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I think Matt's point is that there are 10 or so Savage-Steamboat singles matches. It's a lot easier to watch 10 Macho-Steamer matches than Iron Mike vs Mr. Baby Doll matches.

This was a page turner, which isn't a phrase I would use for any pro wrestling book. Very solid, Jon.

If you're just going through every house show, it's no big deal. With Steamer-Savage, you're trying to figure out differences in similar matches to determine recommendations. They can be small differences... hell, the Rockers-Brainbusters house show series is made up of fairly slim differences between their matches. With Sharpe-Houston, you can sort of turn your brain off to two things: * was it good or not? * if it was good, is it good enough to recommend? If it doesn't reach a "yes" on the second, there is no real reason to try to figure out how it compares with other Sharpe-Houston matches... unless that's something that really interests someone in sifting through the WWF in the 80s. Fan #1: "What's the best Conquistadors vs Power & Roma match?" Fan #2: "Don't know. None of them really grabbed me enough to give them that much thought." John

Disagree with this if one is trying to make *recommendations*. There are times where matches at the same "stage" of a feud are all generally the same, and duplicative. But there are reasons to watch them: * one might be the best of the bunch * differences in setting / filming / commentary / crowd heat / cycle within a building The second one can come into play when the quality of the matches are pretty much the same, but one shooting of it just captures it better. An example might be the Tito-Savage No DQ matches. There might not be a big difference between the MSG one and the Toronto one. But the MSG one fits well into the arc they were telling in the building leading to the tag team cage blow off. The second can be night & day some times. Look at the Savage-Steamboat feud around the tv angle: Pre-Angle matches 11/01/86 Boston: Savage vs. Steamboat (14:18) 11/08/86 Spectrum: Steamboat vs Savage (12:52) I'm leaving out the July match and the one from the prior year. These are the matches when the feud is really starting to shape up. If you're trying to tell the storyline of the feud "before" the angle, these would be the ones. The Boston match is better. It's tighter, more focused. If one watches it and then the Angle Match, you get the sense of "why" Savage snapped: Steamer had his number, not just in the isolation of a shortish TV, but around the horn. On top of that, Randy's off the top move to the floor was getting him beat. So Randy just went batshit. Angle Match 11/22/86 Superstars: Savage vs Steamboat (7:03) (taped 10/28/86) Well of course that's a keeper. To a degree this has a similar start to the Boston match, with Steamer having Macho's number. Then he goes batshit. Revenge Matches 01/10/87 Spectrum: Savage vs Steamboat (6:10) 02/14/87 Spectrum: Savage vs Steamboat (7:42) 02/15/87 MLG: Savage vs Steamboat (13:40) It's worth watching all of these to figure out which might be the best or if there are multiple ones that fit together into telling the story of the feud. The MLG match is great, one of those missing links that helps fill in Angle Match --> Mania with a great match and thematically helps get across Steamer "going back to what was working" at Mania rather than coming out wanting to kill Macho dead. Mania now makes sense... even if it's not exactly what they had in mind when laying it out. The Spectrum matches are worth watching to see if they add anything, especially the first one, in filling the bridge from November to February. If they're not keepers, no skin off anyone's back to at least put the effort into watching them. Pre-Mania Tag-o-Rama 02/23/87 MSG: Piper & Steamboat & JYD vs Savage & Adonis & Race (20:24) This has a lot of stuff going on that leads into Mania: Piper-Adons, JYD-Race and Steamer-Savage. It's also got a really heated crowd. It's not a massive addition to the Steamer-Savage feud, but it is the *one* time in their feud that they played in MSG, and it's a fun little match. Even if one doesn't recommend it, it is worth watching because it's a different iteration. Mania 03/29/87 Mania: Savage vs Steamboat (14:35) Of course. Post Mania Steamboat defense 05/15/87 Houston: Steamboat vs Savage (10:53) Sadly we don't have one of the cage matches, though it's probable that those weren't as epic in the building as they seemed on paper. Though... I seem to recall the Long Island match looked like a bloodbath from Savage in the Apter mags, so that at least would have acted as a "finish" to the feud. The Houston match... it's okay. It's hard for these two to have a dog of a match. But it doesn't really grab me. Again, it's worth watching simply to see if they did have something good/great when the roles were reversed, and if there was another MLG-like missing gem between the two that finally bubble up. In a sense, it's a bit like the Sarge vs Sheik feud. If you're putting a bit of editing together (like in Will & Loss' Yearbook format), you're going to need to cut down the number of matches being kept. But to get there, you really do need to watch them to make a good set of recommendations. In turn, that saves other people from having to sit through all of them if they don't want to. I don't mind people taking the time to watch the 11/08/86 Steamboat vs Savage match from the Spectrum. But if someone is coming to me asking for recommendations, I'd tell them it can be skipped unless they're interested in seeing that they don't always hit the ball for extra bases... but even then have a match with some good stuff in it.

