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DVDVR 80s Project
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  1. No, he just sucked. Joe's natural body type is kind of chubby, while Harris simply got fat. He deserved to be buried and fired. Awful example. Awful. The answer is yes.
  2. It doesn’t matter whether WWE screwed Chris Harris or if Chris Harris screwed Chris Harris. The question was: “was anyone such a bust in the WWE that no one wanted to touch them afterward. “ Chris Harris was a guy who was such a bust in the WWE (it doesn’t matter why) that he became untouchable. Kazarian’s a weird guy in that he worked for TNA with an expired contract for at least a month, worked indies for a while, then was signed by WWE, not really a bust there just not a guy who did a lot, was released went back to working indies then got picked up by TNA again. He like Danielson and Sydal was a guy leaving a freelance gig for the WWE. Leaving a freelance gig is different from leaving a steady gig. We’ve all had a steady job or I hope at least know someone who has had a steady job. We know what goes into calculating leaving a steady job for a risky but potentially better job. We know what goes into calculating leaving a steady job for the super risky world of freelancing. Wrestling isn’t some magical candyland where there are no risks involved in leaving a steady paying gig. Again jdw: Bix says: I really have no idea what this paragraph means. I mean I'd rather see Kawada spending the first decade of this century working U-style than in Hustle, it's a shame that he became washed up in a comedy fed but I don't think he made the wrong choice by collecting a paycheck. Following Midwest indies from 200-2004, I'd say Austin Aries and Bam Neely/Magnus Maximus were the two most highly pimped potentially great workrate indy guys. Not sure what happened to Neely's rep post WWE. I don't think either of those sentences address what you're saying. But not sure what you're saying. Harris was a guy who Meltzer would complement for his poise. I know as far back as during his period in WCW he was a guy who was pimped on southern indy promotion boards as being full of potential. I remember arguing at the time that of your ex-Prentice guys getting WCW use that Stylin’Shane Eden was the horse to get behind…and pretty much Harris was everyone else’s consensus pick. I wrote regularly about Storm being far superior in TNA and that wasn’t anywhere near a meme. Harris got significantly better over time at TNA. I think he came off super solid when AMW turned heel. He is a guy who Jarret booked in singles opposite himself as early as I want to say 04/05 and ( I don’t want to get all Meltzerish “poise” and “polish”) but carried himself like he belonged in singles or multi-men matches with ex-WWE guys (Angle, Christian, Dustin, Booker, Jarret). Had the kind of fundamentals where he didn’t look out of place in those match-ups (in the way that Abyss or Kazarian can feel like overpushed enhancement talent in the same situations). I'd also point out that TNA is one of the shittiest poorest booked wrestling feds in history run by absolute idiots And (while I don't think Bix is doing this) people seem to believe that with Chris Harris TNA was able to do some sort of Paul Heyman meets Jimmy Grippo smoke and mirrors type creation. This is TNA they couldn't hide the negatives and accentuate the positives if they wanted to.
  3. tomk

