Loss

Just wanted to let everyone know this is definitely in the works. I'm hoping to get a separate folder within the wrestling folder set up though, simply because this is going to require a lot of constant new topics, and that way, all the discussion stuff won't be bumped off the main page while this is ongoing. Coffey, I'm thinking we can do an ECW tournament and a WCW tournament later, so that stretches it out because it gives us three tournaments we can do, and if we're still tourney-crazy, we can do an all-encompassing one at some point. Why don't we bump it back to 1985 instead of 1987, though, just so we're looking at an even 20 years?

Both of these are great reviews. Thanks for posting them. I wanted to elaborate on one point, which was the announcing. Isn't listening to JR explain the backgrounds of both at the PPV and listening to the crap he spews now by contrast not sort of depressing? He used to be such an excellent announcer who could get over the match and explain the story, and now, he seems senile in comparison.

Randy Orton v Mick Foley - WWE Backlash 2004 I didn't understand the love for this one at all. I think they're essentially working Mick Foley's Greatest Hits, with Orton taking a few good bumps and having some cool facial expressions here and there, but there's not really anything great happening. I thought the match had a little too much chicanery -- Bischoff comes out and threatens to stop the show if Foley lights Barbie on fire; they disappear for a minute or so before working their way back in front of the audience; when Orton takes the bump off of the ramp, tons of people rush over to check on him and the match's flow almost totally stops. Why were there so many props that just happened to be around the ring? Orton brought his weapons to the ring with him, and Foley's were already conveniently there somehow. I guess we could infer that Mick put them under there before the start of the show, but it really required some type of kayfabed explanation from the announcers to explain their presence. I have no problems with weapons matches and heavy plunder, but I also think there should always be a logical reason for the weapons to be there, even if the wrestler is bringing it to the ring; that's what Orton did, and it worked out fine on his end. In a typical match, if a wrestler uses a chair, it's because he's taking it from someone sitting at ringside, therefore giving the chair a place in this universe. The best table spots, like MX v Fans at Clash I, are the ones where the table has an existing reason to be there. Also, with all of the hardcore matches WWE had done, matches that had been established as comedy matches where they typically put popular guys who couldn't work, using weapons like a garbage can imply a lack of danger, and they should have stayed away from it. I understand that at 39 years old, after years away from the limelight, Foley has to work smarter, disguise his weaknesses, and get more out of less. I didn't expect him to fall off a building into a glass of water or anything, but there were too many cheap shortcuts used in that direction. Compare that to Hogan/Rock at Wrestlemania X-8, where the ring work told the story, even if the personalities involved did overwhelm it at times. The finish also bugged me. Foley kicking out of the RKO was fine, but instead of having Orton do the move again, that was the time to break out a new finisher that would only be used in big match situations. It also didn't help that he did the EXACT same finish with HHH at No Way Out 2000, only with the Pedigree as the move in question. Bischoff threatening to shut down the show was fine, but they teased something really exciting and dangerous and failed to deliver, which is never a good idea. Orton being the one to light Barbie would have been a fantastic touch, and showed that he was willing to risk it all to make a name for himself. I also noticed that after he had soaked the bat in gasoline, he hit Orton with it later in the match. If that was planned, the announcers should have mentioned it and Orton should have sold it like his skin was burning. Imagine what it would feel like pouring gasoline into a blood wound. Yeah. That should have been sold like death. I also don't know how much this feud did to establish Orton. Mick took so much punishment and suffered so much humiliation from start to finish that beating him didn't really mean much at all, because it seemed effortless. Mick didn't protect himself in the buildup, and I think it made Orton's accomplishments not mean as much as they should have, because you basically had Mick saying, "Hey, look at me, I'm putting over this rising star by losing to him!" It was almost pretentious, and it was hardly genuine.

The elbow drop did look rusty, but Lesnar sold it well enough to cover it up, so I think the move was saved. Taker does use the hand, but every time he uses it, he screams out anyway. I do think Brock oversold Taker's punches with that hand, considering that it had been broken, twice, in the buildup and Lesnar had been working him over like a madman prior to that. That much is true. That's probably the only reason I didn't go higher. I loved the level of sheer violence, and they definitely provided the aura the HIAC gimmick is supposed to have. Race/Flair is boring. It's also Ric Flair's coming out party. Without it, he wouldn't be quite the same guy.

Yes.

I think criminals have more fun than cops.

You need to say fuck the police, and start letting people get away with whatever they want.

