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  1. cad

    Consensus Greatest Lucha Trios Ever?

    I don't think that English speaking lucha fandom has ever been large enough or connected enough for there to be a true consensus, but the already mentioned March 1995 AAA match and the November 1991 CMLL match were probably the closest candidates. Last time I watched them, I thought that the rudos got more heat on the tecnicos during the AAA match than I'd remembered, whereas with the CMLL match I thought there was a disconnect between how Satanico wrestled (wrestling even with or even getting the better of the Brazos) versus the other two Infernales (consistently losing their exchanges, at points outright stooging). I don't do star ratings, but when I tried to make a list of top ten Mexican matches for each year from 1988-1999, these were the six-mans that I thought were great: Brazo de Oro/Brazo de Plata/El Brazo vs Pirata Morgan/Hombre Bala/El Verdugo (the rematch, Nov. 1989) Emilio Charles Jr./MS-1/Tierra Viento y Fuego vs Atlantis/El Dandy/Mascara Sagrada (Nov. 1989) Pierroth Jr./MS-1/Ulises vs El Dandy/Mogur/Popitekus (Jan. 1990) Danny Boy/Lasser/Robin Hood vs Tigro/Panthro/Leono (title match, Aug. 1990) La Fiera/Jerry Estrada/Bestia Salvaje vs Blue Demon Jr./El Hijo del Solitario/Huracan Sevilla (Jan. 1992) Perro Aguayo/Rayo de Jalisco Jr./Konnan vs Cien Caras/Sangre Chicana/Mascara Año 2000 (Mar. 1992) Negro Casas/La Fiera/Bestia Salvaje vs El Dandy/Ringo Mendoza/Ultimo Dragon (Jul. 1992) Atlantis/Lizmark/Ultimo Dragon vs Negro Casas/Emilio Charles Jr./Bestia Salvaje (Jul. 1992) Atlantis/Pierroth Jr./El Dandy vs El Satanico/Emilio Charles Jr./La Fiera (Nov. 1992) Psicosis/Heavy Metal/Picudo vs Rey Misterio Jr./Winners/Super Calo (the rematch, Feb. 1993) Negro Casas/El Felino/Bestia Salvaje vs Ciclon Ramirez/Oro/Ultimo Dragon (Mar. 1993) El Dandy/Silver King/Ultimo Dragon vs Emilio Charles Jr./Pierroth Jr./Javier Llanes (Jan. or Feb. 1994) Blue Panther/Fuerza Guerrera/Jerry Estrada vs Super Astro/Volador/Transformer (Jan. 1995) El Hijo del Santo/La Parka/Octagon vs Eddy Guerrero/Santo Negro/Psicosis (Feb. 1995) El Hijo del Santo/Rey Misterio Jr./Octagon vs Blue Panther/Fuerza Guerrera/Psicosis (Mar. 1995) Negro Casas/El Dandy/Hector Garza vs El Hijo del Santo/Bestia Salvaje/Scorpio Jr. (rematch of the Santo turn match, Nov. 1996) Virus/Zumbido/Halcon Negro vs Olimpico/Kendo/El Oriental (Jun. or Jul. 1998) Dr. Wagner Jr./Blue Panther/Black Warrior vs Atlantis/Emilio Charles Jr./El Felino (Jan. 1999) Dr. Wagner Jr./Blue Panther/Black Warrior vs Atlantis/Emilio Charles Jr./El Felino (this was a pair of matches, a brawling match first and a title match the week after) That was a project from a while ago, and some of these have faded in my memory, so I will bold the ones that still stick out to me as MOTY level.
  2. Disappointing. I'd rather see an argument for her as the Michael Jordan of the WWF, the same way that Randy Orton is the Tom Brady of the WWF.
  3. I'd say he is or was just as self serious as Douglas. He has a sense of humor, but it's usually directed at others rather than at himself. And remember that video game ad or something, where the only rule was that they could not show HHH on the receiving end of a move? I doubt that even Douglas would have been that petty. Yeah, it was nice to learn that Cornette wanting wrestlers to sell too much for him was not something that originated in SMW.
  4. cad

    Matches That Changed Wrestling

    Andre vs Hogan is not a bad pick I think. Is that the first real "Wrestlemania moment" in terms of a specific move during a match? Stuff like that and the Snuka cage dive define what the WWF wanted out of its biggest matches back then. It doesn't seem to be much remembered now, but Liger vs Pillman would be a match that's along the same sort of evolutionary path as the Guerrero vs Malenko match. Although with Guerrero/Malenko I'd add that it also resembled modern matches in the audience not really caring who won or lost but just being excited by the skill on display and the fact that it was wrestled in their promotion.
  5. cad

