French catch

[WingedEagle]

31 minutes ago, ohtani's jacket said:

Are there any matches or workers you've enjoyed so far?

Big fan of Llano Pellacani thus far. Edourd Carpentier usually hits for me. Most of what I've seen of him as Eddy Wiecz has been very good.

Gilbert Cesca vs. Billy Catanzaro from 5/2/1957 was really great. 

My biggest issue that a lot of matches feel unnecessarily long with the work slowing down to ridiculous levels with an eye towards going long rather than accentuating what the workers are actually capable of and in fact to the detriment of their capabilities. Some folks seem to appreciate a lot of the micro details and stylistic contrasts that are found in those matches but too often those longer outings aren't exactly delivering a solid ROI. 

More Pellacani. More Cheri Bibi. More work with purpose rather than running the ball to kill the clock.

[ohtani's jacket]

It's a valid criticism.

From memory, Jacky Corn was my favorite guy for pushing the pace. I would also recommend checking out the Modesto Aledo match. I can't remember which is the better of his two matches but it might be the one against Teddy Boy. 

[WingedEagle]

1 hour ago, ohtani's jacket said:

It's a valid criticism.

From memory, Jacky Corn was my favorite guy for pushing the pace. I would also recommend checking out the Modesto Aledo match. I can't remember which is the better of his two matches but it might be the one against Teddy Boy. 

Thanks, will definitely keep an eye out.

[David Mantell]

12 hours ago, WingedEagle said:

My biggest issue that a lot of matches feel unnecessarily long with the work slowing down to ridiculous levels with an eye towards going long rather than accentuating what the workers are actually capable of and in fact to the detriment of their capabilities. Some folks seem to appreciate a lot of the micro details and stylistic contrasts that are found in those matches but too often those longer outings aren't exactly delivering a solid ROI. 

That was rather the point as far as the original audiences for European wrestling, especially the devout fans, were concerned. Especially with British wrestling which at its best was about, as Kent Walton said, "skill and speed combined" - lots of clever micro details coming hard and fast. Even those fans who just wanted "rough and tumble" between a good guy and a bad guy were made to feel like they OUGHT to appreciate the skilful clean bouts and that it would make them not just a better wrestling fan but a better person too to acquire the taste for more sophisticated wrestling rather than mere "vugar" crowd psychology.

With France they developed a different style, particularly in the tag matches but also among the lighter weight wrestlers like Michel Saulnier, Le Petit Prince and Vasillious Mantopolous that emphasized agility rather than technical ingenuity, although again combined with speed. "Il est tres SOUPLE" seems to have been the highest compliment the French TV commentators could pay to a wrestler.

Germany/Austria is an odd case. At the time the Home Video releases started being filmed circa 1979/1980 there appears to have been an older generation around including Axel Dieter Senior, Achim Chall, Jorg Chenok, Roland Bock etc who relied on a slow rigorous style that involved getting a hold and milking it for every last possibility of adjustment of leverage and every last drop of emotion. Mile Zrno appears to have been the youngest who worked this style. After that, there was a revolution in the German/Austrian style when Steve Wright permanently relocated to Germany and began teaching the young generation including his son Alex the British technical style.  Consequently by the mid 90s there was a blossoming wave of young technical workers like Ulf Herman. Ecki Eckstein etc similar to that in Britain a decade earlier with Danny Collins, Kid McCoy etc.

French and German/Austrian fans seem to have appreciated British-style clean technical sportsmanly bouts but it was not so much part of their staple diet as it was for British audiences.

All the European territories had tropes which tend to confuse a fan brought up on American wrestling, not least the wider pallete of finishes with, for example, a countout being called a Knockout and presented as a better and more emphatic way to win than two falls or submissions. Similarly the use of a technical knockout as a shorter alternative to the time limit draw, or the slow build towards a disqualification of a heel through acquiring three public warnings/Avertisements/yellow cards. These were NOT seen as cheap finishes, they were seen as legitimate and accepted as satisfactory by the audience.

Another example of this is much of what American fans write off as "Rest .Holds".  In Europe especially in Britain, more often than not, these are the set up stage for a clever skillful escape hold. A side headlock on the mat in Britain is not just a cover for the work coming to a stop, it is the set-up for a clever handstanding move to lever oneself out of the headlock - and often into a hold of ones own for the opponent then to escape from and continue the chain.

All three territories seem to have made a major concession to sheer commercial appeal in the 1980s - in Germany the boom in CWA title matches pitting an increasingly obese Otto Wanz against numerous visiting Americans. In France it was a more general trend towards gimmickry and cartooniness (compared to some eras of Memphis wrestling especially the early USWA) of which Flesh Gordon, despite having been a decent worker back then, has come to be seen as the embodiment.  In Britain it was the subordination of the entire Joint Promotions product to being a feeder for Big Daddy and his lopsided kiddy-friendly tag matches.

The three "extinct" territories of Mediterranean Southern Europe - Spain. Italy and Greece - each had their own styles and tropes although we have less footage of these to get our heads around the styles.

[David Mantell]

A nice live poster from the FR3 era, 1986, filched from Bob Plantin's page.

All your favourite soon to be stars of Eurosport New Catch (well the French "home team" ones anyway) and plenty of future stars of the IWSF.

 

[David Mantell]

On 3/2/2015 at 5:09 AM, ohtani's jacket said:

Claude Roca & Walter Bordes vs. Albert Sanniez & Pierre Bernaert (8/29/77)

Great maestros tag. One of my favourite catch bouts to show up online. The contrast between the teams made this fight. You had two smaller, zippy guys in Roca and Sanniez, a bruiser in Bernaert, who still knew some holds, and the super athletic showman in Bordes. Add to that Roger Delaporte in a patriarchal ref role and an aging Roger Couderc on commentary and you had all the ingredients of a great catch bout the way it used to be. Now that I'm used to the tropes it was particularly warming to see them done in a maestros style. As with all matches of this type, you shouldn't expect a bout that builds to a dramatic climax. Instead, it's about the simple pleasure of a well executed move or a fun exchange. If you love shoot style, lucha matwork, or the maestros style, you should be onto this in a flash. It's basically European BattlARTS meets lucha through a French lens, while remaining distinctly catch.

 

Claude Rocas was somewhere in the middle of a procession of high flying tag partners Walter Bordes has from the mid 60s to the mid 80s (I wonder if Bordes was ever on New Catch) starting with 50s legend Rene Ben Chemouel and ending with a young skinny Flesh Gordon. This falls somewhere between these periods.  Sanniez is making his slow jump from clean lighter weight to a French version of Jim Breaks. Bernaert was by now an old greying guy, a hardened heel from 15 years earlier, not unlike the character Delaporte was playing a few years earlier. His scruffy grey beard makes him look suspiciously like Jeremy Corbyn.  Both the two Rogers are in evidence - Delaporte the former heel now honest sheriff of the ring, Delaporte back in the commentary position now the Gaullists are out of office and his support for the students in 1968 is forgotten.

