DylanZero

Strobogo's totally right. Once he shows he can actually wrestle seriously then all appeal of his gimmick faded away. I also agree the opponents constantly looking like fools to get him over is one of the worst comedy gimmicks. You can't deny his popularity and they've more or less succeeded to the AEW realm of fans of getting him over as a main event level guy despite everything logically wrong with him. As a wrestler when it's time to fire up and be serious he's not bad by any means, but not special in my opinion. At the end of the day there's a reason he's who he is and known for his gimmick more than actual wrestling. Which there's totally nothing wrong with btw but just not a very good case as one of the best pure in-ring performers of all time.

If Alexa Bliss and Charlotte Flair, two actively horrible workers and joke candidates are nominated and talked about then Deeb surely can be. Cap didn't do anything wrong. Hell, Ken the Box is nominated so it's clear if there are any "serious" standards to nominees that flew out the window. Personally I think as many wrestlers as possible should be nominated just to be as thorough as possible and see no issue with that, even if it's just to reject them and counter why they AREN'T. Although that would lead to a lot of people like this where it's like "Good, yes. But top 100 literally of all time..?" Actually putting people in the top 100 should be under a much greater microscope and for that Deeb should be one of the ones rejected, not necessarily due to lack of skill but due to lack of time and not really standing out on a major level until a handful of matches 15 years into her career. But she is having a career renaissance and that's admirable.

Entirely too harsh, that match with Hyuga was unwatchable? What. For an Ace vs. Ace match that went 60 I thought they did a great job and deserve a ton of credit for effectively filling it, particularly against their contemporaries and even successors who have tried similar length matches. To me compare that match to basically anyone who got famous through the Western Japanese Wrestling Boom in the 2010s like Naito, Okada, Omega, blahblahblah and that match blows them away from a pure wrestling standpoint. Not saying it's perfect or anything because who can really fill that length outside of the true all time greats of wrestling completely but come on now. It wasn't a 0 either, far from it. Tamura has great matches, wish there were more there. Would take Hyuga of the dark ages of Joshi stars in-ring and she's a fringe candidate at best despite being one of my favorites of that era. This time has been lost to time hard and it's gonna be hard to justify her because of that but if you just watch those 3 matches in the OP you'll have done well for yourself for 2 hours or so. Vs. Uematsu was a legit MOTYC for 1997 and the other 2 were not only good but also she performed her role well in both of them. Good suplexes and stiff strikes shown even to the end of her career.

TK is awesome, I won't rank him high but I'll have room for him on the back end. Everyone knows Tamura and Han, but guys like TK & Yoshihisa Yamamoto deserve a lot of props too for their work at the top of the RINGS echelon and deserve serious consideration.

He's pretty good for pretty much his entire career. That's it though. Never once have I thought of him as a top tier wrestler in any era but I don't think you'd hate yourself if you watched more of him.

Uematsu definitely deserves a greater look in this.

The highlight of that match easily is the part where Steele gets Hash in the corner and basically hits him with the weakest, lamest strike forearm ever and Hash just rolls his eyes like "Are you serious?" And proceeds to turn the tables and show him how it's done/beat the shit out of him in which had to be a shoot. It was the most Hashimoto spot ever in wrestling and life and will always, always pop me greatly.

Checkmate, Choshu fans.

Man...I love this project for bringing this match into our sights. You rock, Rah.

I love that whole rivalry. Set the stage for a legendary team in Rey Bucanero and UG and I completely agree with this assessment of Satánico's role in this feud as the secondary guy who is perfect for it. Great performances and great in a way that made literally everyone else involved look better and bringing them up to his level rather than outshining on everyone and making himself the big star like many others would have. He's an all time great. I won't say he's my #1 Luchador but he's in my top 5 all time.

Just watch his tournament run plus his Akiyama matches. Akiyama was a MOTYC last year IMO and I loved how he performed vs. Lindaman in their singles match which led me to making that comment. The response Boss Rock gave me included guys like Kojima in 2017 which was a legacy veteran in the G1, as big as Okada himself, and a completely different dynamic than Lindaman. A better comp would be Okada vs. Ishimori last year in NJC and one guy did much better than the other in that situation and it wasn't Okada. But really any situation I think you could point to and Takeshita has at least made something decent of it, whether a real legend like Akiyama, a super small u underdog guy like Lindaman, intergender matches, tag matches, six mans, Takeshita has added to them favorably. That said, he's not on my radar for GWE at all, he's just one of the more enjoyable modern heavyweights and I like him favorably as an Ace wrestler compared to Okada and Kento (although admittedly Kento is more charismatic but as a worker give me Takeshita). I like him and that's on a roster whose surrounding cast I largely don't enjoy at all to actively think are bad, but I can always count on someone like him to make the best of it which is nice, but to me he's not one of the best ever, even by 2026 some crazy run would have to happen for me to consider Takeshita.

I was the highest voter on him last time and certainly will threaten again. I think he doesn't have the total meat of his contemporaries in terms of total matches but he was SO good I love this guy every single time I've seen him. Highly recommend giving him a shot with what's available. He was one of my all time favorites to watch. The true best Malenko of all time.

