The Beginner's Guide To British Wrestling

[PeteF3]

Even within Peel's own devoted audience there eventually grew a bit of a divide between the DJ and the listener, with Peel's complaints about the 1988 Festive Fifty being filled with "white boys with guitars." I can only imagine that divide was greater in the latter days of WoS/Professional Wrestling.

[ohtani's jacket]

8 hours ago, David Mantell said:

The purists existed (and all three of Kendo, Rocco and Finlay knew how to work purist if need be) and like I said Teenage Boy Wrestling was enough of A Thing to have survived to 2024.  TBW was solely clean sporting matches, there were never really any TBW heels.  Occasionally a promising TBWer would be put up against someone like Johnny Saint and make a good impression getting a consolation fall before going down 2-1 and Saint and the TBWer would shake hands. (See also Danny Collins Vs Tony Stewart further up this page, with an early twenty something Collins now graduated to the role of veteran helping give the rub to the young star.)

Even if it wasn't most fans' preferred tipple, it was considered necessary to have these bouts for the sake of sporting credibility.

In any case,  the existence of TBW didn't in any way assist Greg Dyke in his quest to eliminate all Saturday afternoon wrestling and put something more yuppie-friendly on to make American advertising execs happy to pay for advert spots for expensive cars during those timeslots. Otherwise there would have been a Black Saturday type situation instead of the wholesale pulling of wrestling from ITV (apart from non syndicated 4am weekday screenings of year old WWF tapes that fell below Dyke's radar).

I am still skeptical about how many purists were watching Saturday afternoon wrestling in 1987, though to be fair, I'm skeptical about how many purists there were watching at the height of wrestling's popularity. Nevertheless, I don't think two young rookies having a match on television meant much to anybody. My point from a decade ago, as snarky as it appears, is that this was not the type of thing that was going to keep wrestling on the air. It may have been an acceptable, or even welcomed part, of wrestling in the past when there were plenty of stars around to complement it, but the talent pool and the product was dwindling at the time. It was a slow march towards the end even without the globalization of the WWF. Now I realize you don't see it that way and have championed everything that happened from 1988 onward to the present day as a continuous lineage, and that's fine. However, that's not how I consumed the footage when I went through all of it. You have a much different perspective of it having lived through it week-to-week. I'm just an overseas guy who made comments on it a decade ago. I think we're coming at this from different angles. 

[David Mantell]

13 hours ago, ohtani's jacket said:

You have a much different perspective of it having lived through it week-to-week. I'm just an overseas guy who made comments on it a decade ago. I think we're coming at this from different angles. 

Well yes, I get the context because I lived through it.

And I can safely say that in Britain in 1987 bouts like Bainbridge Vs Clwyd were not considered the problem. Big Daddy tags were considered the problem, if anything was. Obviously for Greg Dyke, any and all wrestling was the problem, including Hulk Hogan.

Purists were out there and their numbers supplemented by people whom Kent Walton made feel kind of guilty about themselves for not being purists.

[PeteF3]

It wasn't the problem, or even part of the problem. But it wasn't the solution, either.

[David Mantell]

36 minutes ago, PeteF3 said:

It wasn't the problem, or even part of the problem. But it wasn't the solution, either.

New young talent was always part of the solution. Everyone across Europe was saying that in the 70s/80s/90s.  See Roger Delaporte's comments in that book on the French Catch thread.  That's why Fin Martin of Powerslam was so keen on Hammerlock in 1993/1994, he wanted to divert young kids away from the Traditional British Wrestling scene in the hope it would kill it off.

The mid/late 80s was a blossom period for teenage whizzkids rookies in the UK. At the time the only two breakout rookies in France were Prince Zefy and Yann Caradec.

There was a few years' gap in the late 90s for young talent. You had Darren Walsh, Tony Stewart, the "three Js" - James Mason, Jason Cross, Justin Hansford/Starr. Then a quiet period for a few years until 2001 when the Hanley crowd- Dean Allmark, Robbie Dynamite (Berzins), Mikey Whiplash (Gilbert), Playboy Johnny Midnight, Kid Cool - all pop up on the scene in the fallout from the dodgy New School "Great British Hardcore" promotion which Hanley Council banned, and the veterans retrained them into Traditional British wrestlers and they became the backbone of All Star in the 2000s and 2010s.

 

[PeteF3]

That's fine, but they don't need to be a major focus on television if they're not ready.

*Fresh* talent is in some ways better than simply young talent. 

