Loss

Then, how do you think it should be decided? What other way is there to do it? It's not our fault if someone doesn't vote. Signing up implies that you're not just going to show up to get Hogan and Rocky through, and ignore the rest.

No. The same number of people need to vote on every bracket; otherwise, people can advance unfairly. Who's on vacation right now? Everyone is here. I plan on getting permissions set where only the people who sign up can vote in polls; otherwise, this is meaningless.

If you're impatient, you need to tell people who I know will whine because they can't vote to hurry up and sign up so they don't get left out. I hope we have at least 20 people voting.

But if Benoit and Jericho put them over, people will take them seriously. The most successful tag divisions in history (meaning the tag titles were able to be defended in main events) had stars showing interest in the belts. They need top guys to care about those titles, because if they don't, the viewers will see it as a tokenist thing, kinda like the women and the cruiserweights. I do think if they put Benoit and Jericho in the division as a tag team, they should stop wrestling singles.

It will always matter, but never as much as it once did. I credit two things happening to that: (1) The steroid trial of the mid 90s forcing Vince to push Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels as top guys and fans not wreaking havoc in the streets as a result (2) Rey Misterio Jr getting over so huge in WCW In Rey's case, he really broke down the door where smaller guys can now get hired, even if they're not pushed at the top level. He was laughed at by most in the locker room before his debut match at the '96 Great American Bash, but after they saw the match, no one was laughing anymore and knew he had the potential to be a star. And he is a star. I don't know that Bret and Shawn were so much influential in smaller guys getting into wrestling, because smaller guys have always gotten into wrestling, but I think they opened the doors for smaller guys to be pushed. Bret and Shawn have always looked credible against anyone they've faced. Benoit and Eddy did win titles, but I don't know that they ever would have won them if they weren't so jacked up. They're not WCW-sized anymore; Guerrero is short, but is freakishly huge. Yes, they got runs with the title, but neither is a top guy now, and I think the reason for that is because of the way guys like HHH and JBL have towered over them. So, yes, it will always matter, and it will always be easier for a big guy to get noticed than a small guy, but it is not the end-all, be-all. I think the cruisers are pushed because of key people pushing for specific guys, and I also think they have this hope in the back of their minds that they can create another Misterio, who's been a huge house show draw in Hispanic markets and a big merchandising success. And right now, business is down. Vince typically focuses more on big guys when his numbers take a nosedive. That's ironic, because when they put the belt on Bret at Survivor Series '95 since Diesel was killing business, house show business picked up literally immediately, and the first half of '96 was the biggest house show period in company history with Bret and Shawn as the top guys at the time, until they got to 2001 and shattered their own record, ironically enough running main events like Angle v Jericho and HHH/Benoit v Austin/Rock. I think it matters to the casual fan, but only to a certain point. They may see Spike Dudley as too small, but I don't think Jericho or Guerrero have anything to worry about, and they also are extremely charismatic, so they seem bigger than they really are.

MNM. They need at least one pair of established singles wrestlers they're not doing anything with (Benoit & Jericho??) in the division to give it credibility.

I agree that Kevin Nash coming in as a color guy would be the only way I could really tolerate him being in the company at all. I'd be worried that he'd bury guys, though -- Konnan was funny in 2000 as well, but he took the opportunity to throw shoot comments at everyone he didn't like. I think Nash would do the same. Nothing beats Juvi's run in late 1999 as a color guy, though. "I see they found a new gimmick for the worst wrestler in the company." -- Juvi, on Prince Iaukea debuting the "Prince" gimmick Tenay: "Lex Luger is an amazing physical specimen." Juvi: "Big deal! I could look like that in two weeks." Tenay: "Two weeks?" Juvi: "The juice is on the juice! The juice is on the juice!" Juvi: "Never cheer Vampiro or you will die. He stole my finisher. It's called a Juvi Driver, jackass!"

It's not. I was just trying to establish some kind of objective way to look at this, even if it won't totally be that way, just so if Eddy Guerrero and Hulk Hogan end up in the same bracket, people aren't confused by how they're supposed to vote.