Undertaker v Brock Lesnar - Hell in the Cell (WWE No Mercy 2002) This, to me, was an excellent match, although it was more of a war than a match. This is as utterly violent as anything I've ever seen in WWE; in fact, it's probably the most physically violent match I've ever seen in WWE. Lesnar is just a machine here, dismantling Taker's hand with precision. The multiple chairshots on his hand are cringe-worthy, and there are some terrific spots. I also love the no-frills build. Lesnar and Taker do everything right to communicate hate; well, at least Lesnar does. I'll touch on Taker later. Brock was just about flawless, completely destroying Taker's hand and ripping off the cast, which gets a huge "Oh!" pop from the Little Rock crowd. The other "Oh!" pop comes when Taker starts bleeding. Aside from Eddy's bleeding in Eddy/JBL, this is the sickest bladejob I've seen in WWE. 'Taker is just a mess. The opening minute is really strong, with Taker elbowing the shit out of Lesnar's face and Brock catching him with a great powerslam early on, bringing the cool false finishes right out of the gate. When Taker doesn't back off, Brock tries to get out of the cage and realizes that he can't, so he gets desperate in quick fashion and goes to work on Taker's hand. Taker screams out in agony, which considering his usual no-selling act means a lot. It's the one advantage that him squashing people has; when he does sell for someone, they're automatically taken seriously. Brock doesn't back off and Taker keeps punching him away, and every time he does it, his hand gets weaker and weaker and his screams get louder and louder. Lesnar starts bleeding before long, and his bladejob is weak, especially by contrast to the gusher of his opponent. This was probably the first time he had ever bladed. The match spills to the floor and Heyman tries to interfere through the holes in the cage, which results in Taker grabbing him by the tie and pulling him face first into the cage repeatedly. The crowd eats it up, and Paul E. motherfucking BLEEDS! I guess "He's hardcore! He's hardcore!" after all. Taker also gets in some other cool offense, including throwing Brock into the cage and clotheslining the fuck out of him. He uses the cage well also, dropping a leg from the top rope to the apron. Heyman, to elaborate more, takes his lumps here, and deserves credit for it. While Taker is pulling him into the cage repeatedly, Brock goes to break it up and goes crashing into both Heyman and the cage. Brock comes back quickly enough running Taker's back back and forth between the ringpost and the cage in an awesome spot. There were a few things I didn't like. Taker going for a pinfall on the outside was one of them, because in WWE, fans associate falls outside the ring with comedy matches in the hardcore division, and this was not a hardcore match. It's also far out of the view of the fans in the building, so it's nearly impossible to get a pop off of a false finish. So, it was a wasted effort. I also thought that while Taker's selling was strong, his comebacks really weren't. His facial expressions were actually the weakest part of the match, because he looked exhausted, not really in pain. I also didn't like that so much of the match took place outside the ring in that one little corner, because it hurt the heat. Besides that, I can't say much horrible about it. ***3/4

***, which will seem low to some. The reason I didn't include it was because I was trying to be deceptive. The *'s just don't accurately surmise the story here. Despite not being anywhere near the best of Flair, the best of Race, or the best of Flair v Race, this is Flair's breakout moment, and anyone who considers themselves a fan of his should see it. The three stars are for nothing more than the match's logic -- there isn't really anything within the confines of it that goes against the story they're trying to tell (aside from the referee) and there isn't anything glaringly wrong with what Flair and Race are doing. There just isn't anything great about it either, aside from the atmosphere, the occasion and Flair's coming of age.