Roca and Sanniez start it with a Roca Plex.  Both bump around, Sanniez neatly unplugs a headscissors with his feet then saunters back to his corner to Bordes to taunt him..  Bernaert, being older is somewhat clumsier, bumping sloppily from a flip from the feet by Bordes. Crowd are going for Bordes " Mama Doux Mais Mais".  Bordez whips Sanniez who does a Breaks/Grey horizontal spin on the mat to take Albert down. Roca handstands out of a Bernaert headscissor and old man Pierre reverse cartwheels back upright - the old by still has it.  He also fires off a lean back dropkick despite his years. Another bumping session from Bordes and Sanniez including a vicious blockbuster horizontal suplex. Sanniez and Delaporte get into a brief argument. Bordez surfboards Sanniez but Sanniez whips him overhead with a double arm whip, Bordes kicks him as he moves in for the kill. 

Bordes has Bernaert covered but Delaporte is distracted by Sanniez. He makes it back for a 1 count, Bordes drops a leg on Pierre's aging bicep and outs on a spinning toehold - Couderc at 10:30 uses that same "chewing gum" word I was asking @El-P about before.  Roca does the old bridge into flip into monkey climb sequence on Sanniez, finishing it off nicely with a bodyscissors, but Albert converts it to a blockbuster suplex sending Roca flying.  Sanniez and Rocco have a great time avoiding each others charges and drops. Bordes gets out of a Bernaert headscissor by concertinaing his legs, old grey PB kicks Bordes into the ropes but he cartwheels out  of harms way. Bernaert is getting annoyed with Bordes's prancing and has an angry little prance himself.  Sanniez and Rica reverse full Nelsons and exchange flips until Roca cross buttocks and presses Sanniez for a 2.  Les Mechants go on an extended beatdown on Bordes which ends only when Sanniez mistakenly fires a missile dropkick at his own partner Bernaert, allowing Bordes to make the hot tag.  Sanniez eventually gets a couple of dropkicks but misses a third and is nearly pinned for his pains. Roca eventually backwards leapfrogs Sanniez and rolls him up in a folding press for the opening pinfall.  The heels protest but Delaporte will have none of it.

25 mins in we get our first Scisseaux Volees takedown as counter to wrist lever, the standard French chain sequence gambit as compared to the rolling escape from armbars preferred in British Wrestling.  Sanniez oversells Bordes's forearm smashes, spinning through the air on a first and going over the ropes on the second - "Ah la manchette de Bordes, C'est quelque chose!" quips Couderc.   Bordes cartwheels out of a Bernaet fling bodyscissors and fires off two quick headscissors of his own. He foils a double team with a Ricky Morton headlock/ headscissor combo on both heels. Les Bons spend a long while battering Les Mechants with Manchettes and anything else. Sanniez leapfrogs Bordes to avoid a dropkick and brags about how his brains saved him until Bordes hits with another dropkick. Sanniez gets 2 on Roca with a flying tackle. He tries again but Claude gets him in a tombstone piledriver. Sanniez puts his hands on Roca's chest to block and possibly reverse the piledriver. After a couple of attempts to dislodge the blocking hands, Roca drops Sanniez hard on his chest.  Both teams tag but Bernaert does not want in with Bordes. He argued with Delaporte who drags him in by the arm.  Bernaert tries for a leglock but ends up in a bodyscissors, Roca does the same to Sanniez. Both heels get the traditional "Ah Ouais" atomic drops spot.  Walter twice slingshots Pierre into Albert then finishes him with another flying tackle to make it a two straight win for Les Bons.

Good action packed French Catch A Quatre, fine example of the genre and a good one for beginners to watch to get the idea of the territory.

(This isn't an INA copy, it's unwatermarked from ABCCatch's channel, but Matt has posted the INA's copy too.)

[David Mantell]

On 1/26/2020 at 2:35 AM, ohtani's jacket said:

Marcel Motta & Angelito vs. Le Marquis Richard Fumulo de la Rossignolette & Black Shadow (5/28/85)

This was late into the catch broadcasts but there was still a lot of good stuff on ITV in 1985 so I thought I would give it a go. It was actually pretty fun. It was a bit like watching a lucha undercard match where you don't know any of the workers. Actually, I thought the Marquis looked familiar and he ended up being Jacky Richard who we saw in a lot of the late 70s/early 80s tags that ABCCatch uploaded 5 years ago. Not an essential match by any means but better than it looked on paper. 

Another good tag.  Bit unclear on what station it was broadcast, the end credits say FR3 Dijon but the notes (and this is the INA's own channel) say Antenne 2. My guess is that this was repeated on A2 from an earlier FR3 screening and that there was a longer overlap between the FR3 and A2 phases. perhaps going back to La Derniere Manchette the previous year. It looks like the same ring as Les Maniaks Vs Bordes and Gordon so it might be the same TV taping.

Angelito and Jacky's TV feud ran for about 20 years (short-lived Mechant tag team notwithstanding) from the 1971 bout where Angelito unmasks mid match to the Eurosport New Catch bout between Angelito El Vigilante and Travesti Man (both previously reviewed on here.)

Paul Butin Fluchard the butler inherited from the original Marquis. beardy Eduardo is allowed up on the ring apron as he later would as Travesti Man's "Best Boy" Jean Claude Blanchette.  Why he was allowed up is something a native fan will have to explain to us - even if aristocrats do believe they are above the law, referees and Les Flics should surely not agree? ) but I'm coming to think of him as an update of Robert Duranton's hapless manservant Firmin back in the Sixties. Virgil, basically.

Black Shadow is apparently Moroccan not American as 70s commentators claimed. Things grind to a halt after Angelito breaks Shadow 's full nelson and a man in a sub Gobbly Gooker sports mascot costume charges to ringside.

Angelito is in a very bouncy mood slingshotting himself into the ring, snapmaring Shadow. He and Richard lock up. He gets a sunset flip which becomes a double leg nelson "bascule" (back and forth double leg exchange) which becomes a flying headscissors, quite the combination  Shadow and Motta threaten to have a boxing match before both heels keep an armlock/top wristlock going for a while until Motta breaks free with a Planchette Japonaise (Monkey Climb).  Richard finds various ways to keep hold of a full nelson. Angelito nicely converts a rear armhank to a sunset flip but Shadow double ankles him to escape at 2.  

Paul BF interferes to help Richard beat up la Motta, missed by referee Otto Weiss who took over the miserable quasi heel Arbitre Chiotte role from Saulnier after 1983. (again this negativity towards the ref is something we really need a native fan to explain. I think it's to do with a traditional French hatred of jumped up petty officials and pesky bylaws.) He gives Angelito a first Avertisement and even commentator Daniel Cazal doesn't know why.  I think it was that one extra kick on a downed opponent but usually you had to persistently attack a fallen opponent to earn an Avertisement/public warning/yellow card. Richard forces Angelito to his knees but Angelito cartwheels out and chops down Richard for a 2 count after Paul runs in and pulls him off.

