French catch

[David Mantell]

On 6/11/2025 at 2:55 PM, Phil Lions said:

If you have ever wanted to listen to someone speaking for two hours on the topics of French catch history, Gilbert Leduc in particular and what makes Leduc a strong candidate on the 2025 WON HOF ballot, well, you're in luck. I just did a podcast about that. Available here, on YouTube and the usual podcasting platforms.

I don't do podcasts often, if ever, but this particular topic was just too interesting for me to say no to. Plus, Ryan is an excellent host, who does his own research and comes in prepared. Definitely recommend checking out other episodes of his "The Ballot" podcast if you're into detailed WON HOF talk.

Thanks Phil, I enjoyed that.  Listened to it in installments through the night.

A few points:

1) The toupee needed further discussion.  I know you mentioned headscissors and therefore escape from headscissors but both forms of the toupee - the corkscrew escape from headscissors and the headscissor throw using the skull as a fulcrum - were big parts of Leduc's arsenal.  I was watching a 1983 Flesh Gordon bout last night and commentator Daniel Cazal was on about LeDuc being a toupee specialist, all those years afterwards.

2) I suspect that France, like Britain, focussed on intensity of touring rather than individual giant houses.  For the Wikipedia article "List of professional wrestling attendance records in the United Kingdom" I addressed the issue thus: "In its heyday, British-based Joint Promotions and its independent rivals generally relied on intensive touring rather than major individual shows - by the mid 1960s Joint had an annual touring schedule of between 4000 and 5000 house shows including weekly residencies in over thirty cities". I expect there may be some similar statistic relating to French Catch.

3) I liked the bit about Le Petit Prince - he would have been a more natural choice to get a Catcheur into the WO HOF.  Probably - as with this thread - the voting panel could do with an influx of older French fans who grew up with Le Catch and have instinctive natural reactions to some of its (to the rest of us) more alien aspects. I was quite interested in the guy who was a fan who became a ring announcer who had a large archive of research. Maybe he has a JN Lister style archive of TV broadcast info.

4) erm,  TV wrestling in France* didn't end in 1985, it just decamped to FR3 that summer where it stayed until the end of 1987 - with the 1988 TF1 preview run of New Catch as a coda (taking things up to ten days after The Final Bell.)

*(as in unscrambled, terrestrial analogue broadcasts of indigenous wrestling) 

[Phil Lions]

1 hour ago, David Mantell said:

Thanks Phil, I enjoyed that.  Listened to it in installments through the night.

A few points:

1) The toupee needed further discussion.  I know you mentioned headscissors and therefore escape from headscissors but both forms of the toupee - the corkscrew escape from headscissors and the headscissor throw using the skull as a fulcrum - were big parts of Leduc's arsenal.  I was watching a 1983 Flesh Gordon bout last night and commentator Daniel Cazal was on about LeDuc being a toupee specialist, all those years afterwards.

2) I suspect that France, like Britain, focussed on intensity of touring rather than individual giant houses.  For the Wikipedia article "List of professional wrestling attendance records in the United Kingdom" I addressed the issue thus: "In its heyday, British-based Joint Promotions and its independent rivals generally relied on intensive touring rather than major individual shows - by the mid 1960s Joint had an annual touring schedule of between 4000 and 5000 house shows including weekly residencies in over thirty cities". I expect there may be some similar statistic relating to French Catch.

3) I liked the bit about Le Petit Prince - he would have been a more natural choice to get a Catcheur into the WO HOF.  Probably - as with this thread - the voting panel could do with an influx of older French fans who grew up with Le Catch and have instinctive natural reactions to some of its (to the rest of us) more alien aspects.

4) erm,  TV wrestling in France* didn't end in 1985, it just decamped to FR3 that summer where it stayed until the end of 1987 - with the 1988 TF1 preview run of New Catch as a coda (taking things up to ten days after The Final Bell.)

*(as in unscrambled, terrestrial analogue broadcasts of indigenous wrestling) 

Thank you for taking time out to listen to it!

1) There was a lot of ground to cover and focusing on a move wasn't part of my plan heading in. In fact, had Ryan not brought it up I probably wouldn't have even thought to talk about it. By the way, the correct French spelling is "toupie".

2) Absolutely. The French model was similar to the UK one (intense touring), which is why I compared the two briefly at one point. However, unlike the UK, in France they did also run big 10,000+ buildings too such as the regular shows at Palais des Sports in Paris (up to 1959) and the occasional summer events at the bullrings in Marseille/Bordeaux/Beziers, the Amphitheatre in Nimes, etc.

4) French catch's run as regular standalone series on national television was 1954-1985. Everything after that I consider to be part of a different era in catch's history. There was no catch on national TV in 1986 at all so 1985 really is the best cut-off point between the original run and everything else that might've followed.
 

23 hours ago, ohtani's jacket said:

Neat accent.

Thanks! 🙂 It used to be better, but I'm a bit out of practice. Hadn't really talked in English at length in a few years.

[David Mantell]

On 6/13/2025 at 9:04 AM, Phil Lions said:

Thank you for taking time out to listen to it!

1) There was a lot of ground to cover and focusing on a move wasn't part of my plan heading in. In fact, had Ryan not brought it up I probably wouldn't have even thought to talk about it. By the way, the correct French spelling is "toupie".

2) Absolutely. The French model was similar to the UK one (intense touring), which is why I compared the two briefly at one point. However, unlike the UK, in France they did also run big 10,000+ buildings too such as the regular shows at Palais des Sports in Paris (up to 1959) and the occasional summer events at the bullrings in Marseille/Bordeaux/Beziers, the Amphitheatre in Nimes, etc.

4) French catch's run as regular standalone series on national television was 1954-1985. Everything after that I consider to be part of a different era in catch's history. There was no catch on national TV in 1986 at all so 1985 really is the best cut-off point between the original run and everything else that might've followed.

1) IThe toupie (thanks for the spelling correction) is one of those little things that French people of a certain age can be triggered by into nostalgic introversion (like "No, not the ears!" would do for similarly aged Brits).

In a similar vein I would propose "Two falls, two submissions or a knockout" and "Deux Manches et une Belle s'il y a eu" as being idiomatic equivalents.  We British still use the former phrase metaphorically, I would not be surprised if the equivalent is true in France.

