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  1. cad

    Fuerza Guerrera

    See, Atlantis is a guy I would say was great for about four or five years. Even if he delivered a great match in 2000 or 2014 he wasn't the consistently electric presence he'd been in the EMLL glory days. Satanico's harder to pin down because his best stuff was in the 1980s and harder to document, but '90s Satanico wasn't exactly a great worker anymore, so it's hard to say how long he was great vs. how long Fuerza was. He'd have to have been special as early as the 1970s to have a big edge on Fuerza. Almost every '80s Fuerza match makes him look good. DJ Spectro recently uploaded a fancam from 1985-86 in which Fuerza works hard and has a good match in Arena Pista Revolucion, the third string EMLL arena in Mexico City. The list at the beginning of the thread is a good place to start. On a smaller scale, I remember when he came back to Arena Mexico in 1995 he was walking around ringside, kneeing Fiera in the groin and then kissing the hand of some woman who always had front row seats. It was this match: Blue Panther y Fuerza Guerrera Regresan a la Arena Mexico en 1995. I thought that captured Fuerza's essence quite nicely.
  2. cad

    Fuerza Guerrera

    I don't get dinging Fuerza for a lack of longevity, like at all. He was born in the early 1950s, same as guys like Americo Rocca. He was over 40 for all of those AAA matches with Rey, Panther, and the gang. Was he supposed to be a force at age 50? You can see from what little we have on him that he was good in the '80s too. And wasn't it 2016 when people were praising him for still being able to have a good match with Octagon at 60+? If the problem is that he wasn't great after 1995 or so, well, that's still six years he was a great worker. Most guys, even the great ones, aren't genuinely great for that long.
  3. cad

    Cien Caras

    He used to post here as Herodes but changed names for some reason. Doesn't look like his old account was banned.
  4. cad

    Best YouTube & Dailymotion Channels

    Yeah, I thought they were the better matchup in that fall actually. It's weird to see a forty year old excon getting treated as an equal by a workrate favorite who does powerbombs and moonsaults. They had a title match that was televised but IIRC it's from that period in late 1993 when almost no CMLL made its way into anyone's collections.
  5. cad

    Best YouTube & Dailymotion Channels

    Arturito Luchas Monterrey '90s wrestling from Monterrey. Mostly highlights/partial matches, and it looks like "filming your TV" quality video, but most of this is rare stuff, much of it featuring workers of whom we do not have a lot of video. He has the entire first fall of a Dandy/Ultimo Dragon vs Negro Casas/Mocho Cota match from 1994 and it's a damned good fall.
  6. cad

    Consensus Greatest Lucha Trios Ever?

