gordi

Damn it, Cox, I was all prepared to go off ranting on you personally, then you had to spoil it by presenting reasonable and well-written counterpoint to my argument. Danielson does throw his body around with abandon at times in many of his matches, but I would argue that the style he wrestles -- being mainly chain-wrestling-intensive, mat-work-heavy, and character-based with only a small number of relatively dangerous big spots mixed in -- is less damaging overall than the largely chairs-and-tables-based ECW style. I'd also argue that what's most damaging to the wrestlers' bodies and to their emotional well-being is the neverending WWE schedule and the culture of drug abuse that it engenders. I think that Danielson's eye injury was the result of one unlucky strike received while wrestling with a much larger opponent who has a very stiff style. I wouldn't say it's indicative of the risks of US Indy style in general, or of Danielson's style in particular. Also, as I wrote above, Danielson is indeed one of the few who is making a very comfortable living by wrestling a limited schedule in a variety of promotions, including ROH, NOAH, and various US, Canadian, and European Indies. He drives a very nice brand new truck, dresses well, and is hardly starving himself and living in the back of a Buick to pursue his craft.

I know for a fact that Danielson makes a very comfortable living doing what he's doing. I also know that he's happy with the path he's chosen. I also think that he is more likely than most to get out of wrestling before he's too broken down to recover. He has other interests in life, and I think that what really sinks so many pro wrestlers is that their lives are empty outside of what you so astutley refer to as "The Business." Setting his own schedule means that he can take time off when he needs to. He regularly takes breaks from wrestling to go traveling, for example. You seem to think that he'd be better off in terms of his health and well-being if he was working for McMahon... given all of the death and scandal that's plagued WWE recently, that seems beyond absurd. Keep on hating, though. Maybe some day you'll get good at it.

He has pro wrestling in perspective. Working indies gives him the freedom to set his own schedule, and to have a life outside of his profession.

This is more or less the truth: Sayama was sent to Mexico at the start of his career, after graduating from the New japan dojo, because of his size. He was taught the Mexican high-flying style, and brought that back to Japan. I'd guess that some sub-literate mouth breather read that somewhere, and got it all twisted around in his tiny malfunctioning half-empty head. That's likely where the talking point came from.

Oh man, Steamboat got some serious air on the high cross body... It shouldn't be hard to book matches like this, where new chapters of a handful of different feuds are played out at once. It means so much more than just throwing out four random good guys against four random bad guys.

It used to be a real treat to get a complete match between two feuding wrestlers or teams as your TV main event. A lot of shows used the "... time is running out, we have to go!" tactic to try and get people to buy tickets to see how the match will end. It's one of the things that was great about Bill Watts' shows: They'd deliver on the match that they'd promised. I love the hoisted on their own petard ending. It's a fine thing to have honest, athletic, hard-working good guys fighting mean, cheating bad guys and to have that dynamic be the most important thing in the match.

We may not have the same taste in announcers, DW, but we do agree about a lot of wrestlers... Funk included. This angle points out one of Funks great strengths: It leaves me wanting to see a match between Funk and Sting, and a tag with Flair and Sting vs. Funk and a partner (Muta you say? Sure! I'll watch that!)... Funk and Piper were the absolute masters of cutting promos and setting up angles that made you want to see the ensuing matches. With Funk, there's the added bonus that the match itself will almost always be very good or better.

I actually thought that the lead guitarist from the Bad Street Band had a better shirt. I can hardly wait for the day that yellow tiger-striped print extra-short-sleeved shirts come back in fashion. ... and this match was a beauty. Good guys doin good guy things, bad guys doing bad guy things, and the crowd loving Ace and Gary and hating the ugly old rednecks... those were the days. Unlike Dylan (whose taste in wrestling announcers is pretty much the exact opposite of my own) I found that David C excitedly pointing out again and again that "anything goes" was the only negative part of the experience of watching this match. If "anything goes" then why does Slaughter keep going back to his corner when the ref tells him to? Small complaint, though... and I've got years of experience just gritting my teeth and ignoring brother David's stupidity. Yet another match on the DVD that reminds me why I'll probably never be able to just walk away from my pro wrestling fandom.

I love World of Sport as a change of pace... Ken Walton's understated and classy announcing style and the gentlemanly dynamic of the rounds system both add something that you really don't get anywhere else. I can remember being really excited to see British Pro Wrestling when I went to visit my cousins in Scotland in the 1980s, and I was thrilled when one of my wrestling friends gave me a DVD a couple of years ago that had two old WOS shows featuring Dynamite Kid matches. He and Rocco had great ring chemistry, and Dyno is always a joy to watch when he's in there with someone who can take what he dishes out and hand him some right back...