2) One particular issue I've had with American fans when discussing the cultural magnitude of pro wrestling on either side of the pond, is that they do harp on about live attendance as the sole barometer (other than how much money made!) of legit success at pro wrestling.

4) Okay. I tend to equate the channel move more with the end of World Of Sport that summer. It does seem logical that if that new TF1/Eurosport show was New Catch, then FR3 broadcasts 1985-1987 must be part of Old Catch, so to speak.

[David Mantell]

On 6/11/2025 at 10:07 PM, ohtani's jacket said:

Vassilios Mantopoulos/Ischa Israel vs. Billy Catanzaro/Gilbert Lemagourou, 6/19/66

Did we ever figure out how to spell Mantopoulos and Lemagourou's names correctly? That type of shit used to bother me all the time when I was writing up these reviews. 

This was the type of catch that I fell in love with. Just a bunch of tricked out matwork. You could argue that it was form over substance, but I thought they did a decent job of shaping the match for the studio audience. There was some stooging and brawling that I could have done without, but I realized that it was necessary for the spectators. It was great to see Catanzaro working some holds. Like so many others, Catanzaro was my gateway to catch back when we really only had the one match available. It's cool that he's part of this new haul, and I liked this match a lot better than the other tags he had with Lemagourou. Props to Israel, too. One of the most underrated guys in catch. I'm not as big a fan of Mantopoulos as I probably should be, but I thought having a rock solid guy like israel in his corner helped him do his stylist thing without seeming like he was off on his own island somewhere. Fun match within the confines of the setting.

On 6/12/2025 at 9:09 AM, David Mantell said:

I've not seen any French Catch done in a TV Studio a la Southern US Wrestling (the only European use of this format I know of is that late 70s German TV Show where Roland Bock wrestles a bear and there is a tag match beforehand). Maybe it was a particularly odd looking smaller live show venue.

I've had a skim view of the match. I'll do a full review soon.  The bits I saw looked good and fast.

I guess this wasn't a dedicated pro wrestling show.  There were a bunch of musical instruments set up at ringside including a full drumkit.  On a modern wrestling TV show that would be ASKING for trouble.  I guess they had other stuff on that show like bands and it was just a variety/entertainment show that had a wrestling match on one week.

[David Mantell]

There's something very inevitable about Johnny Halliday popping up on any piece of 60s French pop culture.  They were enormously proud of the guy, no one else gets why.  Madame Catanzaro et Les Gosses are also on commentary - they would repeat this thing of humanising the heel by introducing you to his family with Pierre Lagache one time in the early 70s we've already seen.

Apart from a few curtains, the ring is set up in front of a big, brightly lit backcloth which looks like a sun or a gas giant planet blazing away in the background.

Vassilios is totally the star, constantly spinning around, s original g both straight falls, tying one heel up in the ball position. His only jeopardy moment is when he crashes into the tuxedo clad lounge lizard referee and gets an Avertisement for his troubles.  Les Mechants are mostly there to be Vas's comedy stooges - like twin Cyanide Syd Coopers  at an Elvis convention.  They look oddly small - it's hard to relate Catanzaro to the hardened Steve Logan mk1-esque quiffed thug I saw in a 1971 bout.  I.I. meanwhile seems to be an afterthought - he tags in, the heels get some mild heat, he makes the hot tag, the heels lose it again.

Vassilios Mantopolous is fantastic but this is as much a vehicle for him as a Big Daddy tag is for Big Daddy.  I would rather prefer to see him in a competent clean match against one of the top lightweight stars of the era like George Kidd, Le Petit Prince, Rene Ben Chemoul, Michel Saulnier - indeed just across La Manche in 66 there was a kid called Johnny Saint who was making waves around now (and who we know later wrestled in France albeit not in TV.)

 

[David Mantell]

On 6/13/2025 at 9:36 AM, David Mantell said:

In a similar vein I would propose "Two falls, two submissions or a knockout" and "Deux Manches et une Belle s'il y a eu" as being idiomatic equivalents.  We British still use the former phrase metaphorically, I would not be surprised if the equivalent is true in France.

Just found out that the French phrase was originally a literary reference.

https://www.bdtheque.com/series/19039/deux-manches-et-la-belle

Or maybe the book title was a Lutte Grecoromain reference and they were already doing best of three falls even before Catch.

[David Mantell]

Well done to @Phil Lions for acknowledging the Modern Era and the 2007 boom in Catch in France, by the way.

To underscore the point here are those two loveable rascals Flesh and Zefy, 20 years after beating Marquis Jacky Richard and Jessy Texas on FR3, taking on Horacio the pirate whom we've met before (in a frilly sailor top that looks suspiciously like a ladies' blouse) and a new heel from Italy Kaio - not to be confused with Kato Bruce Lee from circa 1983 but a young Italian heel with his country's tricolore painted as a stripe across one eye, on whatever channel this was on.

We join the action in progress, each side takes a fall then celebrates by knocking the opposition to ringside and getting a yellow card/Avertisement for their efforts. Zefy gets round the no exciting the public rule by doing a Walter Bordes style war dance which is just to rev himself up, honest guv.  The crowd get their Aux Chiottes L'Arbitre chant in after the ref refuses Zefy's rope break for a posting.  There's a fairly long section where Zefy does a giant swing on Kaio then keeps the double legs and it's not clear if he's going for another swing, a slingshot or a Boston Crab.  The finish has Gordon at ringside using someone's crutch to immobilise Horacio snake handler style while Zefy, after some effort, does a top rope superplex on Kaio for the win.  Zefy doesn't otherwise do much of his high flying stuff. The odd dropkick and that's it.

We've seen this venue with its big and red hot crowd before. Yes Phil, this was definitely the good times.

 

[David Mantell]

Just to show you all that French Catch of that era was not ALL kiddy fun with Flesh, here is a more serious title bout  with then recently crowned European Heavyweight Champion Erik Isaksen of Norway giving his predecessor Bernard Van Damme a return match.

Okay we'll get Monsieur L'Arbitre out the way quickly. Long hair. red satin shirt, looks like a cheesy cabaret piano player. Never mind him.

I've done some looking up of Isaksen, I can't find this IWSF version of the title but Erik has held a good few other versions - by the ICWA (the French FWA) a year earlier in 2006 and by the UEWA in 2015 at a time when All Star Wrestling in Britain may have been a member. The belt looks like the WWF Flags belt from WM2 and WM3. Erik spends a long time after the start at ringside antagonising the (rather youthful looking and gender balanced)  Publique, to the point where once he got back in after the ref threatened him with an Avertisement I sighed with relief.

