highflyflow

The former, I was directly quoting @El McKell's post. To be clear, I understand that plenty of people love this stuff, but I really don't have much use for a deeply flawed wrestler perpetuating a deeply flawed style and being considered the best of the bunch in one of the weaker decades for wrestling in recent memory.

What’s the use of being the absolute best at a style that’s amongst the most aggravating in wrestling today?

A lot of talk revolving around this project since 2014 has been about "great match theory", or how much one values great matches in the context of this discussion. I certainly value great matches a lot, but I've been thinking about this for a while and, to me, there's just more to being one of the 100 greatest wrestlers of all time than having great matches. I've been thinking about John Cena's dud of a retirement run this year, and while one could definitely hand-wave it as insignificant in the vast scope of his career, to me it really is significant. For one, he's been in positions of prominence all year, and failed spectacularly, but for two it's how he's failed that reflects on him as a potential great. Additionally, something like the report that he's pushed for his retirement match to open SNME this weekend (which could absolutely be bullshit, to be fair) is something I also hold against him, as someone in his position of power should understand that he'd be cutting the nuts off all the younger, less over talent than him that have to follow the match the company's been building to for a calendar year. But moving moreso into explicit criteria, I value the things that make a wrestler stand out in my head. How they walk to the ring, how they take to being a babyface or heel, how they approach different kinds of matches, their attention to detail, the way they structure matches, etc. It's not exactly a Matt D-esque holistic view of wrestling, but it leans more in that direction than staring at how many 4+ star matches they have in my spreadsheet.

I like Eddie in early 2010s PWG, but not nearly enough to consider him for a list like this

His title match vs. Higuchi might be my MOTY, I think it’s that good. Hell, as far as this topic goes, Higuchi should be getting good buzz given how great he’s been especially in the 2020s, but I’m not optimistic about that. There’s always 2036, I guess

I’ll have Panther in my top 50. He’s been one of the best wrestlers in the world, in the best promotion in the world, for at least two years now, in his 60s. In a similar vein, does Akiyama climb into the teens this time around? He’s demonstrably added to his case in the last ten years

In 2016, wrestlers like Shinsuke Nakamura, Hiroshi Tanahashi, CM Punk, and Bryan Danielson all made it on the top 100 list based predominantly on their work in the ten years since the Smarkschoice poll. Who do you think will be the biggest benefactor of footage from the last 10 years in the 2026 list? Mostly asking for wrestlers that weren't on the list last time, but you think have a good chance at being on next year.

I think the Tamura point is interesting, because while there isn't really a traditional heel/face divide in shoot-style, I do think there are angles by which you can see him as the protagonist and antagonist of matches (for instance, for the case of the latter, I think of his 97-99 matches with Kohsaka and Yamamoto). Anyway, as far as wrestlers that I love both as a face and heel (or tecnico and rudo, for the luchadors): Danielson, Funk, Flair, Kawada, Austin, Panther, Styles, Tanahashi, Satanico, Piper, Bret, Otani, Punk, Windham, Savage, Zbyszko, Akiyama, Moxley, Christian, Hokuto. I'm sure there are plenty I'm forgetting, and I know someone like Buddy Rose is missing simply because I haven't seen his babyface work yet.

GOAT Contenders (all wrestlers I think I could realistically see voting at #1; doesn't necessarily mean they will be my 1-10): Aja Kong Bryan Danielon El Hijo del Santo Genichiro Tenryu Kenta Kobashi Mitsuharu Misawa Ric Flair Shinya Hashimoto Terry Funk Yoshiaki Fujiwara Wrestlers who could potentially crack my top 10: AJ Styles Akira Hokuto Buddy Rose Chigusa Nagayo Devil Masami El Satanico Hiroshi Tanahashi Jaguar Yokota Jumbo Tsuruta Jun Akiyama Jushin Liger Kiyoshi Tamura Negro Casas Nick Bockwinkel Rey Mysterio Jr. Stan Hansen Tatsumi Fujinami Toshiaki Kawada Vader Yuki Ishikawa

Is that really such a wild take? It got a #1 vote in the GME poll this year, and landed in the top 200 overall.

Honestly did not expect this thread to be so negative post-2016. It's interesting, because on other corners of the internet, I've seen Punk talked up as a legitimate #1 contender or at bare minimum top 10, and that just hasn't seemed to translate to this thread. I wonder if those people will end up submitting a ballot next year, and how that'll affect his ranking on the overall list. Anyway, Punk will make my list, somewhere between 40-75, for all the reasons (both positive and negative) listed here. Where do people stand on CM Punk, post-AEW and in the midst of his second WWE stint? Has his comeback work helped or hurt his case to you? I love a lot of his AEW run, especially the Last Dance 2023 stuff up to and including the final Joe match, but I'm mostly ambivalent to the current WWE work.

Save Fujiwara, Tamura will be my highest ranked shoot-stylist. Unbelievable combination of athleticism and skill, and brings a certain character that's so easy for me to connect with in these shoot style matches, whether it be the cocky underdog in Takada's UWFi, the prodigy in the first year in RINGS, or the established ace against underdogs like Yamamoto in those peak 97-99 years. Unreal how good he looks early in his career, too; I think the 1992 Yoji Anjo match is a legitimate classic, and I wouldn't be mad if someone said that wasn't even his best work in UWFi. Top 20 contender

In an ideal world, Aja is at least top 15 on the overall list next year. I don't expect to see it, but I do expect her to be even higher than she was in 2016, and I suppose that's a victory in its own right.

Funnily, I think 2003 might be my answer. Same opponents as 2002 and about the same level of quality of matches but stretched out over a full year, plus the Brock match in December.

What's the best individual year of Rey's career?