[David Mantell]

9 hours ago, PeteF3 said:

That's fine, but they don't need to be a major focus on television if they're not ready.

Whose definition of "not ready" is that?

They had both mastered one specific element of the overall package and could give a good show of that element, in a territory where that element was particularly valued.  They were capable of having a serious sporting bout and impressing with their technical skills.

They served their purpose in that regard. They weren't main eventing, but they weren't an amusement like midget wrestling either. They were a calm section of the overall package that underscored the sporting nature of the overall presentation. Like any other clean match.it provided a blue eye/babyface Utopia which it would be up to the (minority in the UK of) heels to then disrupt, later in the evening.

[David Mantell]

On 10/15/2015 at 2:08 AM, ohtani's jacket said:

Jim Breaks vs. Peter Bainbridge (6/8/88)

 

Breaks hadn't been on TV for two years when he made this random appearance on the stand alone ITV show. He was older and pudgier, and beginning to thin out of top, but petty much the same old Breaks. His job here was to carry 16 year-old Peter Bainbridge the same way he had done Dynamite Kid, Young David, Danny Boy Collins, and probably others too. It started out okay, but for some reason it ended prematurely. It didn't seem as though the editor cropped much out, so I guess Breaks wasn't interested in entering this into the pantheon of great Jim Breaks matches. i'll cut him some slack since it was 1988.

Bainbridge at 16 in the middle of his first title feud with Jim Breaks.  As I mentioned earlier, Bainbridge actually took that European Lightweight title from Breaks a couple of times. Against Clwyd, PB only had to (jointly) put on an exhibition of skill - here he has to take on some psychology as hero to Breaks's villain. He gets the crowd on his side early putting a Breaks Special on Breaks himself, even leading them in a clap as the crowd get excited, selling and getting tortured by Breaks, being the poor boy in trouble against the hated villain, then coming back with a neat pinfall by reversing a standing full nelson and rear body checking Breaks into the ropes then tripping and folding him for the opener and nearly getting a straight second while Breaks is distracted in a row with a young Lee Bamber (a familiar face on more modern clips I've posted here). All the more traditional functions of a blue eye/babyface. Kent Walton sums it up "Bainbridge has learned a heck of a lot about this business since we saw him last year."

Breaks got his heat back by illegally tangling Bainbridge's arm in the ropes to soften it for a Breaks Special equaliser and again (after a desperate defensive burst by Bainbridge) again for a decider and a heat-seeking taunt from Breaks. Other times it was Bainbridge who was successful - he won and lost that title from Breaks on three occasions 1987-1988.  Middle of the bill bout on next was one of Clive Myers and Steve Grey's many clean matches over the years(I think I've alre Ady reviewed one), which underscores what I was saying about the role of clean matches to create a scientific utopia for heels to be the serpents in.

Bainbridge only got one other match in front of ITV cameras and it didn't air - a no contest (possibly another double knockout like with Clwyd) in December 1987 in West Bromwich against Peter Collins, at this point the "College Boy" big brother of Danny Boy, but later a mega heel of the late 90s early 00s as Mr Vain. From what I can see on 1987 posters, PB and PC were quite frequent opponents in 1987.

Bainbridge has been promoting his own shows as South West Wrestling (SWW) in, as the same suggests, the South West of England. He's a bigger burlier guy with a long biker-type beard these days.

 

 

[David Mantell]

Clwyd never got another ITV match but was a staple of Reslo going through the late 80s and early 90s (before splitting his time between heel Gary B Ware and clown Dunk). He was often the blue eyed boy in peril tagging with heavier good guys like Boston Blackie and promoter Orig "El Bandito" Williams against top heels like Finlay or even The Superflies with Saraya (Senior) managing (I've already posted them facing Clwyd and visiting French mega- Bon Flesh Gordon), but here he is taking on Tony Stewart, seen on the last page against Danny Collins and later holder of the British Lightweight title holder and delivered of a strange quasi shoot interview about his training regime involving digging up the sand with a plank of wood.

Quote

Gary Clwyd vs. Tony Stewart (Merthyr, taped 3/29/90)

Hey, Reslo had boy wrestling too! This was better than I expected, but the guy I thought was the better worker did the job. Boo!

"Boy wrestling" was just an accepted staple of the UK and probably the entire European business and remains so today in promotions like Rumble.

