Apr 23, 2005, 04:07 PM
Torch Talk with Kevin Nash, pt. 3
Originally Published: April 23, 2005
Torch Newsletter #858
Kevin Nash, one of the biggest names of the Monday Night War era whose jump with Scott Hall from the WWF to WCW helped shift the balance of power in the wrestling industry, is now a headliner with TNA. In this, the third installment of a six-hour "Torch Talk" conducted on March 24, Nash finishes talking about his first stint in WCW, how he lied to get out of his guaranteed contract to jump to the WWF, why he jumped to the WWF, and how he hit it off right away with Shawn Michaels. As this "Torch Talk" progresses, he marches through in great detail his entire career including the forming of The Clique in the WWF, his jump to WCW, the success of the NWO, the downfall of WCW, his role in that downfall, the drug culture that permeated WCW during its peak years, his ill-fated return to WWE, his philosophy on pro wrestling, his thoughts on the Bret Hart Survivor Series Swerve, and much more.
Wade Keller: When you first started getting attention as Vinnie Vegas, did you start feeling a little more comfortable in the ring at that point, or was your confidence shot that you were going to be a big jobber forever?
Nash: I actually had a decent match on a PPV with (Van) Hammer. Do you remember that? I had a decent match and the thing was we were going around on the B-towns. The A-towns were doing their thing, and at the B-towns it was the Hollywood Blondes, Pillman & Austin, versus Shane (Douglas) and (Rick) Steamboat. Me vs. Hammer was semi-main. So we're doing like 20, 25 minutes a night. There were only six matches on the card, so we really had to put time in. People can say what they want to about Mark (Hammer), but we actually worked a decent match. We were able to go 20 minutes and actually get some false finishes and actually have the people's attention. I was travelling with Austin and Brian and (Bill) Dundee. We were driving up and down the road together. Austin always had incredible insight. Brian had incredible insight. But Dundee was one of those few Memphis guys who actually would share the f---in' knowledge. A guy like (Jerry) Lawler would say, "You gotta learn on your own, kid." Okay, f-- it, I'm gonna be stiffin' you, mother f---er." Dundee shared the knowledge. I remember, and I want to say this because I want it to be in print somewhere, when I first broke in, my first match was working against Tim Horton and Mike Rotunda. I went out, me and my first partner, Cory Pindarvis, that was before Al Greene. The guy lasted a f---in' week as my Master Blaster partner. I remember Rotunda, my partner was stiffin' the f-- out of him and hurting him. We had this laid out match that we did at the Clash of the Champions. We went over it a hundred times with Brad and Tim at the camp. So we get to Canton, Ohio, and it's Tim and Rotunda and we've got nothing laid out, and this is back in the day when the locker rooms are opposite sides of the building and you've got to send the referee back and forth (to communicate the match finish). Just bullsh--. Come on. "Brother, it's a work, but we're not going to smarten each other up on it." So the referee is running back and forth and they're f---ing with us because we're getting a push and they're pissed because they're putting us over, so they're not smartening us up. So all we get is the finish. We have no spots or nothing. I get out there and it's, "Oh, f--, man!" So I locked up with f--in' Mike and Mike says, "Can you f---in' listen?" I said, "I think so." He said (really quickly and quietly): "Tackle dropdown." I said (really loudly and deliberately sounding like the Cookie Monster), "I tackle YOU? Who tackles WHO!" He said, "Shut the f--- up!" Then I realized I am a f---ing green horn. Every night Mike would put a spot together with me and the spots would grow night after night. We would have two spots, then three spots, then four spots. By the fifth night in Hammond, me and him had a nice little exchange back and forth that Mike taught me. The last night Mike said, "Slam me, drop an elbow." I dropped this sh--y f---n' elbow that about cut him in half. He went, "F--- that. Meet me at Centre Stage on Tuesday." He met me there at 11 o'clock and I swear to God, Mike Rotunda let me drop 200 elbows on him. You don't forget that sh-- in your life. That's a guy who if his wife called me tomorrow and said Mike needs a kidney and our blood matches, wherever he needed it, boy, I'd be there. There are a few of those guys.
When Lex (Luger) was making huge money and nobody else was making money, Lex always picked up the tabs at dinner. You never forget that. Lex always picked up the tabs. Two hundred bucks at Morton's. "I got it guys, I got it." Now when he needs a hand and needs a friend, nobody's there for him. That's the sh-- that's f---ed up.
Kevin Nash (photo by Jerry Wilson, PWTorch)
Keller: Had you befriended Dallas Page by this point?
Nash: Dallas's opening day was the Oz gimmick. They had a problem with the mic and he said, "Aww, f--- this" on TV when Diamond Studd was just Scott Hall.
Keller: You had a number of people around you that you were learning from. Was there a feeling also that there were a lot of people around who saw it as anything that you learned could hurt them?
Nash: I knew when I came in the door that it was one of those deals where there were people thinking there's this good looking guy with a good body and he's bigger than I am, so f--- smartening him up. Back then, when you came to WCW, it was nepotism. Dusty (Rhodes) was booking and he had his Florida crew there.