Once up and running, Erik was by far the more interesting wrestler, a real smug git of a heel with a touch of Brian "Leon Arras" Glover about him. He angers the crowd so much the MC has to quietly and gently persuade them to kindly NOT throw paper balls!  He does Kendo Nagasaki's Kamikaze Crash (diving fireman's carry) as well as a fireman's carry side slam with which he nearly gets a fall and might have got it if not for his arrogant pin cover, kneeling on his opponent while flexing his biceps. 

Bernard, despite his name, is nothing like Rob or indeed Jean Claude. His gimmick is kind of Warrior meets Jimmy Snuka.  He tries for a headscissors at one point but Erik turns it into a powerbomb. BVD does get the Scisseaux Volees later after picking Erik off the top turnbuckle and slamming him.  He finally gets the win with a flying bodypress to regain his title.

 

[David Mantell]

On 6/8/2025 at 8:40 PM, David Mantell said:

Flesh Gordon got discussed at length on the Jim Cornette's Drive Thru edition 395.   My Wikipedia article on him got read out at length by Brian Last, I'm feeling rather pleased with myself.

Videos as soon as they are posted. Hopefully Travis Heckel wil do some photo research.  I expect we will get old bald tubby moustachioed Flesh as that is on the article but you never know we might get late 80s/early 90s Flesh with the long hair and in good shape.  I doubt we will get the young boyish Flesh from the tag team with Walter Bordes (Jim made a joke about him.)

On 6/10/2025 at 7:09 PM, David Mantell said:

Discussion is at 1:26:32.

1:26:32

well Jim I have a a couple emails here before we get to the roster want to ask about this one cuz uh

1:26:38

it made me laugh this was sent to cornydgmail.com from Brian in Wal

1:26:44

England hope you guys are well i have a three-part question for Jim in relation

1:26:51

to Flesh Gordon who had several tryyout matches

1:26:56

in the WWE back in the early 2000s did he say Flesh Gordon that's what he said

1:27:03

was Jim ever aware of this guy in WWE developmental did he spend time in OBVW

1:27:10

have you seen his dark match on Smackdown versus Sin Bodi among other

1:27:15

matches thank you do you remember a wrestler named I my first thought was he's confusing

1:27:22

flesh with Flash but then I was like did Flash Flanigan do this no no

1:27:28

and there was a Flash Gordon movie that was I think in the late 70s it was when

1:27:34

they were still shooting porn on 35 millimeter it was a big budget oh my god flash Gordon takeoff there's a there is

1:27:41

a wrestler named Flesh Gordon okay flesh Gordon i'm afraid to ask what

1:27:48

his gimmick is well Flesh Gordon who uh is a French wrestler his real name is

1:27:53

Gerard Hurvey he has been a dominant fan favorite is he a brother of Jason Hervey

1:28:02

he's he's been a Why did that get me he's been a dominant fan favorite in

1:28:07

France since the 1980s when his matches began airing on national television since the 1980s how old is this [ __ ]

1:28:14

guy he was born June of 53 he's 71 now jesus Christ did this does this guy just

1:28:21

asking if we was in OBVW or something what did he say in the early 2000s uh let me see if it says anything here

1:28:26

about WWE having practiced boxing from the age of 14 as well as

1:28:32

pancration in the 1970s he went to Mexico and discovered lucha libre he started wrestling as super

1:28:40

flesh by 1979 he returned home and made his debut on French TV wrestling

1:28:45

initially under his real name but soon adopting the flesh Gordon identity he wrestled for the

1:28:53

FFCP regularly teaming with Walter Bours with Oh well if he he's okay with

1:29:00

Walter he's okay with me with whom he held the FCP French tag team championship later in the decade he

1:29:06

would team with Prince Zephy he became a regular on Euro Sports New Catch program

1:29:12

also appearing in Wales for Welsh Channel

1:29:17

S4C's Reslo Wrestling Show and home video releases by German CWA now I know

1:29:24

them the point is if this guy was born in 1953 what [ __ ] how old was he did

1:29:30

they think he was going to be in OBVW or get a try out or be in

1:29:35

developmental or whatever the [ __ ] and he was in his 50s he became the European champion in 1988 the world light

1:29:40

heavyweight champion in '92 and then created a wrestling school in '95 the Belgian TV show Strip Tease devoted an

1:29:48

episode to him entitled Flesh Gordon and the Firemen he has been wrestling for French

1:29:54

wrestling promotion wrestling stars since its creation in 2001 and holds the position of national

1:30:01

technical director so you don't remember flesh in this

1:30:10

no I I do not remember old fleshy if I Google flesh is he is is he still

1:30:17

wrestling or is now is he's just a technical director also it says here Flesh Gordon is a 1974 American

1:30:24

superhero sex comedy which is a spoof of the Universal Pictures Flash Gordon serial films of the

1:30:30

30s all right I've not seen that smut i'll see if we can find the copy of that but uh no knowledge of Flesh Gordon what

1:30:38

do you think of the name Flesh Gordon well for a porn movie I think it's pretty [ __ ] neat for a wrestler not

1:30:45

so much I don't think because again what how would you go out and portray

1:30:52

that you'd be dressed up as a space traveler except that you're [ __ ] thrusting your dick in people's face i

1:30:58

don't know what flesh Gordon

YAY!

I was hoping Travis Heckel would draw Jim as the older tubbier Herve of the C21st.

 

[ohtani's jacket]

Le Petit Prince vs. Jacky Richard (11/6/66)

Wow, a Petit Prince match. How did this one slip through the cracks? With all the discourse shifting to Twitter these days, you'd think Petit Prince would have blown up more, but alas. This was a fairly simple match, but highlighted the Prince's babyface fire and his awesome selling ability. His wrestling skills were mostly used to tease his opponent before enacting a little revenge, but we saw flashes of what made Prince so amazing. We also received confirmation that Jacky Richard was young once. Richard was always a limited worker but good in his role and that's what you get from the younger Richard. Not one of the Prince's better matches, but he only had a finite amount of matches on television so it's better to not look a gift horse in the mouth. 