 

It's Wales Vs Ireland so Ireland, in the form of Stewart, gets some crowd heat at the start from the partisan Welsh crowd, but still keeps it clean in a nice fast paced little bout. Some excellent folding presses here. Bout gets cut short when Clwyd gets caught by the neck in the ropes. The tape cuts out but presumably Stewart refused the TKO and it was a no contest (which won't make OJ happy) but the two shake hands which makes the crowd happy and ready to forgive Stewart. On other occasions, the two would tag up.

The S4C signal could be easily received in Southern and Eastern Republic of Ireland, so we'll that Orig regularly toured with the stars of Reslo, even beyond 1995 and into the early Noughties with a WWF tribute bill until he took ill and had to retire in about 2002.  No idea what Irish viewers made of the anti-Tony faction in the audience.

 

Quote

 It was just a bad decade for a British worker to mature into a good worker unless they ventured abroad to New Japan or WCW.

Clwyd seems to have been content with his Young Welsh National Hero big fish in small pond status. He clocked up some 14 Reslo appearances. Maybe if the show had continued beyond 1995 he might have replaced Orig himself as top blue eye.

Apparently he had a good long career retiring in 2010.  Bainbridge's last recorded bout was November 1990.

[David Mantell]

Been reading some of @JNLister's essays on his site. I particularly liked this one on the Mountevans Rules.  I'll only post a link for now but if it's OK, John  I'd love to copy and paste it across.

https://johnlisterwrestling.com/british-wrestling-rules-the-fight-network-2007/

[David Mantell]

https://youtu.be/siUCLQLdkC8 Danny Collins Vs Johnny Kidd 1985. I'll write more about this match later when the fault with the forum support files is rectified. Suffice to say it was a technical classic and a further step on Collins's push.

[David Mantell]

 

Can't find any previous reviews of this. A definite stepping stone from Collins after completely having Jim Breaks ' number, coming back from the loss to Grey and then becoming European Welterweight Champion to now beating the more experienced and heavier Johnny Kidd 2-0. ( He may be 18 but he has transcended TBW status to become, in Kent Walton's words, "a young master of his craft."

(Although Kent Walton seems to forget Dynamite Kid did the last step at 18 before Collins.  Also although ITV never acknowledged it, Collins was temporarily separated from his British title, jobbing it to veteran crumb heel Cyanide Sid Cooper on an untelevised house show the night after the Euro title win was filmed before heading across La Manchester for his first FFCP tour. He got it back that autumn and held on until he had to vacate in 1989 after beating Finlay for the British Heavy Middleweight title.)

No rounds, best of three falls We join the action about 4 mins in with Collins unfolding a crossface into arm armbar.  JK goes for a horizontal twist out and tries to widen Danny's stance but he falls forward on one hand and bounces back to a standing start.

Johnny gets a leg and tries to trip Danny down but he just hops out the way of the trips.  

Nice first pint by Collins, he goes for a mid ring sunset flip, Kidd rolls through and tries for a folding press but Danny preforms a toupee on him (he's obviously been swotting up on his Catch Francais ready for Euro title defences for Delaporte.) Kidd cartwheels back to a standing start and tries to legdive round into another Sunset Flip position but Danny does the Davey at SS92/Leo Burke fold down for a pin.

A great pair of near pins,  Collins comes off the top turnbuckle and leapfrogs Kidd but Johnny jumps on Danny's shoulders from behind to get Collins in an upright flying scissors. He goes to the victory roll but Collins folds down the legs to arrest the momentum for a pin attempt.  Kidd flips Collins off him and locks over his legs when he rolls back for a bridging folding press but Danny gets his head free and crawls out.

The second straight fall sees the tables turned as Kidd similarly arrests Collins's momentum and Collins goes for the flip off and locking down with his own bridging folding press but unlike Kidd he holds on for the three count. 

A world title was the best logical step for Danny, there was talk of a claimant from Panama City looking to defend against him.  In the event Danny went to Brian Dixon, moved up the weights and avenged several earlier beatings by, as above mentioned, taking Fit Finlay's British Heavy Middleweight title in 1989, the year after TV, before beating Owen Hart in a corker to become World Middleweight champion (the version last claimed a decade earlier by Adrian Street although the CWA had its own version since 1985 and Mal Sanders and Keith Haward had feuded over a version in SunCity SA in 1982.)

[David Mantell]

On 11/19/2015 at 12:53 AM, ohtani's jacket said:

Dave Finlay vs. Boston Blackie (Ladder match, Caernarfon, taped 2/27/95)

This was interesting. Finlay looked almost exactly the same as the guy who showed up in WCW and attacked Steve Regal, and his work was better than it had been in nigh on a decade. I can't stand ladder matches as a rule, but was taken by the fact that Finlay looked so good. So there you go: at some point before entering WCW, Finlay shook off his malaise and fixed whatever it was that was blogging down his matches.