Ric Flair v Harley Race - Starrcade 1983 (Cage Match) To properly explain this match, the setting and circumstances surrounding the match are crucial parts of the story. It's necessary to understand the impact, the emotion and the place in history this match has. Ric Flair won his first world championship on September 17, 1981, from Dusty Rhodes, in Kansas City, Missouri. Flair was winning the NWA World Championship for the very first time, in a town where neither was a known star, from a champion that was unhappy about dropping the belt. Flair proceeded to hold the belt for 21 months, touring Japan and making a name for himself. He went to All Japan Pro Wrestling, where he battled Jumbo Tsuruta, Genichiro Tenryu and longtime rival Ricky Steamboat in memorable matches. He went to Alabama, where he defended his title against Austin Idol in a match where local fans desperately wanted to see him lose. He went to Florida, where he had his first-ever encounter with Barry Windham, who would be a legendary opponent for him in the future. He went to Georgia, where he made his first appearance on national television as the world heavyweight champion, on a network to which he'd become more acquainted later. He went to Portland, where he wrestled in two best of three falls matches against local boy Brett Wayne Sawyer. He went to Memphis, where he was hoodwinked by local legend Jerry Lawler into defending the NWA World title on television, an unheard of practice at the time. He went to Dallas, where he faced the most popular of the Von Erich brothers, playing part in a story that would play itself out in that town for five years. He went home, to North Carolina, showing off his newfound success, much to the delight of friends, family and longtime supporters who knew he'd have his day. And on June 10, 1983, he went to St. Louis, Missouri. Flair's first title reign was impressive. He conquered the world in one fell swoop. It was the beginning of a great story, the beginning of a great career. Flair, however, would not walk out of St. Louis a champion. The title would return to the hands of the man who had worn it six times before, Harley Race. Harley Race was very similar to Ric Flair in many ways -- both did whatever was necessary to keep the title in their possession, both enjoyed the life of a champion and both took their standing very seriously. In more ways, they were completely different, which is evident before the match even begins. Music entrances were becoming popularized, and Flair was part of the generation that was seeing that happen. His entrance is preceded by the pomp and circumstance of the theme from 2001 - A Space Odyssey. Race needs no such introduction, and the only music played with his entrance is the roar composed by the live crowd. Flair smiles at the audience and accepts flowers from adorning women, while the fans earn only the scowl of his opponent. Race began wrestling professionally at the age of 17, establishing a name for himself the hardest way and earning respect based on his toughness, to which Gordon Solie alludes. Flair was an amateur standout at the University of Minnesota and started wrestling at the age of 22. He was the son of a physician and lived a good life. Of his peers, Harley Race is the last man standing. Of his peers, Ric Flair is the first man standing out. November 24, 1983, was the date where pro wrestling stopped being what it was, and started being what it is. Prior to this event, Race was defending his title against Flair in the Mid-Atlantic area when Bob Orton and Dick Slater interfered on the champion's behalf, severely injuring him, betraying a friend, and thus collecting a bounty to take Ric Flair out of the sport in the process. Flair would soon apologize to his fans for being unable to return, but thank them for the support they granted him in the first place, stating that he was being forced into retirement. His enemies gloated in their accomplishment, until they were surprised by Flair showing up and chasing them all away with a baseball bat in hand, vowing revenge. Promoters made the match for Thanksgiving night in Greensboro, North Carolina, and decided to call the event Starrcade. The match would take place inside of a steel cage, which was the first time ever that the NWA World title had been defended in such a match. Race spoke out against the structure, calling it barbaric, and saying that he would not disrespect the championship by defending it in such an environment. He was eventually forced into accepting the match. It was also decided that in the interest of fairness, former NWA champ Gene Kiniski would be the special referee. The mother of all staredowns starts the match, as both speak volumes without saying a word. Ric Flair is energetic and full of charisma; it was obvious to anyone who was paying attention that he was the NWA's next superstar. A simple "whooo!" energizes the crowd and gives them hope. Flair takes control early, with a headlock, which Race breaks, but Flair finds a way to get him back into the hold. Race breaks again, and then catches Flair with a high knee, only to miss a headbutt. Flair goes back to the headlock, which he realizes isn't enough, so he switches into a front facelock and also holds the arm, attempting to secure a pinfall. Race counters the front facelock by returning to a vertical base and executing his first of many vertical suplexes, but he follows with an elbow drop that misses its target. A theme is developing that Race can't string together two successful moves. This is a defined build. This isn't a modern-day WWE-style match where they start off with a headlock because that's what long matches do; there is consistent progression from move to move. Race is the first to bend the rules by choking out Flair, and Gene Kiniski puts himself over for the first of many times by stepping in aggressively and breaking the momentum of the match. Harley follows up with rabbit punches to Flair's neck, establishing his game plan, as he and his hired goons had sidelined Flair with a career-threatening neck injury just months before. A piledriver and elbow drop get a nearfall, but he might have gotten a victory had he covered him sooner. Race's next tactic is to execute a swinging neckbreaker and drop repeated knees on the back of Flair's neck. Not that anyone needed to be reminded, but Race reinforces his role as the villain by exposing his hypocrisy. He complained loudly about the match being held inside of a steel cage, but he was the first to use the structure to his advantage as a weapon. Flair teases a comeback, but Race cuts him off with a pair of well-timed headbutts and repeatedly rams Flair into the cage. Flair starts bleeding, but he also starts fighting back, which Kiniski blocks to put the spotlight on himself. Race saves the sequence, putting the heat back on himself and off of the referee. Flair comes back again and is finally able to regain control of the match. He gets revenge on Race for throwing him into the cage, which causes Race to also start bleeding. Flair moves in for the kill, dropping a knee on his cut open forehead, and he continues to even the score. He gets his own piledriver, he snaps Race's neck and then he executes a nice butterfly suplex. He turns more violent, which causes Kiniski to yet again step in and place the focus back on himself. This gives Race a chance to find an opening, as he headbutts Flair's lower abdomen and rakes his head on the fence, causing Kiniski to literally pull him off of the cage. Flair comes back yet again and goes to hit Race with a punch, but Kiniski grabs his hand, leaving an opening for Race to sneak in his own closed fist punch, which the crowd absolutely hates. Flair can't be stopped now, though, and punches Race repeatedly in the forehead before applying a figure four leglock. The vision of Ric Flair locking in his finishing manuever on Harley Race on a blood-stained mat with the letters NWA in the middle is an amazing one, and nicely sums up what this match was all about. Race rolls out of the hold and into the ropes, and manages to shift the tide yet again with another headbutt. He attempts a vertical suplex, but Flair reverses the move and nearly gets a victory as a result. Race comes back with a middle rope headbutt and now successfully executes the vertical suplex. He again throws Flair into the cage. "At this point, he looks like a beaten man," announcer Bob Caudle says of Flair. Kiniski yet again pulls Race to the center of the ring, and this time by the hair! Flair blocks another vertical suplex attempt and counters with one of his own, but now Flair misses an elbow drop, which signifies that Race has gained momentum and Flair has lost it. Kiniski takes something that I'm sure he calls a bump, but really isn't, and Flair gets a flying bodypress off of the top rope for the pinfall and secures his second world title. This match is painfully slow, even taken in the context of its time, considering what Jumbo Tsuruta, Jaguar Yokota, Ricky Steamboat, Bob Backlund, Ted DiBiase and especially Tiger Mask and Dynamite Kid were accomplishing at the time. There are no flashy moves, which is fine, but the moves that are used are repeated far too many times, in Race's case his vertical suplex. The referee sees the opportunity not to let the two brightest stars shine on a night when Flair and Race were getting unprecedented exposure, but rather as a chance to establish himself as a hard-nosed referee who's still a tough and fair guy. The match wasn't about him, and everyone except him seemed to understand that. All said, the match is still essential for fans of Ric Flair, and even more so for those who look to fully understand how he became the man. Of course, he's been telling us all these years anyway that it's by beating the man, and watching this shows us that he only speaks from personal experience. Vince McMahon came to Harley Race and asked him to jump to the WWF with the title just before this event. Harley Race's response was for him to take a good look at himself in the mirror. He knew the importance of what he was doing here, and this was basically a passing of the torch, on the first supercard of the modern era, a modern pro wrestling staple which is hard to see as special anymore since we see them more times in a year than there are months in a year now. The first title reign showed that Ric Flair could become a legend. The second title win made him one. The crowd knows this as well, as they chant "Two, two, two!" at him after the match. Future rivals, past legends and just a few of the many casualties of the wrestling business hoist Flair on their shoulders, uniting to celebrate the occasion. Flair's wife Beth enters the ring and hugs him. It was what would eventually be Flair's area, the Carolinas, the same Carolinas where he made Sting a superstar in 1988; the same Carolinas where he defied the odds to defeat Vader for the World title in 1993 after most had written him off; the same area Carolinas where he returned after a bitter legal battle in 1998; the same Carolinas where his peers paid tribute to him in a moment shared with the audience in 2003. This match nicely captures everything Ric Flair is all about, great work or no great work. "To try and explain what a major part all of you have played in this would take a long time, but I want you to know, each and every one of you that are here tonight, and each and every one of you that are out in closed circuit locations: this is the greatest night of my life, and I can't thank you ... thank you very much!" -- the new NWA World Champion, covered in blood, sweat and tears, about to embark on a journey more exciting than he could have ever possibly predicted ***, which will seem low to some. The *'s just don't accurately surmise the story here, though. Despite this match not being anywhere near the best of Flair, the best of Race, or the best of Flair v Race, this is Flair's breakout moment, and anyone who considers himself a fan of the "Nature Boy" should see it. The three stars are for nothing more than the match's logic -- there isn't really anything within the confines of it that goes against the story they're trying to tell (aside from the referee) and there isn't anything glaringly wrong with what Flair and Race are doing. There just isn't anything great about it either, aside from the atmosphere, the occasion and Flair's coming of age.