    Bobby Fulton or Robert Gibson

    I'd give this to Gibson. Putting together the midsouth sets, I watched lots of Fulton working FIP sections and lots of Gibson working FIP sections and man alive could Fulton kill a match. Fulton is a guy who can actively detract from a a match while Gibson at worst just seems there.I'd also say what footage we have of the Gibson bros looks to smoke what we have from Jackie and Bobby Fulton (and I'm a pretty big George Hines fan).
  4. JDW said: DFA replied: Chris Harris is the obvious example of a guy who went bust in the WWE. As a result of that bust, TNA despite knowing what he was capable of wasn't interested in bringing him back. again jdw: You can make up alternative Chris Harris histories if you like. But he was a guy who told TNA he was interested in leaving and was given a whiner gimmick as his TNA contract ran out (I've never said anything positive about TNA booking but that is standard jobbing a leaving guy out booking) was signed to WWF where he was kept under contract for six months, only used three times, told he couldn't use his moveset (outside of perfectplex) , given ugly ring gear, no promotional packages, sent out cold for one match versus a manager (where memory of the sheet coverage was they hadn't come up with a ring name until time of show), not used again for three weeks, given an odd backstage skit (as I remember the sheet explanation at the time, there was a booking plan for where skit would lead later in show but then they decided to drop that booking but somehow forgot to drop skit), given another match a week later and then released. And then didn't get within spitting distance of a steady wrestling paycheck for four years. If you want to blame Chris Harris for his own failure, fine. Still he gave up a job to take a risky shot at the bigtime. That risk failed to payoff and bit him hard. That's the risk you take when giving up a semi secure steady job for a risky business venture, you may win or you may lose. At the end of Joe's ROH run, he made it very clear in interviews that if he didn't get a semi secure (nothing in wresting is actually secure) steady job/paycheck (as either part of wrestling school, regular Japan tour gig, or steady check from TNA or WWF) he was going to get out of the biz.
  5. A)He was set up to suck. B. Samoa Joe is fat. Fatter than Chris Harris. Would look even worse if wearing the type of black Moolah singlet that was put on Harris.
  6. You can't think of any examples where that happened? Wildcat Chris Harris was signed to WWE in 2008, was a guy like Joe who works a Choshu heavyweight sprint moveset style... the WWE told him he couldn't work that style and gave him a super ugly outfit and no promotion, He had maybe three matches with huge periods of time between appearances and he failed and was released. Failure on the WWE stage was such a complete bust that TNA had no interest in bringing him back for another 3 years. Even after 3 years, TNA still felt that they couldn't do much to wash the stench of the WWE bust off him, and released him quickly. This was at a time where Vince Russo was in charge of creative. The only thing Vince Russo understands how to write is whiny promos where wrestlers complain about misuse. Even Russo understood that WWE run that was that level of "complete bust" couldn't be dealt with that way.
  7. tomk

    Curt Hennig

    So I just made up "longest reigning" cause it sounded right and couldn't think of anyone else that seemed to hold it as long. But according to Wikipedia I'm right. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WWE_I...ental_Champions 280 days. For longest combined reigns in the 90s Razor Ramon beats him, and Michaels equals him. But straight up longest reign in 90s, it's Mr Perfect.
  8. tomk

    Curt Hennig

    So "mainstream fan" is a guy who started watching wrestling in about 1990 and has some vague awareness of historical figures and foreign (Japanese) wrestlers. A guy on the same site ( a mainstream movie viewer) has a list of top 50 movies of all time: http://www.ign.com/blogs/lionharte/2012/03...ies-of-all-time The movie list writer bunches 47) Seven Samurai and 48.Spirited Away while the wrestling list writer puts some filler inbetween 41) Muta and 46)Inoki. Movie list writer has Leon:The Proffesional at #5 while wrestling list writer has Andre Rousimoff at #13, But overall very similar lists in construction. IGn also did a readers poll where aggregate was used to determine readers top 20 wrestlers of all time, I think its safe to say that the readers poll results skew younger than the IGN writer: http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/11/13/rea...ers-of-all-time This list skews younger and I doubt Perfect made the top 25. Lists of mainstream casual wrestling fans skew toward stuff they saw or are nosatalgic for plus a vague awareness of historical figures. Pretty much that's what lists of mainstream casual movie fans will give you, casual tv fans, casual music fans, etc. People who casually watched Us wrestling at the beginning of the 90s are going to remember the longest reigning IC champion of the 90s. That should come as a surprise to no one.
  9. tomk

    Rick Rude

    I don't think this is that controversial of an opinion. No one is born fully formed. Rude debuts in 82 , stuff opposite Savage,Lawler is 84, stuff opposite Von Erich is 85, Rude and Fernandez is 86/87. Beefcake is a guy who debuted about 78 and the team with Valentine is 86. Rude isn't fully formed as a four year veteran let alone as a two year veteran but the degree to which he already is head and shoulders better than a seven year one working regularly on a bigger stage is apparent. Kris wrote a really nice memorial piece on Hector Garza. Hector Garza was one of the best wrestlers around from maybe 04-07, but as early as two years in understood how to carry himself and work like a star.
  10. tomk


