out of a standing full nelson but then fires of a great blindside rear dropkick at his younger opponent. LL tries to handstand his way out of a headscissor but Chall gives him a mini piledriver then turns to the referee with a look that says "See I'm not so daft!" but then LL quickly springs up to his top end for an side headlock.

Chall has a standing hammerlock but LL reaches through his own  legs to grab and pull through a leg of Chall's and maintains the leglock through a few twists and turns, getting a nice clap from the audience for his efforts until Chall reverses it into a Gotch toehold and it developing it into a surfboard when the bell goes. Laurent is still selling it as he limps back to his corner and early in round 3 Chall looks like he might get the winning submission with a single leg Boston only for LL to toupee his way out. Chall gets the one required fall with a double underhook suplex and handshakes all round.

[David Mantell]

German news item on an open air show in a public square.  Check out he the footage of what nice family guys evil villains Haystacks, Quinn and Klaus Kauroff all were, hanging out with their kids on a campsite, picnicking with them and Karloff's eldest can already do a nifty back bridge.

[David Mantell]

Franz Schumann interviewed an working out in an empty prefab glass roof venue with a couple of other youngsters. Franz does a nifty French style flying headscissor takedown, a trainee does British style rollout/kip up.

 

[David Mantell]

On 8/12/2024 at 10:42 PM, David Mantell said:

Steve Wright vs. Maske USA/Catcher in the Mask (Bamberg 4/3/83?)

 

I don't know which name Maske went by, but it was Dave Morgan under the mask. Morgan was a solid Brit worker who spend most of his time overseas. We have footage of him from Germany, Austria and South Africa and possibly Canada. This was a decent Steve Wright showcase match with some cool Euro matwork in the early rounds. It descends into a niggly brawl with Wright getting too many payback spots for the level of niggle Morgan inflicted and shows the weakness in Wright's ability to structure matches, but if you like Wright it's worth watching.

 

 

@sergeiSem has it down as 3rd April, not 4th March. I've posted this occasionally as an example of what VDB was like as opposed to iBV/CWA but not really reviewed it. Unfortunately the audio is badly out of sync by about a minutr 

Definitely those early rounds show off what Wright could do and Morgan also (plenty of neat spring ups including out of headscissors.) At one point the referee trips up over the two competitors and gets rolled over by them as they struggle over a chin lock.

Things go sour when Morgan offers his hand as he did at the start but this time suckers Wright in for some forearm smashes and a lot of rope related fouling. Consequently there is a lot of Wright fighting fire with fire and the referee going a bit far with the "allowing for retaliation" as Kent Walton would say. One good bit where Wright catapults Morgan over the ropes to ringside. Most of it is Steve just lowering himself to the masked villains's level.

In Britain many blue eye Vs heel matchups were structured like this. A clean first half and dirty second half. Kendo Nagasaki did this a lot with skill opponents in the 60s/70s.

[David Mantell]

In 1995 Croydon Robbie Brookside turned heel on his Liverpool Lads tag partner Doc Dean and became an angry surly heel, his first heel run apart from under Kendo hypnosis. Although they buried the hatchet and went to do some jobs in WCW 1997, the Liverpool Lads fallout was just a taster for the HATED villain Wildcat Robbie Brookside would become in the CWA/EWP in the late 90s/00s as mentioned by Daniel/Bryan/Danielson above.  Here he is teaming with Fit Finlay against Tony StClair and Franz Schumann. himself no stranger to Britain - Simon Garfield describes him being beaten unconscious by Giant Haystacks at an All Star show in Tunbridge Wells 1992.

A few years earlier Brookside Vs StClair would have made a nice catchweight clean match on Reslo. Here it's like a heated heels Vs blue eye All Star tag of the early 90s involving the Superflies or Task Force One. StClair and Schumann are just as happy to throw the rulebook out as the villains.

Unfortunately it's hard to tell what the finish was as a bunch of fans stood up and blocked the camera view.

 

[David Mantell]

The next night at the same venue. August Smisl's traditional Ethnic beer music as babyface has them dancing in the front row, while heel Brookside comes to the ring to his legit musical tipple of thrash metal.  Smisl comes to the ring in floppy hat and farmer clothes like a Central European version of Hillbilly Jim.  Referee Didier Gapp is a veteran of New Catch and I think mid 80s Old Catch on French TV.

The audience is very pro Smisl, doing the American style chant "Go August go" in their local accent. Smisl is a big strapping guy specialising in powerful backdrops. When Robbie isn't shouting abuse at the Crowd he's begging Smisl to tone it down.  Robbie gets very annoyed with the pops for August, at one point digging out the old British reversals and rolls to show Smisl and the German crowd what he can do.

In fact the bout remains scientific if heated - with Smisl at one point pulling off a nifty French style headscissors takedown - until 3/4 of the way through when Robbie drags out some dirty tactics involving the ring apron and corner post, mainly focused on weakening Smisl's knee. This gets him a public warning but he continues to work with a mixture of dirty stomps and clean leglocks, even a stomp between rounds behind Gapp's back. Smsl rallies in the final round with American power moves culminating in a powerslam ("Rrrunungslam" says the MC) for the one pinfall required.

 

 

 

[David Mantell]

Not sure if Billy Samson is the same wrestler as Samson Ubo who appeared a few times on ITV circa 1987. He's big and muscular and not very skilled, Vince McMahon would have loved him.

In Britain Terry Rudge is a skilled scientific heel who pulls a few sly tricks now and then. In Germany he is a more consistently brawling and aggressive heel.  He seems to get fired up by the fans' chants for Billy - is his German that good?

Not  a great scientific battle. Plenty of holds from Rudge but Samson doesn't seem to know any escapes. Rudge gets quietly placed on the ring apron at one point by Samson which leaves him with an emasculated look on his face. Rudge does try a toupee and a fireman's carry suplex. Slow and solid but the crowd seem to like Billy.

Rudge is down for the count at 7 when the time limit goes. But they thought it was close enough so they give Samson the win anyway. Or something - my German isn't good enough to make it out but BS seems happy and raising his hands.

 

[David Mantell]

Quote

How NOT to use Johnny Saint! 

Courtesy of Germany's VdB, 1987 (You can tell it's Germany what with the gong instead of a bell and the DJ between rounds.)

 

And I'm not just talking about Brody's attempt at the end to outdo fellow "South African" Col De Beers - (incidentally the former UK Magnificent Maurice and the former WWWF Polish Prince crossed paths in Germany quite a bit, indeed I think Ed W got the idea off Shaun B.)

Saint gets in a few of his tricks but is mostly used as a kicking bag to get the bigger dirtier wrestler some heat.

It's a pity because German audiences very much got the point of Johnny Saint as you can tell from the Johnny chant and some other German JS bouts I've seen. Brody could be a much better wrestler than this too - check out his 1991 Eurosport match with Owen Hart.

How also NOT to use Johnny Saint.

On paper a Euro international dream matchup British Wrestling Vs Catch Francais on a German Catch show back in the day.

In practice and elderly pot bellied version of the guy from old Le Catch does a Sid Vicious style destruction job. Saint gets 30 seconds to do his Lady Of The Lake and a couple of other offensive moves (including a closed fist punch to the chin possibly, as Kent Walton would say, allowed for retaliation. Otherwise it's Rene destroying Saint.  No wonder Americans loved working this territory.

At least the big man with the slumped abs gets a DQ at the end which is some compensation for Saint.  Latasserre could have got down and exchanged counters with Saint and put on a real show instead of this extended 90s US TV squash match.