Angelito gets a folding press on Shadow but Runs Out Of Mat as Kent Walton would say.  He gets the opening fall on le Marquis with a Victory roll.  Paul fans off Richard and Weiss with his towel during the falls break Deuxieme Manche:  Richard gets Angelito down with a hammerlock in the heels corner but Angelito counters with a headscissor. Paul pulls him off and for his pains is nearly yanked off the ring apron by the ankle by an irate fan. Angelito uses the top rope to reverse snapmares himself behind Richard, rear legdive him and switch to a side headlock but Paul punches him down as he makes his escape.  Angelito spends a good long while on the floor selling hellish dirty wrestling . The heels both get an Avertisement for it. Angelito eventually dropkicks Paul to ringside and makes the hot tag to Motta who goes on a Manchette rampage on both heels plus the butler. A somewhat sloppy sunset flip on Shadow only gets a two but the followup powerslam gets a second straight fall and the win for Les Bons.

A fine action packed Catch A Quatre, I agree with OJ.  

[David Mantell]

Gary Clwyd/ Welsh in France! For a guy with one ITV match against fellow TBW Peter Bainbridge, he certainly got about a bit.  I make that 16;TV bouts in a career.

Cullen at this stage is still a blue-eye (he started going heel during his World Heavy Middleweight title feud with Robbie Brookside in 1991-1992) . As far as the  live French audience is concerned, the most familiar figure would be faux Cowboy Jessy Texas who has been knocking around the FFCP turning up on TV to feud with young Flesh Gordon since as far back as 1983. Another familiar face would be referee Charley Bollet, kid brother of legendary heel Andre Bollet and another survivor of Old Catch on A2/FR3.

Fourth participant Jörg Schrage is a German doing a gimmick as a heel truck driver.  In England this would be a truly sinister thing - lorry driver sadly have a bad reputation for being unmasked as serial killers and sex murderers over here. Fear not however, he's just a curmudgeonly German truckie.  He and Jessy do a really strange promo with Jessy hanging out the cabin door of Jorg's truck.

Match itself is not a lot to write home about, one fall after ten minutes of action. Gary pays homage to the local flavour with a nifty Scisseaux Volees takedown which unfortunately crashes into the ropes, not in a Kent Walton "Ran out of Mat"kind of way but rather as if the ropes were an unexpected obstacle the wrestlers collided with that mucked up their big spot. Cullen pulls off a neat monkey flip and the heels get the win with a rather badly done low flying version of the LOD's Doomsday Device off the middle turnbuckle on poor old Gary.

The rest is the heels doing their dirty work (Bollet gives them a Premier Avertisement) and the blue eyes retaliating. Reasonably action packed but technically nothing that you couldn't have seen on WWF or particularly WCW TV at the time.

 

 

[David Mantell]

Another New Catch bout, this time featuring two survivors of Old Catch.  Jacky Richard you should all know about, there's plenty enough on this thread 1970s-C21st.  LaMotta (no relation to Marcello Motta in the last bout) had at least one previous French TV appearance reviewed by OJ on page 11 where he and a pre Flesh Gordon taken on the Golden Falcons/Halcones de Oro in 1980 (I may well dig that one out myself.) This is in the early Maxi Cuisine sponsored ring so filmed in 1988 and originally screened that year -not Kong before The Final Bell in the UK - on French Catch's now privatised ancestral home TF1 before being repeated on Eurosport early the following year. German commentary presumably by Peter Wilhelm.

Richard is in the full Marquis getup with wig, tricorn and velvet greatcoat. LaMotta has a red sequin jacket. Call it  New Romantic Vs Glam Rock. Coats off. LaMotta is a baldy old guy like Axel Dieter Senior but Richard swaps his old black tights for purple and pink Jerry Lawler leotard. Possibly the beginnings of his morph into the Travesti Man. The butler Paul Butin De Luchard is in full effect, combing Richard's also balding locks. The referee is also dressed for the occasion in a shiny silver smoking jacket.

Down to business:  they go into the ropes and Paul trips Tony. Richard tries for a quick pin but Tony kicks out and goes on the rampage.  Despite their age, Tony gets a bunch of good fast moves off the Marquis - two snapmares, full nelson into another snapmares, double legs and neatly spins out of whatever response Richard is trying. More hiptosses and the Marquiss rolls out.  Once back, Richard gets a standing full nelson.  LaMotta slips down to escape but rolls over and Richard gets the hold back so LaMotta reverses it.  The Marquis powers the hold open, comes off the ropes and is legflipped   He bodychecks La Motta but is caught coming off the ropes in a crosspress for 2, saved by Paul running in and flipping La Motta off. Tony tries an armbar and forces the Marquis to take a bump. He maintains the wristlock on the mat for some whille. dragging him up to force another bump.  Richard does the same back and gets a straight headscissor. He pulls the tights the first escape attempt but LaMotta gets out on the second try. A round break and Paul the butler prompts Richard who walks into a dropkick early in Round 2.  LaMotta forearms Richard and ties him in the ropes and flings out Paul when he tries to free his master. He goes for a second charge but Paul trips and backdrops him and Jacky who has freed himself splashes him for the one required fall.

Short and to the point  from two veterans of Old Catch. A good crossover bout between one era and the next. Watch it if you have issues accept hat New Catch was the rightful continuation of classic French Catch.

 

[David Mantell]

On 2/21/2025 at 12:16 PM, David Mantell said:

LaMotta (no relation to Marcello Motta in the last bout) had at least one previous French TV appearance reviewed by OJ on page 11 where he and a pre Flesh Gordon taken on the Golden Falcons/Halcones de Oro in 1980 (I may well dig that one out myself.)

Okay, here goes:

On 5/16/2020 at 2:04 PM, ohtani's jacket said:

Gerard Herve & Tony LaMotta vs. The Golden Falcons (aired 8/11/80)

Gerard Herve was a young Flesh Gordon. He was pretty good considering he'd go on to become one of the worst workers in history. I have no idea who the Golden Falcons were. They worked a generic masked man style, which I guess they had to so no-one suspected who they were. I didn't think much of their work. The best parts of the match where when Herve and LaMotta were in control. LaMotta reminded me of Bert Royal and did some neat stuff. The trouble with these 80s tags is that they're too long. The wear down sections are boring and the refs get involved too often. If they'd made this a one fall, twenty minute bout, it would have been much tighter. 

All four participants went on to appear on New Catch.   LaMotta we've just dealt with. Herve is the future Flesh Gordon and the Falcons faced TBWs 

TBWs Yann Caradec and Patrice Martineau (with Flesh mentoring the kids) on a 1988 episode, see page 32.