Finlay Vs Blackie had been a promising feud at the start of the 1990s when  Finlay won the British Heavyweight title from Tony StClair and Blackie was a highly tipped young blue-eye challenger. By this point the title had found its way back to StClair via Dave Taylor. 

Ladder match were brought back to Britain from Stampede by Kendo Nagasaki who did a bunch of them with Big Daddy in 1976 on house shows. (They were billed as being "American style").  They first became famous when Nagasaki and Clive Myers had the infamous Disco Ladder Match at All Star's first TV show and along with cages and chain matches became ubiquitous at the start of the 1990s due to the Kendo-Rocco feud and their shared predeliction for "hard core violence".  Orig Williams, aware of the old mantra that you can get away with ANYTHING in Welsh because the folk in London won't notice, put a load of these matches on in the early 90s featuring pretty much any of his and Brian Dixon's shared talent pool (except for Kendo Nagasaki.). 

Finlay and Paula had long gone their separate ways and Finlay lacked something much like Randy Savage did when Elizabeth quit their marriage and wrestling and became a WWF unperson. (You can tell peoples' age over here if you ask them who was Fit Finlay's sidekick and they answer Princess Paula or Hornswoggle. Probably true in Germany also where they worked together in the CWA.) There's something missing in her not being there to tell him off and refuse him kisses when he screws up in the ring. That was his gimmick really,  the paradox of this hard Irishman being henpecked and under Her orders.

This is only a year or so before his WCW debut, so no surprises that he looked like the Belfast Bruiser from WCW @ohtani's jacket .  (If not for Superchannel sticking its nose in, he and Stax would have been back on Saturday afternoon ITV just a year after this). Mostly it's an exercise to show off what they could get away with with the IBA (or rather the ITC by now) looking the other way.

They obviously had problems with hanging up the bag of money prize, it ends up over a ring post with the ladder propped up under the post. Not much scope for scientific wrestling here although twisting a leg through the metalwork of the ladder would be creative by C21st standards. Also Finlay executing his fireman's carry backdrop on BBC onto the ladder, the crowd barrier (something ITV never bothered with and promotions like All Star and Rumble still don't.

A couple of ear-openers in the Welsh commentary - Orig shouting MAMMA MIA and co commentator Nic Parry saying "well well well!". Poor old Bryn Fon doing his into at the top of the ladder, looking and probably feeling a bit of a dork.

[David Mantell]

On 7/12/2015 at 6:05 AM, ohtani's jacket said:

(Jimmy Ocean) had a female valet here and they did a low rent version of Paula and FInlay that was better than Paula and Finlay.

That was the original Sweet Saraya, mother of the Saraya/Brittany. She was and still is the wife of Ocean's tag partner Ricky Knight.  I wish she'd kept that whole Vamp/Brazen Hussy/Gangster's Moll look- Back in the early 1990s all women in Britain, especially outside London, dressed like that when out on the tiles and looking to pull a bloke. Good times!  When I first saw here live in Croydon 1995 she was in a black lycra body suit and matching gym shoes and looked like a student working as a wrestling valet as her summer job who didn't quite understand why it was "wrong" to interfere in a match.

I think I may have said all this before but I saw that quote while looking through old reviews of Finlay and Paula by OJ - to be fair OJ gets the point of them better than I feared.

[David Mantell]

On 10/8/2015 at 10:57 PM, ohtani's jacket said:

I don't know if you'll remember this, but Steve Prince was the guy who Fit Finlay stiffed mercilessly during a match on ITV. Back then he was wearing a black gi and wielding a katana blade. Here he'd changed to some sort of soldier gimmick

Steve Prince was doing pretty well for himself in the early/mid 90s. He was British Welterweight Champion at this time since beating Doc Dean in 1993 (and held it until the TWA set up a new version in 2000). He and Vic Powers beat the Liverpool Lads (Dean & Robbie Brookside) for the British Tag Team Championship - screened on Brookside's video diary on BBC2.

I posted an early 2010s clip of him refereeing earlier in the thread.

[David Mantell]

On 9/10/2015 at 2:09 AM, ohtani's jacket said:

Dave Finlay vs. Kung Fu (Caenarfon, taped 1988)

 

This had more back and forth action than the usual Finlay snoozefest. They didn't really do anything to convey that Finlay taking on Kung Fu was special in any way, but given that Kung Fu was past his best at this stage and his gimmick a little tired, it wasn't too bad.

