Slasher

I hope Taker cuts a promo tonight explaining he came back to get revenge for Brock breaking his younger brother's ankle last week I feel like that's an even worse route to go. I mean the last time they were REALLY connected was Undertaker's last full time run which ended in him losing a Buried Alive match to Kane after a really long feud. The simplest rationale he can use is that he was willing to let things go. He was beaten fair and square and he has no problem with it. But he got tired of Heyman constantly chirping about ending the streak, as he is still bringing that shit up a year and a half. So he's looking to shut him up and prove the match wasn't all what Heyman thinks it was and that he CAN beat Brock.

I am really late to comment on this but- I sometimes go to a forum called Comic Vine,:and they have a subforum where people talk about who wins in a fight between superheroes or anime characters or any other fictional characters. Lately there has been an increase in fights featuring John Cena...and in most of them he wins. This is against the likes of Superman. Rather silly but it tells you everything about the perception of the guy.

Yeah if you are looking to be a main eventer, you're gonna have to...y'know, talk. Even Brock Lesnar in his first run had to talk for himself especially as a babyface. He was terrible but there ya go. Putting Cesaro back with Colter would be taking him 10 steps backwards in his development. What they really should have been doing is make him a man of very few words. Let his opponents carry the bulk of the verbal segments and have him be as straightforward and brief as possible...then back it up with these feats of strength and athleticism in matches.

Except she has always made it clear she prefers the soap opera aspect of wrestling-the drama of storylines. She is the one who hires the Hollywood writers and she is the one who tends to try to steer their vision with that element. It probably all started in 2000 when her love triangle storyline was such a big hit. She has chased that ever since, hoping to recapture the lightning in the bottle. This is why I am not entirely sold on the idea the presentation would be so different under Hunter and herself than what we have had all these years to date. And she is going to be the owner, not Hunter. I wouldn't be surprised if when Daddy passes away she kept the show largely unchanged out of tribute to him. The only thing that would be different maybe is the way things are shot and presented because of no Dunn around to drag the production staff down. edit: this was a response to sek69.

I never knew Sasha Banks was Snoop Dogg's cousin. Bet that comes in handy somewhere down the road when the WWE needs a celeb.

Also I was thinking about Cesaro and Kidd earlier, how awkward it would have been if Cesaro continues to kill it and then when Kidd comes back, he's asked to go back to the team and how that could affect Cesaro's morale. But if they are high on Kidd as well, it might work as two buddies who chases their own singles dreams and occasionally teamed up.

Not really the place for that but nah Natalie Figueroa knows she is a heel. She knows no one likes her. Its just that she thinks she knows whats best for business...so yeah she's Steph.

You might be right but for some reason I am having images in my head of Undertaker really struggling to follow orders, as if his free will was intact. That would go against the mind control idea but who the hell knows with them.

Is this really the beginning of a legitimate push for Cesaro? I don't wanna get my hopes up but that would be awesome if that was the case.

Was it really mind control? My memory of that storyline is fuzzy but I thought it was just a blackmail type situation? Heyman was threatening to destroy the urn, so Taker submits to keep the urn intact, I thought? Like how the Big Show had to serve as Stephanie's personal attack dog because she held his house and security over him? Anyways it definitely was weird to see the Dudley Boys order the freaking Undertaker around.

Eh I like the idea that Shawn was so consumed with beating the Undertaker and ending the streak that he would put his career on the line without blinking. It was so...main event peak era Shawn. What better than sending the reformed guy who had made his singles career on being an unrepentant douchey asshole out with a gamble gone wrong borne out of unrepentant douche assholeness? I don't recall the Flair retirement angle so much beyond that Vince had decreed that if he lost a match he was to be forced to retire, so I don't know how they arrived at his friend Shawn to be the guy tasked with taking out Old Yeller but I assume it wasn't as good a storyline as it probably could have been.

Yeah I am a massive tool. Disregard. It had nothing to do with anything either anyways.

Fair enough but not really the point. Brock's heat was largely unchanged. He was still massively respected and he is massively respected after.