Everyone 's looking pretty Glam - the Falcs in their star studded glittery capes with silver lining and masks like the Conquistadors at Survivor Series 1988, Les Bons in spangly white trunks, LaMotta in a white jacket nicked from Blake's 7, Herve in the same purple jacket as against Ramirez in 1979. I want one for nightclubbing. A large trophy is brought into the ring for the winner. Saulnier stands back to the camera - his ears poking out make him and the cup lok alike,

Fast paced affair, credit due to Herve and the smaller Falcon who have some great exchanges.  Dropkicks, sunset flips, toupees out of headscissors, the lot. Hot tempered too as Herve is constantly making fists at the heels and getting reprimanded by Saulnier until eventually he thumps him and gets a Premier Avertisement. Saulnier and Herve continue to bicker throughout the bout, Saulnier telling Herve off for not holding his tag rope while ignoring the Falcons.  When he knocks Herve off the ropes after the Falcons have been choking him, the crowd goes mad and Saulnier goes even madder, breaking out intom

The younger (less bald) LaMotta is no slouch either.  His opening pin on a Falcon is fantastic - waistlock into rear folding press held by bridge - and he pulls off some snappy flying headscissors too. The bigger Falcon stomps Tony then slams and splashes him for the equaliser less than 4 minutes from the end of the clip. It's quite a cliffhanger Les Bons suddenly losing their lead like that. A ringside family of Pere, Mere et les petits gosses  look suitably worried. Herve tries to take over for La Belle, Saulnier will have none of it and Herve throws a most un-Bon-like Cry Baby Jim Breaks stroppy!

But fear not, the Falcons screw up a double team spot with Small dropkicking big. Herve tags in and goes on a cross buttock throwing spree on both masked men, eventually cross pressing one of them for the pin and the trophy from the start.

Okay, I'm off to Dudley for All Star, will report back soon on the British thread. Rumble should soon be posting their first videos of the new year soon too. Oh and I've found something REALLY SPECIAL for the German thread which I'm looking forward to watching in full.

 

[Phil Lions]

@David Mantell The origins of the swimming pool matches.

So, I've looked into it a bit and here's what I can confirm. As mentioned before, the earliest one that I can find is from September 1948 in Bordeaux, and INA has highlights of it, but it seems like the concept started picking up more steam in 1954 when the business as a whole became looser in terms of regulations (that's another story for another day). At that point the swimming pool matches were exclusively an "indie" concept, as in the major promotions had nothing to do with it. The main promotion, and perhaps even the only one, that was doing such matches at the time was CIC (Cercle International de Catch) and for a few years its shows were under the regulations of the FACA (Federation Autonome de Catch Amateur) governing body. Both were based out of Bordeaux. In addition to Bordeaux, CIC did shows in other French towns and eventually in the French territories in Africa too. CIC started as an "amateur catch" organization in 1947 (amateur catch is a big story in itself, a story for another day), but eventually when "amateur catch" faded away as a concept in France, CIC became a pro organization and worked with Lageat and Siry's FFCP and later on with others too. In 1947-1954 CIC had its own set of stars and champions (French, European and World), some of them being Yves Borne, Rene Mathieu, Manuel Cubera, Juan Pascual, James Bellivers, Dante Pozzi, etc. Most, if not all, of CIC's wrestlers were lightweights, welterweights and middleweights.

Photos from 1954 in Bordeaux, Casablanca and Algiers:

[David Mantell]

Interesting. CIC was also the initials of the main Spanish promotion Corporacion Internacional de Catch which closed its doors in 1975 after having scaled down to just Madrid and Barcelona circa 1965.  French promoters including Delaporte regularly invaded Spain over the next 15 years until the WWF properly revived the territory in 1990 with TV show "Pressing Catch" on Telecinco.

I think Bob Plantin posted some stuff on FB about wrestling in Algeria. Before the Algerian War, a generation of French school kids grew up heavily indoctrinated to think of Algeria as part of France. Obviously it would have been a prime market for overseas sales of Le Catch kinescope prints, perhaps bicycled on to other Arab North African countries such as Morocco, (c.f.  your mention of Casablanca - the Spanish CIC also regularly toured Morocco.)

[David Mantell]

On 10/24/2022 at 8:36 AM, ohtani's jacket said:

Le Vicomte Joel de de Noirbreuil & Pierre Lagache vs. Abraham Edery & Georges Cohen (aired 10/16/66)

This was a match that could have taken place any night of the week in Paris, but it was highly entertaining largely because Georges Cohen is lowkey one of the best babyfaces in the archives. The heels were nondescript here. With a name like Le Vicomte Joel de de Noirbreuil, you'd expect something a little flamboyant, but nope, it was all black tights and standard heel work, but Cohen was good enough to carry the entire bout by himself. I wish enough people watched French Catch to make controversial statements about it, so I'll put one out there. Georges Cohen > Rene Ben Chemoul. There, I said it. 

 

Match joined in progress hence possibly the lack of aristocric gimmickry. I believe  Le Vicomte (sp?) Joel is in fact Joel de Fremery who turned up on World of Sport with a World Heavyweight Middleweight title that he lost to Rollerball Rocco.

Cohen and Joel doing some interesting leglock reversals, Cohen using his knee to flip over Lagache.  Every tries for a headscissors but it ends up a bodyscissors which Lagache shrugs off. Commentator says Lagache is one of the dirtiest wrestlers he knows of and he proves it, biting Edery's wrists then looking around innocently, later nipping Cohen's ear.

Referee Martial may look like a Fatty Arbuckle comedy type but he is a hard-nosed ref like Delaporte later on. He physically pulls apart the heels ' double teams and at one point gets his hand trapped in a Joel hammerlock.   Apparently Joel is an English teacher in a private school but that doesn't stop him fouling in the ring.   The "Israelite s" tag is no joke, Edery is a former IDF soldier, presumably a protege of Rafael Halperin. 

Les Mechants pitch Les Bons to ringside. It gets them an Avertisement and a crowd riot but also the first fall as Lagache pins  Edery.  Heels keep up the heat with between fall attacks and plenty of double teaming. Cohen gets the hot tag but they nail him with a full nelson/ shoulderblock double team. A second go and Lagache misses. Sails out of the ring and Cohen dropkicks Joel out to join him.  Eventually the heels recover taking turns to work a leglock on Edery.   Arbitre Martial at one point lifts Lagache away in a rear waistlock to stop his fouling. Joel has Cohen cornered for one of those beatdown where WWF fans would count the punches but Cohen slips out and dropkicks him out the ring. During an exchange of Manchettes, Joel leapfrogs Edery who takes him down from behind in a folding press for the equaliser.  

La Belle: Les Mechants corner and double team Edery with leglocks, often one on each leg.. Eventually Cohen runs in with a battery of Manchettes. Arbitre Martial grabs Lagache by the hair and throws him out of the ring. Edery nearly gets a pin with double knees, Lagache turns it over into the start of a surfboard but Edery tags George who ties Lagache in the ropes and repeatedly dropkicks him. Tags Edery who cross buttocks the heel a few times Cohen flips Joel into Lagache and ties Joel by the neck in the ropes as Edury pins Lagache for the winner.

Typical fast paced half hour Catch A Quatre Francais.  I think Rene Ben Chemouel's reputation relies more on his purist technical work in the 50s than his work as a Bon in Catch a Quatres in the 60s and early 70s anyway. Would Cohen be so impressive in a serious technical championship match with George Kidd? Still, horses for courses.