My thoughts on the Hogan-Orndorff matches when going through them several years back: 08/28/86 Hulk Hogan vs Paul Orndorff (11:05) Taped: CNE Stadium, Toronto From: Hulk Hogan The Ultimate Anthology / The Big Event http://www.otherarena.com/phpbb/viewtopic....0327⡗ 09/13/86 Hulk Hogan vs Paul Orndorff (10:18) Taped: Richfield Coliseum, OH From: 10/04/86 SNME http://www.otherarena.com/phpbb/viewtopic....3260㏌ 10/18/86 Hulk Hogan vs Paul Orndorff (11:26) Taped: The Spectrum, Philadelphia, PA From: 10/18/86 PRISM Network http://www.otherarena.com/phpbb/viewtopic....3471㒟 11/24/86 Hulk Hogan & Roddy Piper vs Paul Orndorff & Harley Race (8:16) Taped: Madison Square Garden, New York From: 11/24/86 MSG Network http://www.otherarena.com/phpbb/viewtopic....3261㏍ 12/13/86 Hulk Hogan vs Paul Orndorff (8:07) Taped: The Spectrum, Philadelphia, PA From: 12/13/86 PRISM Network http://www.otherarena.com/phpbb/viewtopic....3472㒠 12/14/86 Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff (10:42) Taped: Hartford Civic Center Aired: 01/03/87 SNME http://www.otherarena.com/phpbb/viewtopic....=4357ᄅ Had not tracked down the first Philly match at the time, and the Houston match is a newer 24/7 release. I love The Big Event match. Would highly recommend it as it better than anything else after the turn captures hot red hot this feud was. They don't quite have their shit down totally perfectly, but given it's a Hogan match, that's not a problem. I like the first SNME match. Perfectly fine, and I don't have a problem with the finish involving Piper and Adonis. Hogan & Piper would be working some how shows together as a team and this was a good angle to get the team across: they'd come to hate the heels a bit more than each other. Pretty needed given their past history. Second Philly match is smartly worked. Good match, and they have their shit down pat by that point. The thing the Philly cage match has over the SNME cage match is a clean finish (i.e. blow off of the feud) and the double juice. That said... I think I liked the SNME match a bit more. The "tie finish" was one of those rare times it kind of work, and made for a decent back up in case Andre dropped dead and couldn't make Mania. If one is recommending stuff, it's always hard to recommend identical matches from a series, especially gimmick ones. From something like the DVDVR WWF-redux, I'd recommend one of the cage matches for the main set, and toss the other on the Extras: neither are long, they're both watchable, there's historic value given the place of the feud in the history of the 80s, and it's useful for folks to see House Show Version vs NBC Version. Probably would say the same thing about the SNME Hogan-Bossman and one of the house show cage matches. John

The Islanders did their last taping in April, and started drifting apart over the next two months by early/mid June. Haku got crowned King in early July. Martel got hurt in early June, and that was it for Strike Force. The Bees were done as a team in late August. Bulldogs were done after Survivor. The Rockets debuted at a taping at the end of May, essentially starting 5/31 and 6/1. Powers of Pain debuted on house shows in early June, first taping was late June and their first TV was mid July. Brain Busters debuted in October. Bushwackers debuted on house shows at the very end of December, which included one MSG. Conquistadors are like me including the Moondogs in 1986, which I avoided though pointed out an argument could be made. That's kind of why I laid out the months when listing the 1986 teams: it's pretty fluid as teams come and go. Anyway, it's pretty much the same range of teams at a given time: about 8-10.

