Timbo Slice

Basically all good wrestlers connect with the fans. Hell, there are plenty of bad wrestlers who connect with the fans. I don't see that as a positive. If that falls into the charisma category, then so be it, but guys like Toru Yano connect well with the fans and he's a bad wrestler. Is it offense? Is it selling? Is it technique? Is it his ability to pace out a match? I mean, the way I see Tanahashi, is that he has overtly flashy offense to the point where it's style over substance, he mostly sells only when convenient, he tends to let that flashy offense take away from the technique of doing simpler moves and paces out a match a lot like some other supposed "ring generals" who should let the other guy pace a match. Kurt Angle paced the majority of his matches horribly unless a guy like Taker or Eddy or Austin brought him down a notch or 20. Tanahashi's similar in that his best matches have been because he's let the other guy take the lead and Tanahashi fills in the blanks for the most part. People who go crazy over the Minoru Suzuki match from last year and credit Tanahashi for the work must have missed the other big matches Tanahashi had where the other guy was the better part of the match. The only match I can think of where Tanahashi really made things his and the match was great was the Goto match from '07, but that was also Goto's best match ever, so your mileage will vary there. And before anyone brings up Okada again, Okada has been the best part of all five matches they've had, and as good as Okada has been, he's not a top-flight wrestler quite yet. He's pushed as one, obviously, but he still has his own faults to work on. If someone makes the Okada thread, be my guest and we'll go through them. Now, Cena haters would be quick to point out that Cena's had plenty of big matches where he was "carried." The big difference between Tanahashi and him is that when it comes to his opponent, Cena is much more adept to balancing things out to match up who he's working with. He'll brawl with Umaga, he'll build an epic with Punk, Shawn or Rocky and he'll get technical with Bryan. In fact, compare the Suzuki match with the Bryan match and you'll see that Cena actually tries to work things into the match that give it a different feel from your normal Bryan match, and makes Bryan's big moments that much more important. Cena understands how to work a big match better than anyone in the world right now. Tanahashi just happens to work a lot of big matches. I think we're really missing something key in all these points people are or aren't making: Tanahashi is easily accessible to people who want to watch puroresu. He's easy to get into and because he's got so much on tape, people can seek out his big matches and enjoy him because he wrestles a different style than basically every WWE guy they see on TV each week. The people arguing against him have roots in older Japan stuff or are fans of different styles completely and since Tanahashi's style hasn't really changed for a while, people have soured on him over time or prefer some of his contemporaries to him instead (Shibata and Nakamura, for example).

I'll say this about Tanahashi. I do like how he paces and lays out a match. The main reason he's so loved is because he can get people into stretch runs pretty consistently. He makes things exciting more often than not. He doesn't have the best offense but it's not the worst. I've seen guys with worse offense (Like Edge, as Eric pointed out). He's normally crisp with moves like his frog splash and his suplexes. But the dude is pretty ridiculously charismatic. And he's flashy. I guess that's why people like him. One thing that hurts Tanahashi is that unless he totally hands over the match to his opponent, his worst tendencies come through (spotty selling, trying to overcomplicate his spots, blowing off psychology to get to the finish). The reason why the Suzuki match worked so well was that they built the match around Suzuki's traditional spots and Suzuki changed things up to keep Tanahashi's stuff looking fresh. The Okada stuff can get stale because Tanahashi chooses between arm and leg work, which Okada always wants to shrug off to get his offense in. And then if Okada responds in kind, Tanahashi can blow that stuff off, too. Why I like Cena is that he understands what his opponent wants to do more and gives him a lot more to work with. I've seen him work so many different types of matches up top just because he was facing different guys, whereas rarely do you see Tanahashi work to his opponent's strengths. That's another issue with this comparison. When we think of an Ace, we think of someone who, by definition, can get a good match out of anyone because of their elasticity. Tanahashi doesn't have what Cena has in that regard at all.

2009 - 8,865 (Sasuke and Chono appearances, Ibushi/Harashima main) 2010 - 8,800 (Tajiri/Dick Togo, Marufuji/Omega, Dino vs. Hard Gay/Real Gay, Harashima/Sekimoto main) 2011 - 8,660 (Ibushi/Devitt, Sapp/Dino, Kudo/Shuji Ishikawa) 2012 - 10,124 (Fujinami appearance, Minoru Suzuki/Takagi, Makabe/Harashima vs. Ito/Ishikawa, Ibushi/Omega main) 2013 - 8,500 (No special appearances, a lot of 6-mans, Dino/Ibushi main) and 9,000 (Akebono, Kensuke and Nakajima appearances, Okada/Ibushi, Irie/Harashima main) Might as well call 2013 17,500 drawn.

They've normally claimed about 9k since they started running Sumo Hall, for what it's worth.