 

[David Mantell]

A bout I've been meaning to post on here, two relative youngsters for the time getting their break on TV during the Eurosport New Catch era.  Jean Philippe de Lousac in pink is Le Bon a veritable TBW Francais at 18 years old, Lacroix is Le Mechant with manageress Miss Paris. Unlike Britain you can be a heel at a young age and Lacroix has all the youthful surly thuggy menace of Sean Waltman as the Lightning Kid in GWF around this time.

Eric starts with a snapmares and elbow. JP gets a cross buttock &;press for a 2 count.. Eric gets a top wristlock on the mat and armdrags his man, De Lousac kips up, somersaults on the top wristlock (you KNOW you're watching French Catch when your see that move) and throws him out the ring with one arm (for an argument with his managers) and back in from the apron, then snapmares and dropkicks him twice getting a standing toehold weakener, then a leglock then elbowsmash thengets double legs. He tries for a Boston Crab then a slingshot but Lacroise lands short of the ropes. He moves around the ring to relax his leg ( a mistake to allow this says Orig on English commentary) then strikes with brawling tactics .  He drags de Lousac (earning himself an Avertisement from arbitre Charley Bollet) into a full nelson then switches to a snapmare from behind over his shoulder, a dropkick as good and sharp as JP's ones earlier.  He picks him up by the jaw but de Lousac takes over, breaks the hold and both men fire dropkicks at the same time, both taking a bump. JP up first and still in charge snapmares, slings and dropkicks Lacroix, but the young Mechant regains his heat with a kidney blow and headbutt.  He posts JP and stomps and holds him  before the referee and his own corner people demand the release.  JP reverses a posting, somersaults across the ring and monkey climbs him then flings him back out of the ring and when he returns getting a snapmare and dropkick, whip to the ropes and flying headbutt for an eight count, then two forearms the second of which floors Eric.  He grabs the heel's hair and asks the crowd what he should do next  but Eric sinks in an elbow and this time it's Jean Philippe who gets thrown out.  Theo and Miss Paris get their licks in while Eric keeps Bollet distracted then throw him back in time for Eric to score the winning fall with a long suplex despite JP's complaints.  

Good to see two promising young talent in the early 90s.  Plenty of traditional French moves but the bout structure is more American with clear periods of dominance (hope spots, regaining heat etc). I'd love to know what both these Gosses got up to in the next couple of decades.

 

 

[David Mantell]

On 11/20/2022 at 6:09 AM, ohtani's jacket said:

Anton Tejero vs. Walter Bordes (aired 8/29/67)

This match was available back in the old days when every piece of Catch footage was like mana from heaven. Tejero is a fabulous worker, but I wasn't really feeling this. I wanted to see Bordes shine, but Tejero was up to his tricks all bout long and Bordes didn't cut loose until the finishing stretch. I'd probably like this more on a different day where I haven't just watched an entire run of similar matches. 

August 1967, just weeks before Channel 2 went colour.

Bordes is the young kid versus the wily heel.. He is called Rene Ben Chemouel's protege, not his tag partner. It's cat and mouse with heelish Tejero as cat getting on holds that Rene slides out of such as wedging his way out of headscissors.  Walter has backward rolling attempts in scissor s, forward somersaults Tejero has his power holds like scissors and full nelson.  

Waltermania is not yet running wild. There are no chants of Pap Doux Mais Mais, probably because said record is not released. Big Mr Martial is refereeing again and so far by halfway he has had little to do as Tejero has behaved himself. Inevitably the bad penny drops, Tejero gets in an illegal concealed closed fist punch, Martial is livid although Tejero challenges him for proof since he knows his own torso covered up the Mechanterie. He does it again but is negligent enough to be facing away from Martial so this time the referee seeks it and gives him an  Avertisement. A third and fourth one iare better concealed. Tejero is getting bored and started stomping Bordes on the mat. 

Big hope spot when  Bordes sends Tejero out of the ring. He has Tejero begging for mercy in the corner and drags him by the leg to centre ring fore more treatment. It calms down for a bit, Bordes wedging out of headscissors etc. Martial misses a hairpull  but but does catch and admonish a stomp on the mat.

As OJ says, we only get the trademark Walter at the end with a flurry of dropkicks, Scisseaux Volees and finally a Victory Roll for the one required pin. But have a heart, the kid was learning 58 years ago. Catch A Quatre would prove to be his forte, from RBC to Flesh, but he had to start from somewhere.

 

 

 

[David Mantell]

On 2/12/2020 at 10:21 PM, ohtani's jacket said:

Dave Finlay & Ian Gilmour vs. Guy Mercier & Alan Mitchells (aired 8/25/80)

Ian Gilmour was one of the golden boys of British wrestling during the 1970s. The footage we have of him is mostly of him tagging with Jeff Kaye though he does appear in one of the only Jackie Pallo matches we have. It looked like he was having fun playing a lippy heel in front of a delightful French crowd. Finlay still had a bit of the "lad" about him. He looked like some kid Gilmour brought with him on tour. I think he's better in his early ITV work but perhaps I'm biased. You could see flashes of his mean streak during the beatdowns he gave but he mostly played second fiddle to Gilmour. He looked like an absolute thug, though. You could have easily cast him as the muscle in any Brit crime flick from this era. He seemed to have a perpetual scowl on his face, and the way he beat guys up felt like he was trying to hurt them. The French guys were classic old-school, French grapplers. They looked like the splitting image of amateurs turned professionals, and body sculptors. I'm more familiar with Mercier's son, Marc, than either guy, but they looked like solid technicians. The match was entertaining. The crowd certainly enjoyed it. I kept wondering if the commentator was Roger Couderc. Whoever he was, he was having a whale of a time. There were a few too many shenanigans with the ref for this to enter the cannon of great French matches, but it was fun. 

I've posted this bout on here in the past (a discussion of phony Scotsman gimmicks in French Catch). but not properly reviewed it. Fit Finlay's World TV Premier. OJ's  words "shenanigans with the ref" should give you one guess who that ref is going to be- yup, Michel Saulnier. He and Guy Mercier had had a couple of years to get their act together. A couple of other points to get out of the way- the design of Gilmour and Finlay's tops is the same as Gilmour wore on World of Sport 2 years later as the masked Kamikaze (especially against Jim Breaks) that Alan Mitchell is actually British and of course that Middlesbrough and Belfast are a darn sight closer to Scotland than wherever Alan MacGregor or Marc O Conner came from (or ditto Roddy Piper, come to that.) Oh yes and that is Indeed Couderc, with "la Reine", his answer to Kent Walton's Duchess. 

Right from the outset, Couderc gets Gilmour and Finlay muddled up - frustrating when you consider the Barons having been on French TV just 9 years ealier. The beret makes him look downright paramilitary but he has to ditch it for the bout.  