From the 11/04/96 Nitro ... Chris Benoit v Jeff Jarrett There's an interesting storyline going on here, as Benoit is on the outs with the Horsemen for spending all of his time with Woman. Meanwhile, Jeff Jarrett wants to be a Horseman and take Ric Flair's place while he's injured, but the rest of the group will have none of it. So, this is like a battle between the warring red-headed stepchildren of Ric Flair and Arn Anderson. With the US title tournament just around the corner, they're both trying to carry Flair's torch while he's out, and they're both fighting over the title he last held until he was sidelined. The match starts out with some really awesome mat work. Jarrett tries an armbar and blocks every counter Benoit attempts, before Benoit finally reverses it, and Jarrett breaks. So, then we see Benoit go for a headlock, which Jarrett quickly counters into a headscissors, which sees Benoit try again, which sees Jarrett try again, which prompts a shoving match. That entire sequence is incredibly fast and spirited. Benoit challenges a test of strength and Jarrett accepts, and they each counter the other before they start kicking each other to break the momentum. Benoit wins that little war and sends Jarrett to the turnbuckle, but Jarrett moves out of the way and *steps on* Benoit to get back to the center of the ring and look him dead in the eye. No one does that to Benoit without suffering for it, as a full-fledged dogfight breaks out and they roll around on the mat exchanging some rather stiff-looking punches. The dust settles after a commercial break and Jarrett is in control when Sting, who Jarrett had been openly criticizing for not standing up for WCW, comes out of the crowd and DDTs Jeff before walking out, prompting a DQ. The finish is a huge letdown, considering that they were building this match so nicely. To put it in perspective, they did all of that in about six minutes. With even 12 minutes of time allowed, at the rate this match was going, it probably would have hit **** and not looked back. As it stands, it's a promise instead of a fulfillment, and that's really unfortunate, because it deserved to be more. I'll be watching their Starrcade match soon to see if they worked it in the same style, because if they did, it's going to be great. Who knew Memphis and Stampede were a marriage made in heaven? Jeff Jarrett is an enigma to me, because he's a very good worker, and I've even seen him be great at times, but for whatever reason, he's never found his opponent that he could work with on top in show-stealing matches on a regular basis. Benoit could have been that guy, and maybe he would have been in 2000 had he not jumped to the WWF. Rey Misterio Jr v Ciclope This is a really swank collection of some daredevil spots, but it's not much else. They provided a nice aura here, as Ultimo Dragon is at ringside watching. Dean Malenko is at the entrance looking on, and Psicosis is looking over his shoulder, giving an unspoken warning that they'll have their day at the upcoming PPV. Ciclope looks like he has the potential to be great here, but can't quite fulfill it. He does some really terrific highspots, and his working style is a nice contrast to Rey's working style, but he seems unsure of himself between moves. There's a really good stretch of him controlling the match, but Rey's comebacks are far more fun. If you're looking for tons of highspots, you won't be disappointed with this outing, and they do try to create a match, but it never all quite comes together like it should.

I think it's been long enough to seem nostalgic now. The Hardyz were so overexposed at one point that there was a backlash starting against them, but now, people are more likely to remember the good. One thing I'm anxious to hear about in Matt's shoot is his side of the whole story in late 2001/early 2002 where they were sent home for their match at Vengeance.

Without having watched the match since the first DVD came out, my gut tells me that I side with goodhelmet here. However, both his review and alkeiper's response were superb, and I'd be doing the discussion a disservice if I didn't rewatch the match to have a complete grasp on it. Tonight.

I guess we didn't. While we can't really force it, my suggestion would be to voted based on work whenever possible, but if there's a case when you'd genuinely rather vote for the other guy, then you shouldn't hesitate to do so.

Disagreed at first, agreed after thinking about it. Edited my post.

That said, we'll add them to the qualifying matches. Adrian Adonis v Bad News Brown Don Muraco v Greg Valentine Honky Tonk Man v Jerry Lawler

