Matt D

Re: Bagwell/Scorpio, it was a fun combination. You can't, even for a moment, fail to mention just how over Scorpio was with the Center Stage crowd. It was an Impact Zone type situation where much of the crowd were the same people every week and they didn't represent the majority of the WCW fanbase (which is fun later in the year when Ron Simmons hits Clashes/PPVs and tries to do the same sort of hand motions and chants that he usually was super over with and the crowd only half responds). Basically, so far as I can tell, Watts mobilized a black audience with the Ron Simmons push and it made for a really hot crowd. Bagwell seemed out of place dancing to Scorpio's music (And he had the EVERYBODY, HERE COMES 2 COLD SCORPIO! theme too). Granted, he was way more natural than the Cole Twins when they came out to dance to it after every match over a few week period. (The Cole Twins were super over too and I think it was by association). They were a great team, though, because the crowd was so behind Scorpio and he had great hot tag offense. Bagwell made for a good face in peril and there were decent heel tag teams for them to go up against who knew how to ramp up the heat for the tag. And Bagwell's Fisherman's suplex is highly underrated.

Presumably, if they really wanted to do something with him, that's when he should have gotten/chased (again) the IC belt, no?

I could be mistaken but, in my mind, a lot of the Henry argument in general was that after years of not quite getting it, somewhere between 7 and 10 years ago he really figured out how to "play his role" successfully, i.e. when and how much to sell, how to use his size effectively, what sort of pacing to utilize, when to allow comebacks/when to cutoff comebacks, how to contribute to a logical and coherent story in the ring. Basically what to do when and why and even how. You can decide for yourself how Angle factors in with those elements in mind or if you care about a number of those elements in the first place.

Wait, I thought GSP was going for the Goldberg gimmick with how many rounds he's won in a row.

I swear there was another best of Starcade tape later on ( I assume the 83-87 one was the double tape) that I first saw the dog collar match on in the late 90s. It was clipped, but you got the idea.

What was the pilot that Hogan had in 84? There was talk that if it made it then he could be as big as Mr. T and could leave wrestling behind.

Dave Re: Bock in 84's summer list. "51. NICK BOCKWINKEL (well experienced and for his age is in phenomenal condition. Many would say I'm rating him too low, but considering the type of wrestling I enjoy, for a guy nick's age to be even this high is a tribute.)" For what it's worth, he ranked Hennig 40 and yes called him their best worker and said it was a shame he was just wrestling prelims.

A quick glance shows two 1984 Hogan/Valentine matches easily available online, one apparently being the MSG match from 7/23.

They really do need to bring back the nicknames in the actual ring names. Dashing Cody Rhodes works surprisingly well.

I've got my own opinions about hogan in the 80s, but given the title of the note, I will say that Meltzer in early-mid 84 kept calling Hogan's matches the best "action" on the WWF house shows like it was a no brainer to say as much. I'm not sure when he changed his tune. Well, that's so long as he was in there with someone other than Studd, let me add. It's also a testament to the poor undercards, but still worth noting.

From what I've read, Dave presented the Meadowlands show as a surefire thing. It was the great hope with a can't miss card, no matter the fact all they had was Spanish language TV and it was to be the first strike into Vince's territory. I think Flair having the title was almost as big a deal as his personality or his work in the ring. On the other hand, my gut says that Hogan with the WWF title wasn't a big deal at all.

I'm a little surprised that when Vince picked up Georgia Championship Wrestling and then ran the Omni he didn't make more of an effort to pick up a headliner there. I doubt he could have gotten Bob or Brad Armstrong for obvious reasons and Masked Superstar had just left but he could have picked up Bundy, Roberts or Ron Garvin earlier, I imagine. Another thing I'd be interested in seeing analysis on is just how effective the Road Warriors were as a draw vs Hogan in 84.

Reading this stuff, it's just amazing to me how heated the war was. I was 3 in 84 and didn't get into wrestling until 90 or so, but Vince's expansion is just way more interesting to me than the Monday Night Wars that I did live through. The expansion was a battle on a dozen fronts. Vince had to be in a coke filled manic rush 20 hours a day just to manage everything that he did. For example, the planning of the Georgia/Crockett Meadowlands Supershow leading Vince to get the Briscos to sell their shares in Georgia or all the anti-trust stuff. It all seems like it happened so quickly. I know there's the Sex, Lies, and Headlocks book. Does it cover this era well? I want to read more and I feel like there aren't many books on the expansion.

One last thing: What was up with Andre having part ownership of the Montreal promotion for a while? I've never heard anything about that before.

In the WON I read, there was a lot of talk about.. Actually, let me take a look at what Dave said. Apparently, Vince tried to buy the Maple Leaf TV time (like he had elsewhere). He'd already run shows in Kingston. He cited Piper, Snuka, Slaughter and Santana as already having huge Toronto following, for Vince's invasion. He thought Tunney would go into Buffalo and Rochester if Vince invaded, as Frank Tunney had promoted there successfully before he died. Most interesting quote is what he ended the paragraph with: "Actually, McMahon's raids of Mid Atlantic talent may be more beneficial to him in Toronto than Greensboro."