Finlay and Gilmour don't particularly chain wrestle in either the British or French style although they both definitely knew the former. Finlay is really keen on herl bump taking , whether it be missed top turnbuckle spots or taking an Irish Whip full in the rump.  Forca guy about to take the role of a high risking mask man Gilmour doesn't bump around so much, generally getting snapmares then leglocked by both opponents.  Gilmour isn't a natural heel like Finlay. If Finlay is a scary young thg then Gilmour is the panto villain, leering and twirling his moustache like Aladdin's wicked Uncle Ebenezer. Couderc has a twisted concept of English language imagining that conversation using phrases like "certainly" that must have been part of schoolboy Couderc's mock-English as a child. The sound of a Frenchman hearing the sound of spoken English without actually understanding phrases. "Certainly Non. Never" " I see, certainly no!" and, poking fun at former lightweight champion Saulnier's shirt stature "I am a little English!"

Saulnier 'antics' of which OJ speaks, kick in about a quarter of the way through when he objects to Guy standing on the bottom rope (to lean over for the tag) and Mercier stands on the rope towering over Saulnier like an enraged giant.  When Guy has Finlay in the inverted cross scissors ready to fire him off in a toupee, Mercier has both shoulders occasionally touching the mat and Saulnier has to race back and forth to count the pins.  12 minutes in, Saulnier calls a halt to proceedings for reasons that are unclear.   He tells Guy off again for standing on the rope then blames him for Finlay being knocked off the apron. A standing row between Ben and Arbitre with both jumping up and down ends with Guy dropkicking Saulnier and this earning himself un Premier Avertisment.  Then as Gilmour and Mitchell crisccross Saulnier is hit with a bodycheck by Alan so gets in a backdrop of his own letting Gilmour splash Mitchell for the opening pin.  Mercier tries to break it up but Saulnier declared it a fall. All this and more Couderc finds HILARIOUS. 

Five minutes before the end of the clip, Mitchell gets the equaliser on Finlay, nicely converting from a standing full nelson to a sunset flip. Les Bons refuse to let Saulnier raise their hands.  Later when Finlay has a full Nelson on Mitchell, Guy Mercier comes in, leapfrogs them both, throws Saulnier at Finlay who goes down. Then count's " Saulnier's" "pin" on Finlay  (a variation of and old gag in Britain which Finlay would have seen, where British Ladies Champion Mitzi Mueller would count out for a KO her husband, referee/promoter Brian Dixon) . Needless to say,  Saulnier throws this pin out but soon has to count down a Guy deciding pin on Gilmour. This time Saulnier hold up their arms and they are presented with a plaque - which promptly falls right out of its presentation box!  Oddly this doesn't amuse Couderc. He ends the clip fielding a complaint from Mitchell about Saulnier's refereeing.

Now more famous because of its youngest participant, at the time this was another chapter in the deteriorating relationship between Guy Mercier and Michel Saulnier.

 

[David Mantell]

 

 

On 5/17/2020 at 11:31 AM, ohtani's jacket said:

Jacky Richard & Albert Sanniez vs. Jean Corne & Rene Cabellec (aired 9/8/80)

This was my kind of match. It was like a French version of a maestros tag. I can see people being frustrated by the layout here. Neither team was trying hard to win, and the match didn't build toward any sort of climax. Instead, what we got was great exchange after another. Roger Delaporte ran a tight ship and stayed the fuck out of the way, which surprised me. He operated like a French version of Max Ward. He was biased towards the baby faces and didn't let the heels get away with anything, presumably because of the other refs in the promotion who got in the baby faces' way and cost them matches. In that sense, I suppose he was still one of the stars of the show. The guy who impressed me here was Corne. I thought he was sensational. In fact, I thought he was head and shoulders above anyone in the 80s footage so far. The match ended in a draw, and they did a finish that Joint Promotions used to use where the ref decides the winner. Of course, Delaporte raised the faces' hands. He seemed to like this finish, but judging by the matches that follow, he may have overused it a tad.

There's something not quite right about the colour tone on this recording but I can't put my finger on it.  Might have been  a film print used for transmission. Definitely, not a colour kinescope printed after the event, it's an INA off air recording - the speaking clock coding is on the spare audio channel.

September 1980, same month as the Hannover tournament videos.  Delaporte as referee is the polar opposite of Saulnier, an honest old sheriff who gets tough with the villains (of which he himself was one a few years earlier.) He looks asleep at the start

Starts out quite fast paced.  Heels have a standing  argument with Delaporte. Richard has short grew hair - has he lost a hair match recently?  Also in a red/black leotard.  It all serves to remind that in a decade's time he will be Travesti Mm an throws Caballec and monkey climbs him. Caballec scoots through his legs and delivers two armdrags. Miffed, Richard tags Sanniez who gets two armdrags and a back somersault before Rene gets him down in a headscissors. Twice  Sanniez corkscrew toupees out, the third time he uses his legs to uncork from underneath.  Rene tags Corne and they go into a top wristlock then armdrag. Corne kips up then spins horizontally to a wristlock. Sanniez gets a headlock but Corne gets free then converts to a hammerlock on the other arm then backwards into a folding press. Sanniez gets the arms but Corne rolls back and kicks him. He tags back Richard who fires warnings at Corne but Delaporte will have none of it, he is authority in this ring!  Richard throws Corne who somehow pops up and gets a hammerlock into rear leg trip takedown then hits the ropes for  a flying tackle for 2.  Corne rolls upright from two hiptosses but a Richard takes one badly, floppng out of the ring. 

Things slow down. Richard takes Cabellac down from a top wristlock to armlock on the match. Rene tries bridges and kip ups. Eventually a kip up and double whip forces Richard to take a bump.  Richard gets the armlocks back with help from a hair pull. Rene armdrags out. Richard tags Sanniez. He gets a double leg nelson, then into Bascule then toupee by Rene. Sanniez gets a headlock, Rene breaks it open to a top wristlock into ground armlock.  Sanniez rolls backwards to untwist but Caballec rolls forward to retwist. He high Irish whips Sanniez to force a bump then hiptosses him twice. Sanniez armdrags from a top wristlock twice. He finishes with a monkey climb and Sanniez tags Richard.  Long pause as Richard taunts fans. He snapmares, bodychecks, snapmares again. They run the ropes, Rene backdrops Richard who returns the favour. Rene gets a ground dropkick before tagging Corne. Richard sidesteps the charging  Corne to let him cool off.   Richard gets a front chancery then drops him with a fist. Someone is playing music in the audience and Richard ain't happy!  Complains to everyone but Delaporte says ignore it so he takes the front chancery again.  Corne sins him out. Fans chant, annoying Richard some more.  Corne gets his own front chancery, Richard unfurls his arm and whips Corne but he comes up alright.  Another Corne front facelock sees Richard put him on the ring apron and uppercut him. Now it's Delaporte 's turn to be angry.  Corne rolls upright from three throws.  Richard forearms him and tries agaiñ  with more success on a dazed opponent. 