? 5/24/86 Championship Wrestling Dan Spivey & Mike Rotundo defeated Steve Lombardi & Paul Christy at when Spivey pinned Lombardi with a slingshot splash after an airplane spin from Rotundo at 3:56 (Rotundo's return match) 6/7/86 Championship Wrestling Dan Spivey & Mike Rotundo defeated Terry Gibbs & Joe Mirto when Spivey pinned Mirto with a bulldog after the airplane spin from Rotundo at 3:27 6/7/86 All-Star Wrestling Mike Rotundo & Danny Spivey defeated Brian Mackney & Larry Finnegan at 3:29 when Rotundo pinned Mackney with an airplane spin 6/23/86 Primetime Mike Rotundo & Dan Spivey defeated the Moondogs at 11:37 when Rotundo pinned Rex following an airplane spin (6/14/86; Madison Square Garden) 6/28/86 Championship Wrestling Mike Rotundo & Danny Spivey defeated the Gladiator & Tiger Chung Lee at 3:26 when Spivey pinned the Gladiator following a bulldog 6/28/86 All Star Wrestling Mike Rotundo & Danny Spivey defeated John Rizzo & Iron Mike Sharpe at 4:24 when Spivey pinned Rizzo with a bulldog 7/14/86 Primetime Mike Rotundo & Dan Spivey defeated Les Thornton & Tiger Chung Lee at 12:16 when Spivey pinned Thornton with a bulldog (6/27/86; Boston Garden) 7/19/86 Championship Wrestling Mike Rotundo & Danny Spivey defeated Al Navarro & Gino Carabello when Rotundo pinned Navarro following an airplane spin at 2:47 7/26/86 All Star Wrestling Mike Rotundo & Danny Spivey defeated Tiger Chung Lee & Les Thornton at 4:03 when Rotundo pinned Thornton with an airplane spin 8/2/86 Championship Wrestling Mike Rotundo & Danny Spivey defeated Steve Lombardi & Roger Kirby when Rotundo pinned Kirby after an airplane spin at 3:26 8/4/86 Primetime Jimmy Jack & Dory Funk Jr. defeated Mike Rotundo & Danny Spivey at 15:25 when Dory pinned Spivey after Jack hit a clothesline while Spivey attempted the bulldog (7/27/86; Maple Leaf Gardens) 8/16/86 All Star Wrestling Mike Rotundo & Danny Spivey defeated Gino Carabello & Les Thornton at 2:18 when Spivey pinned Carabello with a bulldog 8/30/86 Championship Wrestling Mike Rotundo & Danny Spivey defeated Steve Lombardi & Gino Carabello at 4:35 when Spivey pinned Carabello with a bulldog Yeah... those are two different matches form different tapings. Someone wasn't paying attention in booking them. 9/7/86 Challenge Mike Rotundo & Danny Spivey defeated Don Muraco (w/ Mr. Fuji) & Iron Mike Sharpe when Rotundo pinned Sharpe with a small package at 3:07, which had originally been reversed by Muraco, but then re-reversed by Spivey 9/8/86 Primetime Nikolai Volkoff & the Iron Sheik (w/ Freddie Blassie & Slick) defeated Dan Spivey & Mike Rotundo at 12:46 when Sheik pinned Spivey after Volkoff hit Spivey with Slick's cane as Spivey attempted a powerslam on Sheik; after the bout, Rotundo eventually cleared Sheik, Volkoff, and Slick from the ring; Blassie left ringside prior to the bout beginning (8/25/86; Madison Square Garden) 9/20/86 Superstars Mike Rotundo & Dan Spivey defeated Greg Valentine & Brutus Beefcake (w/ Johnny V) via disqualification at 3:08 when Johnny V broke Rotundo's cover 9/30/86 Primetime Bret Hart & Jim Neidhart fought Dan Spivey & Mike Rotundo to a 20-minute time-limit draw as Neidhart broke Spivey's cover on Bret after Bret sustained a bulldog (9/6/86; Boston Garden) Spivey went out for knee sugery after a 9/20/86 match against the Harts at the Spectrum 17 tv matches to this point since late May. 10/14/86 Primetime Mike Rotundo pinned the Iron Sheik (w/ Slick & Nikolai Volkoff) at 7:17 after Slick accidentally hit Volkoff with his cane; after the bout, all three men attacked Rotundo (9/28/86 MLG) 10/26/86 All American Wrestling Mike Rotundo fought Jim Brunzell to a double count-out (10/20/86 MSG) Rotundo go in two TV matches while Spivey was out. They didn't tape any squashes matches for him while Spivey was out, probably to not confuse people... standard WWF goofiness when someone is expect out short term. The Primetime match at MSG, though, looks like it's to get across the "team": Rotundo has to go it alone against another regular team (probably was booked as a tag before Spivey went out), gets the win, then has his clock cleaned by the heel team. 11/29/86 Superstars Mike Rotundo & Danny Spivey defeated Rick Renslow & Dave Wagner when Spivey pinned Wagner with a bulldog at 2:15 (Spivey’s return from knee surgery) 12/14/86 Challenge Mike Rotundo & Danny Spivey defeated Bob Colt & Steve Lombardi at 2:20 when Spivey pinned Colt with a bulldog 12/16/86 Prime Time Wrestling Danny Spivey pinned Moondog Spot with a bulldog at 9:36 Mike Rotundo pinned Moondog Rex with an airplane spin at 9:34 12/27/86 Superstars Mike Rotundo & Danny Spivey defeated Moondog Spot & Tim Patterson at 1:39 when Rotundo pinned Patterson with the airplane spin 12/28/86 Challenge Adrian Adonis, Bret Hart, & Jim Neidhart (w/ Jimmy Hart) defeated Mike Rotundo, Danny Spivey, & SD Jones at 3:34 when Jones submitted to Adonis' sleeper as the other four men were battling in the ring Four tv tags in little over a month after Spivey comes back, along with the Primetime singles matches to get across the teams. 21 tv tags and three singles that get across the team, and one extra singles match... interestingly enough against another tag team specialist (Brunzell) while Spivey was out. One would suspect given how they were booked on the TV tapings, they're missing probably 2-3 squash matches because Spivey was out. These were their "house show tapings", some of which aired on Primetime and are also listed above: 6/14/86 MSG: Mike Rotundo & Dan Spivey defeated the Moondogs at 11:37 when Rotundo pinned Rex following an airplane spin 6/24/86 Boston: Mike Rotundo & Dan Spivey defeated Les Thornton & Tiger Chung Lee at 12:16 when Spivey pinned Thornton with a bulldog 06/28/86 Spectrum: Dan Spivey & Mike Rotundo defeated Hercules & Tiger Chung Lee at 12:26 when Spivey pinned Lee with a bulldog 7/26/86 Spectrum: Dan Spivey & Mike Rotundo defeated the Moondogs at around the 20-minute mark when Spivey pinned Rex with a crossbody 7/27/86 MLG: Jimmy Jack & Dory Funk Jr. defeated Mike Rotundo & Danny Spivey at 15:25 when Dory pinned Spivey after Jack hit a clothesline while Spivey attempted the bulldog 8/23/86 Spectrum: Greg Valentine & Brutus Beefcake fought Mike Rotundo & Danny Spivey to a time-limit draw at 16:17 8/25/86 MSG: Nikolai Volkoff & the Iron Sheik (w/ Slick) defeated Dan Spivey & Mike Rotundo at 12:46 when Sheik pinned Spivey after Volkoff hit Spivey with Slick's cane as Spivey attempted a powerslam on Sheik; after the bout, Rotundo eventually cleared Sheik, Volkoff, and Slick from the ring; Freddie Blassie helped accompany Volkoff & Sheik ringside before the bout but went backstage before the match began 9/6/86 Boston: Bret Hart & Jim Neidhart fought Dan Spivey & Mike Rotundo to a 20-minute time-limit draw as Neidhart broke Spivey's cover on Bret after Bret sustained a bulldog 9/20/86 Spectrum: Bret Hart & Jim Neidhart defeated Mike Rotundo & Danny Spivey at 11:15 when Neidhart pinned Spivey following a clothesline from Bret as Spivey attempted a running bulldog on Neidhart Spivey went out for the knee surgery after this match. 