Didn't the guy say he doesn't even own a tv? How is he following along? Reports from his wife?

Well the last time it happened they were lucky that there was a couple thousand extra fans from across the world that they can absorb both at the same time. Not sure if that will work in August in New York during Summerslam weekend. You act like RoH was innocently booking shows in SF and NY because they just want to do their own thing only to have the evil WWE swoop in and put shows in the same cities to show them who the boss is. The reality is RoH (smartly so) tried to capitalize on the massive growth of wrestling fans who will happen to be in the area for the weekend for WWE shows. RoH isn't totally innocent in engaging in this practice. There's nothing wrong with it but they are clearly piggybacking off WWE here. The WWE has the same right to piggybacking using NXT. Too fucking bad if its the same night as RoH's.

I no longer think the idea of retiring someone to get someone over works anymore. I mean, the fans nowadays are just into the shows. They have their favorites and all but there isn't that connection that used to exist between a worker and the crowd in the totality of their careers. Yeah we follow guys from the indies and we get excited when the WWE signs them up and puts them on television but it's no longer a situation where we follow them emotionally like people do sports stars of their local teams. Now it is just about going to the shows and being taken in by the in ring action and the talents of the wrestlers. Look at the Brock/Streak thing. He is a babyface because he is a killer talent even though he had Heyman tout the accomplishment in every single promo from that night on to just as recently as last Monday. Obviously Brock is a talent that didn't need a rub from ending the streak but the fans weren't upset because he ended it. They were upset because it was ended, period. Almost none of it transferred to Brock really outside annoyance of being constantly reminded of it. I think the same thing would happen to a retirement match. People would just go in to have fun and enjoy the last match of the guy's career which would obviously in theory provide the best output by both wrestlers to honor the retiring guy in a better than average (for the retiring guy at least) match. They might get upset they won't see the guy anymore but they know its all fake. The guy told the company he's done and probably got to pick his last opponent...and they play along.

Obviously. I am just disputing the "reports", if they are really claiming it being the Summerslam main event. Ever since Rollins walked out of Mania with the belt he was pencilled in Summerslam to be part of the title match in some form (first as a triple threat with Reigns in the mix and then more recently vs Lesnar straight up). Like I said, it is too late to try to heat up a HHH vs Rollins match with the show only a month away. Triple H has too much ego to just throw himself in a scenario like that. If the match was going to happen this year, Summerslam is probably where it is born in an angle of some kind to be played out at Survivor Series or Royal Rumble. But I do get your sentiment.

What reports?There was talk that he wanted to get himself into the main event by facing Rollins. Assuming the main event is the title match, I doubt that is where Triple H would face Rollins. If it happened, it would be a non title match just underneath the main event which would then feature Lesnar as the champ defending. Triple H is self centered but he's not an idiot. Come on now. After what he's done as an in-ring competitor starting from Mania 30 onward, he deserves little bit of a benefit of the doubt here. This is all assuming it is even true that the match would happen which I don't buy either. Whatever his issue with Rollins would be hasn't been revealed yet and they shouldn't bother heating that match up with 5 week build.

Obviously Dana would agree to it if the WWE helps engineer the first ever UFC Tag Team fight. Lesnar and Punk vs Mir and McGregor. Kick off Punk's MMA career on a high note even if the fight consists of Lesnar mauling both opponents while Punk does shadow kicks off to the side for the crowd.

What the heck are you doing working a 40 hour shift? Are you in the medical field?

If anything it seems like everyone in wrestling are people portraying characters....some more realistic or closer to home than others. But Cena? It is like he is portraying a person portraying a character. It is a mind fuck sometimes.

