goodhelmet Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 Judgment Day star ratings: Mercury & Nitro v. Holly & Haas ***1/4 Carlito v. Big Show * Paul London v. Chavo Guerrero **3/4 Booker T v. Kirt Angle ***1/4 Orlando Jordan v. Heidenreich -* Rey Mysterio v. Eddie Guerrero ***3/4 John Cena v. JBL ****1/4 ECW PPV Notes: ---The PPV has turned into a political fight. Kevin Dunn and Vinnie Mac have the same mentality that they had for WCW and ECW during the botched Invasion angle. They feel it is more important that ECW is owned by Vince than as an independent show using WWE talent. ---There are feelings that nearly everoyone involved felt that using weapons matches on RAW and presenting ECW as a trivial group was counter-productive ---Heyman's concept was to do an ECW reunion show instead of Bischoff's RAW group vs. Heyman's ECW army. In the original plans, Bischoff was to appear on the PPV in part of one match which related to an old ECW storyline and well known feud as opposed to being the focal point. ---Meltz does a great job of dispelling the myths surrounding ECW including bringing lucha libre to the U.S. and how Eddie was never used as a main-eventer at ECW shows. ---There are still 2,500 tickets left for the show. ---Terry Funk officially turned down doing the PPV. He felt at his age, he couldn't do the WWE show and the Shane Douglas show. Funk sent a promo to Jeremy Borash (that will be featured on the "Forever Hardcore" DVD) that is supposed to be one of the strongest of his career. In the promo, he held the WWE contract Vince sent him and told them to shove it. He said Vince was the one who killed ECW and was just making money off the name. He thought about the money Vince offered him (reportedly $10,000), which was more thean the Douglas offer, but he made the decision with his heart and not his pocketbook. ---Mick Foley will appear on the WWE PPV but will not be wrestling. ---There are people who claim to be only working the Douglas show but will appear on the WWE show but want it kept quiet so there is no problem in the Douglas show locker room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bruiser Chong Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 ---The PPV has turned into a political fight. Kevin Dunn and Vinnie Mac have the same mentality that they had for WCW and ECW during the botched Invasion angle. They feel it is more important that ECW is owned by Vince than as an independent show using WWE talent. And this is why the show was a bad idea to begin with. Good to see at least some lessons were learned from the Invasion angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Some Guy Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 ECW PPV Notes: ---The PPV has turned into a political fight. Kevin Dunn and Vinnie Mac have the same mentality that they had for WCW and ECW during the botched Invasion angle. They feel it is more important that ECW is owned by Vince than as an independent show using WWE talent. This is so stupid on so many levels. ---There are feelings that nearly everoyone involved felt that using weapons matches on RAW and presenting ECW as a trivial group was counter-productive These feeling are correct. ---Heyman's concept was to do an ECW reunion show instead of Bischoff's RAW group vs. Heyman's ECW army. In the original plans, Bischoff was to appear on the PPV in part of one match which related to an old ECW storyline and well known feud as opposed to being the focal point. Which feud was that? The Foley anit-hardcore deal? ---Meltz does a great job of dispelling the myths surrounding ECW including bringing lucha libre to the U.S. and how Eddie was never used as a main-eventer at ECW shows. This irritates me to no end; that people claim that Heymen made all the guys who came through ECW stars, despite most of them only being there for a few months. Heymen did a lot of good things and knew good product when he saw it and featured it for as long as he could afford to. I'll give ECW that. He didn't make Benoit, Eddy, Rey, Juvi, and others stars. WCW did. Whether WCW fucked up with those guys is immaterial, they became stars there. ---There are still 2,500 tickets left for the show. How many seats doe the Ballroom have? It can't be too much more than 2,500. ---Terry Funk officially turned down doing the PPV. He felt at his age, he couldn't do the WWE show and the Shane Douglas show. Funk sent a promo to Jeremy Borash (that will be featured on the "Forever Hardcore" DVD) that is supposed to be one of the strongest of his career. In the promo, he held the WWE contract Vince sent him and told them to shove it. He said Vince was the one who killed ECW and was just making money off the name. He thought about the money Vince offered him (reportedly $10,000), which was more thean the Douglas offer, but he made the decision with his heart and not his pocketbook. Funk is overreacting with his anti-Vince shit, as it pertains to ECW. Vince arguably helped ECW as much as he hurt it. If Funk wants to point fingers he should point them at Heymen first and then Bischoff. Douglas was probably only in ECW for as long as he was because neither WWF nor WCW wanted him from 96-mid-99. He is trying to capitalize on Vince trying to capitalize on ECW. WHich is worse? Which is bad? I would say neither. Vince owns ECW and as such has every right to put on a PPV and give a bunch