 

 

Old training partners from  Finlay's dad's promotion in Belfast. 

Finlay still showed flashes of his skill at this time but his basic persona was a dirty wrestler and bully egged on by his noisy hen pecking wife. Heat generating heaven if not purist ideal. Steve "Black" Prince and Danny Collins had already got brutal stiff beatdowns (Danny gamely fought his way through several of these until eventually taking the British Heavy Middleweight title from Finlay in 1989.

His bullying ways on lighter opponents had already caught Big Daddy's attention with the big man turning up to various Finlay matches to call the "bully" out before eventually giving him the standard Daddy treatment in the 1986 FA Cup Final. This is the period when out of the ring, Finlay would regularly break the thumbs of drunk Macho Men in bars looking to impress their Miss Elizabeth by challenging the "fake" wrestler (I have no sympathy for them.)

On Reslo they had more scope to get away with longer out of the ring brawls and interference from Paula. Nice mention of the retaliation rule by Dixon in English (Kent Walton's explanation for why angry blue-eyes would throw the rulebook out after a while.) Nice Johnny Saint style use of the foot by Hamill to break Finlay's wrist lever, and Finlay does a spinning bump to get out of a yanked up wrist lever of Hamill's. Lack of rounds and only one fall reduces Paula's opportunity to give Finlay a good telling off, she is reduced to telling him to get back in there when he is slung out. Nice final smug pose from the First Couple of Wrestling - the heel bully and his noisy missus do it again!

[David Mantell]

On 10/21/2015 at 8:25 AM, NotJayTabb said:

Collins is still pretty good in ring nowadays. There's a full All-Star show from last year on YouTube (headlined by Robbie Dynamite vs Jushin Liger), and the second match is Collins having a decent match with a pretty green David Finlay Jr. Collins also cuts this great pre-match promo where he tells young Finlay that he's going to be taking his revenge for every broken bone and every drop of blood he spilt at that hands of Finlay Sr.

That was from 2012 not 2014 (the then last year) and it was headlined by the original Superflies (Jimmy Ocean's retirement match) and Saraya Senior  versus Robbie Brookside and Frankie Sloan the New Liverpool Lads.  The Finlays beat Dirty Dan and Wildcat Rob (both heels) in Germany that Xmas in the father's retirement match which I've posted to this thread already.

[David Mantell]

On 6/11/2015 at 5:37 PM, ButchReedMark said:

A friend of mine, Gary Welsh/Gary Clwyd, came out of retirement after a few years the other week. He used to be on Reslo a fair bit buy all accoiunts, but I don't have much memory of it. What are your thoughts on him OJ?

Do bring him on as we were discussing the Peter Bainbridge match with him from 1987 just a couple of pages back. He could give Ohtani some more insight on serious clean matches between two teenage blue-eyes.

I spoke to Geraint a brief while back on a FB about tagging with Flesh Gordon on Reslo, he just said Gordon was an OK guy.

[David Mantell]

On 6/13/2015 at 10:12 AM, ButchReedMark said:

I suppose Reslo finishing in 95 leaves a massive gap for wrestling where we won't be able to know now how good things were atb the time due to lack of footage. That's a bugger. I mean by '99 Orig Williams was doing "WWF Tribute Shows" instead of the Reslo type stuff. Boston Blackie was The Rock.

 

It was dire.

1995 was a bad year in that regard  Max Crabtree retires, Reslo finished and WCW jilted ITV and ran off with Superchannel (it ended in tears with Superchannel kaput and WCW on Friday evenings on Channel 5 until its own end)

Orig still did the odd Reslo/Trad British show among the WWF tribute shows until he quit due to illness in 2002 and had put up a new BWF websIte with interesting personality profiles before he died in 2009. His mate Alan runs Welsh Wrestling which claims to be post-Reslo in nature.

Mention tribute shows to The Boys and Girls and they will uniformly tell you it was a good period when they made better money.  It was the new generation of All Star talent - Robbie Dynamite, Dean Allmark, Kid Cool, Mikey Whiplash, Playboy Johnny Midnight - that really broke All Star out of that cycle and made it into its C21st incarnation.

[David Mantell]

On 12/20/2015 at 6:24 PM, ButchReedMark said:

I'm pretty sure EWF was Flesh Gorden's promotion, that's why Orig ended up on commentary on the English language broadcasts. Probably as payback for Orig letting Flesh be the drizzling shits on Reslo.

