sek69

I'd agree with the Invasion, as that was the easiest money feud any promotion could ever have asked for. WWF vs NWA/WCW was the one feud everyone who was ever remotely interested in wrestling wanted to see. They even had over a decade of both sides bashing the other on commentary they could have used as retroactive build, but instead it became yet another Austin vs Vince rehash and they lost nearly half the audience.

See, at least with the others you at least knew what they were aiming for. I never understood the point of the Evil Foreign Heel Menace From......Finland? How was that supposed to get over at all? Is he going to sodomize you with skis? He wasn't even that bad of a wrestler for the WWF at the time, but the premise was so ridiculous people were just like "LOL Finland".

It boils down to this just like it does with a lot of wrestlers out there. The people who think Cena is a very good professional wrestler think he is believable enough in what he does. There's no problem there. The ones who don't think he is a very good professional wrestler don't believe in what he does. There's a problem there. Once that believability is strong enough for an individual than they will always think that wrestler is a very good professional wrestler. If they don't think he is believable enough in what he does than they will never think he is a very good professional wrestler. That's why as of now there are people on both sides of the fence on Cena's wrestling ability. It's why they will never cross over to the other side of the fence no matter what the other people on the other side of the fence are saying. Only if Cena changes will you see the possiblity of people fence jumping. Actually it seems more like they just hate someone who gets over because of personality rather than WORKRATE~! but whatever. The shit said about Cena is exactly the same shit that was said about Hogan when he was outdrawing all the more wrestling-centered territories by himself. People who don't think Cena is an excellent professional wrestler miss the entire point of wrestling itself. People already have their minds made up about Cena, and no amount of factual information will convince them otherwise.

Man Up was a pretty good show, but better than Wrestlemania? Really? Other than that, I'm in agreement with the rest of the winners. I'm sure there will be some outrage over Cena getting recognized for his drawing ability, but people are going to have to stop making all these ridiculously bullshit excuses for continuing to believe Cena isn't a very good professional wrestler.

Heh, according to the WON, Vince already nixed the Savage and Sting DVDs.

According to the latest WON, Nigel just had a mild concussion and Danielson just was woozy from losing blood. NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT GUYZ! (So the answer to the question in Bix's topic description is "yes, Dave will keep believing everything Gabe tells him")

I guess it's mainly because most people have the ability to simultaneously enjoy something while realizing that thing may have had a dark side? It's like enjoying a certain style of music while acknowledging your favorite band was coked up and doing degrading things to prostitutes while recording the album. It's not like everything is black and white. The world is shades of grey, and as such you can't expect there not to be things you don't 100% agree with. In an attempt to bring things back on topic by way of tying things together, it shouldn't be forgotten that JR got his start in the biz from Bill Watts. Dude probably saw people who thought they knew about the business get locked into a room and get the shit beat out of him. I'd wager that would probably be a main reason he's so dismissive of what gets written to him by people visiting his website.

You said states. Remember he died in Japan. Right, but was the autopsy done there as well?

I was reading Meltzer's review of the DVD in the latest WON, and I thought of something. With all the controversy surrounding David's death, why can't someone go to the source to get the death certificate? In most states you can request a copy since they are public record. The family might be able to cover up the autopsy (which I don't see how since those are usually public record too), but the death certificate should be easily attainable.

What prompted that? Guard rail whips are such a random thing to ban. Morally outraged Dave is always the best. Ironically, Vince would probably sacrifice a puppy on RAW next week if it got him on the local news like this did for Fritz. Oh man, even before it was officially called such, it was still WCW. After building the Warriors/Powers feud, the blowoff never happened since the PoP didnt want to do a scaffold match and jumped to WWF......the forerunner to the "feud never gets a proper ending" that became a trademark.

You seem to be coming at this from the perspective that it's somehow bad to not be an apologist. Is it so hard to accept that some people have squared the concept that something they enjoy watching has a dark side that has done hell of a lot of damage to some of the participants? I mean, surely you haven't gone this long as a fan of wrestling with access to the internets and not heard the Bill Watts stories so I don't know why you seem to think only certain wrestling groups get criticized.