of guys a decent pay day and PPV exposure. ---Mick Foley will appear on the WWE PPV but will not be wrestling. One would think that letting people know this would be on WWE's priority list, seeing as though people are willing to pay money to see him. ---There are people who claim to be only working the Douglas show but will appear on the WWE show but want it kept quiet so there is no problem in the Douglas show locker room. This is silly. Why in the hell would anyone in Douglas' lockerroom have heat with someone for working both shows? God forbid someone get paid. All this shit was so predictable. It was obvious from the get go that they would sabatage their own show so as to not bruise a few egos or guys who don't really deserve to have the egos that they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted May 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 Which feud was that? The Foley anit-hardcore deal? It didn't say. How many seats doe the Ballroom have? It can't be too much more than 2,500. Ok, I may have misread that. Meltz said exactly... The number of tickets sold early was considered disappointing by WWE, but the belief is the show will end up selling out, since therea re only 2,500 tickets available, once they put more and smarter TV emphasis behind it. I read that to mean 2,500 were STILL available but I think he meant that 2,500 were available from the start. Funk is overreacting with his anti-Vince shit, as it pertains to ECW. Wrong, Funk is capitalizing on the disdain ECW fans have for Vince and selling the show he is featured on. NOTHING wrong with that. He is trying to capitalize on Vince trying to capitalize on ECW. WHich is worse? Which is bad? I would say neither. Vince owns ECW and as such has every right to put on a PPV and give a bunch of guys a decent pay day and PPV exposure. Sure, but Shane Douglas is doing the same and also promising the idea of a "tour" so ideally it would be more profitable to do the Douglas show than just a one-shot for Vonce's show... even though Meltz thinks they will do another show if this one is successful. This is silly. Why in the hell would anyone in Douglas' lockerroom have heat with someone for working both shows? God forbid someone get paid. You could say the same thing about Vince not allowing soem of his guys to appear on the Douglas show. I know they are under contract with Vince but God forbid someone actually get paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 Wrong, Funk is capitalizing on the disdain ECW fans have for Vince and selling the show he is featured on. NOTHING wrong with that. Exactly. Funk knows exactly how to see a show. That's all he's doing here. And he could honestly show up at the ECW PPV and I wouldn't be surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Some Guy Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 Funk is overreacting with his anti-Vince shit, as it pertains to ECW. Wrong, Funk is capitalizing on the disdain ECW fans have for Vince and selling the show he is featured on. NOTHING wrong with that. He is trying to capitalize on Vince trying to capitalize on ECW. WHich is worse? Which is bad? I would say neither. Vince owns ECW and as such has every right to put on a PPV and give a bunch of guys a decent pay day and PPV exposure. Sure, but Shane Douglas is doing the same and also promising the idea of a "tour" so ideally it would be more profitable to do the Douglas show than just a one-shot for Vonce's show... even though Meltz thinks they will do another show if this one is successful. I should have been more clear. I meant that Douglas was capitalizing on Vince capitalizing on ECW. Right after it became known that Vince was capitalizing on his ownership of ECW Douglas announced his show. I don't blame him for it, he ahs every right to run that show and I hope that it is successful. Depending on how the reviews come in, I might consider buying the DVD. I doubt Funk would have taken way less money if doesn't really mean what he has said. I think part of it may be trying to seel the show he's on, but why not just do Vince's show, push that, and get paid way more? He may just be trying to drum up publicity for his book, but he no doubt could have gotten more if he played in Vince's yard. This is silly. Why in the hell would anyone in Douglas' lockerroom have heat with someone for working both shows? God forbid someone get paid. You could say the same thing about Vince not allowing soem of his guys to appear on the Douglas show. I know they are under contract with Vince but God forbid someone actually get paid. The differance is that Vince's guys are under exclusive contract to WWE and are getting a guarenteed paycheck every two weeks. I doubt that Ballz Mahoney is, at least not from wrestling. There is a world of difference between most of Vince's guys and the indie workers on Douglas' show when it comes to salary. If the WWE guys really wanted to work that show, then they could have quit (or never signed a contract with WWE in the first place). The fact that no one has quit kind of proves my point about the money situation. The only guys in Douglas' lockerroom who would be pissed about others working Vince's show are those, like Douglas who Vince doesn't want on his. If Vince wanted Shane Douglas or thought he had any worth then Douglas would be stinking up the ring of commentary booth