Chris Benoit v HHH v HBK - WWE Backlash 2004 So, this was Benoit's first high-profile title defense, eh? Edmonton seems to be quite thrilled that he won the gold, and so does Benoit, as he puts the belt in both Hunter and Shawn's faces, probably realizing the chances of him ever doing *that* again wouldn't be in this lifetime. The match starts off with HBK and Benoit, before HHH pokes his nose in things so he could have his say. HHH sucks in this match, by the way. The largest part of this sees him almost completely ignoring the crowd, but to his credit, the best thing he did for this match was stay out of the way for most of it; the story plays out more of Shawn getting pissed at the crowd's accusations that he screwed Bret, and responding to those allegations by beating up Chris Benoit. I almost wish he would have played more of a heel, but I understand why he didn't, since he still had to come back to the US and be everybody's hero again. He takes a very nice bump when he misses a crossbody from the top rope to the floor, thus sending him sailing through the ringside announce table. This causes Jim Ross to assert that "HHH has just found himself behind the wheel of a world championship vehicle." If you can translate that into something that makes sense, you should apply for the UN ambassador job currently being debated in the Senate. Go on, go and good luck not being filibustered. HHH, the only true heel this match has to offer, wrestles clean as a sheet until he brings the sledgehammer into the ring and attacks Michaels with it, which is toward the end of this match. I don't understand why all along, he wasn't trash talking, stooging, cheating and acting like a real heel. He was too busy doing count along corner punches, which is the babyface's domain. I don't recall this being announced as a no-DQ match, and JR didn't step in and say "this is a no disqualification match"; he only said that HHH could do whatever he wanted and that the ref couldn't do anything about it. Make your own jokes. The announcing wasn't all that good here, with Jerry Lawler pretending not to know who Verne Gagne was, and JR reminding us that Benoit went to wrestling school with only $20 in his pocket about ten thousand times. You'd think JR was fucking pigpocketing him as many times as he mentions it. Benoit is better than the other two, but he tends to overdo it with the German suplex and crossface attempts. He tries the sharpshooter a few times, and even gets the win with it, but besides that it's either crossface or Germans, Germans or crossface. HBK having him in the sharpshooter, leaving Earl Hebner to run in as the second referee and officiate the rest of the match, was the best part of this match, and a nice touch of continuity. I also liked the fire and spirit behind the HHH/HBK slugfest in the latter stages, with Shawn slapping Hunter in the face and shoving him between HHH's punches. It's the closest they ever came here to making me think they hated each other. Without the obligatory heat for Chris Benoit in his hometown, the crowd didn't react all that much, unless they were chanting obscenities at Shawn Michaels. So it's hard for me to say the match had any heat, or that any of the work created any heat. This one sucks at the teat of the original, perfect finish and all.