For the time they wrestled, Yokota was so far above her contemporaries that it was a lot like the best in other sports (Jordan, Bonds, Rice). They were just so much better than anyone else that they looked even greater than when compared to greats across time. My perfect analogy is the 8/22/85 show, AJW's best show of the 80s for some, and while many put the Nagayo/Devil match as the match of the night, Yokota took the greener Lioness Asuka and crafted a fucking masterpiece. Everything was smooth as silk, made sense...it was incredible stuff. So if Yokota is the best of her generation, and you go along the lines with Chigusa, Bull, Hokuto, Ozaki, Aja, Kansai (?), Toyota, and Meiko, do any of the other eight shine brighter than their contemporaries like Jaguar did? I can see a case for Chigusa, as she basically owned the later half of the 80s. Bull ruled for the majority of the early half of the 90s before giving way to Aja completely, who then gave way to Toyota. But around that time, you had Hokuto being the most unique wrestler of her era and putting on these incredibly emotional matches (many that stand the test of time today), Ozaki and Kansai as the best non-AJW wrestlers of that era, Toyota taking that go-go-go style to another level for better or worse...then Aja took over the scene again in many ways for GAEA, who then helped make Meiko that last great joshi wrestler. Hokuto's match with Meiko did so, as well. Just by going through that timeline, I think you have Yokota as the clear front runner, followed by Chigusa and Aja. Hokuto is the wild card for a peak that was possibly the best out of any of the non-Jaguar candidates. Bull's longevity helps her, Toyota's polarizing style is really a love/hate thing...it's a very good topic. I think while probably the Top 5 is going to be some combination of no doubt candidates, making a Top 10 or Top 15 could make for some very interesting lists.

Well, supposedly, a 30-man tryout at the WWE Dev Center occurred a few days ago and Edwards and Richards supposedly were the cream of that particular crop. At the very least, ROH can do short term contracts for remaining dates with the belts, work yet another "We're going to the big leagues" angle, and it'll be fine. That July show sounded interesting, though.

I like Sasaki for the most part. A lot of his big singles matches from 2000 on actually stand up really well, and I've lightened up on the Kobashi match over time. Still a part of perhaps the best NJPW heavyweight tag match ever. Has two of the best Dome main events ever vs. Tenryu and Kawada. Kobashi match is basically a co-main event, too. Totally underrated tag wrestler in my eyes. Now, on the grand scale, do I put him amongst the best in Japan? I saw him in like that 4th/5th/6th tier or so when people were talking about the tiers of great wrestlers. In fact, I prefer him to someone like Hase, who is a contemporary and doesn't have Sasaki's resume when it comes to big matches. Granted, Hase never got the push Sasaki did, but from my recollection, Hase seems to be liked a lot more than Sasaki, which stemmed more from people still being big fans of his with the Steiners tags, his limited AJPW work and the Hashimoto title match.

I think with the way Dave is pushing NJPW that Okada winning has a much bigger chance than Bryan because by the time voting begins, Bryan's storyline won't be finished to the point where people will be "satisfied." There's plenty of Okada matches that are highly-regarded and he ruled the roost as soon as he took the belt from Tanahashi so well that his ascension to the new Ace of the promotion will outweigh the Bryan stuff, which is A) Much better and Still highly criticized because Bryan isn't a golden god at this point. Punk/Lesnar should win match of the year but the Okada title win will probably win. I'm also partial to Regal/Ohno. Bryan will run away with Most Outstanding Wrestler, but Cesaro SHOULD win it, as (and Dylan will point it out quicker than I) the enormity of his great stuff really does show up better even than the high points that Bryan has (the gauntlet, six man tags, Cena match). Go back and watch Cesaro in 2013 and he absolutely rules in almost every singles match he's in. In the end, it comes down to Bryan having the best of the high end stuff, but it being more peaks and high valleys whereas Cesaro is between those two points and is more consistent. Brock should win best Box Office Draw. $5 million contract or not, that guy sells PPVs. Shouldn't be questioned at this point. Feud of the Year will be interesting because if this Bryan stuff keeps going forward and turns into something by say, Survivor Series, it's fresh enough in people's minds that it will win. Punk/Heyman should get some votes, and the purists will throw Okada/Tanahashi up there again. The Shield should win Tag Team of the year. Most Improved...wow. Okada was an easy choice last year. This year, it's hard for me to figure one out. Maybe Big E.? Bray? Does AJ Lee count? I'd like to hear other people's opinions. Best on Interviews is easy for me with Bray, but I'm willing to hear others. The Shield had some good ones, Punk had a few good ones but wasn't nearly as great as he was the last two years. Most Charismatic for me would actually be Bryan. I can't think of anyone who made a better connection with the fanbase than Bryan this year, even with Rocky's match with Cena. Best Technical Wrestler, I like Bryan here but Cesaro has a HUGE case here, too. Kevin Steen seems to be a great brawler, but holy shit, has nobody seen Lesnar this year? Kota will most likely win Best Flying Wrestler, but Adrian Neville has been pretty fantastic this year. Most Overrated will be Triple H. Again. However, I'm totally down to see if someone will vote for Tanahashi. Cesaro will be the Most Underrated. Shouldn't be close. I think WWE has won back Promotion of the Year. Much tighter stories, an influx of new talent, a renewed look at the youth through NXT...NJPW will give it a run, but I think WWE should take it back here. NXT is the best weekly TV show by a country mile. Haven't seen enough of the rookies. Paul Heyman should be the best non-wrestler again. Best TV announcer for me is JBL or Regal, although Cole hasn't outright sucked this year. NXT announcer Tony Dawson is pretty terrible. He's still my reason for me thinking about trying out for NXT at some point. SummerSlam is the show of the year. Everyone will go G-1 Climax Day 4, but as I've said before, SummerSlam smokes it. Worst Major Show is probably TNA Lockdown. That AJ/Big E vs. Natalya/Khali tag where they missed the finish was probably the worst match I saw this year. Best Move this year shouldn't be the Rainmaker, I'll tell you that. I think Neville's Red Arrow (Corkscrew SSP) is still the best highspot in wrestling today. Always hits it cleanly. Someone else will come up with the disgusting promotional tactic, but it will probably be Punk playing off Paul Bearer's death. I think Impact has regained the title for worst weekly TV show. Worst Feud is whatever The Bella Twins were doing this year for Total Divas. TNA for worst promotion is a shoe in. Who was booking NXT? Naylor? Got to give it to them. Although I can see Vince as the winner for the trickle down effect. Gedo and Jado do book NJPW well, too. Does Vince take the title from Dana this year for best promoter? I saw this as a down year for UFC. Daniel Bryan should win for Best Gimmick. Either him or Bray Wyatt. Aces & Eights should have it locked up for Worst Gimmick again. Didn't read too many great books this year on the wrestling kick, although I've heard good things about the Montreal book. Best DVD for this year probably goes to the Crockett DVD from Highspots. Or Will's ECW set.

