Amazing Red

[Dylan Waco]

Discuss Here.

[Timbo Slice]

I wasn't on big as others were on Red when he was at his zenith, but at the same time, he's got the claim of being one of the more influential wrestlers of his era. His work varied all over the spectrum, but he was at least fun to watch and at his best, he had some of the most jaw-dropping spots I'd ever seen at the time. I don't think he'll make my 100, but at the same time, I feel like he's undervalued to an extent and was happy to hear Wes, Naylor and Kris talk him up big during the latest Exile on Badstreet podcast.

[Dylan Waco]

Now I am sure that on paper this will seem like an odd one, but after listening to the Naylor/Wes/KrisZ Exile on Badstreet episode on the indie boom period, I decided to rewatch some of his stuff. He was a guy I loved at the time, in fact in some ways he jumped out at me more than any of the other early indie performers as he felt completely different, unique and revolutionary. I remember my brothers (and myself) going completely nuts watching him and Ki do their Kung Fu routine and thinking he was going to be the next big thing in wrestling. Anyway I watched back a bunch of his TNA matches from 02/03 and it is actually kind of incredible how well it holds up. All the big spots, the timing, the crazy impact of his bumps, the way he can switch speeds, the fact that he always seemed to have one more even bigger spot in his back pocket at all times, all of it holds up. On top of that the matches all ranged from good-to-great. I saw him work Low Ki, Kid Kash, AJ Styles, Jerry Lynn and Jimmy Yang and he managed to do different, fresh and interesting things in all of the matches. I was especially amazed at how well the matches were paced, as Red came across as spotty but not spotfesty if that makes sense.

 

Anyhow after watching those matches back I started to think about Red as a superior version of Tiger Mask, and a poor man's version of Rey Mysterio. A superior TM in that he was a dynamic and influential high flyer - except Red was actually a very good wrestler. Like Rey in that he was a guy who got a leg injury, got older and then reinvented himself as a guy who would build his matches around selling and building to a few big, well timed, spots.

 

I'm not saying Red is a lock or even close to that. But he's an interesting guy to watch back and think about.

[Bierschwale]

For influence: Just look at RAW last night, where maybe the second most-over face of the night was a tiny guy in a mask trying to work like Red, spot-for-spot.

[TonyPulis'Cap]

Have been watching a lot of early 2000s indies, and while I have always liked Red - both at the time and now - I think I've been underrating just how good he was/is. From the period say 2002 - 04, he is an elite level high flyer, managing to do spotfests with meaning, timing his comebacks and big moves to create a compelling storyline, rather than them just being thrown out one after another. His selling is great too - yes, he is small, and so in many matches, his opponent can throw him around, but he is able to elicit real fan reaction, again from the way he takes the moves and his timing. 

I also love the sequences of offensive moves he puts together - if you watch his nearfalls, they are often after hitting two or three moves in a combination, which makes it believable to be taking on beating guys that are bigger than him. The way they are timed as well, just brings the crowd to a crescendo like the beats of a great song.

Unlike a lot of high fliers he wasn't a one trick pony - I'd seriously underrated his strikes and kicks, they are just spot on, and again give him weapons that bring believability to him going toe to toe with guys.

I've watched him across ROH, TNA, MLW, CZW, JAPW and across a variety of opponents he always delivers, and for a guy hitting big moves and intricate sequences, he rarely botches or screws up - he is super smooth.

There's an undeniable Rey Mysterio vibe to him - especially young Rey - and while he's not at that level (few are!) or has that level of longevity, as the posts above from the 2016 discussion highlight he was a real pioneer in that early 2000s post WCW/ECW indie boom. I need to dig into his later years more, when the knee injuries took their tool to see how he adapted, but from seeing matches like the Ospreay one in New Japan and being their live when he faced PAC in Rev Pro, but genuinely considering him around the 90-100 spots as I start to put some initial thinking together.  

[El McKell]

I think he's a pretty prototypical early 00s indie wrestler. Does cool spots, is often sloppy, wears bad ring gear. His flippy shit is better than most of his contemporaries and he's obviously very influencial but he doesn't know how to use the fact that he's tiny to illict sympathy properly. He won't make my list.

[Reel]

Been working my way through one of the old Wes Hatch comps lately. Came here to try and get a read on Red, because he is for sure the stand out guy for me when watching that era. In a lot of ways, he seems like Sabu for the next generation. Not everything looks good, but everything has this extra level of drama added to it because it is so complex/complicated/innovative/convoluted. 

I don't know if he'd make a top 100, and I can't see him anywhere near the top half, but he does have the feeling of a bottom 10 guy based almost entirely on how much of a sea change his offense was circa 2001. 

[CheapPop1999]

I'd love someone to produce a little Red crash course. Always liked him but what are the ten or so matches that really state his case the best?