9/28/86 MLG: Mike Rotundo pinned the Iron Sheik (w/ Slick & Nikolai Volkoff) at 7:17 after Slick accidentally hit Volkoff with his cane; after the bout, all three men attacked Rotundo This aired on the 10/14/86 Primetime. Didn't list it above. 10/20/86 MSG: Mike Rotundo fought Jim Brunzell to a double count-out (10/26/86 All American Wrestling) 11/8/86 Spectrum: Mike Rotundo pinned Iron Mike Sharpe (sub. for King Kong Bundy) at 6:03 with the airplane spin 11/26/86 Summit: Danny Spivey pinned Moondog Spot with a bulldog at 9:36; Mike Rotundo pinned Moondog Rex with an airplane spin at 9:34 (both aired on the 12/16/86 Prime Time Wrestling) 12/6/86 Boston: Jacques & Raymond Rougeau fought Mike Rotundo & Dan Spivey to a double disqualification at 12:01 when all four men began brawling in the ring 12/13/86 Spectrum: Brutus Beefcake (w/ Johnny V) pinned Mike Rotundo with his feet on the ropes at 9:25; Dan Spivey pinned Greg Valentine at 6:28 after Valentine collided with an interfering Brutus Beefcake on the ring apron; Beefcake came ringside mid-way through the bout; after the match, Spivey was double teamed, with Valentine applying the figure-4, until Mike Rotundo made the save; prior to the bout, Johnny V was ordered backstage by the referee after taking a cheap shot on Spivey 10 house show tapings, along with two house shows where they were split into singles matches to face members of another team. Rotundo got booked into three house show taping matches while Spivey was out. 15 house show tapings form May-Dec. They were on TV like other regular tag teams. Mike left in February of the next year. Couple more house show matches against the Dream Team. On TV they were getting paired with Blackjack Mulligan, then it looks like paired around the circuit with Demolition as Spivey teamed Jerry Allen to put them over into March. Anyway, I identified these regular teams: Dream Team (1/86 - 12/86) Bulldogs (1/86 - 12/86) Hart Foundations (1/86 - 12/86) Killer Bees (1/86 - 12/86) Sheik & Volkoff (1/86 - 12/86) Dory Funk Jr. & Terry Funk (1/86 - 3/86) / Jimmy Jack Funk (4/86 - 8/86) Rougeaus (2/86 - 12/86) Rotundo & Spivey (5/86 - 12/86) Islanders (8/86 - 12/86) Muraco & Orton (10/86 - 12/86) For most of the year they had 8 teams, and by Oct-Dec they had 9 of them. I'm leaving out Stud & Bundy since they were largely a team to go against Hogan or Andre. Also leaving out the Machines as they were a team booked with Andre's storyline. I'm not counting the Moondogs since they were the JTTS. On the other hand, they worked in tags on 3 MSG cards (including against the champ Bulldogs), 1 Boston card, 2 Spectrum cards, and had a totally of 7 Primetime matches that went 10+ against other tag teams. I didn't list the Can-Am's above, but they debuted on the 11/15/86 Superstars, which would make it 10 teams by the end of the year. I suspect if I looked at every card there would probably be another team I'm overlooking in there. Was 1988 radically different? Did they have 15 teams at a given time rather than the 10 they closed 1986 with? The first two Survivor series weren't very different, and each either some JTTS teams and/or some slapped together.