Rey Misterio Jr v Chavo Guerrero Jr - WWE No Way Out 2004 June apparently comes before February in Lossland, because I'm watching this match after watching the other. So, while I put my thang down, flip it and reverse it, you can continue using your severely outdated "calendar" with "dates" and "numbers". I'm on crack. Rey and Chavo aren't. You'd think they were selling drugs, though, based on how much the crowd reacts perfectly to everything they're doing. Rey and Chavo are as squeaky clean as Mother Theresa, though; they sell the rana, not the reefer. Cole does his job and gives me a quick reminder of why these guys are fighting -- Chavo accuses Rey of not being proud of his culture and heritage. It's simple. It works. It's a hell of a heat magnet. So is trying to rip off your opponent's mask, which Guerrero does pretty quickly. Rey stops him and fires back, to the millions of people who never saw his face in WCW's delight, and a story starts developing. Rey and Chavo both have really effective seconds at ringside, and Paez getting ejected for punching Chavo Classic gets the biggest heel pop of the match. Chavo works over Rey's sternum and back throughout the match, giving us cool moves like the top-rope gutbuster, the Gory special and a face-first vertical suplex. Rey takes Chavo's three and raises him 20, pulling out a moonsault for the ages, along with a fabulous jumping DDT off the ring apron. His kicks to Chavo's face look and sound stiff. Even the small moves look awesome; check out the way Chavo locks his arms behind his back when he applies the abdominal stretch on Rey. There are some really good nearfalls here, but overall the work is a little more transparent than what we'd get at the Great American Bash. What I mean by that is that this seems like it would be better -- there are bigger moves, there's better booking, there's more heat, I believe it runs a few minutes longer and the match is a little more historically significant, since it's a title change. The difference is in the way it all comes together. GAB saw them build progressively from spot to spot, from beginning to end, and a key part of its success was the transition from one stage of the match to the next. Here, that tightness and coherence isn't so much in play. That's not so much a weakness to this match as it is a testament to the Bash. This is still something I'd recommend anyone see, but come to Lossland and watch the Bash match first. I think it'll make you appreciate the place of both. ***1/4

Kurt Angle v Big Show v John Cena - WWE No Way Out 2004 My first thought before I watched this one was that there could be some cool spots in the match, since they could build the match around two small faces teaming up against one large heel, but that formula also has the potential to work against them by making Show sympathetic. Triple threat matches are a major double-edged sword. I wish I understood John Cena's appeal, as the crowd goes wild for his pre-match promo filled with corny insults that rhyme! I guess that makes it a poem, doesn't it? He just seems so childish. Did I just answer my own question? His work in this match is pretty spotty, for a variety of reasons. He gets tossed out of the ring early on and starts selling his knee, which Cole hammers home was injured when he was eliminated from the Royal Rumble. He decides to sell it at times, but also turns it off at times. He has no problems running the ropes, kicking with that leg and picking Show up for the FU, but he'll perform the move normally then start selling, which means he's not really selling, he's just lying around. If he was selling, there would be cause and effect. A lot of it also seems ingenuine, like he's not really hurting, but he's going to make a face like he is anyway because that's what he was taught to do in OVW. His punches also look pretty shitty. Thankfully, that sort of thing does improve as the match goes on ... at times. There was one point in the match when he was on offense and Show tried to stop it, but Cena countered him. He then got up and acted like he was making a comeback, but that's sort of hard to do when you never really went anywhere anyway. Kurt Angle is Kurt Angle here, which means he does most things in perfectly acceptable fashion, but he misses quite a few opportunities. He lands some great punches on Show, which Show sells beautifully, and then he is dominating Cena for a couple of minutes, but doesn't really deviate from punching and kicking, despite having all the tools to vary things up a little. I don't really care for the way he does the rolling Germans, but his missile dropkick on Big Show is fantastic, and it surprised me, since I'd never seen him do that move before. I wish he wouldn't have used the Olympic Slam to get a cheap pop when he had so much other stuff at his disposal, and I think it's safe to say the move is officially dead -- the crowd barely pops for the false finish after Show kicks out. He's easily the most athletic of the three, but he would have been better here if he could have figured out if he wanted to be a face or a heel. Big Show is the best performer in this match. Sure, he's not as athletic as Angle or as charismatic as Cena, but he understands his role, which is more than I can say for the other two. At times, he does indeed look like the babyface, if only because Angle and Cena seem to be there in the early stages to clown around and upstage each other, while Show came to win. So, the end result of Show being sympathetic is the same, but it's for entirely different reasons than I feared. He drops some nice legdrops on Cena at one point, and also catches him with an awesome vertical suplex in the best spot of the match. When Cena forgets that his knee hurts, Show is there to remind him by stepping on it. He also suplexes him knee first into the turnbuckle. How cool is that? He also sells the anklelock far more effectively than Cena, screaming out in pain, creating a very weak and tiny pitch out of a very large and strong body. The last part of the match is finisher, finisher, finisher, finisher attempt, finisher attempt, finisher attempt, finisher. Bobby Finisher, where is he? I don't know. I don't know. Angle finally gets lucky with the anklelock, Cena taps out, and the stage is set for Wrestlemania. This match did do a better job of working within the one-man-out limitation than many of the other three-ways I've seen, so it does have that to its credit. The crowd was also red hot throughout, which makes for an enjoyable viewing, and they were admittedly popping for some of the work just as much as they were the personalities involved in it. Some of the biggest pops, in fact, come from moves that are *attempted* but never happen, like Show's hopeful chokeslam off the apron, or Angle's German suplex to the floor that was never executed. I think there's something to be said for that because it's smart work -- it creates the illusion that the audience is seeing a potentially dangerous match, even if they're not. Cole and Tazz also hold up their end of the deal by calling the match as concisely as they possibly can. This is neither the best nor the worst triple threat match I've seen. It would probably end up somewhere above the HHH/HBK/Benoit match at Backlash, but it would be behind Rey/Juvi/Kidman or the WM XX main event. So to give my short answer to your long-winded question, decent in parts, but spotty and without flow, and not something worth going out of your way to see. (As a total aside, Cena tapping wasn't a horrible decision, but damn, they could have done so much to play off it with his singles match with Show around the corner for Wrestlemania. If you recall, Cena was telling anyone who would listen around that time that he was going to headline Wrestlemania XX, and Show could have pointed out that when he had that opportunity, he blew it, and that he's coming for revenge, because Cena fucked not only himself over, but Show as well. "We're scheduled for the opener now when I should have been in the main event!" Show could have declared, leaving Cena with something major to prove come pay-per-view time.)