The name EWF smacks of Orig. See also BWF (mk2, not the 1960s Paul Lincoln et al one) and WWF in 1974 five years before VJM dumped the second and WWF again on an early 1983 Reslo edition with the angle where rival World Heavyweight Championship claimants Wayne Bridges and Tony StClair came face to face and belt to belt. Anything (x)WF involving Britain's talent pool pre 2000 I'd lay odds was his work.

I've said it before but I really can't see how anyone who has seen Big Daddy at his worst can think Flesh Gordon was the drizzling excrements. He seems to be a target not only for Marc Mercier and the FFCP but also most of France's Americanisation/Smark crowd.

[David Mantell]

On 2/19/2016 at 1:42 PM, JNLister said:

Trivia note is that Baker went on to open the first major training school where anyone could turn up and pay their fee rather than it being a closed shop deal. That produced the likes of Doug Williams, Alex Shane, Jodie Fleisch and Johnny Storm who went on to be the main guys in the FWA era of "new school" promotions (and in turn inspired many of the guys wrestling and promoting today), and in later years gave a grounding to Zack Sabre Jr and Prince Devitt.

 (honourable exception: Doug)

Worse still Andre Baker under encouragement from Fin Martin and much of the Smart crowd you mentioned in your Dirt Bike Kidiot article, was trying to divert the flow of young talent away from the traditional scene in an attempt to kill it off. He said in his interview with Fin for pre-Powerslam SOW that he would rather kids not be in the business than be involved in the Traditional British scene, a quote Fin highlighted.

[David Mantell]

On 8/28/2022 at 9:34 AM, ohtani's jacket said:

IIRC, wrestling was initially shown at 4pm in the standalone spot, but gradually they started programming it earlier in the day. Eventually, it was on at lunchtime, which killed it off completely. 

Actually no. It got moved to lunchtime in 1985 just a while before the end of World of Sport and there it stayed until the bitter end.

[David Mantell]

I'm surprised this match never got a review on here before (although I myself posted it to the "Why is America always assumed to be the centre of the wrestling universe" thread.

Of all Finlay's late 80s bouts this is probably the quintessential one. One again he's on with a much lighter man, except said lighter man is the best Lightweight on the planet (temporarily separated from his title by a heelish Mike Jordan.) In particular the finish is a study in the strengths and limitations of the Mountevans Rules. By now Finlay has quit Crabtreeland and gone to All Star and taken up a whole episode in late 87 beating Chic Cullen in cuts for the British Heavy Middleweight Championship.

This was taped at the same Croydon January 1988 show as the Kendo/Rocco breakup. (I had the local newspaper advert for years. I may still have it stuffed away.) Sadly the pre-match promos are missing with Finlay giving it American style trash talking as Paula smirks by his side while Saint talks no nonsense Manchester bloke like a sly old poacher about how he'll take the big braggart down. Finlay 's entrance is a real show of flamboyance in a British scene commonly accused of lacking such things, with Paula's gold spangly dress and Native American headdress making her a focal point next to Finlay's beefy frame and cloverleaf tights and green spangly waistcoat.

Unlike Saint's clean match opponents who just take being reversed gamely. Finlay roars with rage whenever a hold is reversed on him. He still does a nice roll on the mat and some interesting combination holds in the earlier rounds. Referee Bob Collins, an old heel is a cross little man here chastising Finlay on his rule ending. A bad landing by Finlay at the end of Round 1 gets a roar of joy from the crowd. Finlay goes for a chicken wing crossface in round 2 but can't lock it off. Sarcastic "AHH" from the crowd when he goes to Paula to massage his fingers. Possibly a botch at the end of Round 2,  as the Saint Lady of the Lake sequence goes on after the bell for aaaages, whereas I suspect it was only meant to overrun by a second or two.

Finlay up to dirty tricks in Round 3, masterfully hides a closed fist punch from the referee. (Thought - hiding a closed fist was to the UK what hiding a foreign object was in America.). Finlay is sunset flipped and has to resort to a blatant punch to the head to escape. This gets him a first public warning (in America a Babyface could do this and it would be good clean wrestling.) Dirty Dave even gets in a few stops on the mat while the ref turns to notify the timekeeper of the public warning! Saint gets a hope spot with a series of high backdrops until Finlay catches him on one and makes it into a fireman's carry suplex (his specialty) for the opener, stopping off to lay some vebals in the pinned Saint, as does Paula who audibly calls saint "Boy" . South London crowd are hopping mad.