A perfect example of how great it can get when the booker gets their audience, and plays to their emotions, and builds things slowly and pays them off properly. I think it's one of those matches that works much, much, better in context... but the crowd reactions, the honest emotion, obviously comes across very strongly no matter how much you know about what's going on around this match.

So, I was dying to get my hands on this DVD... then it arrived... then the f'n Benoit Family Tragedy hit and wrestling just stopped being fun... So, then... this past weekend Bryan Danielson fought Adam Pearce as part of the NWA title tournament. It was in North Vancouver, and my friend Verne was involved with booking the show, and so I took a group of people from the camp I run to see Danielson... ...and Pearce is a great funny heel, and they brawled into the crowd right through where we were sitting... and we went for pizza with the wrestlers afterwards... ... and I remember now why I am a wrestling fan... so I was able to give a couple of matches from this DVD a shot. I also watched Danielson vs. Aries '05 and Misawa vs. Kobashi '03 with some camp friends... and enjoyed that a lot... This match of course brought up thoughts of the Owen Tribute Match, which left me feeling very wistful... but it didn't hurt, at least... ...and this match is definitely WWF style wrestling done extremely well, not just following the same old formula, and with a clear underdog storyline (I like DW's analysis of how it was, in a way, underdog vs. underdog), and the good sportsmanship re-start did the trick for me, I got into this and just enjoyed it. Count me among those who sincerely wish that WWE were still capable of putting on matches like this.

Count me among those who couldn't be happier about this.

Yeah, he kinda was. It's really stunning to me that, aside from Chris Jericho and Lance Storm, all of the Western Canadian/Stampede guys who made it big in the 80s are either dead (Davey, Bad News, Pillman, Owen, 'Quake...) or drained-out shells of the men they once were (Neidhart, Dyno, Bret...). It's genuinely nuts. I guess the guys like us who never made it are in fact the lucky ones.

Not really the time to toot my own horn, but I've been saying this from the jump. I really think when you make a career out of shit like that, you break in with the Harts, your hero is the dynamite kid, you are a roidhead..I mean god it's really the "perfect storm" for something terrible like this. Jesus, DW, you make it sound like you're proud that this happened. I don't believe that's what you intended, but please ease up a bit.

Mine arrived, but it's honestly painful for me to watch pro wrestling right now. I'll try and contribute to the discussion a little later, when I'm feeling less messed up.

Thank you, Loss.

Maybe it's because I write for a more mainstream site, but it doesn't seem to me that ROH's buzz is at a low point AT ALL. On Inside Pulse, for example, it used to be that I would include a nod to ROH whenever it worked as part of a column, or sometimes I'd devote a whole column to, say, Bryan Danielson; and sometimes SK or someone would throw out a review of a big show. Last year, a whole bunch of the writers started to get into ROH. In our '06 awards, the promotion was really featured for the first time, including Danielson taking WOTY. Now, Pulse Wrestling covers almost every show, many of them live, and such old-school "name" writers as Eric S. have become an ROH fan. I've seen similar trends on a lot of the mainstream wrestling sites that I've visited this year. ROH is being taken seriously, rather than written off as "just another indie." I think maybe it's at the point where they are going from "favourite college band" status to "radio and MTV hot star" status, and so we (the more elitist wrestling fan base) are beginning to turn our backs on them... But people who were "only free TV wrestling" fans in '05 are getting hip to ROH in '07. The TNA defections hurt, but roster is still more than fine, with the Briscoes on fire and Danielson back full time.

I... concur. Han vs. Tamura or Han vs. Kohsaka is virtually always going to produce some amazing mat work. It's top-line stuff all the way, and rather unique as well. As far as UWF(i), the Vader vs. Takada matches are the cliche first choice for new viewers for a reason: The Giant Foreigner vs. The Quick Native storyline is very easy to get into, and that can make for an easy transition into the different style of presenting a match. Not to mention the sick, sick, beautiful, stiffness of it all... Any one of the three would be suitable, really. Any of the top handful of matches from the DVDVR "Other 80s" project would make a nice second choice: 1. Nobuhiko Takada vs Akira Maeda (11/10/88 UWF) 2. Yoshiaki Fujiwara vs Super Tiger (12/5/84 UWF) 3. Nobuhiko Takada vs Bob Backlund (12/22/88 UWF) 5. Yoshiaki Fujiwara vs Super Tiger (7/17/85 UWF) 6. Masakatsu Funaki vs Tatsuo Nakano (7/24/89 UWF) 7. Super Tiger vs Yoshiaki Fujiwara (9/7/84 UWF) Funaki vs. Nakano is a killler. It was one of my favourite matches on the set. Ishikawavs. Ikeda 8/29/99 is also asskicking at its very finest. There are a ton of good to great matches in the tournament leading up to it as well. I'd say that after that you could throw in one of the crazy tags, like Ikeda & Ono vs. Otsuka & Yoneyama from the Samurai TV 8/9/98 show... or even the insane Usuda vs. Yamakawa match (I seem to remember that being on the same show???) that featured barbed-wire-wrapped kick pads. Crazy stuff! Might make a good pairing with that Oz match where she gets kicked in the face by chain-wrapped boots...