I think I need to watch them one more time before I'm totally comfortable talking about them. I'm about to start on "If You Want Blood". And I do. Want blood.

Hassan has a great character, and if he ever gets really good in the ring, his career is set. He's the type of character that doesn't have to be in main events or even win most of his matches to be effective, as long as he's protected in the buildup. Fans will always clamor to see him lose, and his character has the potential to draw big money. He's a modernized version of the Iron Shiek, although Shiek was good in the ring before his age caught up to him. Daivari is the one who really carries the duo, though, I think -- he's the better heel of the two, the better worker of the two and he's the best ringside second I've seen in quite some time. I hope he stays paired with Hassan, only because at his size, he'll get buried if he ever moves on without him. Some have even suggested that Daivari should be the one getting this push with Hassan as his backup muscle. I don't know why they don't try to make that Hassan/Daivari dynamic with Edge and Christian, where you have Christian hanging out around Edge all the time, running interferences and doing a lot of great promos. If they want Edge to be a headliner, that would work. Yeah, Christian has more potential than that, but I doubt they'll ever push him to that level, and both of them are better together than apart. Not to derail the thread or anything, but I just wanted to make that point.

Rey Misterio Jr v Chavo Guerrero Jr - WWE Great American Bash 2004 What a match! I like the opening sequence a lot, with Rey busting out La Magistral early on and getting a nearfall pretty quickly. Chavo's ultra-low sunset flip is cool too, that may be the lowest one I've seen. Being really blown away by that move reminded me of the first time I saw one of Eddy Guerrero's low dropkicks. I can't imagine how hard that is to execute. The match starts out as a battle of wills, and that theme continues through the match. At first, each is fighting over control of his opponent's arm. There's a really great face/heel dynamic going on, with Chavo doing a better job of keeping the audience involved than I've ever seen from him. The coolness of it all is that every time they end up working any type of sequence, it always ends right back where it started, with Rey in control of Chavo's arm. Nice transitional move with Rey going up top and injuring his knee, giving Chavo a chance to do some terrific Flair-like leg work. The rule of threes is in effect here, as Chavo keeps placing Rey's leg on the ropes so he can drop his weight on it, and the third time he tries it, Rey uses his good leg to kick Chavo out of the ring. Fuck Zach Gowen, Rey Misterio is the best one-legged wrestler ever in this match, taking awesome spin bumps off of Chavo's kicks. He even sells the leg *while* running the ropes. The attention to detail shown there is very cool. Whether it was intended or not, Chavo doing the Brock Lock on Rey mid-ring is some great continuity, going back to him losing out big in his world title match against Brock Lesnar in San Diego. This time, Rey gets out of it, and I love the next spot too, with Chavo executing a vertical suplex into a tree of woe position. That's an inventive spot, one I had never seen. He misses a blind charge soon enough though and reinjures his bicep. Michael Cole rocks in this match on commentary -- pointing out that there are two stories in play here, Chavo's injured bicep and Rey's injured knee. Both sell consistently without dragging down the pace at all. Chavo executes a Gory special, which gets a really good nearfall and plays into the finish nicely, as there he would try it again and Rey would counter it this time. I also love Chavo countering the West Coast Pop into a single leg crab, which is sold and worked tenaciously. The only drawback to it is that Rey "heroically" reaches the ropes. This is more an indictment of WWE style, but traditionally, reaching for the ropes or being in the ropes is a heel spot, and WWE has made it something it was never intended to be where wrestlers try with everything they have to get to the ropes. The right psychology should be that the babyface won't take the easy way out and instead counters the hold, while the heel is quick to get there. And technically, wrestling rules have always been that you have to be in the ropes for a hold to be broken, NOT reaching for them. Anyway, that's a small gripe, and this was just a convenient time to point it out. My other problem with this match is how contrived the 619 setup looks. Rey got a huge pop doing the move in his first match, and in typical WWE fashion, they want it to be a signature spot of his and it gets run into the ground. It's something that happens a lot -- it happened when X-Pac used the Bronco Buster, it happened when Rikishi would do the stinkface and it happens when Jericho does the boxing shuffle before doing the vegamatic. Nice finishing reversal, as Rey counters Chavo's second attempt at the Gory Special in what is really the ultimate revenge spot, as he retains the cruiserweight title. I'd probably call this one of Rey's must-see matches (not sure where I'd rank it overall since there's still essential Rey I haven't seen) and Chavo's best match I've seen, period. **** -- and would possibly be higher if not for the limitations of the WWE style that everyone in the company has to work around.