Themselves.

It's pretty typical of the WWF to have tag blow offs. The Tito-Savage was blown off in tags. Anyway, the rest of the available feud: Roddy Piper & Bob Orton vs Paul Orndorff & Hulk Hogan, Spectrum 6/29/85 Roddy Piper & Bob Orton vs Paul Orndorff & Andre the Giant, MSG 8/10/85 Roddy Piper & Bob Orton vs Paul Orndorff & Bruno Sammartino, Spectrum 9/28/85 Roddy Piper & Bob Orton vs Paul Orndorff & Bruno Sammartino, Steel Cage Match, Spectrum 10/26/85 Roddy Piper & Bob Orton vs Paul Orndorff & Bruno Sammartino, Boston 1/11/86 My recollection is that the cage match was pretty entertaining. They "roles revered" matches later: Roddy Piper & Hulk Hogan vs Paul Orndorff & Harley Race, MSG 11/24/86 Roddy Piper & Hulk Hogan & Billy Jack Haynes vs Paul Orndorff & Adrian Adonis & Hercules, Boston 3/7/87 Roddy Piper & Hulk Hogan vs Paul Orndorff & Kamala, Spectrum 3/14/87 John

86? Besides the Bees and the Brothers who else was there? The Bulldogs were on top, Sheik and Volkoff were still sorta going, there was the Dream Team. I guess if you counted the Funks, JYD and Santana, and Muraco and Orton, you'd have a number of teams. But not enough for IC Tag titles. Regular teams? Dream Team (1/86 - 12/86) Bulldogs (1/86 - 12/86) Hart Foundations (1/86 - 12/86) Killer Bees (1/86 - 12/86) Sheik & Volkoff (1/86 - 12/86) Dory Funk Jr. & Terry Funk (1/86 - 3/86) / Jimmy Jack Funk (4/86 - 8/86) Rougeaus (2/86 - 12/86) Rotundo & Spivey (5/86 - 12/86) Islanders (8/86 - 12/86) Muraco & Orton (10/86 - 12/86) In a sense, there always were 8 "regular" tag teams going around in the year. That doesn't mean these guys teams together every card, but you'll find Sheik & Volkoff teaming together regularly in January... and in December. Muraco & Orton were a pair of singles slapped together, but they were given a push to title contention: they were going around the horn with the Bulldogs (including a challenge here in LA) that climaxed with DK's injury against them. There also were the Hillbillies and Moondogs. Luke was something of a jobber, but Jim was treated pretty well when healthy. Moondogs were jobbers. There were other jobber teams that I left out. Might be leaving out some other ones, like the Machines (Super & Big & Giant setting aside ones like Hulk Machine). Ayway, 8 regular teams, two having belts and six chasing, along with occasional singles being slapped together like Tito & Steamer or Tito & JYD or heel pairings against face champs... it's pretty easy to book. I also was trying to get across the number of house shows and TV programs: there was enough out there where, with 5 titles (World, IC, TVish, WTT, ICTT) that you weren't going to have a card with 5 titles being defended on it. That also let you spread around the titles for folks to help get pushed, and to have happen in a variety of markets and/or tv programs. The WWF Title wasn't going to change hands all year, the IC just once, and the WTT just once. Two more wouldn't have meant that suddenly the place was Memphis with "history being made" every week via title change-o-rama. John

I think they might have benefited from it in 1986 when they were feuding with the Bees and the Brothers. John

I tend to think that 1985/86 JCP had too many belts. They cleaned it up to a degree by the end of the year, and by early 1987 had: World World Tag US TV US Tag Setting aside the Six-Man Titles, which no one paid too much attention to and were generally treated as "we roll these out every once in a while to show the Roadies and Dusty aren't beltless. Could it be a bit too much if you attended a show with 5 title matches? I guess. But WCW at the height of it's power had: World World Tag US TV Cruiser Ignoring the Hardcore. The WWF had a similar number, and the Hardcore was actually pushed more as a TV prop there than in WCW. Could we call the 3 that the WWF had in the 80s (ignoring the King and Million Dollar Belt) a classical, perfect number? I'm... not... sure. With the massive roster than the WWF had, the number of cards they ran each night, the number of TV shows they aired, and the lack of times titles changed in 1986-87, I wouldn't have minded two more secondary titles. This was the peak of the WWF in terms of "regular tag teams", and it would have been nice to have an IC Tag Title. Also given the dynasties of the World and IC titles in the Expansion Era of the 80s, I wouldn't have minded seeing the equiv of the TV title that some other folks could have bounced around: World Hogan: 01/23/84 - 02/05/88 & 04/02/89 - 04/01/90 Savage: 03/27/88 - 04/02/89 IC Tito: 02/11/84 - 09/24/84 & 07/06/85 - 02/08/86 Savage: 02/08/86 - 03/29/87 HTM: 06/02/87 - 08/29/88 Warrior: 08/29/88 - 04/02/89 & 08/28/89 - 04/01/90 That's two belts across six years, five men. 98% of the World Title held by two men. 78% of the IC held by four men. 88% of the two titles combined. I get that it contributed to them having "meaning". Just don't see how that would have been lessened if there was: #1 - a IC Tag Title that teams like the Bees, Rougues, Islanders, Rockers, Bushwackers, etc could have won... in addition to a team like the Harts prior to 1987 if it looked like they might not win the World Tag title anytime soon. #2 - a TV Title equiv that the likes of Jake, Bossman, JYD, Orndorff, Adonis, Orton, Duggan, Rude, etc could have won or fought over. The roster was really deep.

You right... I saw Demo rather than Rockets. Carry on... John

There is a Demo thread for this stuff. Will seemed to create it to avoid derailing the Shawn topic of the thread.