Sasaki/Tenryu from 1/4/2000 is underrated as all hell and makes the case for the start of Sasaki's sustained run as a good singles wrestler. Plus, it's Tenryu main eventing the Dome. Also from that show, Hash/Iizuka vs. Ogawa/Murakami. One of the most heated matches in Dome history, and that's saying something. Completely different match than probably any other match you'll get on that list. EDIT: Interpromotional greatness, but Nagata/Iizuka vs. Kawada/Fuchi 12/14/00 is fantastic, as is Kawada/Sasaki 10/9/00, obviously. Akiyama/Tenzan in the G-1 Final from '03 is great, too. If we're going non-interpromtional, then the Nagata/Takayama 5/2/2003 Dome match works, too.

It's...um...interesting? I always like that Triple H is candid and wants the business to thrive, and agree with him on why things had to change, but still...it seems like a lot of it is all ideas and little execution in some ways.

There should be two different types of selling in matches like Brock/Punk and Bryan/Cena. Wrestling doesn't have a baseline of selling that must be hit. It just depends if the selling works in the style or not. The way Brock and Punk sold in their match was great. The way Bryan and Cena sold in their match was great. But they sold in two different ways because they were two different types of matches. That being said, Bryan winning the belt and then having Brock come out to be his first challenger would be insane and get him over killer. He could redo the Morishima No Holds Barred match at Extreme Rules.

Bryan talked about how in Japan people would get slapped to help pump them up and told Cena that he wanted to slap him but didn't feel he was worthy enough because he was an entertainer and not a wrestler. EDIT: What Dylan said.

KENTA was definitely in the building tonight, as was Eddy. That was Bryan as Misawa loading up the running elbow for the first time to knock out Hansen. The Rock was the last guy to beat Cena truly clean. Not sure that Punk beat him clean during his title run.

I think this killed the much lauded Day 4 of the G1, which, anyone will tell you, is the best show they had during the tourney. If you take the top three matches of that card and put them side by side with the three top SummerSlam matches, SummerSlam comes out way ahead.

They treated this PPV like it was the second biggest show of the year.

If WWE doesn't put Bryan over HHH and Orton, they really don't know shit. The two "non-WWE" guys that got the most heat tonight were Bryan and Punk, so if they aren't gonna realize what they have, they're digging their own grave. And I understand it's logical booking at its finest, but if this doesn't end with Daniel Bryan winning the belt in the main event of WrestleMania 30, it doesn't mean shit long term. SummerSlam is the second biggest show of the year, and if you're gonna have a redemption angle, it needs for him to go 60 in the Rumble and pull out the Name Redacted run to win the belt.

Saw that coming a mile away.

How can Dolph be that athletic and not have any good baby face offense outside of a dropkick? I'll never understand that.

Working WWE MOTY at this point. There was some fucking King's Road shit with the Eddy Guerrero callbacks, and it was at least really smart work. Brock is the best big match worker in the world at this point.

Okay, Brock doing the UFC shuffle prematch is fantastic.

Divas match was alright. I can't wait for some of the NXT divas to get up. They could really make it something to watch.

Great match. Christian is smarter than most about selling and callback spots, so I was expecting good things here. Don't know where Del Rio goes from here, though.

Nice match. Surprised as all hell that Cody went over. He is picking up some steam here.

Problem with that match is that unless you buy in to the match type, you just won't be into the match. And that match is about as limiting a stip as there is. Prematch show was alright. Ambrose was a folly for all of RVDs offense and didn't really get to do much outside of his stooging early on. Which was awesome.

Hope you saw the Cesaro/Bo Dallas match, Dylan. Absolutely fantastic carry job from Cesaro. One of the matches that justifies a #1 ranking.