[David Mantell]

16 hours ago, ohtani's jacket said:

Le Petit Prince vs. Jacky Richard (11/6/66)

Wow, a Petit Prince match. How did this one slip through the cracks? With all the discourse shifting to Twitter these days, you'd think Petit Prince would have blown up more, but alas. This was a fairly simple match, but highlighted the Prince's babyface fire and his awesome selling ability. His wrestling skills were mostly used to tease his opponent before enacting a little revenge, but we saw flashes of what made Prince so amazing. We also received confirmation that Jacky Richard was young once. Richard was always a limited worker but good in his role and that's what you get from the younger Richard. Not one of the Prince's better matches, but he only had a finite amount of matches on television so it's better to not look a gift horse in the mouth. 

Portrait of the Monsieur/Marquis/Travesti Man as a young Jacky, going up against late 60s and 70s France's most attractive babyface. 

Sneery commentator calls the bout a cultural and educational experience (a less laboured version of the paintings thing 3 years later. Both are in capes which makes the into a bit confusing.  Apparently Dubail has a day job as an "industrial designer".   Plenty of TV wrestlers on both sides of La Manche had day jobs, sometimes middle class ones.  Richard has trunks instead of his later tight.

LPP established as the star early on - Richard knees him over but he rolls backwards into upright and fires a dropkick - all in one motion. Both men can reverse inverted front chancery presses on the mat but Richard  has to resort to a blow to break a Prince bridge. The two way inverted front chancery being reversed and surviving snapmares is the story of the early part of the bout. Eventually Jacky gets a leglock and it's the same story - the submission hold version of La Bascule,, the same hold both way but dominance flipping back and forth.  Even after Dubail boots Richard from behind he comes right back with the same single leglock. Both of them try to convert to a single leg Boston Crab at the same moments leaving themselves standing in a back to back standing tug of war for the two intertwined legs.  At one point Dubail sells his right knee but Richard takes the left. This might not be a botch as he traps the leg in the ropes - perhaps his gameplay is to work on both knees. After some heelish stomping on the grounded Prince, he is freed from the ropes and Richard goes for the right knee while holding the other leg bent with his foot.

On the second attempt LPP monkey climbs out, slips through Richard's legs and dropkicks him.  He snapmares Richard, goes through the legs, does a half cartwheel half vault over Richard who is tryingf or a backdrop and headscissors and throws him twice, goes up into the Victory Roll position but flips backwards behind Richard, nips forward through his legs and rear snapmares him and gets a rear chinlock into side headlock. WHEW!!!  Tough to do, even tougher to note it all down!  

Richard tries for an atomic drop but Prince rolls through to keep the side headlock.  He tries again. Same result. Prince transitions to armbars to double rear leg takedown to flip into bridge so as to cross the legs into a Gotch toehold the roll round the leg end of maximum leverage. Even the sneery commentator is impressed "Elle est belle ce prise du Petit Prince!". Dubail presses down to stop a pushup escape and uses his feet to keep his toehold while escaping an over the shoulder chancery attempt.  LPP turns it over into an Indian Death lock. He uses a Manchette so avoid sit up counter attacks. 

Richard finally mat suplexes out and fires off a couple of angry Manchettes and some kicks which put Prince out of the ring.  It's mostly stomps and Manchettes other than one good over the knee backbreaker.  Clean versus dirty has replaced two way hold stalemate as the dominant theme,  Prince gets pitched DEEP in the crowd onto the lap of some lucky lady who starts mothering him like mad.  Bouncers stop her from putting him in her handbag to take home and he gets back on the ring apron then knocked into the next door seat to the said Lucky Lady.  Crowd are now spitting heat, besieging the ring South London Hellcrew style.  Arbitre holds Richard back. One angry hold man calls the ref a "Salopard.". Look it up if you don't know!  Prince gets back to the ring for more Manchettes, kicks and another fine over the knee backbreaker.  Prince gets his hope spot with Manchettes of his own and a series of 3 dropkicks.  He ties Richard in the ropes (with difficulty and fires off superkicks as well as more Manchettes. A dropkick catches Jacky just as he frees himself.  

Prince gets a wristlever and reverse cartwheels and reverse somersaults on it to make it tighter. He then clamps on a headscissors. Twice Richard snaps out but is taken back down with the headscissor reapplied.  He switches back to wristlever and Richard rolls back to untwist the arm but Prince catches him in a front chancery.  He then somersaults sideways mid air into the flying headscissors position taking his man down in the scissorhold once more. He convers to an armhank (sadly a crowd shot conceals all of how this was done)  and turns Richard over in the hold, rubbing away on the shoulder muscles. Richard eventually stands up in the hold and dumps Prince to ringside. besieging him on his return with stomps and Manchettes. Prince does a Steve Grey horizontal spin on the mat to turn a wristlock into a more powerful hammerlock. He fires a dropkick, forearm, two monkey climbs, the second converting into a sunset flip and double leg nelson for 2. This becomes a Bascules of back and forth leg press pin attempts. Prince eventually gets a flying headscissor throw. Richard fights back with the dirty stuff sending Prince out of the ring and the crowd whistles the bird at him ("a concert of music provided by the public' says the sneery commentator.)  . Prince seems to miss a flying tackle into the ring but catches Richard with a ground dropkick as he follows in and splashes him for the one fall required. Richard looks disgusted, puts his hands up vainly then quits.

Vehicle for the Prince, his skills as a technical wrestler and his skills as a crowd sympathiable babyface. Young Jacky was the heel jobber reminding me a lot of Psycho Shane Stevens two decades later, young, spiky and angry.

 

[David Mantell]

We've talked about this match a fair bit.  Broadcast on Sports Loisirs, a sports package show. The only other bout we have from this slot is Flesh and Zefy Vs Jacky Richard & Jessy Texas, but this in the only INA match although reportedly they broadcast quite a few more going up to November 1987.

This was a Saturday and the speaking clock says just after 1530h.  