Keller: Were you studying not just how to be a better wrestler, but also the booking aspects of the business? Was that something that fascinated you and caught your interest early on or did that come later?
Nash: I would always watch a show and think, that finish was okay, but if you would have done this it would have been better. Early on I was a pretty good finish guy. But I think that's because Jody Hamilton said you can go 60 minutes and have the best match in the world, but you f--- the finish up and the match will be the sh--s. He said you could have a 60 minute stinker, but if the last three minutes have great false finishes and a great finish, all the people will remember is the false finishes and the finish and say you had a great match. I just think God blessed me with Jody Hamilton. Jody Hamilton, if you look back at it, if you watch tapes of him working (as The Assassin), here was a guy who was really basically able to give you facials with a mask on. He would juice through the mask. If you can find some old tapes of those guys, especially with the Kentuckians, I've got a black and white of those guys from Camp Belton, Kentucky or someplace like that, it's like a high school gym, and you can see the pain underneath the mask of this guy and you can see his face underneath the mask. He was a special, special cat. I was blessed that was the guy who broke me into the business.
Keller: If you could choose just one moment that was going to be captured on the Best of Kevin Nash DVD from that era, what would it be? In the ring or out of the ring.
Nash: Honestly, if I had to have a moment, it's when they handed me that f---in' Oz costume. I picked up that dunce cap with the rubber mask on it and I said to myself, "Wow, they're really trying to f--- me." That was just one of those deals. Hulk (Hogan) couldn't get over in this gimmick. It was a case of someone going: The big tough guy wants to get in the business? F---in' survive this.
Keller: The scary part is it wasn't meant to sabotage you because of all the money they put into it. If they wanted to sabotage you, they wouldn't have spent as much money on the entrance set.
Nash: That's what I mean. There must have been a lot of good mushrooms being passed around at that time. I don't know. I looked at it and I knew the minute they looked at the costume.
Keller: How did the process work that you ended up with the WWF?
Nash: It's a great story. The Steiners had just come up there in '93. The first TV that the Steiners went to was Green Bay where Kevin Kelly said that Vince McMahon grabbed him and there was a whole f---in' deal he was choking Vince out. This is the Steiners' first TV up there. I'm Robbie's (Rick Steiner) godfather for his first son, Hudson. Robbie calls me and said, "F---, you wouldn't believe how crazy this place it!" He lays out the whole f---n' deal. He added, "By the way, I talked to Shawn Michaels. He digs your Vinnie Vegas gimmick. He thinks it's funny. He'd like you to come in and be a bodyguard. So at that point I was driving a lot with (Barry) Windham to and from towns. There was a show at Fort Lindalwood at the Army Base and nobody showed up and we got there early. Me and Barry drove from Atlanta. It was an all-day drive and Barry and I drinking like Crown Royals and beers and sh--. We got there and thought we shouldn't be drinking, but he's on top so I'm going to drink. He was office, too, at the time. We get there and there's nobody there but me and Barry, so me and Barry have to open the show. Barry says to me, "Can you listen?" I said, "Talk slow." We went out there and had a really good match. Barry was the first guy who got out there and kind of worked my pace. Instead of talking sh--, he asked how's my wind, can you do this, do you know what I'm calling? Windham was so talented. Remember how he used to enter the ring from the floor where he'd pounce like a panther through the ropes? It was like one solid movement - bam, he was in the ring. He was a six-foot-six, 275 pound guy. He was as good as anybody's ever been. If you were going to do an outline form of Big Guys Category, he and Scott Hall are in that top list. I had been almost in the business for three years at this point. I learned the "work" part of it and I just sat there one day. We'd always drink and have a good time.
We were going to Dalton, Georgia for TV and I didn't say anything the whole way. New York (the WWF) at that time was The Show. It was like playing for the Yankees. I said I had to get out of my contract, but I have to do it without them knowing I want to go to New York. So I didn't say anything the whole way up. He asked me, "What's wrong." I said, "Nothing." He said, "What's wrong." I said, "Nothing." We got about 200 miles into the trip and I said, "My wife's gonna leave me if I don't get out of the business." He said, "F---, you gotta get out of the business, man." He knew Ole (Anderson), who was booking (WCW) then. I asked if he thought Ole would let me out of my contract. He said, "We'll do it on Monday." So Ole, of course, was glad to do it. At that point I was Vinnie Vegas. He was eager to get rid of this mother f---er who was making 125 grand a year and ain't doin' sh--. Hell yeah, he was ready to get rid of me. He couldn't sign my notice fast enough. He signed it and I went in the back office and made a couple copies of it. I went to my house and faxed it to J.J. (Dillon, head of talent relations in the WWF at the time). J.J. said, "We'll send you a ticket. You're coming to Albany, N.Y." My first match was Albany, N.Y., I think June 6. I f---ed over Marty (Jannetty) that night in a non-title match and then I f---ed him at Raw at the Manhattan Center and Shawn got the belt. I said to myself, I've been in this company two days and I've meant more than I have in three years in the business elsewhere.
Keller: Even though Shawn didn't know you, he just had seen you, after the first time you two were on TV together, it was clear there was a chemistry there.
