Childs

I get that but a little harshness is part of the deal. I don't see it verging into incivility very often. And the tone is so much gentler than it was in earlier days of internet wrestling discussion. I remember reading the Smarkschoice threads and my god there were some vicious exchanges.

I've been trying to think of the right way to respond to Woof because he seems to be speaking for a sensitivity that exists for multiple people who are newer to the board. Steven always wanted this to be a wide-open process with flexible criteria, and that's what we've got. Your vote counted as much as his or Dylan's or Will's or mine. You have just as much space and just as attentive an audience if you want to explain why one of your guys got shafted or why your favorite style is underappreciated. But I'm not sure why you need to question the reactions of people who've been invested in this project from moment one and who've spent countless hours building cases for their guys in threads and on podcasts. Is this a land of strong opinions? Of course it is. Do I think my ballot is better than yours? You're damn right I do. Does that in any way cancel out your votes or your platform to explain them? Nope. We are going to end up with a top 100 that represents a broader consensus of hardcore fans rather than a consensus of the people who post here the most. And that's fine. That's what the process was designed to do. But you can't be shocked that the posters who form the core community here are having their say about the results.

He said he was stopping at 110, so no more today.

Dory was No. 69 in 2006, one spot below Tiger Mask. So that's a decent-sized drop. I guess I'm more surprised he finished as high as he did then, but that poll seemed to have more of a pro-legends bent.

Malenko did fall 34 spots from 2006 though. If I recall correctly, the 2006 countdown was also full of people feeling vexed that the results did not match the discussion. So perhaps it's just endemic to this process.

Yes and yes.

I've got 81 left. Last 20 reveals were really bloody for me.

My wife asked why I was laughing at my phone and there was no way to begin to explain.

I'm not at all surprised by that. Little to add to his legacy since '06 and mostly precedes the Super J era. The appreciation of his shootstyle stuff, especially the PWFG classics, came after '06.

Sano actually dropped from 2006. What the fuck?

Hulk Hogan is the biggest star the industry ever produced. Did you really expect him not to rank in the top 125? Expect? No. Hope? Yes.

And Takayama. Ugh. Dean Malenko in no way deserves to stand in such company.

Otsuka-Sano-Kansai, you guys are killing me. Brutal.

Just to pile on, everyone should read these (and Stomper's match reviews while you're at it).

Maybe you're right. I still think the backlash sucks and is ridiculous. And it's not like Takada not being great at pure shoot-style is anything new. I was having discussion with Mike (Lorefice) more than fifteen years ago about this. That's a good theory, and I think the souring had to happen first to set up the marginalizing. It is fascinating to watch Takada become a fringe guy, because there's no question he was once regarded as the king of shootstyle workers. That's great. The limited footage guys are always a puzzle to me, so I'm intrigued to hear how others look at it. Honestly, I probably overstate in my own mind the paucity of Thesz footage. We have a pretty good idea how he worked.

Marvin, I'm interested in your thoughts on how you judged the classic guys. Would you say you based it mostly on how they look in the footage you have seen? Or did you also give them significant credit for their importance?

The problem is that the voters most likely to give these styles/regions attention are the ones giving everything attention. In those cases, there's only so much room when you're considering everything. Those styles needed more niche voters to take part to represent them better, along the lines of the number of ballots that have 50 or more Japanese males or modern U.S. wrestlers on them. That's exactly right. I ranked a bunch of those guys but in the lower half, which only does so much good.

Just jumping back in here. I knew Takada would plummet but I'm surprised he fell that far. Thought he might still sneak in the tail end of the top 100. I was also surprised how far Kikuchi dropped, though he didn't get discussed too much in the threads. Marty Jones was my first top 50 guy to go, but it's hard to be too disappointed considering he was No. 282 in 2006. I'm now rooting hard for Grey to hold on until the top 100. It does seem the sheer volume of votes has been hard on lucha, Europe and Joshi. All but the consensus elites from those spheres are dropping.

I think I'm nine down. The cuts definitely felt deeper today.

Me too.

I was happy about that one. We could form a great grumpy old man tag-team El-P. Me in a top hat, you in a Napolean outfit. "The Roaring Twenties." Apparently you can feud with Childs and myself as "You Maryland Pedants." That could be the finisher, a double-team hamstring snap. We'll lecture your asses into submission. Although as an English scholar, you probably have a massive tolerance for tedium.

Just because we're all doomed doesn't mean you've got to go rushing folks across the river.

Dundee ain't dead.

I think Sangre Chicana will hold on longer because of his prominence on the DVDVR set.

Navarro takes me down to 94. He moved up exactly one spot from 2006 despite doing a lot of great work in the interim. But given the obscurity of IWRG, that's not too bad.