HHH can get by on a 2 disc set since he has a match on almost every other set that's released.

I would think that if someone didn't like a thing, they wouldn't waste their time criticizing it. That may just be my take on it. Back to JR, I just love how he reverts to the whole "aw shucks" routine when someone calls him on his hypocritical BS. Along that same note, it's hilarious to suggest someone who's been around wrestling for 20+ years would not know how to "wink wink" suggest to someone that they need some chemical enhancement. Pretty much every company that exists has some sort of "code" that conveys the message that you can't just come out and say.

The new Legends Roundtable is up, and it's about the Territories. What struck me is how the consensus seemed to be that wrestlers today are hurt by not having different territories to hone their craft in, with Hayes in particular talking about visiting OVW and being disgusted at how poor the wrestlers were at cutting promos that weren't spoon fed. I mean, you have Patterson, Hayes, Ross, Foley, and Tazz going on about how WWE overscripts promos and don't give guys a chance to get over. You'd think at least a couple of those guys would be in a position to suggest changing that.

I'm surprised to see the "guy on one leg" comments in regards to Kerry. I thought that was kept pretty hush-hush until after he died.

Not to mention Lawler has been on TV in Memphis for the entire time he's been in the WWF/E, and lest we forget Vince himself did a whole angle down there.

Projects and lists, if you please. PM'd you. -- Loss, 01/10

When Armageddon was here in Pittsburgh, the staging was frigging huge and took up a hell of a lot of seats. Mellon Arena set up for wrestling with the usual Titan Tron/rampway set up seats about 15,000. I think they had probably 12,000 at Armageddon due to the stage setup.

This week's NWA episode marks the birth of the Big Gold Belt, and Ron Bass doing fill in duty for a no-show jobber in what probably was intended as a MX squash.

Ross also has not been part of the creative process since 1995. Come on, do you REALLY think they were trying to find a way to rip off WCW's idea when they came up with this? I don't think they had and conscious effort to rip off WCW. I just felt it humorously ironic that they shit on the idea of a War Games match, but will occasionally build a while episode of RAW the concept that was arguably the most WCW (in both a good and bad context) thing ever. I mean there was an article in WWE mag a while back that buried the War Games match as confusing, so it's probably safe to say that Vince isn't fond of the idea. Hell, didn't Hunter try to convince them to do one and even HE got turned down?

JR did, several times in fact. Another thing that makes my nose bleed if I think about it too much: Vince hates anything that reminds him of 80s (read: NWA) wrestling, but pretty much all the key players of that era work for the company now in some capacity.

Vince apparently hates War Games because it was a NWA/WCW idea, but "Spin the Wheel, Make the Deal" is a perfectly okay gimmick to reuse? Really?

Also on the Pyramid, Wolf proved you *can* use a Canadian Destroyer in a non-wrestling context.

I don't know if anyone watched, but the two hour premiere was tonight. They brought back most of the original games and added a few new ones that fit in well. The Eliminator is still way more exciting than like 99% of pro wrestling. Now they have a pool with fire on top and the contestants have to swim under the fire. They had a former Marine/current mom who misjudged the bars that the fire sets on and finished the course with the veritable crimson mask. Hogan and Ali were decent as hosts (I guess they have good editors), and I can see this being a decent hit considering there won't be much competition. Also at one point the commentator made a joke about what gladiator Crush's (Gina Carano) other likes were. I could almost hear Dave jumping off his couch.

I love how JR somehow can be both a crusty old Okie who appreciates criticism and loves people expressing their opinions, while also becoming extremely thin-skinned and passive aggressive whenever anyone not in TEH BIZ~! questions his abilities or uses insider lingo. I mean come on, it's 2008. I think it's time to stop with the outrage whenever someone uses wrestling-speak on the internet.