Dylan Waco

Not really the time to toot my own horn, but I've been saying this from the jump. I really think when you make a career out of shit like that, you break in with the Harts, your hero is the dynamite kid, you are a roidhead..I mean god it's really the "perfect storm" for something terrible like this.

I am in no way absolving Chris Benoit of responsiblity if the reports are true (and they sadly almost certainly are), but really I think there is ample reason to suggest that the pro wrestling lifestyle is at least minimally complicit in this.

You were arguing with me, and I didn't call you a racist

Horrifying on multiple levels. The nature of the death and the abruptness of it is of course tearjerking. Really I have no clue how to respond.

I just want to hear someone try and coherently argue that Benjamin and Van Dam aren't sloppy and that Henry is clearly a looser wrestler.

This is a particularly interesting point because a few years ago there was a guy on the roster who was tremendous at selling, but had a fairly limitied moveset and many of his signature moves were done in a very sloppy, weak or otherwise haphazard way. This included the guys finisher(s) with to be honest were applied much less consistently than the FU or STFU supposedly are. Somehow despite this fact the guy still managed to have very good to great matches with regularity...not only that, but the matches were generally recognized as such by many of the same fans that actively loathe Cena today. Of course Cena was never the net darling that Chris Benoit was.

Oh come on, you have to be kidding. Really you might be the only wrestling fan I know who won't grant that RVD and Shelton are sloppy.

Oh come on, he has to be kidding with that last one...RIGHT?

Yeah Coral as a wrestling valet is such a natural leap.

A Nagayo comp would be awesome. Also you are absolutely right about the drama and atmosphere of AJW.

RVDs punches are terrible, but it's his awful execution with his allegedly "educated feet" coupled by the fact that he has trouble hitting major signature spots that he has been doing for years that has earned him a reputation as being exceptionally sloppy. Really I am trying to think of a less crisp wrestler on the roster right now and only Shelton Benjamin comes to mind (and Benjamin is essentially Rob Van Dam/Kurt Angle hybrid). Anyhow, I think you really ought to watch those three Cena matches again if you get the chance. It may not change your opinion on Cena, but the way he works is drastically different in all three and he is definaely playing off the crowd.

I'm telling you The Miz was the guy. The ECW project is essentially the highest level of the developmentals now. It also exist as a big fuck you to the ECW "traditionalists" fanbase of the past. No one better exemplifies both things than the Miz.

The Miz totally should have won the belt

Once again, I"m not a Bob fan. I don't even like "peak" Bob very much. But I can't change what I see with my own eyes. Bob was working for the fluke pin early and often, but he still looked strong. Kid's "crazy moves" were his entire persona. Literally that was his role, his reason for existing and his reason for success. Saying he "had to resort" to that is like bitching cause Bret had to resort to the sharpshooter. That was his ace in the hole. Anyhow, Bob dictated the pace of the Bret match and brought most of the interesting stuff to the table. Bob didn't get alot of other chances during that run...also Bret was a guy who was more than willing to let guys have there kind of match and didn't mind taking a backseat if it was someone he respected.

Jingus, all bullshit aside, I'd like to here your thoughts on the three Cena matches above and the way he worked those matches. Also, being a guy who is by his own admission big on execution of moves, it doesn't bother you that RVD probably has worse offensive exectuion at this point, than pretty much anyone on the WWE roster?

Loss touched on this, but Ross is really, really awesome in this..when Flaire comes out "OH GAWD!"..and his indigant "you are talkin about the world champion of the NWA" is pretty great. Also, there is no one who makes better use of the security rail for bumping effect than Funk.

I really don't even know what to say, but Poffos face throughout this is really, really amusing

Two Brits I really enjoy. Rocco is a favorite of mine, and at times I think he may be better than DK, who I have always thought was incredibly overrated. One thing that really stands out to me about this is the incredible level of height and impact of everything. Moves like backbody drops and double arm suplexes look like legit finishers because they are performed so well and both guys take such strong bumps. Both guys are also really good with tight forearms and knees. One thing about the round system that makes things odd at times is it seems like guys make comebacks and cutoffs way early. There are several instances where one guy will hit a pretty high impct move and will almost immediately be on the defensive, but I guess that's the nature of the style. Either way at times this does feel like a really well worked Kurt Angle v. Chris Benoit match.

Yeah. I would dispute the numbers. I've seen only a handful of Cena matches that I enjoyed. I've seen only a handful of RVD matches that I didn't enjoy. (Almost all in New ECW, the worst wrestling show on TV.) ...huh? True, Kobashi is kinda repetitive, "drop me on my head then I LARIATOOO then we both fall down" and such. But he can change it up just fine depending on the opponent. I thought his match against Joe was better than anything I've ever seen Cena do. I like Kobashi/Joe alot, but really it wasn't much better than Cena/JBL from Judgement Day 05 and that was a match very early in Cenas transition into a full time quality wrestler. Also, I am interested. Where are these good RVD matches over the last couple of years? I'm actually not usually a guy who hates on Van Dam, as I think he can be useful at times, but he has really been remarkably bad in one on one encounters for some time. When he first came back he went through this wierd phase where he was really good at taking nasty unprotected headbumps and it worked well because he was working in multi-mans and odd situations. But for the most part he's been fairly weak since his return. You point to thee terrible new ECW...yet the Big Show and Ric Flair had a very good match on that show, and that was hardly the only good match the show has provided. Interestingly enough Sabu v. Van Dam was an awful match on that show..one of the worst of that entire year..espcially odd because Cena managed to have good matches with Sabu and Van Dam that year. Would you suggest those matches were bad? And how do you account for the awful RVD/Sabu match even though it ws given time, Sabu was on a role at the time (he had a good match with Big Show around this period for example, and I'm willing to betyou aren't much of a fan), the two have a strong history together and it was in an enviornment that in theory was favorable to them?