Nash: Oh, yeah, absolutely. We bonded. Number one, I thought he was like 5-9. I walked into the locker room and turned around and said, "Hey, Shawn, I'm Kevin Nash." He turned around and stood up and was like six-one-a-half and he went (deep voice), "Hey!" I'm like, what the f---, that voice didn't just come out of you. You gottabme sh--in' me. And we drove that night and I guess it's one of those deals where he had watched my sh-- and I watched his sh-- and we drove back from Albany to Stamford and it was, like, I was a fan of his stuff and he actually liked my Vinnie Vegas stuff. He put my stuff over and we became friends. It was an instant chemistry between us. And the thing was, Shawn ain't stupid. He knows who's going to mesh with him. He's not going to pull just anybody in. They (WCW) were pissed when I showed up on Raw.
Keller: You lied to get out of your deal, so of course they're upset.
Nash: I think at the same time it was one of those deals where it's (singing) "Cat in the Cradle where my son grew up just like me." I remember one time, I think Dusty was the booker. He told me you can't get over. I said we have a match with (Rick) Steamboat tonight. Me and Big Sky against Steamboat and Shane Douglas. I looked at him and said, "How about I hit Steamboat with my finish about 30 seconds in and we win the tag belts. You think I'd get over then, mother f---er?" He looked at me like, "Okay, he's f---in' smart and he knows how it works. He realizes it ain't nothing but a push." F--- you, man! You don't think I know? I know, mother f---er. I've just been taking my money. There wasn't a guy in his first three years in the business who made more money. I probably made 350, 400 thousand dollars and probably worked 29 shows. I just never worked. I made 125 grand when I was doing Oz and I worked about nine times that year.
Keller: When you signed with the WWF, you signed for actually less than your WCW guarantee, obviously.
Nash: Back then when you signed with the WWF, the deal was you were guaranteed ten shows at 150 dollars a show. You were guaranteed fifteen hundred dollars. That was your guarantee with New York. I remember I went to Vince (McMahon)'s house straight off the airplane before I went to Albany. Marco the limo driver drove me to Vince's house. I knocked on the door. Vince came out with an IcoPro cut-off grey sweat shirt on and f---in' black sweat pants and to me, I'm looking at Steinbrenner. Say what you will about Vince McMahon - I love the mother f---er. He's a man's man. He shook my hand, looked me in the eye, and said, "Come on in! This is J.J., this is Pat (Patterson) and you probably heard he's gay. He is." He just laid the sh-- out in black and white. This is what we expect out of you. I walked into the door and he said, "You're a lot bigger than I thought you'd be. That's a good thing. You're a good looking guy. We can make some money with you." He said, "Get back into the car, get to Albany, we got sh-- laid out, and we're going to make you a f---in' star." I called my wife when I got to Albany that night. This was back in the day when it was pagers. I called my wife on the pay phone at the building and said, "I met Vince McMahon tonight." She said, "Really, how was he?" I said, "He was nice as f--- to me. He told me I'm going to get over." And he did. I don't care what anybody says. If it wasn't for Vince McMahon, I wouldn't be sitting out looking at the ocean right now when I'm talking to you.
Keller: What did you make your first year in the WWF?
Nash: Probably around two-ish.
Keller: Minus road expenses, which WCW covered, right?
Nash: I really don't know. My wife was a school teacher at the time. We were just living modestly. I bet my net for the year was probably 30. I met up with Scott and Shawn and we triple-heeled every night. We'd rock, paper, scissors for the rollaway. We would stay at Super 8s. We were probably spending 40 three-ways on a room and 59 on a Lincoln back then three ways. We were eatin' tuna and Denny's. Me and (Steve) Austin travelled together in WCW. I learned from him. Austin and I, it was an ongoing rib where we'd go into a town and all the top guys, Arn and the Horsemen and stuff, they'd have these Marriot towels. Me and Austin had what looked like a paper towel from a gas station. They'd ask where we were stayin'. Roger's Christmas Tree Inn. We got 19.40 for the rate. F---, we didn't give a sh--. What are you going to do? You're just stayin' the night there.
Keller: Austin learned that because he starved his first few years in the business in Memphis and Texas.
Nash: Right, and you know what, to this day, Steve is the same guy. When me and Steve were doing the "Longest Yard" (movie last year), we have a hundred dollar per day per diem, and we never spent above that hundred bucks. We went and had sushi that night after we shot all day, it'd be like, "What's that gonna cost us?" They'd say 137. "All right, that'll work." I mean, that's the thing about Steve. The reason that character worked so well as an everyman character is because that's f---in' Steve. I talk to Steve at least once, if not twice a week. Anytime that the world gets me kind of off kilter, I think we call each other for reality checks. He just wants to hear from his buddy. He knows I'm sitting here spending 30 bucks a day. He knows I hoard my money like he does. I don't spend money. There's no reason to spend money. I'm still driving a 1993 Bronco that I bought with my '93 SummerSlam check. I mean, that's just me. I don't give a f---. I'm not out for anything in life. If I get out of a car and you judge me by what I drive or what I wear, I don't want to be your friend anyway. I'm a real simple guy. I'm a cut off sweat pants, tank top, sweat pants guy.