So far, the other interesting things I've come across are how Southwest is really portrayed as ECW (or worse), as a place where they thrive on blood and on gimmick matches (a Texas Brawl: a battle royal/street fight with weapons), and how threatened Toronto and Tunney seemed by Vince, which... well, I am really curious how that turned out like it did.

The sort of thing that brought him to the game: Dave in the May 84 Observer after going over each territory and Vince's invasion: "... The inevitable end, as I've stated before is that in a few years, maybe two years, maybe five, there will be just a few promotions left. They will all run basically major cities. Eventually small minor league groups will pop up from time-to-time, some will make some money in small wrestling-starved towns, most won't. The question to be answered here is where wrestling's new blood comes from. Who was the last person WWF actually developed into a star? If promotions like Oregon and Memphis fail, the business will be much worse off in the long run..." Also in the same WON "... The Memphis fans are used to a completely different brand of wrestling than the rest of us. It's not really wrestling, it's more wrestling with a comedy flair. For the most part I've felt the same way about Memphis wrestling as I feel about Indoor Soccer. I love soccer, and indoor soccer is not soccer, but I actually like it better than soccer."

7/86 – 1/89. Definitely more than a year, with him inaugurating the King title as something to be defended and having a main event run with Hogan. But yeah, I get your point.

We talk about formulas (formulae?) a bit now and again, and I've come across one that's undeniable: Barry Windham in early 93 right after he won the NWA title. Every TV match (examples: vs Z-Man, Brad Armstrong, Johnny Gunn, Mike Winner) would go like this. Barry starts out strong using feeling-out leverage stuff. The Face takes over using either mat wrestling or lots of arm drags. Barry takes over on offenses for a minute or two with a few power moves. The face makes a wild comeback getting in a lot of stuff. Barry uses cleverness to dodge a big face move (holding the rope to counter the russian legsweep, moving out of the way of a top rope dive, letting Gunn stun gun himself by moving out of the way, moving out of the way of a corner charge), IMMEDIATE jumping DDT. Pin. I've been watching a ton of 93 WCW and it was a bit striking to see it play out that way in match after match after match.

The thought behind it might have been terrible, but I thought the execution was actually quite funny right until Vince stood up. And then again at the very end. The Daniel Bryan line was especially funny and surprisingly self-aware. It's always bad when Vince gets into excrement though .... Granted, the execution of the Gooker segment is actually pretty amazing too. Mean Gene does such a good job with it that the live crowd goes from being miserable and hateful to actually really enjoying it. It boggled my mind the last time I watched that segment.

To be fair, Sheamus has been pushed steadily since January. He really is due his trademarked WWE depushing so that he doesn't start to think he's bigger than the company. And if I want to keep the pro wrestling internet cliches going, I could say that the fact that he's HHH's training buddy is obviously what's been protecting him up until now!

http://pwchronicle.blogspot.com/2005/11/in...hon-part-1.html I wish we lived in a world where Pro Wrestling Chronicle had gone on for more than the few months it was running. What a great site.

We can certainly look at Heenan with Haku. The Islanders turned heel on the Can-Ams right after Mania III. I don't remember them doing much with Strike Force on TV, but they had to feud with them over that winter, no? Their big feud was with the Bulldogs which was centered around Matilda so it's not exactly a great example. I really love Heenan in the Race/Haku Royal Rumble match. It was good for what it was (especially given Race's physical limitations; he said in his book that Haku, as opposed to someone like Honky, was someone he respected and wanted to drop the crown to), but it also helped in the build towards Mania that year since a lot of the Main Event was centered around who Liz would side with, if anyone. They just didn't do anything with Haku after that. After Duggan, I really can't think of one meaningful feud he had with television support. He was a sidenote in the Piper vs Heenan Family and Bossman vs Heenan Family feuds. He had house show matches with Steamboat throughout 91 but they never built to them in any way. Even with Heenan, they just didn't utilize the guy except for as a gatekeeper.

The fans do seem to go nuts whenever he gives someone (Young, Tarver) an absolute mauling though, which is something I never remember him doing much in years past. I was very surprised at how nuts the crowd went during the Tarver/Cena tag match. Even for little things like when Cena would short-arm the tag. Then they really got into the beatdown after the match. I think it shows that that's the Cena they want to see. That original character from when he first turned face. More "Stone Cold-ish" I guess. Should we start wearing "P.S. Was Right" shirts then?

They never really did go full on face with the Faces of Fear against Hall and Nash, did they? They were in matches with them and the fans got behind them in that context, as one of the only real threats to the Outsiders, but they weren't really booked as monster faces. I wonder if that would have made a difference. Otherwise, I'm not sure who they could have put them with. Jim Mitchell?