I hadn't seen this in a long time and I admit that I have ver odd feelings about this. On the one hand it is a match with incredible atmosphere, as everything from the interences, the crowd, to the demeanor of the performers is just outstanding and very hard to beat. It's also a match filled with more violent visceral hatred than virtually any other match you can think of and certainly more than any other puro match I can think of. That said I am not as high on Dump as others. Yeah she is a transcedent wresler in a way, and it is hard to imagine Joshi without her. But there is something about her that I have never really been able to grasp as strongly as other Joshi fans. I can't really put my finger on it, since she is awesome performer, but yeah. Honestly I think if I had gotten into Joshi before Garbage wrestling I would have a different view,but alas I didn't. Anyhow the match is very good, but discomforting. I recently watched and reviewed an SD squash where Brock Lesnar pretty much killed Zach Gowan..here is what I had to say.. ""Just watched Brock v. Zach Gowen on dailymotion and holy shit this match is disturbing. Alot of people talk about how Foley "went to far" with the HITC and the I Quit match, but neither bothered me as much as watching this. I'm not sure if that is a testament to how good both guys were here or not. Either way the reason the match comes off as such a massacre is not entirely because Gowen has one leg..in large part is because of the fact that Lesnar really is perfect as a the boneheaded jock that made fun of handicapped kids in school, getting a chance to beat the shit out of one right in front of his family. This is a total squash, with Gowen getting offense only as a result of distractions and Lesnar running right through him. Gowen is just crazy here taking insane bumps off of powerbombs and f-5s that no reasonable person should take and then eating one of the nastiest chairshots you'll ever see. By the time the match is over he literally looks like the victim of a U.S. ariel strike, lifeless, missing limbs and totally immersed in his own blood. Really a horrifying spectacle." Now Chiggy is a much better Gowan, and Dump is Dump, but I get a similar feel with this match. It's a very good spectacle,but at times it feels like choreographed rape, espcially postmatch as the headshaving is just emotionally apalling in a way that really shoudn't be possible with something as goofy as pro wrestling. Point is that the match is a realistic massacre. Maybe to realistic. The closeup shot of Chiggy getting shoot stabbed with scissors is really cool..kind of...

So does Kobashi. Also, that is not entirely true. He tells variations of the same story, but there are pretty clear variations. Last year opposite HHH at WM (HHH is the big dawg Mania is HHH show), opposte Van Dam at ONS (ECW is Van Dams world) and opposite Edge in TLC in Toronto (Edges match and hometown) were pretty clearly matches designed to get negative responses for Cena, and matches were Cena was expected to adjust his game to overcome very different circumstances that were all seemingly insurmontable. I don't know anyone who argues these maches were bad matches, yet they were all pretty clearly matches that were more about Cena than his opponent and all pretty clearly matches that standout as uniquely good matches for his opponents. Yet somehow Cena tells the same boring story and sucks..hmm

It is true that we are talking about opinions, but the truth is that if you are going to get offended when people offer criticisms of your opinions you probably shouldn't air them on a public message board. Anyhow, RVD has had maybe two or three good singles matches in the last two years. Cena has had dozens. Care to explain this?

I sort of follow what is going on in Japan and got caught up big time last year where I watched pretty much all of the big matches...I have to say that some of the supposedly great Japanese matches last year were actively bad, the most consistent promotion was Big Japan (never thought I'd say that) and the most consistently good wrestler was probably Akira Taue. I enjoyed the hell out of MUGA and if someone wants to argue that I should track some of that stuff down, I would listen, but honestly after the level of disappointment with the "great" stuff from last year it's going to be hard to convince me to waste hours watching boring repetitive NOAH main events or horribly shity Yugi Nagata "classics". I watched a couple of the heavily pimped matches from January. I thought they were pretty weak. That same month I watched Umaga v. Cena and MNM v. Hardyz. Both were as good or better than any Japanese match I have seen over the last two years.

Oh, I like Nitro fine and thought MNM was a legit great team. But I don't really see any argument that he is better than Cena. At some point the Cena haters are going to have to explain how it is that he keeps stumbiling into great matches, when their favorites haven't been able to reach those heights, even when given serious chances (RVD being a picture perfect example).

Wait, are you suggesting that RVD and Nitro are better than Cena? Honestly I don't get the logic here. I understand that after a while it is nice to see someone do something fresh, but for the most part the notion that new is good is not one to live by. That notion brought us things like Vince Russo and the modern X Division.