    I don't think that English speaking lucha fandom has ever been large enough or connected enough for there to be a true consensus, but the already mentioned March 1995 AAA match and the November 1991 CMLL match were probably the closest candidates. Last time I watched them, I thought that the rudos got more heat on the tecnicos during the AAA match than I'd remembered, whereas with the CMLL match I thought there was a disconnect between how Satanico wrestled (wrestling even with or even getting the better of the Brazos) versus the other two Infernales (consistently losing their exchanges, at points outright stooging). I don't do star ratings, but when I tried to make a list of top ten Mexican matches for each year from 1988-1999, these were the six-mans that I thought were great: Brazo de Oro/Brazo de Plata/El Brazo vs Pirata Morgan/Hombre Bala/El Verdugo (the rematch, Nov. 1989) Emilio Charles Jr./MS-1/Tierra Viento y Fuego vs Atlantis/El Dandy/Mascara Sagrada (Nov. 1989) Pierroth Jr./MS-1/Ulises vs El Dandy/Mogur/Popitekus (Jan. 1990) Danny Boy/Lasser/Robin Hood vs Tigro/Panthro/Leono (title match, Aug. 1990) La Fiera/Jerry Estrada/Bestia Salvaje vs Blue Demon Jr./El Hijo del Solitario/Huracan Sevilla (Jan. 1992) Perro Aguayo/Rayo de Jalisco Jr./Konnan vs Cien Caras/Sangre Chicana/Mascara Año 2000 (Mar. 1992) Negro Casas/La Fiera/Bestia Salvaje vs El Dandy/Ringo Mendoza/Ultimo Dragon (Jul. 1992) Atlantis/Lizmark/Ultimo Dragon vs Negro Casas/Emilio Charles Jr./Bestia Salvaje (Jul. 1992) Atlantis/Pierroth Jr./El Dandy vs El Satanico/Emilio Charles Jr./La Fiera (Nov. 1992) Psicosis/Heavy Metal/Picudo vs Rey Misterio Jr./Winners/Super Calo (the rematch, Feb. 1993) Negro Casas/El Felino/Bestia Salvaje vs Ciclon Ramirez/Oro/Ultimo Dragon (Mar. 1993) El Dandy/Silver King/Ultimo Dragon vs Emilio Charles Jr./Pierroth Jr./Javier Llanes (Jan. or Feb. 1994) Blue Panther/Fuerza Guerrera/Jerry Estrada vs Super Astro/Volador/Transformer (Jan. 1995) El Hijo del Santo/La Parka/Octagon vs Eddy Guerrero/Santo Negro/Psicosis (Feb. 1995) El Hijo del Santo/Rey Misterio Jr./Octagon vs Blue Panther/Fuerza Guerrera/Psicosis (Mar. 1995) Negro Casas/El Dandy/Hector Garza vs El Hijo del Santo/Bestia Salvaje/Scorpio Jr. (rematch of the Santo turn match, Nov. 1996) Virus/Zumbido/Halcon Negro vs Olimpico/Kendo/El Oriental (Jun. or Jul. 1998) Dr. Wagner Jr./Blue Panther/Black Warrior vs Atlantis/Emilio Charles Jr./El Felino (Jan. 1999) Dr. Wagner Jr./Blue Panther/Black Warrior vs Atlantis/Emilio Charles Jr./El Felino (this was a pair of matches, a brawling match first and a title match the week after) That was a project from a while ago, and some of these have faded in my memory, so I will bold the ones that still stick out to me as MOTY level.
  7. Disappointing. I'd rather see an argument for her as the Michael Jordan of the WWF, the same way that Randy Orton is the Tom Brady of the WWF.
  8. I'd say he is or was just as self serious as Douglas. He has a sense of humor, but it's usually directed at others rather than at himself. And remember that video game ad or something, where the only rule was that they could not show HHH on the receiving end of a move? I doubt that even Douglas would have been that petty. Yeah, it was nice to learn that Cornette wanting wrestlers to sell too much for him was not something that originated in SMW.
  9. cad

    Matches That Changed Wrestling

    Andre vs Hogan is not a bad pick I think. Is that the first real "Wrestlemania moment" in terms of a specific move during a match? Stuff like that and the Snuka cage dive define what the WWF wanted out of its biggest matches back then. It doesn't seem to be much remembered now, but Liger vs Pillman would be a match that's along the same sort of evolutionary path as the Guerrero vs Malenko match. Although with Guerrero/Malenko I'd add that it also resembled modern matches in the audience not really caring who won or lost but just being excited by the skill on display and the fact that it was wrestled in their promotion.
  10. cad

    The Cancellation of Jim Cornette

    Yes, it's a shame more of them can't be blind fanboys who interact with the rest of the world solely to hammer us over the head with their banal opinions. Because that way they'd at least hold the right beliefs, like that year seven will finally be the year that Big Rome becomes the Steve Austin that we all know he has inside of him.
  11. cad

    Dark Side of the Ring: Viceland docu-series

    The trained boxer part mattered, the one hundred pounds didn't. Gunn was the same size as Butterbean, probably bigger unless they really exaggerated when billing his height. Bean was just fat.
  12. Mascara Magica was pushed for a minute in the late '90s, lost his mask to Satanico in some cluster cage match in the early '00s. Perro took someone else's mask in Monterrey around the time he got Konnan's. I don't remember whose, might have been a Huracan Ramirez. (Actually it was Stuka, bigger name than any of the unoriginal Huracanes) Psicosis suffered the ignominy of losing his mask twice to unmasked wrestlers, Rey Misterio Sr. in Mexico and Kidman in the USA. Juventud lost his to Chris Jericho in America, don't know who got him in Mexico (no one, it turns out, he just stopped wearing it there after he lost it in the states).
  13. He's 99% to blame in the sense that as the big boss he approves everything, but apportioning blame like that is pretty simplistic. Wasn't his MO famously to avoid mentioning wrestler's pasts elsewhere? I doubt he came up with the idea of highlighting a guy's work in Japan. Doubt he even knew all that much about it. IIRC when he introduced himself to Foley he said something like, "Hi, Mike." The original Mankind push was more his style, monster heel coming in, looking dangerous for a few months to build to the big match when the face takes him down. The NWO blurred the reality line in an entirely different way. Their appearances felt more real than the rest of the show, and that was for only a very brief time. They weren't encouraging a peek behind the curtain. Oh, I forgot the book. His was the first and most influential one.