Ted Jones sou ds like he should be Welsh but is actually Belgian - with a German flag to prove it.  Karl Von Kramer is most certainly not Carl "Barbarian Karl Kramer" Davies (who made his one and only ITV appearance 5 months later teaming with brother Wolf to job to Big Daddy and Marty Jones) but I don't think he's the 50s/60s one either - I think someone told me it was his son.  Funny looking venue with wooden pillars  and matching ceiling beams.  There is a potted palm plant. Ring has a shiny skirt like it's going out nightclubbing after the matches.  The corners are covered by pillowcase things saying "OFFOY".  Kramer has an old male manager in a Panama hat - we later learn that his name is "FRITZ VON ERICH".   Someone's been reading their American magazines.  He undies the turnbuckle cover and a little bit tries to stop him.  Jones has two dolly birds.   Maybe I imagined it but I'm sure on a previous viewing I saw the two naughty girlies pull poor old Fritz's chair out from under him.  International referee Louis De Flamenca is in a red jacket like a circus ringmaster. 

Most of the bout is slow strength holds and dirtied. Not inspiring to write a blow by blow account.  A Continental version of Bully Boy Muir Vs Collin Joynson.  Jones gets some good cross buttock throws on the bigger Kramer. He dumps him on the ringside. He uses a neat swinging motion to break open a seated chinlock into a standing top wristlock.  He uses an over the shoulder slam to counter an inverted front chancery. At one point Kramer is pounding him on the ropes  and he takes Kramer over one shoulder and Arbitre Louis over the other and throws them both out with him.  

A spectator tries to pull Jones out of the ring, Jones goes out and wallops him.  They don't throw him out, just sit him down, so maybe this was an angle like  Fred Magnier running in during the late 70s Michel Di Santo Vs Michel Chaidne bout and getting a kicking from DiSanto and Delaporte. Karl gets the win and a Euro championship after taking advantage while Jones is being pulled off the ropes. Afterwards we get what Jim Cornette calls an Afterbirth while Jones is beating up both Kramer and L'Arbitre. 

Not the most inspiring end to Alessio's last playlist (he needs to add Flesh/Zefy Vs Richard/Jessy.) but New Catch would see better moments.  

 

 

[David Mantell]

This appears to have been filmed in the same location as the Mantopolous tag match above.  No sign of the drumkit from the other match although at the end I spy a grand piano with a pianist all ready to go.  It's the same plain white backdrop. Actually I think it's a cinema rather than a TV studio and that is the screen. (Over in Britain,  Granada Cinemas had Paul Lincoln promotions shows at their cinemas which were then filmed and the prints bicycled round the country - there's even an example on the British Wrestling thread, the Wild Man of Borneo bout).

Gessard (no moustache) and Bayle start off.  Good fast technical start Manneuvaux (moustache  - Couderc makes a silly remark about the tache's lone weight). tags in and gets kicked out of the ring. Gessard in, keeps Bayle in a headscissors.  Manneuvaux takes down the other Bon (I think it's Dan Aubriot).  with a knee to the base of the spine and applies a headlock.  He really looks sinister with his moustache, thick eyebrows and slicked black hair like a 1920s Hollywood heavy. (Think early Oliver Hardy before he became Stan Laurel's comic foil) Aubriot wedges out so Marcel pulls hair to regain the headlock. What a Mechant!  He gets Bayle (who tags in after a failed Aubriot folding press pin attempt ) in a headlock on the ropes and L'Arbitre pulls him off by the nose! Gessard tags in and stomps on Remy's leg and gets heat.  Bayle twice slingshots Gessard acrossthe ring Dan tags in and grabs Gessard by the ears (Mick McManus's least favourite place to be grabbed) and knocks him down. Manneuvaux helps by headlocking Dan from behind and the villains double team him.  Manneuvaux cuts off Dan's air as  L'Arbitre escorts Gessard out but this does not get the same heat it would in England even though Aubriot is thrashing away with his legs to get the ref's attention. Dan gets shoved out the ring and the ref backdrops Manneuvaux out to join him. They have quite the ringside brawl, the hardcam catches the ringside camera swinging round to keep focused on the action.  All four guys end up in the front row seats with spectators fleeing for their lives (luckily no braver souls make a bid for TV fame and pitch in.)  Les Bons make it back to the ring first while Couderc begins leading the audience in the most godawful drunken singalong.  The hardcam actually captures him dancing around in his own little world!   Les Mechants stumble back and a tag team brawl ensues.  Couderc is still singing and so are la Publique. Gessard works Remy over with an armbar (he does nothing to escape)  then tags Manneuvaux.  Bayle gets a fireman's carry then an overhead press slam (Couderc sadly starts the bloody singing again!) the tags Aubriot.  Manneuvaux gets a bodyscissors in the corner but Dan knocks his hands off he ropes and he lands in a heap and the fans laugh at him.  He gets a figure four top wristlock on the mat, Dan kips up to make it a standing top wristlock. Manneuvaux tries to get the advantage pulling hair again but the ref flings him off to the ropes.  Aubriot gets a Manchette and a side chancery throw into front chinlock (more drunken Couderc singing). He takes Marcel's face (the ref ignores this or puts it down to retaliation) and switches arms on the chinlock then gets a crosspress for 2. Manneuvaux gets headscissors but Aubriot kips out and tags Bayle. Manneuvaux gets a sleeper (and crafty eyerake) The heels double team Bayle as they tag and get their first Avertisement.  Aubriot gets the hot tag and we get so evof Couderc:s infamous pro Bon bias "Allez Aubriot! Vas y Aubriot" and more singing. Manneuvaux ends up tangled in the ropes as Bayle tags back in.  It gets fast with ground dropkicks and missed splashes from both sides. Gessard tags in  Aubriot throws him with headscissors.  and Bayle throws him with a rear snapmare. Gessard gets some throws of his own. Bayle gets a powerslam for 2.  They knock heads and Bayle gets up but the villain is counted out for 10 - KNOCKOUT!!!

Not a technical classic, a simple Bon Vs Mechant brawl with a happy ending.

 

 

[ohtani's jacket]

If it's from Tele-Dimanche, as Matt mentioned in his review, then it was shot at Maison de la Radio in one of its auditoriums. 

[ohtani's jacket]

More specifically, the old Studio 102.  

[David Mantell]

2 hours ago, ohtani's jacket said:

If it's from Tele-Dimanche, as Matt mentioned in his review, then it was shot at Maison de la Radio in one of its auditoriums. 

Still a bigger venue than Techwood Drive.  That back wall still looks like a movie screen. Maybe stuff was indeed projected into it. 

