Modern lucha

[ohtani's jacket]

So, I was watching El Dandy vs. Black Warrior, 10/96 the other day, and it seemed to me that this was closer to modern lucha than the late 80s/early 90s stuff... Less "lucha" and more like a juniors match.

 

The impression I've gotten from modern lucha is that it's been shortened while at the same time upping the workrate. Can anybody pinpoint when this change began to happen? And of the newer guys who've been notable over the past decade -- Mr Niebla, Shocker, Ultimo Guerrero, Rey Bucanero, Perro Aguayo Jr., Mistico, El Averno & whoever I'm missing -- who would you say has been the best & why?

[Tim Evans]

We talking just CMLL here? Because AAA matches seem to have gotten longer now that the show is 3 hours long and only one fall. The shorter matches started a couple years ago. I wouldn't say the workrate has gone up, In fact I'd say it's gone down in CMLL. Especially in the upper cards. Mistico seems to always be injured and a lot of the top stars are getting older. The under cards are impressive with guys like Sombra, Valiente, Volador Jr., and others. CMLL's big problem is they got all the eggs in the Mistico basket. When he was out in late 2007, they were screwed. I mean the main event of the final big show of the year was Rey Bucanero(Who sucked as a tecnico) and Lizmark vs Shocker and Black Warrior. None of those guys are as big a draw as Mistico is.

 

As for the best out of those mentioned, I would say Mistico, Averno and Ultimo Guerrero. In my opinion, Mistico wouldn't be as good as he is without guys like Ultimo and Averno. They make him look like a million bucks. Niebla and Shocker have been hurt with Personal problems. Rey Bucanero finally turned back Rudo and is doing pretty good and Perro Jr.is alright but I think he was better in AAA.

[tomk]

And of the newer guys who've been notable over the past decade -- Mr Niebla, Shocker, Ultimo Guerrero, Rey Bucanero, Perro Aguayo Jr., Mistico, El Averno & whoever I'm missing -- who would you say has been the best & why?

I'm unclear here.

You mention the move to New Japan juniors ish style and don't know what you're looking for.

Are you looking for who works that style best or who still figures out how to work lucha within this context?

[ohtani's jacket]

And of the newer guys who've been notable over the past decade -- Mr Niebla, Shocker, Ultimo Guerrero, Rey Bucanero, Perro Aguayo Jr., Mistico, El Averno & whoever I'm missing -- who would you say has been the best & why?

I'm unclear here.

You mention the move to New Japan juniors ish style and don't know what you're looking for.

Are you looking for who works that style best or who still figures out how to work lucha within this context?

 

The latter.

 

Of course I could be wrong, but it seems like there's less playing to the crowd, less matwork and submissions. In CMLL anyway.

[tomk]

Cool.

Then question number 2 is :

 

The impression I've gotten from modern lucha is that it's been shortened while at the same time upping the workrate. Can anybody pinpoint when this change began to happen? And of the newer guys who've been notable over the past decade -- Mr Niebla, Shocker, Ultimo Guerrero, Rey Bucanero, Perro Aguayo Jr., Mistico, El Averno & whoever I'm missing -- who would you say has been the best & why?

When did you stop watching? Are you looking for reccomendations from 99 forward, 2000 forward, 2003 forward? When?

[ohtani's jacket]

I've mostly watched stuff from '89-92 & anything I can find from before then. Recently I've been interested in lucha from this decade, so 2000 onwards. I've seen Atlantis/Villano III, the Santo/Panther matches, the Negro Navarro stuff & some of the bigger CMLL matches from 2005-07.