Saint scores the equaliser, rocking Finlay with a series of dropkicks before bouncing him off the ropes into a folding press. Cue the high point for Finlay haters, after letting loose on Saint and the ref, Paula turns round on her man, tells him off and refuse Finlay a kiss ! "Do what I say, boy!" she commands him.  It seems it's the negative motivator Finlay needs - "That's YOUR doing, now I'll get you" he roars at Saint. It doesn't really get him far, at one point he is thrown out, Paula is by her site and the camera is right there to catch her jawing with ringsiders.

The end comes at the break between rounds 5 and 6. Finlay attacks Saint and Saint grabs him, raises a fist and looks for crowd permission to retaliate.  But Palace grabs Saint's hand allowing Finlay to throw him to ringside. The whole performance lands Finlay with a second and final PW at the start of round 6 but Saint injured his shoulder on the landing and Finlay takes advantage with arm armbar. Saint resist so Finlay tightens it up for the winning submission, his between bell attack having won him the match and the rules powerless to stop it.

Crowd are enraged and Finlay sloshes oil on the flames. Finally gets his kiss from Paula and most ostentatiously too. They pose right opposite the hardcam and Finlay emphasizes that "Princess Paula keeps me clear!" Hen pecked hardman he may be but, infuriatingly for the fans the hen pecking keeps him a winner just like the dirty tactics do.

 

 

[PeteF3]

The late Dean Rasmussen of the Death Valley Driver Video Review went over that one way back in 2002 before the Wrestling Channel was even a thing. Obviously there are some assumptions and misunderstandings here but there was no pre-indies British wrestling authority that was immediately accessible over the Web in those days:

"The mysterious Fit Finaly Indian Maiden is present in full effect. People get all warm and runny talking about Johnny Saint and God knows I love the old guy, but he was basically a Greatest Possible Matwork-based Combination of Edge and Rob Van Dam in that he is a good wrestler but he has these five or six hokey spots that he HAS to stick in every match. That out of the way, lemme say that this is the best Johnny Saint match I've ever seen, and that includes every match on the Best of Johnny Saint tape that Yohe so generously made for Schneider - as Yohe truly is a mysterious and benevolent God. THAT out of the way, let me say that Saint as face needs a strong-as-hell old style heel like Finlay to make crowd give a shit in a REAL wrestling fans giving a shit about someone getting their ass-kicked by somebody good and just kind of way. That out of the way, lemme discuss the particulars of the match. Finlay starts out of a wristlock that they both trade fun Brit-based reversals on. Fit doesn't give you a break clean, he won't shake your hand, he won't give you the indie hug. That's why Fit Finlay rules and everybody else in the wrestling world sucks. I'm banking on the fact that Dick Murdock never gave anyone a postmatch indie hug. Fit switches to an ankle lock and Saint is nifty reversing out of it - as Fit is really great at making this a match that is more than a match Saint's Edge-like Offensive spots - as Fit makes them work in context and makes the crowd pop like freaks when they would usually kinda politely applaud after Saint and his opponent get back to a vertical base and shake hands. Finlay will get the heel heat that keeps the crowd involved and helps Saint's offense pop out - it's beautifully old school, really. It isn't maturbatory scientific matwork, it becomes Saint assuming the role of the honorable alternative to the base and unscientific brawling of Finlay. Finlay sells each move like it means something - Saint's techinico tricked out offense is neater because Finlay is the British Fuerza Guererra and Finlay puts the screws to Saint to make the crowd get behind Saint and gives Saint a reason to struggle and be intense. It isn't math, it's a fucking fight. Saint avoids 1993 Rey Misterio spotmachine status by actually being masterful in his psychological end once the psychology of the match is established - looking inquisitive before reversing into his own somersaulting wristlock as if he had to find a way to counter the hold and thatto do so would require Saint to weigh a few options at hand. Second round, Fit doesn't give a fuck about trying to match wits with the technician and just starts pounding the fuck out of the old fella. The crowd goes apeshit as Finlay gets his first warning for rough tactics from the ref and Saint sells the EVIL like a king and gets the crowd squarely behind himself by taking it to Fit with a series of backdrops and Irish Whips into the corner. Fit reverses a Backdrop into a Samoan Slam for the first fall. (Indian gal talks shit to Saint between falls.) Crowd is Chanting "Johnny" so Fit realizes that they will get completely frothing if he REALLY starts beating the shit out of the babyface. This is Johnny Valentine level psychology and it works like a motherfucker here. Saint does a series of standing dropkicks to transition and hits an armbar into a roll-up for the pin. The crowd is MOLTEN as Johnny gives Fit a TASTE OF THE SPOILER by punching him in the face postfall after Finlay is all up in Saint's shit after the flashpin. Saint gives the ref the really great, "Fuck you, get him out of my face" look when the ref admonishes the face for his rough behaviour. Fit can't keep his squaw in line as she is giving him the business after the fall and Finlay would have been the greatest Memphis heel ever. Third fall is Saint completely highflying and Fit begs off with full Flair handshake offer and everything. Fit uses the stalling to get a keylock and punch to the kidneys. Saint rolls to counter but Fit makes the ropes. Fit with hyperbolic Tony Atlas chops and Saint dodges and Fit bumps like a fucking FREAK to the floor. Saint and Finlay go at it after the bell for the round sounds and the crowd is going apeshit as Finlay throws Saint over the toprope to the floor after they have a scuffle trying to make it back to their corners. When Johnny crawls back in devastated from the bump to the floor, allowing Fit to procure the armbar for the submission and Fit gets the tainted victory to loud displeasure of the crowd. Postmatch, Fit talks shit to the rubes and it's great. Fit fucking rocks. Fit vs Saint REALLY Rocks. I'm assuming they wrestled 1,000 times and I want all 1,000."

