Motor City Machine Guns

[Nighthawk]

Watching how Chris Sabin is seemingly floundering with an awful heel character, and how injury-prone Alex Shelley has been in New Japan, got me to thinking about the best thing they both have ever done: The Motor City Machine Guns.

 

Myabe it's that they had a charisma about them together that they both have never been able to capture individually, or perhaps it's something as simple as that when they were teaming, you could be fooled into having something approaching hope for TNA's future with them and Beer Money leading the way. Whatever it was, because TNA is TNA, they killed it. The split angle for the Guns led to the dissolution of the team, the release of Alex Shelley, and the turning of Chris Sabin into whatever they turned him into.

 

But they could have bene special, really. And because this is often the case with TNA, their best work (with a notable exception here or there) happened outside TNA. Their best matches took place in ROH, PWG, and other places where their styles were indulged instead of neutered because a former WWF guy needed the shine.

 

Question for the class, then: Did you like the MCMG's when they were teaming? Do you wish they would team again? And what are your favorite matches of theirs, if you happen to have any?

[Jimmy Redman]

Yes I liked them as a team. They were one of TNA's better teams. I assume their video game style wouldn't endear them to many people on this board, but I like that stuff in moderation, and the Guns were very good at it.

 

Their six minute showcase match with Doi & Yoshino on Impact from 2008 was awesome and one of my favourite ever TNA matches. That and the Beer Money 2/3 Falls blowoff are my favourite matches of theirs.

 

I don't particularly want them to reform, bur I'm someone who has zero interest in TNA or their respective careers. I'm not against the idea, I just don't care at this point.

[Nighthawk]

Yes I liked them as a team. They were one of TNA's better teams. I assume their video game style wouldn't endear them to many people on this board, but I like that stuff in moderation, and the Guns were very good at it.

 

Their six minute showcase match with Doi & Yoshino on Impact from 2008 was awesome and one of my favourite ever TNA matches. That and the Beer Money 2/3 Falls blowoff are my favourite matches of theirs.

 

I don't particularly want them to reform, bur I'm someone who has zero interest in TNA or their respective careers. I'm not against the idea, I just don't care at this point.

I really have to find that match. Everyone pimps it and I've never seen it.

[Jimmy Redman]

Yes I liked them as a team. They were one of TNA's better teams. I assume their video game style wouldn't endear them to many people on this board, but I like that stuff in moderation, and the Guns were very good at it.

 

Their six minute showcase match with Doi & Yoshino on Impact from 2008 was awesome and one of my favourite ever TNA matches. That and the Beer Money 2/3 Falls blowoff are my favourite matches of theirs.

 

I don't particularly want them to reform, bur I'm someone who has zero interest in TNA or their respective careers. I'm not against the idea, I just don't care at this point.

I really have to find that match. Everyone pimps it and I've never seen it.

 

The Speed Muscle match?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2lve397lqE

[Nighthawk]

Yes I liked them as a team. They were one of TNA's better teams. I assume their video game style wouldn't endear them to many people on this board, but I like that stuff in moderation, and the Guns were very good at it.

 

Their six minute showcase match with Doi & Yoshino on Impact from 2008 was awesome and one of my favourite ever TNA matches. That and the Beer Money 2/3 Falls blowoff are my favourite matches of theirs.

 

I don't particularly want them to reform, bur I'm someone who has zero interest in TNA or their respective careers. I'm not against the idea, I just don't care at this point.

I really have to find that match. Everyone pimps it and I've never seen it.

 

The Speed Muscle match?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2lve397lqE

 

The 2-out-of-3 falls match.

[wwxwce]

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xkon1n_tn...eam-match_sport

[Alan4L]

I was about as big a Machine Guns fan as there was back when they came onto the scene. I thought there best stuff was in PWG and New Japan, with my faves being the series with Apollo 55, and their matches with the Bucks, Generico/Quicksilver and what I still think may be their best match - against Jimmy & Tyler from that All Star Weekend that took place in late 2006.