I am not saying he wasn't getting over or wasn't connecting. I am saying he would have walked away with no regrets free and clear to be a family man. You don't have to wait until the fans tire of you to retire. Look at CM Punk. He was still over and was still one of the more popular wrestlers on the roster...and he walked away. In fact, Owen was at odds with the creative team in his last year or so. They resorted to fucking with him by trying to book romantic angles involving him and him refusing or resisting their ideas. This is why the Blue Blazer stuff happened. They wanted to dump on him with that gimmick, but being the pro he was and being so talented, he got it over enough they decided to give him a sincere push with it. I have no doubt that the very first opportunity he would have had after that, he would walk. But alas...we know what happened. He just wasn't happy with being in wrestling anymore. But again, he was such a good pro he didn't let that bleed over into his work. That is why I doubt that he would be a 49 year old recent retiree. If anything the best I would have expected is a bit more physically active version of Bret's role. He might have reappeared again in like 2008 after 6 or 8 years away, to do a short term angle here and there, for nostalgia's sake, for fun, and nothing more. We weren't going to talk about the cool Owen/Eddy series from 2005 because he would have already been long gone by then IMO.

It is true he puts his fans above all else, but again, it really feels like he does it because they drive HIM (which goes back to it being all about himself). It isn't that he is selfishly and purposefully heelishly vacuuming up the support of his fans to motivate him, but it is a nice added perk for him and he knows it. Hustle, Loyalty and Respect is his credo...as is Never Give Up. He uses those things in a rather self-centered way. It isn't ever that he wants to pass those things on to other wrestlers. He doesn't care about them. He is a living cartoon...an Aesop's Fable come to life for the fans...all for his own benefit. You aren't wrong in what you are saying but I don't think placing an utmost premium on the fans' desires and having his own desires are mutually exclusive. The fans' desires feed in his own. He wants to be the living superhero in his own fantasy. And you can't be one without the world putting you up on a pedestal. This is part of why he would never turn heel (at least so far). It doesn't get him what he wants. People assume to truly get what you want in your own career and to be the man, you have to step over the broken bodies that lay in your path...but that isn't where Cena wants to go. He has always been a champion. He has always been the man. His desire is to be the SUPERHERO. It is truly a noble ambition and that is why he is the franchise babyface ace...but at the heart of it, deeply tucked away somewhere in his core...he's a selfish bastard who thrives on the attention he gets and will "inadvertently" step over people to get there. He doesn't want to admit to the fans he can be the heel. In that process he is actively trolling people...as if he is above it and above our base desires for him. Pretty smart fella if you ask me and probably one of the most interesting characters ever in any storytelling medium if you think about it.

According to her wiki, her father was a Christian missionary...so it probably isn't him.

Jimmy Redman, I said this in the other thread too but I'll throw it in here too since you brought it up and I am curious as to your thoughts to this- What Cena did on Raw-it actually fits his character if you think about him in the larger arc of his career. It wasn't about him not being apologetic because he is a tired old man who needs a walk in the park kinda night. It has been brought up in Cena threads that he has always wrestled an internal struggle in his matches. If we are going by that, this means he is a self-centered guy. Not in a heelish fashion (although obviously there are times where his self-centeredness puts him in position where he looks heelish...like last Monday), but in a "I am thinking of myself all the times" way. He wants to represent well for his fans and his people and his own beliefs because its what is best for him. Cena is a guy who loves wrestling because its an outlet for him to do what he wants to do. He does the charities because that is what is good for John Cena (by the way he was a finalist in this year's sports humanitarian of the year award presented by ESPN, won by Tamika Catchings). Everything he does is about John Cena if you think about it. This is why it looks awkward when he pretends to care about other people. Look at the times where he gives other guys props like Daniel Bryan or CM Punk or when he saves Zack Ryder from beatdowns or when he does the show of respect to his honorable opponents. It looks like he is getting a tooth pulled out. It isn't what he really wants to do but it is something he is beholden to as a result of the character that the John Cena character has built up and come to lean on through his "controversial" career. He doesn't actually give a fuck about anybody really. That shines through deliciously in small glimpses like last Monday. It wasn't about being tired. It was about getting to take advantage of actually doing what he really wants to do (the true dickhead personality that he has hidden) while being the John Cena character. This is why some people like myself thinks he is one of the best heels the WWE has and have had for years now...all the while being their franchise babyface. In fact...El-P has made me realize Cena is actually the WWE's Lance Armstrong. I don't mean the doping stuff (although...that is a probability too). I mean in how he has created an empire based on a character that isn't even really that real.