Loss

That may be so, but it is on a much smaller scale. As we know the internet is a small, but vocal percentage of the WWE's audience. Just because the net is buzzing about an angle doesn't mean it will be successful and make all kinds of money. I think a lot of people, you included, are getting too excited about an angle that only appeals to a small portion of the audience. We all loved the Pillman angle, but did the average fan care at the time? Matt Hardy has never been a draw, Edge doesn't sell out arenas and most viewers don't turn on RAW to see Lita. The success of this angle will be measured in the coming weeks. If they consistently pop a rating then the excitment will be justified. Until then the comments about this angle drawing a billion dollars and being the best thing the WWE has done in a decade need to be scaled down. I'd agree with you if word hadn't spread of this to a point where they were forced to turn Lita heel a few months ago and crowds weren't chanting "You screwed Matt" every week. As it stands, word has spread, and WWE should capitalize on it.

Midnight Express I just can't see voting against them ... period.

Rock & Roll Express LOD were the bigger draw for a shorter period, but Morton and Gibson still draw on the indies today. Also far, far, far, far (far) better in the ring and every bit as influential, if not more so.

While wearing a Journey t-shirt with a blazer no less. He's a million times better as a heel.

Well according to Meltzer and Alvarez on WOL, HHH is the one who wanted to take the time off because he himself thinks he's overexposed.

There's no way Hardy would have agreed to that, and with the fan reaction what it's been, Matt actually had quite a bit of bargaining power. They've had Edge in a major holding pattern the past few weeks trying to figure out if Hardy was interested or not. And working indies, with his asking price so high right now and him being in high demand, he could conceivably make more money not sticking with WWE for the long term. There was a buzz surrounding the Matt/Edge/Lita segment last night that hasn't really been there seen since Hall and Nash showed up on Nitro. There's nowhere to go for Matt after this goes its course though, so I'm wondering if he's just under contract long enough to do this entire program before he jets back to the indies. He seems to be reinventing himself as Brian Pillman for 2005, and considering that he's scheduled to do the TNA PPV this Sunday and work an ROH date this Saturday night, it looks like his chances of making that role work are good.

Vote for the team that you feel had the best run as a tag team from 1985 to 2005. Voting will last approximately 24 hours and the winner of each match will advance to the second round. Because the goal of the tournament is to promote discussion, please feel free to explain how you came to your decision as much as possible.

Vote for the team that you feel had the best run as a tag team from 1985 to 2005. Voting will last approximately 24 hours and the winner of each match will advance to the second round. Because the goal of the tournament is to promote discussion, please feel free to explain how you came to your decision as much as possible.

I liked the Blondes quite a bit. No, they weren't at the level of the Midnight Express or the Fantastics, but with more time, they could have been their successors as the best working heel team in WCW. Goodhelmet mentioned many matches that underwhelmed him, but the problem with the Blondes is that they peaked with their feud against Steamboat and Douglas, and the pay-per-view matches against Steamboat and Douglas were the _worst matches_ from their feud, which saw them have countless TV matches that were much better. I remember quite well the first time I saw Ric Flair and thought he looked old. It was his match teaming with Arn against the Blonds at the 06/93 Clash. Now granted, that match doesn't do nearly as much for me as it once did, but I do think it says a lot for Austin and Pillman that they were outworking Ric Flair and Arn Anderson in 1993, two guys who were considered the best heavyweights WCW had by most people who underrated Vader. And I think it showed that the potential was there for the Blondes to become an all-time great tag team. Austin had his best matches in the WWF, no doubt, but I think it's in WCW where he learned how to work. The majority of his tenure there saw him surrounded by outstanding workers almost all the time and he couldn't help but learn from those around him. I don't think the Blondes are overrated -- I haven't seen anyone call them the best tag team of all time, or even of the decade. But calling them a good team that had the potential to one day be great isn't really a stretch at all.

*split this off because it's worth discussing outside of the tournament, and I don't want to close the thread when a good convo is starting*

Fantastics I'm a big fan of the Hollywood Blondes and don't understand why they've been given some flak lately, but the Fans are a team I hope makes it really far in this tournament.

British Bulldogs More longevity as a tag team, and they showed the ability to work in whatever environment they were in. They were also both better workers individually.

From Meltzer:

WWE.com is totally ignoring that the Hardy run-in even happened, so it looks like they are really going to attempt to play this off as a shoot.

Matt posts this on his website: His pathetic message board crowd is responding as follows: And another ... And one more ... I love it when wrestling fans think they're somehow owed the truth. Great! So now, they've successfully added another layer to this angle, as if there weren't enough already. Rock the fuck on!

Browsing various boards, I'm amazed at how many people are convinced it was a shoot. I've almost forgotten what it feels like to have a believable wrestling angle happen. They may very well fuck it up, but they sure got it off to the right start. I have a feeling Hardy is going to draw a huge crowd in his upcoming ROH debut, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Edge and Lita show up to work an angle there either.

Best angle WWE has done in years. They are going to make billions of dollars off of this if they play it right and everyone involved is going to be very wealthy.

Well, it's nice to see they're going with Cena/Jericho and that HHH is gone for the foreseeable future. Fascinating how Jericho rises right to the top as soon as Trips is out of the picture, and the mic work is actually doing a lot to revitalize Jericho and give Cena a long program he can sink his teeth into as well. Carlito/Benjamin was also a better match than I expected it to be, and the Carlito/Jericho stuff was awesome in the first segment. They also seem to be teasing Matt Hardy's return. RAW just seems more ... lifelike ... without That Guy around.

Any reason?

So, is anything that draws money justified? My personal opinion on that is "no", just because a line needs to be drawn somewhere, and sacrificing a huge long-term event for a short boost is bad business. I think that's part of what has gotten them in the situation they're in now, although they're better in that department than WCW.

So, how do you still keep those fans who currently watch WWE who think guys like Benoit are "boring" and watch wrestling for the over-the-top nature of it? I think it's still possible to do a traditional wrestling product and not necessarily treat it like a sport, but treat it like something that tries to be a sport with rivalries often getting out of hand and things getting personal. Also, the women are a huge draw for the company and I think keeping them around at this stage is a must, but the portrayal is a problem, as is the fact that they have never really pushed a minority diva all that hard. Having Bradshaw make racist comments about Mexicans when the fastest-growing part of Smackdown's audience is Latino can't help things either.

I don't know that I agree with that. I think they still need faces and heels, and they still need storylines. I do agree that the storylines could take a more organic approach though, and center more around this guy trying to beat this guy instead of this guy seeking revenge because this guy dressed like that guy and pretend to rape his dead ex-girlfriend's corpse.

Semi-related, rumor has it that HHH is actually a big fan of Punk and is looking forward to him coming in. I don't know if that's true or not.

We all know why WWE can't attract high-dollar sponsors, despite drawing some of the highest ratings on cable, and we all know why pro wrestling has the image it does among the public. So my question is this -- how does that image get repaired? When I ask that question, I'm not really thinking "Stop doing *this*"-type answers, but rather things they can start doing that make wrestling a little more respectable, more mainstream and something that would attract a wider audience of fans. Recently reading about some of the sponsorship problems WWE has had for most of their existence prompted me to make this topic, and I thought some of the responses might be interesting. Off the top of my head, drug testing, allowing the wrestlers to unionize and portraying women in a more positive light are the big issues, but there are many others as well. Discuss.