Dylan Waco

My area too Kris A part of me thinks he was a more interesting wrestler to watch in the 70's.

Well technically ALL of them could be questioned, but there is no one on that list I could see anyone convincing me was a worse brawler than Brody. Duggan absolutely decimates Brody. Mid-South run is great and even if you want to argue that his WWF run should drag him down, comparing worst to worst I don't see anyway Brody could possibly win.

Ole is a great promo, but he absolutely sucks in the ring.

Dave still defends him as a worker or so I'm told. The majority of the Classics guys do when he is brought up.

Christ I agree with everyone Bix listed that I didn't which has to put the number near 120...again with little effort

Oh come on this isn't even hard. I'm watching my wife wrap last second gifts while my brother laughs his ass off at National Lampoon and I'm still positive I can rattle off a hundred with little effort 1. Terry Funk 2. Stan Hansen 3. Dick Murdoch 4. Sgt. Slaughter 5. Jerry Blackwell 6. Terry Gordy 7. Kevon Von Erich 8. Buzz Sawyer 9. Tommy Rich 10. Bill Dundee 11. Jerry Lawler 12. Dutch Mantell 13. The Moondogs 14. The Nasty Boys 15. Ted Dibiase 16. Wahoo McDaniel 17. Nick Bockwinkel 18. Jim Duggan 19. Eddie Guerrero 20. William Regal 21. Fit Finlay 22. Necro Butcher 23. Mick Foley 24. Buddy Rose 25. Randy Savage 26. Abdullah The Butcher 27. Chris Benoit 28. Ron Garvin 29. Greg Valentine 30. Roddy Piper 31. Satanico 32. Black Terry 33. LA Park 34. Manny Fernandez 35. Ricky Morton 36. One Man Gang 37. Tully Blanchard 38. Magnum T.A. 39. Barry Windham 40. Ric Flair 41. The Fabulous Ones 42. Mr. Saito 43. Arn Anderson 44. Butch Reed 45. Vader 46. Dirty White Boy 47. Tracy Smothers 48. Jimmy Golden 49. Dustin Rhodes 50. Dusty Rhodes 51. Dennis Condrey 52. Eric Embry 53. Bully Ray 54. Spike Dudley 55. Tajiri 56. Steve Corino 57. The Sandman 58. Steve Austin 59. Brian Pillman 60. Eddie Gilbert 61. Paul Orndorff 62. Big Bossman 63. Phil Hickerson 64. El Dandy 65. Sangre Chicana 66. Negro Casas 67. Villano IV 68. Emilo Charles Jr 69. Samoa Joe 70. MS-1 71. Hulk Hogan 72. Dr. Cerebro 73. CM Punk 74. Adrian Adonis 75. Tito Santana 76. Homicide 77. Bull Pain 78. Luke Gallows 79. The Undertaker 80. Harley Race 81. Bobby Jaggers 82. Bobby Eaton 83. Wing Kanemura 84. Tommy Rogers 85. Damien Wayne 86. Sami Callihan 87. Michael Hayes 88. The Heavenly Bodies 89. Fidel Sierra 90. Savio Vega/TNT 91. Eddie Kingston 92. Genchiro Tenryu 93. Kerry Von Erich 94. Chico Che 95. The Iron Sheik 96. Chicky Starr 97. Carlos Colon 98. Ken Patera 99. Killer Khan 100. Bob Orton That's pretty off the cuff and with little thought but I'm absolutely sure all of them are considerably better brawlers than Brody.

Brody is someone I want to like but can't. He's just not any good. For guys known as crazy brawlers I can't think of a single guy offhand I would rate him ahead of. He works so fucking loose it's unbelievable, won't bump, won't sell and while he has some good offense it's not nearly enough to offset the myriad of shit you are bombarded with in most of his matches.