[David Mantell]

Bit of a build up the Villain piece here.  Mickey Trash was a common early C21st opponent of Flesh Gordon.  Two tall bodybuilding face painted cyberpunk Mechants.  Miserio is a luchador with a depressive condition, tragedy masks on his mask and an action man figure of himse of. Emil is a not very interesting Italian.  

Les Mechants beat down on Les Bons, Les Bons get a hope run, Ls Mechants get their heat back when Michel drags Emil out by the leg getting an Avertisement for his team.  Mickey does big power moves on the masked man in yellow.  He fights back with some bi modern soot moves on both heels until Trash gets him with a released blockbuster suplex. Soon Miserio is the one selling the big spots.  The heels get another Avertisement for double teaming but under IWSF rules at this time they could go up to 5 until  DQ.  

Miserio dodges a charge from Michel, headscissors him and tags Emil.  He does out dropkicks and armdrags. Mickey ends up ringside going nose to nose with a fan. The villains get their dominance back until Miserio goes on a jackknife spree. It's back and forth until Mierio misses a diving summersault splash. Michel pins him to win .

[Phil Lions]

15 hours ago, David Mantell said:

Thanks for pointing this one out, @David Mantell. I had somehow missed it in my latest sweep of the archive. Just looked it up.

January 2, 1966: Marcel Manneveau & Claude Gessat vs. Remy Bayle & Dan Aubriot

This is missing from Bob's video of the match, but the segment starts with Laurent Couderc (Roger Couderc's son) introducing his father. Roger takes over from there, introduces the wrestlers and does the commentary.

And indeed, as @ohtani's jacket said, this aired as part of "Télé dimanche". That particular episode of the show was a total of 4 hours and 40 minutes so they had some time to fill, to say the least!

And speaking of time, I now realize why I had missed this one. I hadn't noticed this before, but INA, apparently, splits some of the longer videos into parts, and only the first part shows up in the search so if you want to see the other parts you have to manually switch to them from a dropdown menu above the video, which means... there might be some other stuff that I've missed because of this. I doubt it will be much, but there might be something there. I'll need to take a closer look.

[David Mantell]

9 hours ago, Phil Lions said:

Thanks for pointing this one out, @David Mantell. I had somehow missed it in my latest sweep of the archive. Just looked it up.

January 2, 1966: Marcel Manneveau & Claude Gessat vs. Remy Bayle & Dan Aubriot

Alessio has that one on the Date Unknown playlist on his channel.

Was (is?) this Maison De La Radio place a TV studio?  If so it was a very large one.  It looks like I said like a cinema.  TV studios in the UK  in those days were not big Hollywood sound stages, they were poky little rooms much like the places they did all those Southern US studio wrestling shows, if anything even smaller.  If they set up a ring in the studio ATV used for Tiswas (Broad Street in Birmingham) it would look just like an episode of the Poffos' ICW circa 1980.  In Germany, with the show where Bock wrestled the bear, the only giveaway that it wasn't a Southern US studio wrestling show was the fancy stylish set design beyond the budget of genuine American studio wrestling.   This Maison place on the other hand has a giant theatre sized seating rostrum, a big blank wall suitable for projecting films and theatre/cinema curtains hanging open either side.  In short it looks to me like a cinema even if it officially wasn't one.

There was a rematch between the four a few months later. I've been considering doing a review but I'd been meaning to do that 2007 Mickey Trash bout for longer so that got priority.

 

[ohtani's jacket]

To the best of my knowledge, there was no cinema at Maison de la Radio. It was the headquarters for RTF for a decade before television and radio were split into two separate organizations in 1974 and then it became the headquarters of Radio France exclusively. 

I'm fairly certain it's a regular curtain. Not sure what was behind it. Perhaps orchestra seats since it was a concert hall. 

[David Mantell]

Would you believe it was the start of May that we last did some New Catch?

Zefy in his prime taking on a Japanese young boy learning to work heel. He's not quite the Tokyo Street Thug heel Hiro Yamamoto was on CWA shows a couple of years later. Takayaki uses stiff kicks and suchlike and his technical and flying skills are not up to Zefy's level but it's an enjoyable action piece enough.

We join in progress as Zefy has an armbar.  Takayaki backs him in the ropes until L'Arbitre Charley "Brother of Andre" Bollet warns him off, knees him a few times and gets a side chancery throw into headlock ("Etrangelment" the commentators over dramatically call it). Zefy breaks it into an armbar into cross buttock throw. Takayaki gets a leg and standing toehold, drops his weight on the knee to make a leglock. Zefy gets a chinlock on in response but releases as the Japanese tightend the pressure. He goes back to standing toehold and  Zefy turns him over with almost a toupie (he doesn't quite go up on his skull).  They finger Interlock and Takayaki gets three kicks and a slam.  He tries and fails to get the pin with the finger interlock. Zefy bridges up (Hideous and unnecessary zoom in on crotch) resists his man's break attempts and and does the Planchette Japonaise on Le Japonaise.to a great pop. They reset and come off the ropes. On the first pass Zefy absorbs an elbow, on thecsecond he drops down underneath, on the third he leapfrogs over and gets a bodyslam and press for 2.  We get a slo-mo of some action- yes it was almost a toupie but Zefy's elbows took some of the load. NOT THAT BLOODY CROTCH SHOT AGAIN! Sheesh. Back to the present, Takayaki gets a cross buttock into side heädlock on the mat. Zefy starts to stand up so Takayaki switches to front then side chancery throw and crosspress for 2.  Takayaki gets a wristlever, passes it overhead and lands weakener elbows on the upper arm.  Zefy gets his arm free and grabs a side headlock. He comes off the ropes but Takahashi resists a bulldog and scores a fine cross buttock throw on the rebound. The Japanese and Zefy's female valet have a disagreement - this will build to something. He whips Zefybwho switches arms and throws his man. Next a flying headscissors and dropkick. Valet looks happy.  More replay. Zefy gets a headlock, Takayaki blast a couple of blows and slams his head in the corner with the pad off. Bollet tells him off.  Takayaki gets some stomps on the fallen Prince   Two more kicks floor Zefy. Not sure if Takayaki gets un Avertisement at this point. He does get a suplex and 2 count. More slo-mo. The Japanese slams Zefy and gets a Scorpion death lock on (Sting has popularised the move in the West but not yet Bret Hart. Mostly I think he was channeling Masa Chono.  Crowd shot, a good full house with raucous kids. Les Gosses Francais Aiment le catch. bien Sur.  Zefy crawls to the ropes, Bollet demands the break. Takayaki complies but then drops a guillotine elbowsmash angering Bollet. Side suplex and folder gets only 2. Takayaki tries a Camel Clutch.How much American Wrestling does this guy watch?  He sneers and we see he mis missing a tooth, useful for a heel. Zefy too by the looks of it, he backs his man into the corner like Hogan at MSG January 1984. Takayaki switches to sleeper at the last second but it doesn't help. More slo-mo. In a corner, Takayaki gets a kick and Zefy some butts to the chest. Zefy gets a neat side Chancery throw and un Manchette. The valet is up on the apron doing a Paul Butin. Zefy fires a dropkick, two Manchettes and accepts one back.On the ropes,  Iisuki fends Zefy off with a kick. He comes off tecropes with a bodycheck, flooring the Prince.  He gets a second one and a fantastic spinning kick. A crosspress gets only 2.  He gets a slam and missile dropkick, shoving the valet out the way as he goes. A rear waistlock suplex and bridge gets 2. Crowd is chanting for Zefy.  He gets a powerslam for 2. Iisuki is on the wrong end of Two Manchettes and a head  smashed into that same exposed turnbuckle no one has fixed in minutes. Zefy gets a posting but is met with a kick to the head.  Iisuki gets a flying bodypress but Zefy rolls it over for 2. He backdrops his man out of the ring.  The scantily clad valet (the Princess?) and Iisuki gets into a shoving match at ringside.  He gets back on the ring apron and Zefy suplexes him in for 2.  A forward powerslam and Superfly splash gets Zefy the winner.