I'll give some of those tag matches you posted another shot and some of his older singles work. I probably won't ever be as high on Okada as you and a lot of people but it's only fair to comb through these guys, especially high profile ones like Okada and Omega. I also will say few from modern day NJPW will be on my list. Tana and Ishii will be locks and I might find room for Goto as he is someone I consider underrated historically and arguably the most "consistent" of anyone in NJPW for even longer than Ishii. Okada, Naito, Ibushi are the big names I'll be looking at but I've never liked any of them as much as others in the past. But 3 out of this NJPW era I recognize is a low number for most people.

Love him. Always loved him. Certainly has a case because he is one of the best in the modern era. How will these next 5 years go though?

I forgot who said it, but I remember them saying when they got into BattlArts, that Ikeda and Ishikawa got all the hype but watching them Otsuka and Carl Greco was who you wanted to see more of. And I agree with that. (Not saying I'm voting Otsuka over Ishikawa but just that he pops off in a way a lot of guys don't RIGHT AWAY). He made my list last time in the mid tier and I don't see anything changing that. We all need more Otsuka in our lives.

Makabe I'll give you as that was a great match and better than what most of his contemporaries could have and would be able to get out of him, Fale and Elgin weren't either man's best matches or even particularly good IMO. Tenryu I agree that the match was verybgood but an extremely special case and again not based on him being a great wrestler. I actually KIND OF agree with your point on that G1, because I know I'm not alone in thinking he wasn't good in it, even among Okada fans. But to me I think if you were a fan of his before you should have liked his G1 then too as he didn't change anything about his wrestling, his changes were purely cosmetic. But to me that's still a huge negative. Where is his big tag run, where are his special matches where he is great in an unexpected way? Where did he do anything different from what he did against everyone else? In 2021 higher batting average would be many to me, but I would immediately list Ishii, Tanahashi, Goto, Ibushi, Hiromu, Shingo, SHO, YOSHI-HASHI, Nagata, Kojima and I feel confident in all 10 of those guys having a better average of performances than Okada, and you can also make arguments for others that other people think are great and I either don't like as much as others (ZSJ) or don't think has enough singles match experience even though I enjoy watching them more (Finlay) and you could pick some on some days and Okada on others, I would say Naito, ZSJ, Desperado, Finlay, Suzuki, all have cases to be above Okada as well in a pure "likelihood of having a great performance on a given night" although again, I would put Okada above some of them and if we are talking career I also think for an overall career I would take nearly all of those over Okada as well outside of Desperado and Finlay, maybe YH & SHO and add in KENTA who I don't think is very good in the ring but was at a level far higher in the past. Then you get into the area of prior guys like the aforementioned Shibata and I just can't see any way Okada's an all time great breaking it down. As far as Takeshita I saw that guy have huge main events with Akiyama that are on the level of Okada's top matches and also elevate El Lindaman in a way Okada has never even come close to in a singles match against a heavy underdog opponent like that in a matter of like a month last year. There's just no variety at all with Okada. If he's not in a specific role, the house of cards all falls down just like I said.

He didn't word it well but I totally agree with his point and it's an apt comparison to really expand upon his entire career and why I think he's overrated. At the end of the day Okada's a mid-tier guy that got pushed to the top top tier because the booker saw star potential in him and it was a zeitgeist moment of that push coming right at the point where many got into NJPW for the very first time and got emotionally attached to him. But his actual wrestling is nothing special, especially in comparison to the top tier of guys over the years and relies on the big match format. I'm not gonna sit here and say he's never had good matches, but it's for the reasons being argued for the Shibata match, because the way he was booked. If you look into his performances the house cards almost always falls apart and when he's away from other great workers and getting pushed, it's almost universally agreed it's horrible. Many people say his red hair, balloon era G1 sucked and they're correct, but what's really telling about it and to a greater extent him is that he didn't fail miserably at it in his wrestling. He wrestled the exact same way as he always did, while they tried to portray him as a depressed and/or mentally unhinged guy at not being a main eventer anymore, and yet he still won almost every match, in the same way as he did. Fast forward to now trying to get this money clip over and that also has been universally panned and his execution is laughably bad. I would trust anyone from the Divas era of WWE or the Power Plant of WCW to put on a submission better than Okada does the money clip. And that's still only slightly better than the Lucha inspired submissions he tried early on in his Ace runs that even Josh Barnett had to admit weren't very effective on English commentary in the AXS era to maintain credibility. People feel something and resonate with this guy and I'll never understand why. Nevermind the legends and all time greats, but even among his contemporaries like Kento (who I already said I don't think is that great), Kaito, & Takeshita he's miles behind in playing different roles and getting the most out of his own Ace role. He really is the definition of just a guy who happened to have the right look and come along at the right time and got pushed at the top tier. Again I'm not saying he never had great matches, but even his great matches aren't a huge plus for me. Every year he'll have 3-5 great matches and yet he'll get more opportunities than nearly every single person to have them in Japan and elsewhere. His batting average isn't higher than like a dozen guys on his own roster, so how can I rank him an all time great? I don't see it at all.