Eddy/JBL in a cake walk. Savage/Warrior is a match that's 90% based on sentiment and 10% based on work, while Eddy/JBL is about 95% based on work. They're both great for entirely different reasons, but yes, I do prefer Eddy/JBL. Savage/Warrior is pro wrestling's answer to a Grimm's fairy tale.

I PM'd Tim Cooke and thanked him for pimping the match so much, and he again gave credit to Phil and Tom at DVDVR for talking about it first, because he respects their opinions so much. Either way, I'm glad people are coming around to this match and I think anyone who watches it with an open mind will be blown away.

This, right here, is why Goodhelmet is so gung-ho on posters explaining themselves when discussing matches, and he's absolutely right. Star ratings are totally subjective. All of wrestling is, actually, and I do agree that everyone is entitled to an opinion. However, an opinion that Hulk Hogan was a better worker than Ric Flair, or that AJPW was the worst promotion in the world in the 1990s, or some other example along the same lines, would be one I considered ridiculous, and I probably wouldn't take the person's word for much else. So yes, people are entitled to believe whatever they choose to believe, and there are no "right" or "wrong" star ratings, but there are People Whose Opinions I Respect and People Whose Opinions I Don't Take Under Consideration. I'd assume the same applies to everyone. There's actually a movement in place to talk about the entire TM/DK series soon enough, WP. I'll reserve my more detailed thoughts for then, but I'm going to say now that I do not agree with your assertion. That doesn't mean you're "wrong", necessarily, but it does mean that I'm baffled at your conclusion.

WOW. I thought the match was great, but...seriously? That's some high praise there. Absolutely. Austin/Rock and Rock/Jericho from 2001 are two matches that are close, but Eddy/JBL edges them out for me. Perhaps the reason for that is that I love Memphis wrestling so much, and whether it was the intent or not, this match is every bit as much a tribute to the old Lawler matches as Benoit/Sasuke from the '94 J Cup is to Tiger Mask/Dynamite Kid.

Maybe he wanted a star rating at the end, just to show as a quick reference what you think of it overall. I'm curious, what would yours be on Eddy/JBL?

Watching this match makes me want to do a comp at some point tracing the evolution of those Southern Style brawls, showing how we got from Lawler/Dundee to Eddy/JBL over the course of 20+ years. Maybe in the future.

I think it's on par with both Austin/Bret matches, and it's as good as anything Shawn Michaels or Randy Savage ever did. It's better than any of Benoit's matches in the company, and I'd rank it above Austin/Rock from WM X-7 even. People need to see this match! I'm saddened that it got so little credit at the time, and I hope over time, that will change. Pushing JBL in that spot cold turkey wasn't really the wisest decision, but on his end, he did everything he possibly could to make the role work, especially in this match. I can't wait to watch the bullrope match from GAB. I'll probably give it a viewing tonight.