On either the old 1stop or britishwrestlingarchive board, some British old-timers took a dimmer view of this match because of the contrast in weight classes beyond a simple catchweight contest where wrestlers a few pounds apart are in separate weight classes on a technicality but are essentially the same size. To them it seemed every bit as ridiculous as Conor MacGregor fighting Stipe Miocic or Floyd Mayweather fighting Tyson Fury.

Saint is great but I agree with Dean and some others that some of his matches can come across as exhibition-y. The Brookside match is incredible the first time you see it but looks less and less like an actual match the more Saint you see as it's just Saint going through his routines one by one. I don't think Saint needed a strong Finlay/Breaks-level heel every single time but it's good to see him get out of his comfort zone. Rock vs. paper and rock vs. scissors are usually more interesting than rock vs. rock.

[David Mantell]

4 hours ago, PeteF3 said:

On either the old 1stop or britishwrestlingarchive board, some British old-timers took a dimmer view of this match because of the contrast in weight classes beyond a simple catchweight contest where wrestlers a few pounds apart are in separate weight classes on a technicality but are essentially the same size. To them it seemed every bit as ridiculous as Conor MacGregor fighting Stipe Miocic or Floyd Mayweather fighting Tyson Fury.

Was going to pull up on this as Tyson Fury was 13 going 14 in 2002 until I figured out this was you coming back at the end. I was on 1stopwrestling.co.uk from pretty near the beginning - it was a struggle to have an old school discussion on there while under siege from young FWA fan trolls for whom Old School was an "antiquated" abomination that needed to be wiped out and that they, by way of disruptive posting, were the front line in this fight.

To some extent however this was fans marking out for the idea that the heel was seeking an easy outlet for a sadistic beatdowns by taking a match like this. This was encouraged by Finlay's pre-match promos "Look what they're sending in against me today! A Lightweight!   I EAT LIGHTWEIGHTS and I'm going to EAT Johnny Saint this afternoon!" Finlay was by no means a superheavyweight but his run as a bully in 1986 that drove Big Daddy into a crusade to straighten him out established him with a reputation as someone who deliberately took on lighter wrestlers to beat down on them for his jollies.

I'm not surprised an American critic preferred this to one of Saint's clean matches. It shows that American -style ring psychology was not unknown in Britain, it was just reserved for hero versus villain match such as this, which was easier for American fans to relate to.

I do have sympathy for OJ's suggestion that Finlay wasn't properly showing his skills during this period. I would only argue that there was a valid reason why, relating to how he was being pushed. Also that  he and Paula got real heat rather than just being an irritant.  He does get more to do here than he does in bouts against less experienced lighter men. In Danny Collins's case it was building slowly to a day when Collins could inflict a serious defeat on Finlay and get even. (This finally occurred in 1989, a year too late for television.) In this bought, yes he's in against a lightweight but it's the best darn lightweight on the planet to keep him on his toes.

Obviously from Saint's perspective a blue-eye Vs heel match is not the best vehicle for his skills as he has to work the crowd rather than get on with employing his technical skill.