El Hijo del Santo v Negro Casas - WWA 07/18/87 - Mask v Hair Take my thoughts on this with a total grain of salt, as prior to this match, the only lucha I've seen is the following: *the 16-man Cibernetico from 04/97 *a Rey/Juvi match from '93 *Rey/Calo/Winners v Heavy Metal/Picudo/Psicosis from AAA 02/93 *Some Rey/Psicosis match from '95 *Atlantis/Villano III from 03/17/00 Granted, I did love all of those matches, and this one gets added to the "loved it" pile as well, so I guess I'm on an unbreakable streak with the lucha libre. I love Santo's vigilante introduction; he seems like he just happened to stop by the arena, saw there was a show going on and thought he would take off his cape and wrestle for a while. That rocks! Casas is a miserable bastard, but I mean that in the best way possible. The crowd pops when they do so much as blink! One thing I noticed here was the sheer number of parallels between the two, but the parallels are achieved through some type of paradox, ironically enough -- Casas uses a lot of the same tactics that Santo uses, but somehow, and I have no fucking clue how they pull this off, when Santo does it, it's great face work and when Casas does it, it's great heel work. Case in point, the first fall is a quick shove-it-up-your-ass from Casas; he wins every game of oneupmanship put out there and the end result comes far quicker and easier than I (and probably he) would have expected. It does give Casas the confidence he needs to get the ball rolling in the second fall though, coming at Santo with guns a-blazin'! Casas has the best, most passionate dropkicks of all time in this match -- he doesn't just stand up and then jump to the air, he comes flying at an angle and catches you totally off guard, even if you do see it coming. Anyway, back to the point about the awesome contradiction and the way cool double standard at work here: Santo quickly regains control of the match after a very spirited comeback and locks on a surfboard for the submission. So, now they're even. They've both proven that they can totally outclass each other, and now we get the icing on the cake with Santo coming after him just as aggressively and quickly as Casas did in the second fall. Casas will have none of it, though, and regains control. I don't think I've ever quite seen someone be a total dickwad in this fashion -- Casas isn't an ass because he's doing anything particularly mean, but rather he's a heel because he's making his asskicking look so effortless. He's cocky without being arrogant. That doesn't last for long, as he does start going for Santo's mask with all his might, until the referee places a wrestling hold on him, which is too cool for words. Santo keeps teasing comebacks, and Casas keeps cutting him off with those great suckerpunches. Eventually, will overcomes Negro's fist, and we get a series of great nearfalls, with Casas even breaking out the Space Flying Tiger Drop, followed by a tope suicida! He outsmarts and outwrestles the hero, before getting ahead of himself, going to the top rope and totally losing his balance. Santo is quick to take advantage of the situation and tries to lock on a camel clutch, but Casas completely goes limp. Nice, subtle, effective counter. The parallel/paradox theme finally comes full circle, as earlier in the match, Casas caught Santo off the ropes with a great kneelift when he had his head ducked, and when Casas is in the same position this time, Santo kicks him squarely in the face. We then get an electric chair off the top rope before Santo gets the submission win. Like George Clooney in From Dusk Till Dawn, Casas is an asshole, but not a fucking asshole, as he takes his head shaving like a man and even shakes his opponent's hand. If all lucha is like this, I need to jump on the bandwagon yesterday! I was going to watch some other stuff tonight, but I'm not sure I can now, because I'm going to hate it all. Comparing this to all the other wrestling I've ever seen, this is *****.

Because if you don't, you can't. BWAHAHAHAHA! You got until Friday (04/29). The reason I'm doing this is so the votes are fair. We don't want 86 members jumping in on one particular vote and not caring about the rest. It's the polling equivalent to Evolution doing a run-in to save HHH's title, and I'm BARRING THEM FROM RINGSIDE~!

Thoughts on all the missing wrestlers: Taijiri isn't a must, but I'm not sold on Snuka replacing him. I'd be fine with replacing him with Marc Mero though. We'll do a qualifying match on that. Brian Pillman was SHIT in the WWF. We'll do a qualifying match with Val Venis and Al Snow. Mike Rotunda should be included (he had a run in the mid 80s as a tag champ and also had a second run as IRS). Who should be his qualifying opponent? How about Savio Vega? Sgt. Slaughter held the World title. Every other world champion from this era is here with Sid now being included. Terry Funk is the most glaring omission to me. He has a stronger case than JYD. Had a big run against Hogan in 85/86 and came back for another memorable run with Foley in '98. How about this for qualifying matches? Marc Mero v Yoshihiro Taijiri Val Venis v Al Snow IRS/Mike Rotunda v Savio Vega Terry Funk v Rikishi Brainbusters v Killer Bees Turf Jacques Rougeau for Sid. Sound good?

Please, so it'll be easier, if you're making suggestions, please type them like this so I can make the qualifying matches easier. In: Wrestler X Out: Wrestler Y Thanks. Dynamite Kid had loads of great matches with the British Bulldogs. They're the most famous WWF team of the 80s, with possibly only Demolition getting higher. I'm going to fight you on that one. Sid deserves inclusion though. Every other person to hold the World title since 1985 (except Vince McMahon) is somewhere on this list. So, who gets turfed to make room for Sid? What did Jimmy Snuka do after 1985? He peaked in the late 70s/early 80s. Brainbusters made a definite impact, actually, winning the tag titles and having the feud of the year with the Rockers. They deserve to be here. As for JYD, US Express, Taijiri, Brainbusters, etc -- Please make a suggestion for who to turf if you're pleading the case for someone to get included. Please make a suggestion for who to include if you want someone turfed. Refer to the format above. Thanks.