Panther got way underrated in my opinion in the last go round, don't think there's been anything too special since 2016 and quite frankly the odds of anything too special in the next 5 years is low (depending on how excited you are about a Satánico singles match in 2021 which we are set to get soon) but he's one of the only guys in modern CMLL, letalone old guys to not phone it in on every 3rd match trios match and tries to make it stand out not just for him, but his sons and at times his opponents as well. I rate him as a strong singles worker, with multiple matches of his making my top 50 of the year in years 1990-1995 & as high as #2 with him vs. Atlantis in 1991. Him vs. Santito were MOTYCs in the early 2000s. Had a MOTYC vs. Villano V (!?) In 2008. Lucha MOTYC vs. Averno as late as 2012. I think it's tough to beat him in terms of a fuller career, although criticism last go round was to him as a Rudo which I will concede that he wasn't the most bombastic personality in that role. That said if you put a gun to my head and had the ultimate random match generator and said "you must pick one wrestler and get something enjoyable out of this guy's career" then fuck if he wouldn't be one of my first picks. A vast majority of his matches I've seen, which is a lot, have been good or at least fun to this day. That to me is an all time great and I'll be voting him in or around my top 10 again, almost certain of it.

I watched 5 matches of his today and he was already in my top 25 last time. I kind of want to rank him number 1 whenever I watch him and forget about the others, but I bet he'll be a top 10 contender for me.

I think the earlier comparison to Okada is pretty on the nose for all sorts of reasons, for better and worse. It's too bad his earlier career is all but lost to time as I completely enjoyed his run as he was coming up with his 2013-2015 series with Akiyama and subsequent team with Go. He has something that many don't in his charisma and ability to connect even in the most dire of situations (which AJPW has often been when HE wasn't on top) He's objectively a great wrestler but like Okada there are glaring flaws that would prevent me from even thinking of him for this, but if things break right in 5 years he could be a good candidate, and personally I have WAY more hope for him than his contemporaries in the modern Aces on that regard. But he can disappear outside of just the right kind of matches, and when not pushed can sometimes actively hurt matches IMO with his one note ways. Telling in that his current tag team with Yuma Aoyagi, Yuma has been the better half of his team in every match they've had. I also think the Wada stuff with him is one of my most annoying things going in 2021 and absolutely tanks my interest in him. Then things just fall into place for him and suddenly he looks like the best wrestler in the world, and produces great stuff like his match vs. Zeus last year. Sadly those matches are way too few and far between in my opinion but the potential is there if he can bring it and streamline himself to cut down on his bad and keep his good more consistent.

I think one thing that justified her as a top tier candidate and arguably more than anyone else in wrestling is she has direct influence on her style all the way to this day more than the greatest of her era otherwise. Now I say that to a certain extent. Every fat guy who has shown up has had some kind of Jumbo comparison made but if you watch them they don't really wrestle like him. Compare the guys in Lucha like MS-1 to any CMLL main eventer today and it's like a totally different world. You can trace small parts of the Flairs and Races and at times Bock to today's US heels but I would say they aren't really direct successors to their style. With Jaguar you can see her not just with the Toyotas who she helped bring in and along but all the way to today with the Mayus and Kairis and Ios, you can see Jaguar in them to this day. She was my number 1 rated women's wrestler last go and I strongly suspect she will be again. She was also in my top 20 and I see no reason for her not to be again.

Absolutely love what he brought to the table and clearly on an era-for-era basis one of the most talented of all time and stylistically his mat game has always appealed to me, and I also love how he emotes and plays his character in his matches makes me think you could get more from him if you're NOT a fan of this style than you could from some of his contemporaries. We're farther and farther removed from his peak but he's a lock for my list.

In the best version of the world all the BattlArts guys caught on elsewhere and had great careers against other like minded workers and Ikeda never went back to NOAH and Yano just retired 10 years ago. But unfortunately things continued and most everyone disappeared or like Yammamoto is stuck permanently in the dregs of the lowest of the low indies. This man is still one of the better workers in Japan today and if he had a chance somewhere he could be a valuable mid-undercarder. But watching these matches, some I've seen and some even went under my radar which means they are VERY small. I just get sad watching them even though he himself is still quite good. Even if Hard Hit was a more prominent thing I could be down for it, late game BattlArts wasn't exactly selling out Budokan or anything but still. Yujiro and guys like Hara as well are guys with infinite potential and it never even got the chance to be what it should have.

Everyone should take this journey. Let's take it together.

The better of Strong BJ easily and one of the best and most consistent guys in what's largely a wasteland of a company. As recently as last year, in an empty arena, in 2AW, he still was bringing the goods against a bunch of indie guys. I also agree with the earlier post about him vs. Hideki being a ***** match and one of the best ever. Of the modern candidates, he has to be one of the strongest ones. He wasn't someone I had pegged early on but thinking about his career more I'd be really surprised if he didn't make it and who knows how far he can rise in 5 years?