The heels now have heat.Sanniez attacks Corne on the apron while Richard gets stomps in.  Jacky whips Corne for a hardcbump and puscon an arm extension.  Corne tries for the ropes but Sanniez kicks him off and pleads innocent to L'Arbitre and La Publique, neither of whom believe his protests of innocence.  Corne tries again and pushes Sanniez off the apron.mThis enrages Richard who gives Corne's arm several extra nasty twists and whips before reapplying the straight arm, but Corne curls the arm up to make a side headlock on the mat.  Richard stands up in the hold so Corne turns, converts to a front hammerlock and kneelifts. Both sides tag. Sanniez gets Rene in a full nelson. They reverse a couple of times before Cabellec legdives Sanniez through his own legs. Sanniez bounces Caballec off the ropes and flips him, Cabellec comes flying in for a splash but Richard hauls him off and gets under Delaporte's skin.  Sanniez gets a Japanese stranglehold which Cabellec untwists into double arms.  Sanniez tries to rolls back but Cabellec hooks the legs for a folding press pin attempt which Richard breaks. Les Mechants make great show of a legal tag as Delaporte scolds them.    Richard wins a finger lock but Cabellec flips him off. Richard tries to bearhugs but his opponent tags and Rene gets in a quick double slap. Corne snapmares Richard and gets a cross face on ("un petit estrangement" says the commentator.). Richard struggles for the ropes and as Corne releases, Richard gets the same snapmare and crossface on him.  Corne breaks the hold but Richard thumps and axehandles him. A bit more rhythm to his axehandles and Richard would have made a great member of Demolition 6.5 years later. He gets back the snapmare and this time more of a chinlock with the chin in inside elbow.   It starts to turn into a choke so Delaporte bashed Richard in the eyes to break the hold. A frustrated Richard gets in one more axehandle that would truly make Bill Eadie proud. He splits his time arguing with Delaporte and forearming Corne, finally slamming him. More Demolition style tactics ending with stomping his man on the cord and getting pulled off by the hair by Delaporte who also drags Sanniez back to his corner by the earlobe. The heels take turns to try to distract big Roger while the other does the dirty but not much luck. Richard goes back to the snapmare I to chinlock. Delaporte warns him not to make it a choke.  Corne turns it over into a hammerlock but Richard makes it a snapmare to chinlock again.  His patience worn thin, Jacky lands a closed fist, earning himself a Premier Avertisement. He gets in a couple more slugs.  Les Bons tag. Richard gets a snapmare and bodycheck.  Another snapmares and they hit the ropes before Corne gets a cross buttock press broken by Sanniez who tags in.  He appears to call a piledriver spot, Corne goes for one but throws him off. Sanniez buts Corne in the stomach. Corne backdrops him. Sanniez cross buttocks and presses for a 2 count but Corne turns it over for a 1.  Sanniez gets a wristlock but Corne unhooks it with a foot.   then tries for a cross buttock but Corne makes it a backslide for a 1 count.  He whips and headbutt Sanniez then gets the hot tag to Sanniez who goes wild with the Manchettes. He posts and corners Sanniez (the music that annoyed Richard starts up again.).then flips over and lands in front and lets Sanniez step over him before flipping him into the top turnbuckle and splashing him for 2. Tired, Sanniez tags a well rested Richard who stomps around ("La Il et Mauvais" - "ain't he BAD" - says the commentator. )  He gets his snapmares into chinlock which again becomes a choke. Delaporte reprimands him and Cadellac comes in and startles him by tapping him on the back of the head. Richard rains down blows as Delaporte ushers Rene out. Richard gets a slam and an uppercut then Corne hits back with two uppercuts of his own.  Richard gets a side headlock but Corne breaks it open into a wristlock. Richard gets a rope break then chinlock and takedown. Corne gets the wrist again and converts to a hammerlock but Richard rope breaks.

Match is getting a bit quieter, 25min in with nil score. Both men standing around having a breather. Richard gets a full nelson, Corne drops out., ground dropkicks Richard and ties him in the ropes. He is going to pummel Richard but Delaporte charmingly talks him out of it. Roger and Sanniez unleash Richard . Corne bodyslams and forearms Richard who tags Sanniez . They exchange forearms and Cabellec tags in to continue the treatment. He slingshoots and butts Sanniez in the stomach, then forearms and snapmares him. Sanniez comes back with a dropkick and hauls his man up by the hair for a forearm smash. Richard tags back in with a powerful uppercut, a slam, and then an illegal axehandle and stomp on his fallen opponent.   Nice burst of heat from the crowd and private warning from Delaporte. They argue while Sanniez gets in a stomp from outside. This distracts Delaporte so Richard can illegally lift Cabellec off the mat for a forearm, snapmare and illegal punch. Delaporte gets back in time for Richard's two snapmares and bodycheck and a rolling headbutt response from Cabellec. But Jacky is up first with a forearm as the MC announces 3 minutes left. Sanniez tags in and makes the cover American style but is refused by Delaporte under no follow downs. So he slams Cabellec and tries again with double knees but Cabellec knee smashes him from the ground, leaving him running to tag Richard. He floors Cabellec and hits with a forearm and a blatant closed fist punch. He starts reading Richard the riot act as prelude to a Deuxieme Et Dernier Avertisement but Sanniez reaches in and the moment is lost. Two minutes left. Richard gets un Manchette. Corne makes the hot tag with dropkicks and forearms. That Celtic music starts up. Richard is off the ring and looking to do a runner while Corne is still busy with forearms. He knocks Sanniez out of the ring too. Richard comes in and eats more Manchettes. Thirty seconds. Cabellec back in, grans Richard's ears forca big headbutt then a couple of dropkicks. Time runs out and Sanniez gets in and gets one last dropkick.  Les Vertes get the decision. Les Mechants orotest. The Celtic music plays triumphantly. It is 11:10pm and back to the studio for the news. Recording ends, clip ends.

One very action packed full time match. A lot of good technical tricks, enough to make it worth the blow by blow treatment. 

 

 

 

 

[Phil Lions]

On 4/23/2020 at 6:12 AM, ohtani's jacket said:

Roger Delaporte vs. Jean Fryziuk (aired 5/3/62)

Up until now, we've seen Delaporte take on foreign wrestlers and the big French stars. This was the first time to watch him take on someone at Fryziuk's level.  I was curious to see whether Delaporte would elevate Fryziuk to the same level as him or just coast. The verdict? Another wild, rollicking affair. Fryziuk seemed to have bulked up and was unrecognizable from earlier matches. In fact, I had my doubts over whether it was the same guy, but perhaps he moved up a weight. I'm starting to wonder if Delaporte was some kind of genius. Early on, I described Bollet as being the Mick McManus of catch, but that's clearly wrong. If there was a McManus, it's Delaporte. I swear, everything he does is entertaining. Every hold, every gesture, every mannerism. I get bored easily wile watching wrestling, but every second of Delaporte match is entertaining. He is the only wrestler I have ever seen who can make a 40 minute match feel like a four minute clip. He has almost no technical ability but is unparalleled as a performer. When you read about Couderc's commentary, and the spectacle that was French catch, it was Delaporte at the heart of it.

Here's a fun fact that I've been reading more about these past couple of days: this match got catch taken off TV. Not because of anything that happened in it, but because of the political ramifications of it. Here's what happened.