    The Cancellation of Jim Cornette

    Yes, it's a shame more of them can't be blind fanboys who interact with the rest of the world solely to hammer us over the head with their banal opinions. Because that way they'd at least hold the right beliefs, like that year seven will finally be the year that Big Rome becomes the Steve Austin that we all know he has inside of him.
  6. cad

    Dark Side of the Ring: Viceland docu-series

    The trained boxer part mattered, the one hundred pounds didn't. Gunn was the same size as Butterbean, probably bigger unless they really exaggerated when billing his height. Bean was just fat.
  7. Mascara Magica was pushed for a minute in the late '90s, lost his mask to Satanico in some cluster cage match in the early '00s. Perro took someone else's mask in Monterrey around the time he got Konnan's. I don't remember whose, might have been a Huracan Ramirez. (Actually it was Stuka, bigger name than any of the unoriginal Huracanes) Psicosis suffered the ignominy of losing his mask twice to unmasked wrestlers, Rey Misterio Sr. in Mexico and Kidman in the USA. Juventud lost his to Chris Jericho in America, don't know who got him in Mexico (no one, it turns out, he just stopped wearing it there after he lost it in the states).
  8. He's 99% to blame in the sense that as the big boss he approves everything, but apportioning blame like that is pretty simplistic. Wasn't his MO famously to avoid mentioning wrestler's pasts elsewhere? I doubt he came up with the idea of highlighting a guy's work in Japan. Doubt he even knew all that much about it. IIRC when he introduced himself to Foley he said something like, "Hi, Mike." The original Mankind push was more his style, monster heel coming in, looking dangerous for a few months to build to the big match when the face takes him down. The NWO blurred the reality line in an entirely different way. Their appearances felt more real than the rest of the show, and that was for only a very brief time. They weren't encouraging a peek behind the curtain. Oh, I forgot the book. His was the first and most influential one.
  9. Hacks wouldn't have imitated him if he did it unsuccessfully.
  10. Are these really the two biggest problems with today's wrestling? Are they in the top ten? One of the biggest issues with present day wrestling is that no one is willing to buy into it. Matches are performances and wrestlers are performers playing a character. Obviously that was a natural progression of things to some extent, but that's something I think you really could say that goes back to Foley. I'm sure the funny stuff like him showing up in the hospital with a sock helped get him over, but he was one of the first to really embrace his fans cheering for the man behind the mask, so to speak. That's what made his title reign so emotional, the fact that it was Mick Foley finally achieving the dream after over ten years of hard work and sacrifice, more than just Mankind avenging a couple of screwjobs pulled by Vince and Rock. Compare that to Austin in the same era. He was getting cheered for being a badass, not because he overcame Bischoff and Hogan holding him down to finally get a push at the top of the card. Now Foley stories are commonplace, maybe even the template for a truly successful connection with the fans. Cody Rhodes and Daniel Bryan have a lot more in common with him than they do with Austin.
  11. cad

    2019 Wrestling Observer Hall of Fame

    Wow, that's a really impressive list of Mexican legends, and Volador Jr. is on it too.
  12. cad

