heel turns

[flyonthewall2983]

Good chance this phrase has been thrown around in mainstream media more in one weeks time than maybe ever. The reaction from the outer circle of even the most fairweather of fans have expressed opinions on it. 

But I am less interested in that then what something like this means now. Around a decade ago REM broke up. It felt so weird for a big band to announce it as they did that it felt like in no such time nobody else went about it, like perhaps what happened when more and more people in America divorced their spouses.

When such connection is lost, and new expectations form of what was lost in one respect engages in something new and still relatable. I wasn’t a bonafide Hulkamaniac but the turn in 96 sure stunned me to think immediately that this guy is kind of throwing away his image for an angle. 

Before I waffle around too much on the topic, I’ll just ask. Of all the great legendary or otherwise underseen heel turns, which one were you wrapped up in the most?

I think when Crush turned in 93, was devastating. Easy to look back and point where his push went awry, specifically the Doink angle (making the kids cry, brah). But the way, after Yoko laid him out and putting him out of action for months, and how Vince, Randy and especially Bobby Heenan were selling it in the booth all those weeks leading up to the betrayal was fantastic storytelling.

[EnviousStupid]

  On 3/9/2025 at 9:46 PM, flyonthewall2983 said:

Before I waffle around too much on the topic, I’ll just ask. Of all the great legendary or otherwise underseen heel turns, which one were you wrapped up in the most?

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Batista telling Rey Mysterio he was gonna rip his head off after a 4-way world title match in late 2009.

I started watching in 2007. The first match I can remember seeing on TV was a cage match between Batista and Undertaker (the one where Edge cashed in afterwards). Cena was the top face at the time, but I had always been more a fan of Batista. That moment of him attacking Rey gutted me as a young fan.

[The Thread Killer]

I gave this question some thought after reading @flyonthewall2983's original post, and I came to an interesting realization about myself as a Pro Wrestling fan.  Apparently, face turns seem to leave a more lasting impression on me than heel turns do.  Right off the top of my head, I could think of a bunch of memorable face turns, but I really had to probe my own memory banks for memorable heel turns, and I have over 40 years of Pro Wrestling fandom to mine for content.

(For example, even though I thought he was pretty much useless, one of my all time favorite face turns of all time was when Jimmy Garvin turned face after The Midnight Express burned Ronnie Garvin.  That was freaking awesome, and pretty much out of nowhere.)

I think part of the problem is that a lot of times, heel turns get telegraphed so badly for the weeks leading up to the actual turn. Where there is no surprise, there is no drama.  Also, one of the many reasons I would love to choke Vince Russo is that he overdid turns so much as a booker, that they became essentially meaningless.  When people are switching from heel to face and back willy-nilly, it doesn't have as much impact.  One of the main reasons Hogan's turn was so huge was because he had been a babyface for so long, and not only that, he had been "the" babyface.

I was a WWF fan who watched their weekly TV religiously every Saturday morning, so when Mr. Wonderful turned on Hulk Hogan, it certainly left a huge impression on me. Even at the time, I saw it coming from a million miles away...the whole deal with Hogan ignoring Orndorff's phone call, and then Orndorff ignoring him after the match with The Moondogs...we all knew it was coming, but it was still shocking somehow when it happened.

One heel turn which I remember being absolutely flummoxed by, was when The Powers of Pain turned heel and Mr. Fuji turned heel on Demolition.  I distinctly remember saying to my friends at the time: "So let me get this straight...Mr. Fuji manages Demoltion, who are the Tag Team Champions, and he turns on them to manage The Powers of Pain...who aren't the champions?" (And they never would be.) I could have almost seen it, if Mr. Fuji had turned on Demoltion and cost them the titles, and THEN he joined up with The Powers of Pain...but he didn't, he just switched sides for no readily apparent reason, so he could manage the team that weren't the champions.  I guess from a booking standpoint, Vince did it because the fans were cheering for Demolition, and they didn't need Fuji as a mouthpiece, because they could cut promos, whereas The Powers of Pain couldn't...but it still made zero sense to me at the time. Dumbest heel turn ever.

[Ricky Jackson]

I guess you could rationalize Fuji's betrayal as him being the slimy heel that he was, who would coldly dump a team as soon as a shiny new toy was available. But yeah, I felt the same way at the time-why abandon a championship team for a non-championship team? 

Rick Martel turning on Tito was kinda heartbreaking for me, as I was pretty excited one of my favorite teams was getting back together, then they split during their return match 

[G. Badger]

I was pretty devastated as a little kid when Randy broke up the Mega Powers. Like, I always saw the Macho Man as a face (regardless) and to have he and Hulk being on the same side made perfect sense to me. And then to have his jealousy/pettiness split them up and pit them against one another really made me question Macho Man as a person but still thought Hogan wasn't innocent That's always stuck with me.

Bret's heel turn was pretty rough.... it was pretty interesting for a young person to actually think about some of that stuff...a pretty complex or nuanced angle to be honest. I wasn't angry with him though. I was  angry with them doing that to his character etc. So I still rooted for him because I knew that wasn't the "real" Bret. They carried this over to WCW in a way and I had to let go being a Bret Hart fan because I knew he was being wasted. I just wanted him to be the Bret of old. But that's another topic...

[sek69]

What makes a great heel turn is having people get invested in characters so when they turn it causes an instant emotional reaction. That's where the Vince Russo types fall short, when they rapid fire turns no one gives a shit because you never gave them a reason to. I think that's why the Cena turn specifically hit so many people, say what you will about all the Super Cena stuff everyone had feelings about him one way or another. Add in the fact that no one on the planet thought he would ever turn heel on his farewell tour, and you have all the ingredients of a all time angle.