First of all, just as a reminder, RTF's original agreement was with the four major promotions based out of Paris, which were to share the air time on the network. In early 1960 Jean Fryziuk, frustrated with the direction the business was headed in at the time (in his own words, too many masked gimmicks and too much clowning around), created his own promotion. Initially it was a small "indie" promotion with only a handful of affiliated wrestlers so despite now having his own company Fryziuk did continue taking some dates for the big promotions here and there too. In 1961, in the wake of L'Ange Blanc deciding to unmask and in the fallout from that, a bunch of guys left the Goldstein promotion, most importantly Goldstein's top mechants - Delaporte and Bollet. This was also when allegiances shifted a bit in the world of French catch as the Lageat/Siry promotion left the Goldstein/Chausson camp and joined up with Durand. After leaving Goldstein and up to the spring of 1962 Delaporte and Bollet were working for the Lageat/Siry/Durand group and then they, along with some others, joined forces with Fryziuk's promotion and tried to position that as the third major group. The name of the governing body for the promotion was Fédération Française de Lutte et de Catch Autonome (FFLCA). So when RTF decided to air the Delaporte vs. Fryziuk match, a FFLCA match, the other promoters raised a big fuss about this. Phone calls, threats, insults... The relationship of the promoters with RTF was already strained anyway, but this put things over the top. Roger Couderc, who had done the commentary for the Delaporte/Fryziuk match, announced that he's quitting catch commentary because of how much grief the promoters had been giving him and in general he was tired of dealing with their BS. Also, and more importantly, the head of sports at RTF Raymond Marcillac petitioned the head of the network to remove catch from the sports department of the network (his department) and put it in the hands of the entertainment department so that he didn't have to deal with the promoters anymore. He was tired of all the drama that came with dealing with the promoters and wanted nothing to do with them anymore. As a result catch was now off TV.

Catch did return to TV later in 1962, but then got taken off TV again in 1963 only to be brought back in October 1963 when the promoters finally came to an agreement amongst themselves. So, in case you want to keep score: catch got taken off TV for a while on three separate occasions in the early 1960s (1961, 1962 and 1963).

And just as a side note, here's where things stood in mid 1962 in terms of talent:
- Goldstein/Chausson group: Voiney, Simunovich, Duranton, Hi Lee, Chemoul, Gueret, Amor, Said, Dula, Montreal, etc.
- Lageat/Siry/Durand group: L'Ange, Bourreau, Leduc, Lasartesse, Gastel, Brown, Montourcy, Corn, Kamikaze, Laroche, etc.
- FFLCA: Delaporte, Bollet, Fryziuk, Di Santo, Zarzecki, Calderon, Straub, Robert, etc.

[ohtani's jacket]

Thanks, Phil. I was vaguely aware of this story thanks to old French TV guide articles but was unsure about the full details. 

[Phil Lions]

2 minutes ago, ohtani's jacket said:

Thanks, Phil. I was vaguely aware of this story thanks to old French TV guide articles but was unsure about the full details. 

Yep. I just finally managed to get my hands on that magazine (the one with Delaporte on the cover), along with some other stuff from around the same time, and this is how I managed to piece everything together.

[David Mantell]

Like I said, I think the early 60s episode is why French TV opted not to have a big Greg Dyke song and dance about Cancelling in the mid late 80s, instead presenting the end of wrestling on terrestrial TV to the public as being a series of channel changes - A2 to FR3 to TF1 to Eurosport. Once bitten twice shy. In reality, Eurosport replaced terrestrial wrestling in both countries at the turn of 88 to 89.

[Phil Lions]

I don't think what was happening in the early 1960s has any connection whatsoever to what was happening in the 1980s. Completely different times with completely different people in charge. I highly doubt anyone remembered what had happened in the 1960s, let alone was basing any decisions on stuff that had happened in the 1960s. In the 1960s whenever catch got taken off TV the public would demand it back. By the 1980s I don't think the public cared that much, if at all, so I doubt the networks felt any pressure whatsoever about cancelling catch or gave it that much thought.

[David Mantell]

1 hour ago, Phil Lions said:

I don't think what was happening in the early 1960s has any connection whatsoever to what was happening in the 1980s. Completely different times with completely different people in charge. I highly doubt anyone remembered what had happened in the 1960s, let alone was basing any decisions on stuff that had happened in the 1960s. In the 1960s whenever catch got taken off TV the public would demand it back. By the 1980s I don't think the public cared that much, if at all, so I doubt the networks felt any pressure whatsoever about cancelling catch or gave it that much thought.

I think they'd had a bad experience the previous time so didn't want to make trouble if they could avoid it.

It didn't help them that the WWF was at a more advanced stage in France (and Italy where they revived a territory mostly dark since 1965.) than in Britain. By the time of A2>FR3, WWF was well established on Canal +, by the time of the last Old Catch on FR3 in November 1987, WWF had held an exploratory Paris live show, by the time New Catch's initial TF1 run was over, WWF had not just held a bigger Paris show with Savage, Akeem, Demolition, the Bulldogs and a ladies title change on the bill but screened it in America on Prime Time.  All the British had was six WWF specials and late night Challenge billed as Superstars Of Wrestling (which went underneath Greg Dyke's Radar anyway.)

Greg Dyke could have done the same approach but he WANTED to make a big fuss about cancelling wrestling on ITV to impress advertisers with how upscale and Yuppy his network was becoming so he had that special press conference at a TV fair in Switzerland to announce it. 

It is interesting how differently the two countries' TV industries handled what was essentially the same parallel development.

[Phil Lions]

1 hour ago, David Mantell said:

I think they'd had a bad experience the previous time so didn't want to make trouble if they could avoid it.

This is where I don't agree with your premise. There is no universal "they". The "they" in the 1960s were a completely different group of people than the "they" in the 1980s, and so was the TV landscape in general. Your premise is somewhat akin to saying that if Warner Bros. Discovery decided to cancel AEW tomorrow they'd base their handling of the cancellation on how AOL TimeWarner handled the WCW cancellation back in 2001. They won't. It's ancient history at this point. TV executives don't care about what happened 25 years ago to another group of executives. They only care about what is happening now and what will be happening going forward.

[David Mantell]

4 minutes ago, Phil Lions said:

This is where I don't agree with your premise. There is no universal "they". The "they" in the 1960s were a completely different group of people than the "they" in the 1980s, and so was the TV landscape in general. Your premise is somewhat akin to saying that if Warner Bros. Discovery decided to cancel AEW tomorrow they'd base their handling of the cancellation on how AOL TimeWarner handled the WCW cancellation back in 2001. They won't. It's ancient history at this point. TV executives don't care about what happened 25 years ago to another group of executives. They only care about what is happening now and what will be happening going forward.

I'd imagine an exec today would scrap AEW exactly the way Jamie Kellner scrapped WCW unless they were a wrestling fan (unlikely in such circles) in which case they would replace it with some better wrestling.

If a show survives a cancellation attempt due to lobbying by a hardcore fan base, execs will be careful if they try again (compared the flagrancy of Michael Grade canning Doctor Who in 1985 to execs quietly scrapping it in 1990.)

If ITV had a past bad experience cancelling wrestling -  or if the WWF's UK Invasion had been more advanced - Greg Dyke wouldn't have been so cocky about it in 1988.