    Best title matches for each belt

    NWA World Heavyweight: Ricky Steamboat vs Ric Flair, May 7 1989 NWA World Lightheavyweight: El Dandy vs Black Warrior, October 15 1996 NWA World Middleweight: Angel Azteca vs El Dandy, June 1 1990 NWA World Welterweight: Americo Rocca vs Mocho Cota, January 27 1984 CMLL World Heavyweight: Silver King vs Apolo Dantes, June 23 1995 CMLL World Lightheavyweight: Pierroth Jr. vs Satanico, 1993 or so CMLL World Middleweight: El Dandy vs Negro Casas, July 3 1992 CMLL World Welterweight: Mascara Magica vs El Felino, May 21 1996 CMLL World Mini: Damiancito el Guerrero vs Cicloncito Ramirez, January 7 1997 CMLL World Trios: Dr. Wagner Jr./Blue Panther/Black Warrior vs Atlantis/Emilio Charles Jr./El Felino, January 22 1999 UWA World Heavyweight: Canek vs Dos Caras, February 2 1992 UWA World Lightheavyweight: El Signo vs El Texano, January 12 1992 UWA World Middleweight: Negro Casas vs Ultimo Dragon, March 26 1993 UWA World Welterweight: El Hijo del Santo vs Espanto Jr., May 14 1992 UWA World Lightweight: Espanto Jr. vs El Hijo del Santo, 1988 WWA World Middleweight: Super Astro vs Leon Chino, 1990 WWA World Welterweight: El Hijo del Santo vs Blue Panther, April 9 2000 National Lightheavyweight: Lizmark vs Jerry Estrada, June 18 1993 National Middleweight: Atlantis vs El Faraon, March 22 1985 National Welterweight: Heavy Metal vs El Hijo del Santo, October 29 1993 National Parejas: Atlantis/Angel Azteca vs El Dandy/El Texano, March 31 1989 National Trios: Los Arqueros del Espacio vs Los Thundercats, August 17 1990
  13. Arena Coliseo Guadalajara in the early 1990s reused a lot of older, somewhat famous gimmicks. They had updated versions of Los Gemelos Diablo, El Jalisco, Torbellino Negro and probably plenty of others. The Ciclon Mackey in this match is probably one such character, as the original wrestled in the 1930s and supposedly hailed from Ireland, whereas this one does not appear to be in his eighties or nineties and is called a local by the announcers. With four guys I knew were good and one who'd been fine in the few matches I'd seen from him, it was Mackey, who I knew nothing of and lacks even a Luchawiki page, who I guessed might be a weak link in this. Instead this was a match that was about him and he made it count. He beat the hell of out his fellow Ciclon with some of the best headbutts I've ever seen as rudo offense, and then when it was time to turn the tables he was up for some big bumps in return. The star of the match was Ramirez, though. I know he was featured in a big feud with Felino around this time, but talk about an underused talent. His selling consisted of these amazing contortions, both on his bumps and while writhing around on the mat, that I doubt anyone could match except possibly Emilio Charles. It turned a simple head to the turnbuckle spot into a devastating blow. Later on he gave everything back, actually went further than Mackey did, throwing a row of chairs on him and smashing the man's face into the ringpost. In the third fall they slugged it out before dropping to their knees to exchange headbutts. I watched pretty much all of the Ramirez vs Felino stuff from 1993 and I can tell you that nothing that awesome happened in any of those matches. Only Javier Cruz managed to tap into this side of Ciclon Ramirez in Arena Mexico. He probably was best suited for small arena brawls like this, but was too talented for that and ended up getting signed by a company that ensured that fans decades later would get to know who he was. Fiera contributed some crazy bumps that he didn't really need to do on a show like this in a match that wasn't even about him, and Espectro had maybe my favorite sell of a quebradora ever. It's interesting to me that this went back to back with a bloody rudos vs rudos match that had a lot of the same elements, like guys picking up the chairs. You'd think the booker wouldn't want that, because then the crowd wouldn't react as strongly for the main event, but it didn't stop the fans in the front row from giddily offering their seats as a potential landing spot for Mackey. I know Ciclon Ramirez is a bit of a cult figure, so his fans might be pleased to know that this was actually part of an extended feud between the two Ciclones, and a rare chance to see Ramirez as a central figure in anything outside of the neverending Felino feud. They were in six mans on the two shows after this, but either that was it or the final showdown wasn't on TV. Even the Youtube comments (well, one Youtube comment) wondered where the blowoff was. Oh well. Ciclon doesn't fly, and I can't imagine anyone getting tired of watching that man do his dive, but after a fight like that I didn't even feel cheated.
  14. This got four stars from whatever kind of crazy person rated Arena Coliseo Guadalajara matches back in 1992. Knowing nothing of any of these six men I expected some kind of crazy flying display with everyone wanting the match to steal the show. It was not that. Poseidon is not a tecnico with a flashy costume, he is just some guy. He's got a black singlet on and he blasts people with elbows and digs his foot into the torn eyehole of his opponent's mask. La Araña Atomica was a Spiderman ripoff long ago (or he might have been the son of the Spiderman ripoff actually) but in 1992 he was dropping chairs on Torbellino Negro. This was rudos vs rudos with blood, a DQ for some kind of metal spike, and nonstop violence up until the end from a bunch of guys I'd never seen before. It wasn't the most focused match, because there wasn't one major matchup, so you didn't have one specific guy or pairing to pay attention to, but they compensated by having something interesting/violent on screen at all times. I didn't like them finishing with dives, though. Not very befitting of rudos vs rudos. To whatever moderator approves these, I guessed with the formatting of the Gemelos' names, but I don't know what they were individually called. The date could be wrong too, as this supposedly aired on a Wednesday, September 2 1992 was a Wednesday, and wrestling shows didn't usually air live or a full week behind, but I figured I'd just stick with the luchadb date.