And CUT. We don't get to see the postmatch "afterbirth" if there was one. The file is labelled 3 so there may well be two earlier parts.  Iisuki had some good moves but much to learn in terms of heel psychology. Zefy was on good form and the star of the piece.

 

 

 

[David Mantell]

On 6/23/2025 at 7:14 PM, David Mantell said:

There was a rematch between the four a few months later. I've been considering doing a review but I'd been meaning to do that 2007 Mickey Trash bout for longer so that got priority.

The rematch is at a more conventional venue, the Cirque d'Hiver. Big Tough Martial is the ref.

Manneuvaux and Bayle start off, crisscrossing, Manneuvaux has a fine flying tackle, Baylecsome nifty snapmares. The second time MM tries his flyer he is caught and slammed and really sells it. Gessat tags in and the pace keeps up.until they lock down into a 2 way front chancery log roll. Gessat and Aubriot both have fine headscissors. The commentator tries to interview Manneuvaux on the apron but MM Ignores him.  Manneuvaux gradually breaks out the dirties. He and Gessat try to double team Bayle but Martial gets stuck in. The BNs continue their double teaming ways despite Martial's best efforts. Aubriot is thrown to ringside but Bayle rescues him. Bayle  undresses a Manneuvaux full nelson and gets a ground dropkick in.  He has Manneuvaux in trouble on the ropes and is warned off by Martial. Baylecsome the headscissor takedown in response to a top wristlock. Les Bloussons double cream Bayle again. Manneuvaux has a Gotch toehold but doesn't get the behind leg synched into the depth of the rear of the knee.After getting choked on the ropes, Bayle goes to work then tags Aubriot on the second attempt gets a Surfboard.  Manneuvaux gets the opening fall with a further leg nelson folding press (the small package to you Americans) on Aubriot for the opening fall.  The BNs work over Aubriot with foul and fair tactics.  At one point Manneuvaux gets an eyerake into chinlock and has his own scalp badly yanked by Martial. Manneuvaux argues bitterly about it. Aubriot puts up a strong if close to the edge of the rules  performance on both BNs.The commentator calls stamps on the mat "un Petit coup" Manneuvaux comes to Gessat's aid and gets a thorough pasting from Martial on the ropes. The heels heat continues - Gessat has a fine Planchette Japonaise for a Mechant. Aubriot gets two Scisseax Volees and a Tourniquet (giant swing) and cross press for the equaliser.  All four brawl their way into the interval until Martial gets calm. Les Mechants get back to work as the bell goes for la Belle. The end comes when Aubriot drapes Manneuvaux over the corner and tags Bayle who press slams drops and splashes Manneuvaux (like the Ultimate Warrior only a front not back drop.) for the deciding pin. Cut back to the studio and a female presenter gives a continuity announcement.

More of the same as the Maison De La Radio bout 3 months earlier. Fast more than skilfull, plenty of interesting nuggets but best not give a blow by blow account ss they would be harder to sift out.

[David Mantell]

On 4/11/2020 at 2:28 PM, ohtani's jacket said:

Jacky Corn vs. Remy Bayle (aired 4/14/61)

Jacky Corn is on my radar now. He went pretty hard in this match as well, especially in the second half when they started ratcheting up the physicality. It looked like he took a legit blow to the nose. This was a fine example of the catch formula we've been discussing. In this case, It was Bayle that ramped up the physicality, but we know Corn is a tough bugger. Sadly, we don't see the result as the footage cuts out before the end. Even so, Corn is one to watch. 

One odd thing about the picture. There is a light haze in the background except the outline of figures like the MC at the start which has an aura of black surrounding the.

Both men are a lot lighter than later on - food for thought when we consider Flesh Gordon the skinny kid in 1983-1985 to Flesh the chunkier guy on Eurosport.. Apparently this is some sort of title match.  It's hard to keep track of which is which so I'll just focus on standout moves.

Starts off with far flying throws. Corn has Bayle down in a side headlock, Bayle wedge s out. They flip in back and forth between crossed finger interlock holds. Bayle and Corne both bridge up from rear inverted s. Snapmares - DDP Diamond. Cutter basically.  They similarly go into hiptoss flipping  over and over countering each other's throw., and that's how it goes on.  They also roll backwards from arm lever as well as the more characteristically French headscissor takedown counter to armbars.Even down in Gotch toehold  they slide along like a clockwork toy, the man underneath turning the man on top over with one arm then the man in top reaching backward to reclaim the hold.  They tend to backrolls rather than flip when doing down from a top,wristlock.

A bit of a Manchette contest breaks out 2/3 through but ends as soon as it began, to be replaced by taking quick turns with rear snapmares. Things do slow down with an Indian Death lock which becomes a bodyscissors.  Quite a lot of possibilities with the bodyscissors are worked through. 

