Matt D

I obviously feel very strongly about Demolition, though there are really just all sorts of strange nostalgic backlash there. Do people crap on John Nord? I think Craig Pittman was more lost in the 1995 shuffle than anything else. Okay, I've got one. I think there's a general consensus that Hercules Hernandez really wasn't any good later in his career that I would contest. He had a number of pretty good singles matches in 91 on MSG cards and PTW and his work with Roma was pretty good. If nothing else, he was doing the coolest inverted atomic drop in the world then.

Dave gushing about his first live exposure to UWF in the January 85 Observer is really fascinating stuff. I was going to put up some excerpts but I'm not even sure what to pick. A lot of talk about not knowing the meaning of the word "selling," no rest holds, no working the crowd, the extreme realism, being as close to a shoot as one could get. Okay, I'll go with this, re the Super Tiger vs Yoshiaki Fujiwara match: "One of the reasons I enjoy wrestling is that I can see all the visual violence and never have to deal with the consequences (brain damage, permanent injuries) as in boxing."

The Edge/Punk trade was brutal. They let Kane sweep Undertaker something like three PPVs in a row and he had a ton of momentum. Then came Edge.

Was it the move to Syfy that hurt Smackdown or losing Christian, Matt Hardy, Gallows and Punk within the span of a couple of months (while only having Rey on and off)?

I was really into WWECW from Feb 09 to Feb 10 but that's obviously gone. NXT has had some of the most entertaining moments in US Wrestling over the last few years but it's had just as many unwatchable ones. And most of the entertaining moments are along the lines of satire or trainwrecks. The biggest story of the year to me as a fan is the sheer ease of access in watching old YEARS worth of wrestling online. So I too am looking backwards.

If Helms wasn't totally and utterly broken down in 09 he could have been over HUGE with the much younger audience. He could have been a merchandising machine second only to Rey. As it was, he was in slow motion and had that weird grim and gritty version of the costume.

Since I was looking at it, the 84 Yearbook (Jan. 85) issue of the observer was really down on WWF expansion, saying that WWF were retrenching, a lot of the guys they had brought in (re: Freebirds, for instance) had already left, and they had basically failed save for hurting the drawing power of some other organizations (like the AWA). I'm looking forward to seeing things a few months later. Also re: Dave in the Wrestler of the year voting: "If the WWF had lost Hulk for whatever reason, whonever(sic) his replacement would have been could do every bit as well at the gate."

It was definitely discussed at the time. In the Jan 85 WON, when mentioning how crummy Hogan was in the ring Mr. Mike immediately followed with "It's not all his fault. Consider his schedule. It would make Ric Flair wince."

People wildly underestimate Gorilla Monsoon's ability to make them moderately enjoyable.

Not 96, but I saw Malenko/Benoit vs Guerrero/Mr. JL from late 95 recently and it wasn't a match at all. It was just a spectacle. In 95 I would have loved it, of course, but it was just frustrating to watch now. Also, I found it really funny for some reason that Colt Cabana didn't know who Sato was when Waltman was trying to explain that Hakushi had a manager during Cabana's podcast.

It's interesting to see Dave sour on Hogan in 84. For the first few months of the reign he'll be sure to note that Hogan's matches, while short, had the best "action" on the WWF cards. I think it was the Studd feud that did it. By the yearbook in January, when summing up, he's ... well.. "For the most part, Hogan's title reign has been a disappointment. He drew tremendously well for the first few months as a champion in the Northeast. In other parts of the country, his drawing power wasn't that noticable from the beginning. Things got worse as the year progressed as his run was ragged by his travel schedule and began to talk like he wanted out. His matches were the subject of the most criticism. Closely scrutinized as champion, it became evident he was severely lacking in the two areas most World champs are noted for, stamina and wrestling ability. Every match looked like a repeat performance. Hogan would get kicked around, bleed, then comes the infamous leg drop out of nowhere and it's over, usually in less than 10:00." He then restates that Hogan's the most popular wrestler in the world and talks about how that impacts his ego. Also interesting, he says that, in general, houses were higher all around the country in 83 than in 84.