[Mando]

There's an MCMG gem that I've tried to pimp for a few years that everybody slept on (can't necessarily blame them since it aired on the short-lived and slipshod ReACTION show). Here's my original write-up:

 

Generation ME vs. Motor City Machineguns - Empty Arena Match - TNA ReACTION 11/18

 

This was pretty insane. The fast-paced, high flying style of these guys is often most criticized for its lack of stiffness. But here, with no crowd, etc. you could really hear the shots landing, air getting knocked out, and so on, and both teams kept ratcheting up the intensity and its easily the most physical match I can remember either team in. At first, seeing how it was shot, the usual ReACTION method of random close-ups, racking the focus, etc. made me unsure, but as it progressed and got more and more violent and hate-filled it totally won me over and really wowed me.

[Jimmy Redman]

Holy shit, I just came into this thread to post the exact same thing.

 

I love that match. I think it was really awesome at using the high-flying movez style in a really vicious and hate-filled way. Like, they're using their double-team moves and springboard moonsaults and shit, but everything comes off as super violent and nasty and it feels like a war. When they get to the end and "WE'RE GOING TO FUCKING KILL YOU!" it really feels quite unsettling and dangerous.

[Nighthawk]

Holy shit, I just came into this thread to post the exact same thing.

 

I love that match. I think it was really awesome at using the high-flying movez style in a really vicious and hate-filled way. Like, they're using their double-team moves and springboard moonsaults and shit, but everything comes off as super violent and nasty and it feels like a war. When they get to the end and "WE'RE GOING TO FUCKING KILL YOU!" it really feels quite unsettling and dangerous.

I am going to look for this match based on everyone's excitement.

[Nighthawk]

Just saw the match, and holy crap. That was really intense and almost uncomfortable to watch.

[rvd356]

I can't believe they put the belt on Sabin still to this day. It was so random(well I barely get to see Impact but stiill). While the Aries '12 push was so organic and awesome, this was a baddd copycat. And to me it was territory killing level of a bad decision. I tuned out for good when I saw him win it.

 

It would be like WWE putting the strap on Miz and having him main event Wrestlem...wait a minute. Atleast WWE keeps on chugging even if their World Title is worthless.

[Jimmy Redman]

It was a really bad and transparent copy, yeah. I think it was their attempt to establish their annual 'Money in the Bank' style concept, but completely forgetting that the MITB concept itself (the surprise cash-in) is a device that allows for anyone who wins it to practically guarantee a title switch, thus it makes sense that everyone succeeds at it every year. Just being the X Division champion and receiving a title shot on the July PPV doesn't give anyone an inherent advantage, so it doesn't make sense to try and make it some 'guaranteed title change' thing.

 

Sabin winning just kind of served to cheapen Aries' win, like you say, because the Aries win went from something organic and extraordinary, to a little bit more "that's just what happens when the X-D Champ cashes in".

 

I wouldn't be against the idea of a Sabin underdog title victory in theory, but doing it in such a derivative way, and with zero momentum, was a killer.

[Nighthawk]

It was a really bad and transparent copy, yeah. I think it was their attempt to establish their annual 'Money in the Bank' style concept, but completely forgetting that the MITB concept itself (the surprise cash-in) is a device that allows for anyone who wins it to practically guarantee a title switch, thus it makes sense that everyone succeeds at it every year. Just being the X Division champion and receiving a title shot on the July PPV doesn't give anyone an inherent advantage, so it doesn't make sense to try and make it some 'guaranteed title change' thing.

 

Sabin winning just kind of served to cheapen Aries' win, like you say, because the Aries win went from something organic and extraordinary, to a little bit more "that's just what happens when the X-D Champ cashes in".

 

I wouldn't be against the idea of a Sabin underdog title victory in theory, but doing it in such a derivative way, and with zero momentum, was a killer.

At least with Aries, it was a thing they were talking about and kind of setting up. Sabin, they just.... did it.