I think Brody is terrible, but if people like him that's fine. Having said that I am not sure what you mean by mat wrestling. I've watched a lot of Brody over the years and don't recall him being an adept mat worker by any standard. Just watch a lot of his Japan stuuf and matches with Ric Flair in St. Louis. If you don't think he is an adept mat wrestler then I don't know what to tell you. I loved Brody in the 80's and still love him now. If you don't like Brody that's fine but to say he was terrible is a huge stretch of anyones imagination. I have saw too many good matches from him to even entertain any viewpint that he was terrible. His peers seem to hold his work in high regard. The one issue that some of his peers have with him was his atttitude at times. In a time when a lot of guys with heavily muscled bodies came on the scene, Brody was a big guy with great athleticism and had charisma that stood out unlike some of the muscle guys that came on the scene in the 80's. As it happens I just watched the Flair/Brody matches from St. Louis within the last couple of weeks. I actually don't hate the broadway, though I don't think it's a particularly interesting match and Brody doesn't do much in the way of matwork. Brody was easier to hide in tags and he was in some pretty good matches though I don't think I've ever seen a Brody match where I thought he was the best guy in the match. I'm actually a moderate on Brody relative to some on this board. I think he was terrible for any number of reasons (near refusal to bump or show any vulnerability ever, poor/inconsistent selling, horribly weak looking strikes for a guy who was supposedly a great brawler, low energy in the ring for a guy put over as a madman, et), but I'm not as down on him as goodhelmet. Possibly not as down on him as jdw either.

I think Brody is terrible, but if people like him that's fine. Having said that I am not sure what you mean by mat wrestling. I've watched a lot of Brody over the years and don't recall him being an adept mat worker by any standard.

???? Alex Wright was like 6'2 - 6'3 Yeah I always thought Wright looked to BIG to be a cruiser. Sure he was really lean and maybe that's the point. But the guy towered over most people in that division. I was never a Wright fan then and I'm still not now, but the guy was one of the bright spots in WCW in 95 in terms of delivering pretty solid matches.

Brian Knobbs is Ric Flair next to Vampiro

On Taylor I agree that he was better as a heel, but I can't think of anything he's ever been involved in that drew me in on any level. Brad Armstrong is a guy that often got branded as a good hand who was hurt by being bland, but Brad seemed like The Rock next to Taylor. Maybe I'm watching the wrong matches.

Good topic. I have participated with New Japan, All Japan, Texas and obviously AWA where I was on the committee. I have and have seen virtually all of Memphis. Still haven't gotten Mid-South or Other Japan, though I really should. In order: 1. New Japan - maybe it's because it was the first one I was involved with, but it really blew me away watching it. I think it had more variety than any other set, more guys that were discovered/rediscovered, lots of interesting/unique novelty matches, and the absolute best stuff is the best of the high end stuff on any of the sets. Hoshino, Fujiwara, Fujinami, Choshu, Sakaguchi being shockingly good, Killer Khan, Saito, Kimura, et. 2. AWA - I'm biased because I was on the committee and of course I'm the guy working the "Jerry Blackwell's biggest fan" gimmick, but this was a set I really enjoyed watching all the footage for - and if anything I enjoyed most things even more on rewatch. The randomness is something I consider a plus and being able to see the greatness of Bock, Blackwell and Hennig unfold really is cool to watch. I also think the top stuff on this set is WAY better than I expected coming in, which helps. Oh and the Rose/Somers v. Midnight Rockers feud is awesome. 3. Memphis - On some level I like Memphis better than the AWA, but A. the AWA is my baby and B. Memphis is something I've been pimping for years and years. This was the ultimate confirmation set as it could confirmed all the things I already believed, with guys who I really enjoy watching. 4. All Japan - Lots of great matches, but what hurts this relative to the three above is the lack of surprises and the fact that it was a set that felt every bit as long as it was. Still awesome, but this is the set I'm least likely to go back and watch a lot of outside of the top handful of matches. 5. Texas - Enjoyable set, with some stuff like the Embry run, Michael Hayes and Chris Adams having the quasi-revisionist flare that I enjoy. But there were more matches I was indifferent to than on any other set and I think this had by far the fewest high end matches.