For the record, I've always enjoyed watching Cena wrestle and do the other peripheral stuff. It's just that: 1) I don't think that someone who draws a mixed reaction almost everywhere he goes should be sweeping the awards, particularly the awards that get handed out on the basis of controlling the crowd's reaction. He's good, but he isn't (at this point, in my opinion) THE BEST. 2) I didn't get as much out of his brawl vs. Umaga as most people seem to have done. I enjoyed it, but it didn't blow me away. That being said, it might just be a factor of me not watching much WWE any more, and so missing out on the build and the development of Cena's character. Whenever I do see him, he is entertaining as always, but he seems to have no control whatsoever over the crowd's reaction to him. Flair, for example, seemed to have the majority of the crowd in the palm of his hand most of the time. Cena seems like he's forced to work against the crowd as often as not. That's not hating on Cena, nor is it being unfair. It's a big part of a pro wrestler's job to control crowd reactions. Cena's getting better at it, and he's definitely improved in the ring... but he isn't there yet. I see Morishima and the Briscoes as examples of pro wrestlers who do a much better job of getting the reactions that they want out of the crowds that they play to. A huge part of that may be down to Cena having to take part in poorly-scripted skits and recite poorly-written promos... but I'm still not overly impressed by the audience-psych aspects of Cena's performance.

That's an interesting take on it, DW. Sitting next to a ranting redneck at a live show can be fun, in a way... but week in week out on TV that just totally fails to appeal to me. Maybe I need to lighten up. I find it easier to just not watch TNA, though, unless there's a match that is truly compelling (and, more than likel, on one of gh's Best of... comps).

WOTY is output + drawing, so Morishima doesn't really fit. I might argue that he is drawing people to ROH shows when he comes over here. I'd certainly argue that ROH is drawing people in '07 who never came to an ROH show in '05 or '06... I don't know how many promotions can claim that... and I'd say that the presence of Japanese names on the bigger cards may be a factor in some people finally taking the plunge... I guess it depends if "drawing" is all about who has the max numbers, or if it's also about who is pulling new people in. Most charismatic /= best babyface/best heel. Cena gets a reaction either way. I think that the best babyface gets almost everyone to cheer him, and the best heel gets everyone to boo him (...or her). I don't think the award is for "Best performance in splitting audience loyalties down the middle... What?!?! He's one of the most protected guys in WWE. If he isn't in the championship/main event picture, he's not being pushed at the level his talents justify. (Keep in mind: I am another stereotypical Benoit mark). "There's no other weekly show that Meltzer would accept" ??? I wrote "There is no other weekly show that I go out of my way to watch..." but that's not true. I go out of my way to watch Heroes So... I changed it to: "There's no other weekly show that Meltzer would accept..." I really don't mind West as the 2007 version of David Crockett. He certainly does a better job than Tazz at this point. I really do mind West. I find him worse than Tenay. It's the constant exaggeration that irks me. As I've written elsewhere on these boards, when someone in TNA hits a big suplex, and I'm about to start thinking "Hey, great suplex..." West can generally be counted on to come in with "THAT'S THE BIGGEST SUPLEX THAT ANYONE HAS EVER HIT!!!!! I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE IT!!!!!" and it ruins the moment for me, and I start to think, "I've seen bigger suplexes..." The two of them together make TNA borderline unwatchable half the time.