Re: Bagwell/Scorpio, it was a fun combination. You can't, even for a moment, fail to mention just how over Scorpio was with the Center Stage crowd. It was an Impact Zone type situation where much of the crowd were the same people every week and they didn't represent the majority of the WCW fanbase (which is fun later in the year when Ron Simmons hits Clashes/PPVs and tries to do the same sort of hand motions and chants that he usually was super over with and the crowd only half responds). Basically, so far as I can tell, Watts mobilized a black audience with the Ron Simmons push and it made for a really hot crowd. Bagwell seemed out of place dancing to Scorpio's music (And he had the EVERYBODY, HERE COMES 2 COLD SCORPIO! theme too). Granted, he was way more natural than the Cole Twins when they came out to dance to it after every match over a few week period. (The Cole Twins were super over too and I think it was by association). They were a great team, though, because the crowd was so behind Scorpio and he had great hot tag offense. Bagwell made for a good face in peril and there were decent heel tag teams for them to go up against who knew how to ramp up the heat for the tag. And Bagwell's Fisherman's suplex is highly underrated.

Presumably, if they really wanted to do something with him, that's when he should have gotten/chased (again) the IC belt, no?

I could be mistaken but, in my mind, a lot of the Henry argument in general was that after years of not quite getting it, somewhere between 7 and 10 years ago he really figured out how to "play his role" successfully, i.e. when and how much to sell, how to use his size effectively, what sort of pacing to utilize, when to allow comebacks/when to cutoff comebacks, how to contribute to a logical and coherent story in the ring. Basically what to do when and why and even how. You can decide for yourself how Angle factors in with those elements in mind or if you care about a number of those elements in the first place.

Wait, I thought GSP was going for the Goldberg gimmick with how many rounds he's won in a row.

I swear there was another best of Starcade tape later on ( I assume the 83-87 one was the double tape) that I first saw the dog collar match on in the late 90s. It was clipped, but you got the idea.

What was the pilot that Hogan had in 84? There was talk that if it made it then he could be as big as Mr. T and could leave wrestling behind.

Dave Re: Bock in 84's summer list. "51. NICK BOCKWINKEL (well experienced and for his age is in phenomenal condition. Many would say I'm rating him too low, but considering the type of wrestling I enjoy, for a guy nick's age to be even this high is a tribute.)" For what it's worth, he ranked Hennig 40 and yes called him their best worker and said it was a shame he was just wrestling prelims.

A quick glance shows two 1984 Hogan/Valentine matches easily available online, one apparently being the MSG match from 7/23.

They really do need to bring back the nicknames in the actual ring names. Dashing Cody Rhodes works surprisingly well.

I've got my own opinions about hogan in the 80s, but given the title of the note, I will say that Meltzer in early-mid 84 kept calling Hogan's matches the best "action" on the WWF house shows like it was a no brainer to say as much. I'm not sure when he changed his tune. Well, that's so long as he was in there with someone other than Studd, let me add. It's also a testament to the poor undercards, but still worth noting.

From what I've read, Dave presented the Meadowlands show as a surefire thing. It was the great hope with a can't miss card, no matter the fact all they had was Spanish language TV and it was to be the first strike into Vince's territory. I think Flair having the title was almost as big a deal as his personality or his work in the ring. On the other hand, my gut says that Hogan with the WWF title wasn't a big deal at all.

I'm a little surprised that when Vince picked up Georgia Championship Wrestling and then ran the Omni he didn't make more of an effort to pick up a headliner there. I doubt he could have gotten Bob or Brad Armstrong for obvious reasons and Masked Superstar had just left but he could have picked up Bundy, Roberts or Ron Garvin earlier, I imagine. Another thing I'd be interested in seeing analysis on is just how effective the Road Warriors were as a draw vs Hogan in 84.

Reading this stuff, it's just amazing to me how heated the war was. I was 3 in 84 and didn't get into wrestling until 90 or so, but Vince's expansion is just way more interesting to me than the Monday Night Wars that I did live through. The expansion was a battle on a dozen fronts. Vince had to be in a coke filled manic rush 20 hours a day just to manage everything that he did. For example, the planning of the Georgia/Crockett Meadowlands Supershow leading Vince to get the Briscos to sell their shares in Georgia or all the anti-trust stuff. It all seems like it happened so quickly. I know there's the Sex, Lies, and Headlocks book. Does it cover this era well? I want to read more and I feel like there aren't many books on the expansion.