Man I think that Eddie match is overrated as fuck. I'm not saying it's a bad match, but it sort of reminds me of the Bret match from Souled Out 98 in that it's two guys who are all time greats and it goes pretty long so you expect it to be something special and while it's not bad it's just really there. Maybe I should watch it again

I would argue yes. As I've said before Buddy didn't even have a "Dundee" to him as Lawler. No one even close.

Dylan and I had a pone conversation maybe a year back where we actually talked on the phone for an hour and went year by year for Eddie Guerrero, Rey Mysterio and I think Buddy Rose. We also did it for the family killer to get beyond the idea he was as good as Rey and Eddie in those years. That should have been taped for a podcast. In any event Buddy is one of those guys who I think had a long peak, though it's not viewed as long. By that I mean that he was at the top of his game/best in the world level guy for about as long as we can document with Flair. It's just he was doing it in Portland

Terry Taylor is a good pick. He sucked.

Case in point: there are people who really like him. Not just the old Bingo Hall Circle Jerkers, but more recent people like Jerome and Dylan who've rewatch a shitload of ECW more recently and with much more historical perspective than the BHCJ's. I still dislike him, and can't go long into any of his matches without getting annoyed by what he spawned. I'm really not that high on Sabu. He did have a lot of matches in ECW that I really enjoyed, but there were plenty that felt flat, underachieved or stuck to the stereotype 100 percent. He is a guy that due to his image/persona was "fun" in novelty matches v. guys like One Man Gang or Billy Black. He also had some really good matches with Scorp and Mikey, but eveyone on the roster had really good matches with those guys. Even within the realm of ECW there is no way he would make my personal top five and quite possibly not my top ten either.

Much more compelling conversation that this is not true. Depends on how you define "his generation."

I'm seriously surprised we have multiple people touting Flair in 95 and 96. I want to know what these matches are, because I am more than willing to watch them to see if I'm dead wrong in putting 94 as his last "top" year.

What matches did he have in 95 or 96 that were at that level? I'm not saying they don't exist, but I can't think of any and that triangle match wasn't even good the last time I watched it, let alone as good as Steamboat v. Flair even in 94. I put no stock at all in awards like that when talking about in ring ability for a variety of reasons. If we are giving points to Flair through 96, there are a lot of other guys we will be giving charity points for longevity as workers. Some good matches, not on the level of his best stuff, but still a guy you could reasonably argue was one of the top level guys in the States.

I'm not sure I ever thought Misawa was the best in the world, though he was close for as long as Flair was close. As far as the worldwide standard of work being higher...I don't know about that. Coming out of tape trader/newsletter culture that was the talking point that was sold for years, but the 80's sets and the footage explosion has shown me that the general level was a lot higher than our previous assumptions indicated.

What great matches does Flair have in 95 and 96? 89 was the last year where he was at an all time great level and felt like the epitome of a champion which I think was Loss point. 94 was the final go around of the Steamboat feud with several good matches and some stuff with Hogan that was actually pretty good. I think it's the last year where you could point to Flair having a quality in ring year that someone could feasibly rate near the top of the pack in the States (I wouldn't have him terribly high, but I could see an argument). 95....what is there? I enjoy some Flair stuff in 95, but even in a terrible down year for WCW I'm not sure he was even a top five guy IN THAT COMPANY that year. He wouldn't make my top ten for the States - possibly/probably not even my top twenty. No way he was a top tier guy in 96 even with the Savage feud that produced some fun enough matches as I recall. I don't think Flair was terrible during that period. He was decent enough and the hard collapse didn't come until later. But he wasn't close to a top level guy and I can't imagine anyone really watching him those yeas and thinking he was great.

I think Jumbo and Tenryu brought out the best in each other as a rule.

Generally speaking when people are talking about GOAT around here they are talking in ring. You can say "well I think you have to count X, Y and Z that aren't related to in ring" and that's fine, but it's a different conversation than the one that is being had. Also while I would generally agree that he's "in the conversation" in all of those categories, but I think saying "he's going to be top five minimum" is a stretch.