I'll have to stick with what I've seen. I haven't watched much WWE this year, and what I have seen, I haven't enjoyed all that much more than I've enjoyed any recent Corporate wrestling. I think the Cena vs. Umaga brawl is WAAAAAY over-hyped , I watched it on PPV with friends as it was happening, and while I enjoyed it, I hardly found it to be a match of the year candidate. There were some good spots, but the ending felt contrived and I didn't get the same sense of firey hatred that most other people seem to have found there. Anyway: Lou Thesz/Ric Flair Award (Wrestler of the Year) Takeshi Morishima. Screw the haters. Morishima's the closest thing we have to a young Terry Gordy on the scene today. Yeah, he isn't great on top just yet, and yeah, he's better in tags... but he's getting it done in NOAH and ROH, and I've seen more that I've liked out of him than out of any other top-name world-champion-level wrestler this year. Most Outstanding Wrestler Mark and Jay Brisco. I don't see any problem in granting the Wrestle of the Year award to a team if the team was truly dominant over a twelve-month period. It's the most prestigious award, and we shouldn't let semantics keep it from going to the most deserving recipient. If the Briscoes can keep it up, then they will be the obvious choice to take the Wrestler of the Year award in 2007, much as Brian Danielson was the clear #1 in 2006. I don't see any sign that the Briscoes will be slowing down, either. I might have given my personal WOTY prize to the Bulldogs in 1986. That year, they made the leap from Stampede to the WWF, had the tea party with Mr. Fuji and Moondog Spot, beat the Dream Team at WrestleMania 2 to take the straps, and feuded with the Hart Foundation. Ric Flair, who was a perpetual WOTY candidate throughout the decade, was tied up in feuds with Dusty Rhodes and Nikita Koloff though most of '86, so it was one of his weaker years in terms of match quality. I also like the Midnight Express as WOTY in 1988. Flair had some great matches against Sting and Luger that year, but I'd personally take Lane & Eaton's matches against The Fantastics, Arn & Tully, the Road Warriors, and the "Original" Midnight Express. This year, I've enjoyed more matches featuring the Briscoes, by quite a wide margin, than I have from any one singles wrestler. Best Box Office Draw Cena and Mistico again...? Sure, whatever. I've never really seen why this is something to be voted on, it's not really a subjective category. If you're talking about drawing ME to the arena, it's Brian Danielson. Feud of the Year Chris Benoit vs. MVP? At least we got some good matches out of their run... not really much of an out-of-the-ring build for it that I'm aware of, though... Tag Team of the Year The Briscoes definitely run away with this for the first half of 2007. Most Improved Probably Yuji Nagata. He's more or less come back from the dead in terms of wrestling in entertaining matches again. Best on Interviews Jimmy Jacobs has been damn entertaining so far this year. Most Charismatic Sorry, did you say CIMA? Oh. Sorry. Cena. Yeah, let's talk about that when he can either win the WHOLE crowd over or get everyone to hate him. I'll stick with CIMA, I don't even need to understand him to get behind hating his character 100 per cent. Best Technical Wrestler Danielson. He just keeps getting better and better. Bruiser Brody Memorial Award - Best Brawler Abdullah Kobayashi Jr. and Yoshihiro Takayama have both been in brawls that I enjoyed WAY more than Cena vs. Umaga or Cena vs. Khali. Best Flying Wrestler Dragon Kid. For overrated/underrated, remember that the WON definition is talent vs push, not hardcore fan consensus... Most Overrated *cough* On this board?... nah, just kidding... Cena is pretty good now. I might vote for Edge, he always seems a little out of place among the real Main Eventers whenever I catch a WWE show. That could very well be due to me just not watching enough WWE, though. I've probably missed something there. Maybe Khali, if we're purely talking talent:push ratio. Most Underrated Benoit. Promotion of the Year UFC Best Weekly Television Show TUF (Sorry, but it's true. There's no other weekly show that Meltzer would accept that I actually go out of my way to watch... and they are Meltzer's awards, so I don't really care if anyone else feels that MMA should be included or not). Worked Match of the Year Either Nigel McGuinness vs. Takeshi Morishima - 4/14/07 ROH or Briscoes vs. Doi and Shingo - ROH Fifth Year Liverpool Rookie of the Year Beats me. Best Non-Wrestler Vince McMahon. Best Television Announce JBL Worst Television Announcer Tenay. And West is Worst Color Guy. Best Major Show I enjoyed WrestleMania way more than I had expected to... but I enjoyed ROH's Fifth Year Finale even more. Worst Major Show December to Dismember? OK. I'll take your word for it. Best Wrestling Maneuver GO. TO. SLEEEEEP!! I'lll try to finish this off later...

That I agree with 100 per cent.

I'm curious what Dylan Waco's opinion is. I know that he likes Don West's color commentary. I personally can't stand the TNA announce team, to the point where I find it very to hard to enjoy watching even two of the best TNA matches in a row... but I don't know if speaking down to the audience and yelling all the time truly makes them more loathsome than, say, McMahon...

I'd say that when SC had the Greatest Wrestler Ever poll going, it led to some of the very best wrestling discussion that I've ever seen. Many of the people that made that work are posting here now from time to time. I'm hoping that the DVD Club threads will lead to some similar discussion.