The japanese junior style's influence on lucha libre

[pol]

This is something I've seen alluded to a bit lately.

 

- When did it happen? Why?

- What workers were responsible for it?

- What elements were taken from the Japanese junior style? What matches highlight the style?

 

A 'before and after' type comparison with examples of matches for each would be illuminating, I think. I believe OJ said before that Lizmark was the last classic style tecnico before the juniors influence started creeping in, but I'm not really sure what it is that he does (or doesn't do) that distinguishes him from the more juniors-influenced workers.

[GOTNW]

I mean Lizmark was doing Northern Lights Suplexes so.....

[Tim Cooke]

Rey Jr., Juventud, and others incorporated Japanese spots into their matches in the mid 90's. But it was really the Shocker/Ultimo Guerrero era where you saw some very stiff work and a lot of Japanese influence. But that occurs with any style, outside of maybe worked shoots.

[pol]

Found this OJ post: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/26027-homogenization-of-wrestling-styles/&do=findComment&comment=5595132

 

Lucha evolved over time. As tim mentioned, it became very junior-esque in the late 80s as workers like Dandy, Atlantis, Emilio Charles, Pirata Morgan and Satanico began upping their workrate, particularly in the third caida of both hair matches and title matches. AAA pushed workrate even further, and there were already Japanese influences by the mid-90s brought back from the workers who went over there. Look at the elements that Santo brings to his CMLL bouts after his return in '95. Where it seemed to escalate was with the generational change at the end of the 90s, where the Emilio Charles Jrs of the world were too banged up to carry the load anymore and you got young workers like Shocker, Mr. Niebla, Rey Bucanero and Ultimo Guerrero, who were fundamentally solid to different degrees, but didn't carry on the torch of traditional lucha libre wrestling. As I've mentioned a million times on my blog, the lineage of classic lucha was Lizmark to Atlantis to Angel Azteca, but that lineage died with Azteca. And workers like Casas and Panther know what their meal ticket is and adapted to the new style. The shortened falls and formatting changes for TV also took their toll, and just the whole look of the reconfigured Arena Mexico has the crowd further away from the ring and everything is too bright (or was until the stopped lighting up the crowd.) The ring girls, the ramps and the big screen TVs are other changes that make it look homogenized.

Having said all that, CMLL is going through a down period at the moment, which has greatly increased the quality of the matches. You get longer, more traditional style bouts a couple of times a year.

 

My bad, it was Azteca, not Lizmark.

 

Hopefully OJ sees this and can expound upon what consistutes "traditional lucha libre wrestling" vs. the new style.

[pantherwagner]

Mexico was always behind the times technology wise but after the early 00s there was a lot more Japanese influence, not just spots here and there but in singles match pacing, stiffness and usage of high impact neck/bomb/suplex moves. This was a combination of Wagner Jr. becoming somewhat of a big star as a Japan junior and younger wrestlers having access to cheap Japanese DVD's.

 

Funny enough, when DVD players became cheap enough that everybody could have one (something that didn't happen with VCR's) the first big tape trading hit in Mexico were old tapes of ECW, and to an extent, current tapes of CZW. This also coincided with a number of indy scum wrestlers trying to be Zandig rather than Atlantis.

[Matt Farmer]

ROH also became a big influence on young luchadores.

 

If you look at the history between Mexico and Japan, you'll see a ton of influence crossing over promotions. Satoru Sayama was a major star in Mexico under his own name and an even bigger star when he returned as Tiger Mask. Before that Tatsumi Fujinami was a major star, and a huge drawing card in Mexico, same can be said about Antonio Inoki. And of course the magazine always covered wrestling in Japan.

[ohtani's jacket]

This is something I've seen alluded to a bit lately.

 

- When did it happen? Why?

- What workers were responsible for it?

- What elements were taken from the Japanese junior style? What matches highlight the style?

 

A 'before and after' type comparison with examples of matches for each would be illuminating, I think. I believe OJ said before that Lizmark was the last classic style tecnico before the juniors influence started creeping in, but I'm not really sure what it is that he does (or doesn't do) that distinguishes him from the more juniors-influenced workers.

 

It happened over time as more and more luchadores got regular bookings in Japan. It was around 1996/7 that it started having a noticeable impact on the bouts. Prior to that you had Dandy who was a tape watcher and cribbed stuff, but it was really Rey, Juventud, Santo, Casas and Wagner whom ratcheted things up. I would suggest watching the Rey/Juve 3/96 Barnett handheld, the Felino/Santo match from the summer of '97, the Casas/Santo hair vs. mask match from '97, and pre-Japan Wagner matches compared to his '97 work onward.

 

The biggest influence was on moveset, but there were also stylistic elements like suddenly introducing crucifix arm bars and what not. In Lizmark's case, I think he ratcheted up his moveset in AAA to stay relevant as a guy in his 40s in a promotion that was breaking away from tradition. He may have introduced those moves earlier, I don't remember clearly. The classic style is more about arm drags and spinning backbreakers being big time high spots, a cross body block style move off the top being a finisher, and a single dive being built to in the third caida. The matwork is less "Japanese" looking and more Euro style; heavily stylized and full of tricked out submissions.

[conker8]

Did Gran Hamada has influence with the style change ?

[ohtani's jacket]

Hamada's big runs in Mexico were during the 70s and 80s. We don't have the footage to know the extent to which he, or Sayama for that matter, influenced the style. UWA finally got TV in November of '91 and Hamada was still working matches in Mexico at that time, but there's nothing that I've seen that suggests Hamada was changing the style in any way. If anything it was more the case that Hamada adapted to Mexican wrestling than bringing new elements to it. I could be wrong, though.