in WWE right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted May 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 Meltz Analysis of Backlash buyrate: ---Preliminary indications show it did app. 280,000 buys (0.5 rating) and will end up topping 300,000 which few "B" shows have over the past few years have done, and will end up ahead of last year's successful Backlash show ---However, the money and marketing effort put into this show was more than any show short of Wrestlemania. Because of this, the show will be less profitable than last year's show. ---Meltz figures that at worst, the HHH-batista rematch would have done no worse than 250,000 buys without all the mainstream advertising and Hogan media work. ---Considering Hogan does not work cheap, Meltz feels that his return can in no way be deemed a success. It will probably be the biggest "B" show of 2005 but when you factor in Hogan's guarantee and percentage deal AND the madvertising campaign, Meltz feels it was a letdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted May 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 The differance is that Vince's guys are under exclusive contract to WWE and are getting a guarenteed paycheck every two weeks. I doubt that Ballz Mahoney is, at least not from wrestling. There is a world of difference between most of Vince's guys and the indie workers on Douglas' show when it comes to salary. If the WWE guys really wanted to work that show, then they could have quit (or never signed a contract with WWE in the first place). The fact that no one has quit kind of proves my point about the money situation. The only guys in Douglas' lockerroom who would be pissed about others working Vince's show are those, like Douglas who Vince doesn't want on his. If Vince wanted Shane Douglas or thought he had any worth then Douglas would be stinking up the ring of commentary booth in WWE right now. I understand all of this but my point is that Vince sits on both sides of the fence. He gives them guaranteed money but then calls them independent contractors. Which is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Some Guy Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 There is a hypocracy there, I will grant that. But Vince has a "legal" document to back his up. Douglas has jealously to back up his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHawk Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 ---The PPV has turned into a political fight. Kevin Dunn and Vinnie Mac have the same mentality that they had for WCW and ECW during the botched Invasion angle. They feel it is more important that ECW is owned by Vince than as an independent show using WWE talent. It doesn't bother me that they're portraying ECW as being owned by Vince, because it at least gives some sort of explanation how ECW can still be around despite being killed off at Survivor Series 2001. Plus, the bankruptcy info is all a matter of public record anyway, so it'd be hard to portray it as anything else. ---There are feelings that nearly everoyone involved felt that using weapons matches on RAW and presenting ECW as a trivial group was counter-productive Agreed, especially since Edge really hasn't done much with tables outside of TLC matches (and generally stayed away from the tables in those matches). ---Heyman's concept was to do an ECW reunion show instead of Bischoff's RAW group vs. Heyman's ECW army. In the original plans, Bischoff was to appear on the PPV in part of one match which related to an old ECW storyline and well known feud as opposed to being the focal point. I'd like to know exactly what the plan was before saying it's a better idea. The number of tickets sold early was considered disappointing by WWE, but the belief is the show will end up selling out, since therea re only 2,500 tickets available, once they put more and smarter TV emphasis behind it. It wouldn't have anything to do with ringside being $400, would it? Hell, I was planning a road trip to NYC for the weekend for this show until I saw it would cost me an entire paycheck just for my ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted June 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 I'd like to know exactly what the plan was before saying it's a better idea. I think the original plan was supposed to be more of a nostalgia trip where we are time-warped back to 1997. It wouldn't have anything to do with ringside being $400, would it? Actually, Meltz mentions the pricy tickets as the main reason it hasn't sold out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 It wouldn't have anything to do with ringside being $400, would it? Actually, Meltz mentions the pricy tickets as the main reason it hasn't sold out. I sure as hell wouldn't go paying that price. I had an opportunity to buy Rolling Stones tickets in advance for $300 last week and turned THAT down. ECW for $400? Nuh-uh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHawk Posted June 3, 2005 Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 I'd like to know exactly what the plan was before saying it's a better idea. I think the original plan was supposed to be more of a nostalgia trip where we are time-warped back to 1997. I meant what the plan was for Bischoff's involvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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