Cena's divorce was trending #1 on Yahoo, so I had to check it out. John Cena Makes Peace In Divorce War: http://www.tmz.com/2012/07/18/john-cena-divorce-resolution Hard to read between the lines since there's so little there. But she had lawyered up and was going to contest the pre-nup. Since it's getting resolved now in "friendly" fashion, she has to be getting more than the pre-nup. A guess is that Cena went the Tom Cruise route: goes easy to keep out of the public eye the things you want out of the public eye. John

Can someone give a more detailed explanation of what all this is? Or if it's a little discrete, post it in the Technology thread in Trading & Shilling. John

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b-q0cAkboc Regal vs Ambrose

09/08/58 Barbarian 02/03/59 Meng 03/28/62 Warlord Damn... makes me feel old. John

Quite possible. It was on a board that had a lot of WR pics, so I assumed that one was as well.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/2011/0...f-17777596.html http://mx.globedia.com/sunny-dice-amigos-c...uerda-luchadora Bottom picture here: http://wrestlingnewscenter.blogspot.com/20...ll-of-fame.html Some from last year's Wrestlereunion: She wasn't as thin as in her WWF days, but I thought when seeing her walk by in the hallway that she looked vastly better than I could ever have expected if one recalls her pass through of ECW and the indy period after that. I agree with Flik that she doesn't look off the charts bad in the pic. Just really tired, burned out, and puffy compared to the year before. Worrisome, because I thought she'd gotten her shit reasonably together. :/ John

Yeah... not a great photo. I thought she'd looked reasonably well in other semi-recent photos, and look surprising good at last year's WrestleReunion out here in LA. John

I thought she had her shit back together. Was she back in no-show mode?

To be fair: I covered that "it was only a joke" excuse. It's a lame one when lord knows how many kids got abused after JoePa and Penn State buried it in the late 90s... then did dick about it in 2001... and if they'd successfully "bought off" all these kids, Sandusky would still be at it. I'm not going to soap box that no one can tell a Sandusky joke. Just that if the claim is that this *specific* one is a joke, it isn't funny... not in the slightest sense. I'll go back to the point: that's your son or Dave's son... funny? Excusable? Or just dumb fuck nonsense? John

http://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/notices/international.jsp Those are services, which pro wrestling shows would fall under. Video tapes, toys and t-shirts fall are "goods" and fall under various other classes. A key to trademark law is the likelihood of confusion. You can not get a registration that's likely to be confused with an existing one. So filing for "ECW" in the same class as one where one or more already exist, for similar goods or services, is going to get bounced. Filing for a mark where there's a strong one that's in a different class is likely to get bounced as well. Trying to file for iPod in some corner of the list of goods & services for a product that's totally unrelated to Apple's various iPod marks is... going to run into some problems. iPod is such a strong mark in the public that the confusion is that people will think this other product is somehow related, or endorsed by Apple, etc. Some folks try to be cute, but if you go up against something strong enough, you're going to get slapped. In this case, the WWE has ECW / Extreme Championship Wrestling registrations. A pretty fair number of them. They continue to use the mark: ECW episodes and PPV are on their web and 24/7 (or whatever it's called now). They sell video tapes. Etc. They may not put on actually ECW wrestling events, but they use the mark a great deal for wrestling related goods and services. Really shouldn't be that hard to smack own. In fact, it's quite likely that the Examining Attorney at the USPTO will smack it down with an Office Action, and this dumb fuck won't be able to respond to it in a satisfactory way... and it will die that way. John

Dave is naive to think that major college football programs haven't been paying folks off to make things go away for... well... fuck it... Dave's Entire Life! My dad went to the same college as Dave, got the same degree, wrote for the same school paper covering the same shit: sports. He just happened to do it before Dave was even born. And he's told me stories about the athletic department "making shit go away", be it players drinking and driving, players knocking women up, players assaulting fellow students, and "worse stuff". Athletic departments know how to deal with scummy shit. On the other hand, this is pretty offensive: "Paterno's problem is that his people didn't pay the kids off first to disappear." If I'm reading that right, Dave is saying that JoePa's problem is not paying off parents and kids to shut up about Sandusky molesting them. Dave... are you trying to say that if JoePa came to you and your wife with cash because Sandusky was fucking your son up the ass that you would take the payoff? Or would you do what that brave kid, his brave mother, and his brave supporters at his school did and take it to the cops, and fight every step of the way against someone potentially trying to make it go away? JoePa's problem was that a boy, his mother and good support people stood the fuck up. It's offensive to even joke about JoePa making a mistake in not buying them off. Just shut the fuck up and go back to talking about pro wrestling and UFC. If you want to talk about this one, just keep in the *front* of your mind that it could be your son taking that... and bring up that image into your mind before writing anything. For fuck's sake... John