Plenty of speed in this bout but not many ideas.  Repetitive under analysis but energetic enough to watch in real time. As OJ mentioned, it cuts out mid move so we never see who won although I was having trouble keeping up with who was who. With the ending and with a better ability to keep track of which catcheur was which I could have done this bout more justice.

 

[David Mantell]

Quote

@Matt D: This is a historical match but ultimately a disappointment. At the start of the match Kamikaze unmasks. They claim this is because there are as many as 11 fake Kamikazes running around France wrestling and I believe it from some of the other things we've heard. We had seen Aledo in this get up one later time and it's striking. He was shaved bald and either had parts of his face taped back or makeup on to look unique to say the least. Mercier is a higher weight class and they note that both at the start and after the match when Mercier is interviewed and notes that this must be the real Kamikaze after all and he'd know after wrestling him. 

Either because of the weight difference or just to get over the gimmick (I think the latter), Aledo completely loses himself in the character. For such an agile, technically sound wrestler to do so is a skill of itself and worth noting and respecting but were we to get one more Aledo match, I would not want it to have been this one, historical or no. There really are no long holds, though there are a few clever takeovers. There are a lot of karate chops, a lot of cheap shots, some hair pulling, a lot of mugging. There is a taupie (I always miss the "i" I've been informed) escape by Mercier and even a very short giant swing. Mercier even does this really great press slam gutbuster, and at one point he does fire back with some big shots. Most of this, however is Kamikaze skulking around and chewing the scenery. Eventually, he hits too many throat shots and tosses the ref away and that's the match. A couple of good individual exchanges and you have to respect how intensely they wanted to establish the bankable character and push back against the fakes, but knowing what Aledo is capable of, ultimately disappointing.  

SR: There's a bit of irony in how Modesto Aledo is this legendary grappler, but most of what we have of him is him doing the Kamikaze act. It's grade A pro wrestling bullshit, but I can enjoy some bullshit pro wrestling. There's a lot of cool things about Kamikaze. The way he moves, the creepy demeanour and appearance, the throat chops and nasty chokes. That thing he does where he gets flung over the top rope and somehow holds on and slides back in through the middle rope is amazing. And Guy Mercier is a real wrestlers wrestler type who I think probably can't have a bad match. It makes for some fun unique wrestling to watch, although you do end up wishing they had archived Guy Mercier vs Modesto Aledo proper at some point. 

We've seen this unmasked Kamikaze already once against Nicholas Priory.  I'll take your word for it that this is Modesto Aledo - what is the evidence other than that Aledo played the original Kamikaze a decade earlier? If it's the real Modesto, and he has simply grown Old, Fat, Bald and Tubby then a lot of people owe a sincere apology to Flesh Gordon!

Kamikaze gets down to work with a headlock/strangle similar to the Million Dollar Dream.  He spends a lot of time lurching around in a crouching position.  He uses pressure points, Mercier uses a ground top wristlock and other slow holds like and Indian Deathlock.  can, Kamikaze does turn and bump. Nearly 12 minutes in we look like we're getting something, a toupie to roll up Kami's arm hank, but he keeps keeping over an eventually opts for other tactics. 

Kamikaze drops two chops on Guy from a height and gets a Second and Final Avertisement. I don't recall him getting the first one. Guy spends a lot of time selling on the mat. He gets three dropkicks in a row. Kamikaze gets a bodycheck and resumes chopping.  He is twice in danger of DQ, once from too many chops then from hitting referee Charley Bollet before finally getting sent to the dressing room for leaving Mercier unconscious. Afterwards in a promo Guy says he is a very tough opponent and reminds him of someone he faced in Germany.

Slow. (Whreas last night's bout was too fast for the wrestlers to do anything but repeat moves over and over.) None of even the Kamikaze gimmick's trademark tricks like the catapult back in. 

 

[David Mantell]

We have seen one bout that was unambiguously Modesto Aledo:

Quote

Modesto Aledo vs. Teddy Boy (aired 10/13/60)

 

Modesto Aledo is another Spanish guy with a huge rep, and man was he good. I honestly thought I'd uncovered one of the all-time greats while he in control of the bout. Then Teddy Boy took over and it became a showcase for him. To Aledo's credit, Teddy Boy repeatedly suplexed him over the top rope and onto the floor, which was ballsy stuff. Aledo had a fiery comeback, and I thought we were back on the Aledo train, but Teddy Boy got the "w." Apparently, Aledo jobbed a lot in Britain as well. I swear he looked incredible, though. 

Quote

On 5/10/2025 at 10:17 AM, David Mantell said:

 

Janos Vs Roland is very much down on the match when we join with Roland maintaining a Frank Gotch toehold against reversal/ counter attempts by Janos.  Janos eventually springs free and administers his own headscissors but Roland easily snaps out. . They go for finger interlock and Janos fires a dropkick and Roland retorts with a Manchette .  Roland gets a fantastic Scisseaux Volees into kneeling press but somehow can't get even a 1 count for it and Janos takes him down with a bodyscissors.  Dumal gets a legspread held in place with a bridge. Vadkerti  unhooks his spread legs but then can't break the bridge so they rest.  Another interlock and Dumal gets the armbar and twists it into a figure four top wristlock. Vadkerti goes down with it and slaps on a headscissor. Dumal twists out an d they go into Planchette Japonaise interchange sequence. Vadkerti gets a bodyscissors and there is a lot of interchange over it. Dumal gets a headscissors on Vadkerti....It goes on like that. Holds worked over for long periods of time, the odd flurry of Manchettes. Vadkerti wibs with a folding press.

Aledo is still a Bon and not yet a Kamikaze. Teddy Boy is nothing of the sort. He is a Rocker/Greaser. He does not have an Edwardian Drapes suit or a DA quiff. What he is is quite the thought young brawler. Aledo is the more scientific but Teddy Boy is not the ideal opponent against whom to demonstrate this.  Aledo does do a few of his future Kamikaze rope tricks. For most of the match Aledo takes control until near the end when Teddy Boy uses some lutte Irreguliere to pitch Aledo twice out of the ring.  Aledo gets Irreguliere right back in Teddy's face along with the odd clean tick (the scoot forwards through the legs into ground dropkick). But in the end, Teddy gives Aledo a Warrior style press slam drop and splash to get the upset win.