[Alucard]

Agreed with the last few posts. The Aries push was a slow rise build that started with him ruling the X Division, the crowd turning him face and then big PPV wins over Bully Ray and Joe.. especially the Bully win being a clean tapout. Then the feud with Roode was REALLY good with Aries owning the mic and the segments with Hogan really strongly putting over Aries. Then the actual Aries/Roode match was my favorite of the year and favorite moment of the year for sure. They made the match feel like it had a ton on the line and Aries win was a genuine feel good moment with a proper crowd jumping up and down reaction to it. The rematch was just about equally as good too.

 

The Sabin thing was completely terrible. He had been pretty much as bland as could be ever since returning, despite Hulk trying to put him over on the mic a time or two. Wins the X Title immediately then he loses the title only to get it right back to cash in. He wins the title and just looks so out of place in the ring with guys like Angle and Sting, where as Aries fit right in with Hulk Hogan and looked like a star. Sabin came off like a kid with the title and now has turned into this awful whiny heel character. They should've stuck with the shockingly excellent Suicide angle they did with Aries and had him cash in again.

[Steven]

Never cared about the Guns and usually avoided them. Actively disliked them in TNA too. That empty arena match was hilarious. Watching it live. it came across as so forced. Watching it again today...it's even worse. The shitty camera work, Tenay and Taz doing some kind of bizarre mumble commentary like they're trying not to be heard, the silly highspots in a "hate filled" brawl (doing a slingshot X-Factor over a guard railing and a wacky looking Sliced Bread 2 on the rail for example), laughable trash talk and the bizarre ending of making the arrogant heels look like brave heroes in defeat.

[Nighthawk]

But isn't that more of a booking thing (at least that last part), than it is anything you can necessarily fault Sabin\Shelley for?

[vannaboy]

Never cared about the Guns and usually avoided them. Actively disliked them in TNA too. That empty arena match was hilarious. Watching it live. it came across as so forced. Watching it again today...it's even worse. The shitty camera work, Tenay and Taz doing some kind of bizarre mumble commentary like they're trying not to be heard, the silly highspots in a "hate filled" brawl (doing a slingshot X-Factor over a guard railing and a wacky looking Sliced Bread 2 on the rail for example), laughable trash talk and the bizarre ending of making the arrogant heels look like brave heroes in defeat.

That match isn't bad for what it was. You have to remember that's the style they work. Taz is just horrid. He has never figured out how to uses his words so he goes into his serious voice. For me that brings down the match.

[Nighthawk]

Never cared about the Guns and usually avoided them. Actively disliked them in TNA too. That empty arena match was hilarious. Watching it live. it came across as so forced. Watching it again today...it's even worse. The shitty camera work, Tenay and Taz doing some kind of bizarre mumble commentary like they're trying not to be heard, the silly highspots in a "hate filled" brawl (doing a slingshot X-Factor over a guard railing and a wacky looking Sliced Bread 2 on the rail for example), laughable trash talk and the bizarre ending of making the arrogant heels look like brave heroes in defeat.

That match isn't bad for what it was. You have to remember that's the style they work. Taz is just horrid. He has never figured out how to uses his words so he goes into his serious voice. For me that brings down the match.

 

That is exactly one of those matches where commentary is not needed.

[Alucard]

That empty arena match was hilarious. Watching it live. it came across as so forced. Watching it again today...it's even worse. The shitty camera work, Tenay and Taz doing some kind of bizarre mumble commentary like they're trying not to be heard, the silly highspots in a "hate filled" brawl (doing a slingshot X-Factor over a guard railing and a wacky looking Sliced Bread 2 on the rail for example), laughable trash talk and the bizarre ending of making the arrogant heels look like brave heroes in defeat.

Agreed. Never got any of the praise I've seen it get, thought it came off very silly from what I remember.

[Nighthawk]

bumping this to point out how much different the Time Splitters team with Kushida is than the Motor City Machine Guns. I think it's because New Japan allows them the kind of freedom TNA never did, or that Kushida is just miles better than Sabin (which might be true.) Also, the fact that Kushida\Shelley already have that same kind of chemistry is a real tribute to Alex Shelley i think.