Eddy Guerrero v John Bradshaw Layfield - WWE Judgment Day 2004 This match gets me hooked in right from the get-go. JBL, in front of a largely Hispanic crowd, advises them to save a spot on the boat so Eddy Guerrero can be shipped back to that third world country called Mexico. The announcers do a great job of explaining the backstory in quick concise fashion. JBL is basically a racist motherfucker who's way too big for his britches that has insulted Eddy's heritage and culture, and even caused his mom to have a mild heart attack. So, JBL's pre-match promo nicely sets the stage for what by all rights should be remembered as a classic match. Crowd is deafening throughout, although admittedly, I'm not sure how much of that is real heat and how much of it is post-production sweetening. Eddy takes it to Bradshaw very aggressively at the opening bell, which does a nice job in establishing roles and playing off the storyline already established. You might expect Eddy to come in and get dominated early on because of the size difference, only to come back at the end, but that would have been the wrong booking here. He reacts like just about anyone would who caused his mom a heart attack, short of using an illegal weapon, by beating the hell out of him, throwing him around the ring and at ringside like a ragdoll and beating him at his own game -- brawling. I love this for two reasons: (1) Eddy is a new champ that is still being established as a top guy. Going toe-to-toe with someone so much bigger than him works nicely in that direction. (2) Bradshaw is *not* a great wrestler. If he has a strength at all, it's his brawling ability, and Eddy is beating him at his own game. If the goal was to make both look strong up until this point, it was accomplished in spades. Bradshaw does stooge and beg off from Eddy, but that's because he realized he underestimated him and he's surprised at his determination. I love the fact that the only way Bradshaw could get an opening was the way it should have happened -- it wasn't because Eddy made a mistake or missed a move, it was because JBL was thinking on his feet and created his own opening, performing a fallaway slam, one of his trademark moves, on the floor, which Eddy sold like death. It was a nice bump and a great transitional spot. Bradshaw would basically have to do three things to beat Eddy -- deplete his energy, slow the pace down and neutralize his ability to fly. In that sense, the side headlock is the perfect move to work in that direction. It sounds simple, but it works. This isn't a traditional side headlock spot where it's used as a resthold -- the positioning of Bradshaw's weight on Guerrero's neck and shoulders while Tazz explains the psychology on the move perfectly on commentary is what makes it work. It accomplishes what it set out to do quite nicely, and now Bradshaw is in control. The crowd never stops chanting for Eddy, and Bradshaw never gives them a reason to no longer care. He stays on offense convincingly, without stalling, and is quick to play to the crowd as often as he can. I've seen too many matches that would be great if the wrestlers actually treated the audience like a third worker, and that's what they did here. Referee Brian Hebner, however, was the fourth worker of the match, taking a nice bump off of Eddy that was set up in interesting fashion. Just as Eddy was starting to make his comeback, he *realistically* and inadvertently bumped into Hebner and knocked him down. It was so much more creative than typical WWE ref bumps, and it was the right thing to do here, because it added drama to the match. We go outside the ring and Eddy makes the mistake of signaling that he's about to throw Bradshaw through the announce table. Yeah, he does it, and even silences the announcers for a few minutes, but JBL finds a way to turn the tide quite easily -- he pelts Guerrero with the Mother Of All Chairshots and to say Eddy juices is an understatement. It easily replaces Jericho at SMW's Night of Legends as the worst (read: best) bladejob I've ever seen. You can actually see the blood squirting out of his forehead Kill Bill-style. It's pretty sick, but adds another layer of drama to the match. JBL gets Eddy back in the ring, the mat of which is now almost covered in red, and stiffs the hell out of him with perhaps the best lariat I've ever seen in an American ring. Bradshaw tries to revive the ref, but it doesn't work, and he starts pounding on his back out of frustration. Referee Charles Robinson comes down and Eddy kicks out at the last millisecond, which the audience totally bought as the finish, because of the combination of Eddy's bladejob and JBL's established finisher. They could not have made this more effective -- the match needed at least one major false finish (a few more would follow), and something extra needed to be done besides the Clothesline From Hell to make the audience think it could actually result in a title change. That's was the purpose of the bladejob, and at least for the context of this match, anyone who saw JBL as a beer-drinking APA member had that vision of him erased for the next few minutes. He follows up with a ferocious powerbomb and gets another nearfall. He goes for yet another lariat, but Eddy ducks and he ends up knocking down the second referee. The first referee is now starting to revive, and even his selling rocks! Eddy Hulks up, but not really in the traditional sense, and not without writing off the damage done to him before that. How could he? It's not a Shawn Michaels kip up where he forgets about all the damage done to him in advance; it's a logical comeback at a logical point in time. The timing of everything, in fact, is probably what makes this match work above all else. Eddy misses his first frogsplash attempt, which would be important later, and it's a FLAWLESS transition to the finish, which sees JBL going outside to grab the championship belt and the chair. The announcers speculate why he has both, pointing out that if he gets himself DQ'd, he can't win the title, but his gameplan quickly becomes evident. He throws a chair to the side to distract the ref and intends to hit Eddy with the belt, but Eddy kicks him in the balls! To a huge pop! Markout city! He then picks up the belt JBL brought in the ring and hits him with it, drawing a DQ, which the audience doesn't like at all. The key to having the audience accept that decision is the post-match brawl, which I actually think should be considered when talking about this match, because it's loaded with payback spots. Eddy may be bleeding, but he sure as Hell isn't going to go down alone, and he gets in a great pair of chairshots on his own on JBL, and finally gets that frogsplash that he missed earlier. The referees are trying to restrain him, and he starts pushing them away, and it eventually takes the 81st Airborne to separate him from JBL. The DQ totally worked. First, it created a nice parity and really cool contradiction for the rematch -- Eddy had beat JBL at his own game (brawling) while JBL had beaten Eddy at his own game (tactical cheating). They each had an unexpected advantage over the other. Second, it kept the door open for a rematch, and after that, a promoter would be a fool not to book one. The entire match built to a DQ finish; I actually think a clean finish here would have *hurt* the match more than it helped it, because it would have totally opposed the build before it. As a huge fan of old territory footage, this match was a must, and I'm saddened I didn't see it live when it happened, because I would have supported Smackdown with everything I had had I known the top feud was this good. The booking leading into the match was straight out of something you'd see in an old Jerry Lawler match in Memphis or out of Ted DiBiase in Mid South, kind of the next progressive step in the evolution of Southern brawls. It's modernized more than it is a throwback, but it still takes a template that was established in some of Lawler's bloodbaths in the 1970s and 1980s and makes it work in 2004. Going that route was pure genius, and it's something I never even would have considered. To explain the parallels, Lawler's matches were usually constructed around the idea of building to three things: (1) Lawler's fiery comebacks (2) A finish that doesn't leave the audience deflated, but will ensure that they're left wanting more (3) Blood In terms of #1, Lawler pulling the straps down equals Eddy shaking his fists and doing his dance to signify that it's time to make his comeback. The parallel with #2 is very apparent, because Memphis had a tendency to run DQ finishes to set up the big match the following week or month, which is exactly what this was. And boy, did this match deliver on #3. This is what WWE should be. This is what American wrestling should be. I can't say enough for how much I loved this match. ****1/2 (yes, you read that right)

This should be fun. Do you happen to have the Observer issued right after WCW did the Fingerpoke of Doom title change with Hogan and Nash? Goodhelmet and I were just talking about it, and we're very curious what he had to say about it at the time. Post whenever you can and if you can. Thanks!