    Before start looking at 2003, should point out that Phil Rippa did a bunch of Velocity reviews at CRZ board in 2004, Cubsfan did a best of Velocity write up in 2004 as well, and Phil Schneider did VEloceat/Heatlocity workrate reports on the DVDVR in 05. I probably disagree with all three of them but useful resources. When Velocity was being canceled to be replaced by ECW, me and phil did a series of velocity memorial match of the day posts: Velcoity memorial match 1 by Phil Velocity memorial match 2 by Phil: Match3 by Phil: Match 4 by me: #5 by Phil again Match #6 by Phil Match #7 Match #8 by me: Match #9 by Phil: Match 10 by me:
  11. No of course not, but Joe is a guy who was going to try to prove himself to whatever fed he was in. At the time Fatu was a guy who thought he needed to eat a ton of reckless chairshots to prove his value to company. 2005/6 period may have also been the point where not just Fatu, but bot Chavo and Harry Smith were at most roided (relatives of folks who died from steroid related heart problems who felt need to roid to prove their commitment to fed) . Joe was going to do what it takes to prove that he would go all the way for whatever fed hired him. What that would involve in the WWE, we have no way of knowing. But I'm not going to pretend like it would be a healthy, life promoting activity.
  12. tomk


    Awesome. Thanks. I'm going to try to concentrate more on heavyweight matches than the cruisers which I think are more obviously worth looking at. 2002--This looks like you mostly want to look at the cruiser matches from this year. Venis v Holly is interesting but I think Venis was better on Heat than Velocity for whatever reason. I liked the team of Palumbo/Gunn and my memory is that the series with Moore/Hurricane is worth looking at as is the Palumbo v Holly match that sets up the Palumbo/Gunn v Holly/Orton 2002 Christian vs Mark Henry and Matt Hardy v Palumbo are interesting on paper but no memory of either I also think 2002 was pretty much the year that Crash Holly was desperately looking for comedy spot, trying to strike Scotty 2 Hotty "Worm" gold, and so would workshop a new one everymonth or so which was entertaining in a "watch this guys desperation" way.
  13. I didn't see TNA rushing to sign Bam Neely, Brad Allen, or James Curtis. They were reluctant to bring back Braden Walker. Not from that one, but again is dying from acute toxicity better than a leg injury? We all saw HHH in a handicap match against Umaga and Carlito where Umaga ate huge numbers of reckless chairshots. Samoa Joe was a guy who would have been willing to prove himself by sacrificing his body no matter where he ended up. People who followed indy wrestling a generation earlier thought it was a shame when legit indy heavyweights (guys over 230 but shorter than Edge) Joey Abs and Mike Maverick/Jack Dupp had such mediocre careers considering the careers of their tiny contemporaries Joey Mathews and Shane Helms. But at this point there is no reason for anyone to be surprised. For a guy who is over 230 but under 6'2", Joe has carved himself a decent paying career.
  14. tomk

    Curt Hennig

    Who else worked like him? "This guy is really great at conveying a character, bumping all over the ring pretty and has one good looking piece of offense" covers lots of WWF heels. HBK has already been mentioned. Adonis certainly worked like that in WWF. Flair pretty much worked like that in the WWF. Harley Race worked like that in the WWF. First year or so of Savage is all flamboyant bumping a finesse elbow and scroll interference. Rude. When he didn't have the power of the cast, I'd say Orton worked that way in the WWF. I could see arguing that Terry Funk worked that way in the WWF 80s. The Genius Lanny Poffo worked like that. I'm not sure why anyone would think that Perfect working was somehow distinctive. Lots of guys had cool skits. Beefcake's pre-Dancing Bear stripper skit is amazing and haunted children's nightmares. Lots of guys bounced around the ring like a lunatic for Hogan. Lots of guys had more memorable matches as guy bouncing around ring for Hogan. Lots of guys were more successful as drawing opponents bouncing around the ring for Hogan. Measuring Perfect on a scale based on awesome skits and bouncing around for Hogan in a formula fed where lots of guys had awesome skits and bounced around for Hogan doesn't really do Perfect a ton of favors.
  15. Do enough people watch TNA for their to be an actual meaningful stench? If Samoa Joe and Manukea Mossman showed up tomorrow in Rugby Jerseys and Tiki Masks, and busted conch shells over Alberto del Rio and Sheamus's head.... is there a section of the audience who would bother taunting Joe with "TNA" chants?