Dylan Waco

I know. I only mention it because Dave claimed in a recent write up to be actively pursuing info on him. But after reading what he wrote, I think it's more a case of "we need to know more," than "DeGlane is going in." I assume the other person John is referring to is Ray Fabiani who should definitely get in and will probably be fiat'ed eventually

And Roode/Storm had an insane brawl where they stiffed the fuck out of each other, Storm hit an epic blade job and Bobby Roode of all people took multiple full impact thumbtack bumps

So I decided to subscribe to the WON today and reading Dave's HoF piece on people who have gotten 50% or more and there eventual fate on the ballot it really strikes me how much I disagree with Dave. The stuff on Hamada is really puzzling to interpret, his claim that Michaels drawing power was a positive when he went in is very hard to defend (which he well knows), his statement that Puerto Rico doesn't really fit with U.S. wrestling in the Colon section seems really odd, the argument about Sak being a good pick when he was voted in, but not so much now....it's just....odd stuff. I don't even mean this to come across as an attack but I was wondering if anyone else read it and thought it came across as as strangely as I did.

I kind of figured they were either building to Brock taking out Ryback or Brock turning on Punk and taking him out costing him the title and possibly building to Punk over Lesnar at Mania

Lack of near falls is a plus if anything.

On the HoF John's talk leads me to believe Sonnenberg is getting in via fiat, and something Dave wrote in a previous update makes me think DeGlane might too. I don't think Edge gets in this year and hope he never does though it would give me an opportunity for a fun "Dylan does listzzzz" thread. I think Panther might get in this year, which is something I support, though in reading stuff and talking to people over the last month, he strikes me as the four or fifth best Luchadore on the ballot.

How was it less than good?

Trying to figure out where I would peg it for the year is tough. I think it's fair to call it a MOTYC from Japan. I think I liked Finlay v. Tajiri better, but I'm a big mark for both of those guys. Funaki v. Akiyama was fucking awesome, but way too short to be a legit contender. I like the fat man v. muscleheads tag from early in the year, but that's more of a really well worked novelty than anything else. I still need to see Funaki v. Suwama and that Tanahashi v. Okada match I've been avoiding mainly because I want to get some distance from the hype. Over all? From Lucha you've got Casas v. Panther and Sombra, the two Terry v. Che matches, Blanco/Solitario v. Santo/Villano IV. I like both of the Calihan v. Finlay matches better, I thought Cena/Punk and Cena/Brock were easily better, I think Bryan/Punk and Sheamus/Punk are better matches, and there several others that are not noticeably ahead of or behind it one way or the other. I could see it making my top twenty at the top of the year if I were in the right mood, but the key difference between that match and everyone of the above matches is that all of the above matches feature very good or great performances by more than one party.

As an indirect comment to this post even if you dislike Tanahashi you should watch the match as it is a great departure from his standard high spot and near fall driven match favouring more selling and such like. Minoru Suzuki puts on both a strong and amusing showing. His facials are great here: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xu7mv8_hi...zuki-njpw_sport Thanks for the link. I enjoyed the match. In fact I liked it a lot more than I thought I would. Having said that, at no point during the match did I think "this is an all time classic," nor did I think it was even close to the best match I've seen this year. That might change some if I saw it on a less choppy platform (DM is not ideal). I thought Suzuki was really great in the match for the most part, though you perhaps could argue his post-figure four selling was weaker than it should have been. Still his facial expressions were really incredible throughout and his arm attacks were really good as was the stuff built around the sleeper. Tanahashi was just a warm body from my perspective. I really don't think he added anything of note to the match at all. That's not to say he was bad because he wasn't. His selling of the arm early was okay, but he lacks the sort of big time emoting that you want out of a guy in his position. He hit his stuff well enough and was a good pin cushion for Suzuki's attacks, but I don't think he was uniquely good or interesting. The splash combo toward the end might have been his biggest contribution to the match. Anyhow it was a good match. Suzuki was great in it. But I don't think it's even close to an all time classic.

So good we plugged it twice

Wrestling Culture Podcast 28: http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkC...2658&cmd=tc This time me and Dave Musgrave enjoyed the company of Tim Livingston. We do not discuss Tim's high tech job and instead focus on the glorious world of pro wrestling, particularly matches we love so much we have watched them 70 kabillion times. Listen as we mock young Timothy, before he hits the KO blow with a discussion of the best match he ever saw live. Good times, Mike Enos talk, give it a listen.

The whole final segment was awesome and insane. I am going to subscribe to the WON for the sole purpose of voting Vince's slip n slide table tope suicidia as move of the year. Probably my favorite segment on Raw in a year or longer

Sheamus current character is embarrassingly awful, but the guy has been good in the ring for a long time now.

Otunga has the offense of Stan Hansen next to Kingston.

Finished the top 25. A few quick things: Hogan finished second which is fair enough and JYD finished in the top 25 but man their bios were not inspiring at all. JYD's was by far the briefest of his section (the Austin bio in the top twenty section may have been shorter) and was as critical as it was favorable. The Hogan bio was meaty enough, but really came across like someone begrudgingly giving credit to someone they didn't care for. It's kind of offset by placing him where they placed him, and we all know his history, but it would have been nice to have something more befitting the guy who was ranked the 2nd best/biggest "hero/icon." The Rocca and Carpentier bios were also fairly critical, but they seemed more complete and were very interesting reads. The Wahoo bio was also a fun read. Including Steve Casey and Bob Ellis in the top twenty was interesting. In the case of Casey the case they made was interesting and it was a very insightful piece about a figure I knew little about. I don't buy him as a top twenty guy, but it really was a solid enough attempt to class him at that level. The Ellis piece? Not so much. Lots of talk about his blading technique and toupee in a short bio that was light on career info. Just seems odd to make a controversial pick like that and do little to justify it. The Mil Mascaras bio had some criticism in it, but was almost immediately offset by a variety of quotes from guys putting Mascaras over as a misunderstood talent. It is also by far the lengthiest bio in that section. For whatever reason they seemed to play up Mascaras hard and actually went into some of his Mexican fame which is odd since they don't rate international figures. Almost seems like they expected criticism having him in the upper tier and went heavy on the bio for that reason. The Joe Savoldi bio was really interesting and makes me which there was a full length bio of his life available.

Coming to TNA - the return of Naked Mideon?

My favorite part of that pic is Carlos Colon - looking better than Flair frankly - appearing to be half asleep in the background

Who is taking that for granted? Back then I saw WCW a dozen or more times a year without traveling more than an hour and a half from my home.

So they hyped two national things and a local thing directly tied to their home market.

He was, but that's hardly a disqualifier for this book.

The Bees worked heel? How do I not remember that. I know Brody was a star attraction as a babyface here and there, but it feels really forced to include him on this list. Maybe a better way of putting this is "did he ever have a babyface RUN of note?"

So I got my copy of this today and it is a MASSIVE book. It's going to take me a while to get through it but I have enjoyed all of the other books in the Hall of Fame series to one degree or another and this looks like a very impressive effort. I'll probably use this thread to keep track of my notes/comments as I'm reading rather than doing a big write up when I'm finished. Quick notables so far: The introduction is quite good in terms of establishing what a babyface/good guy is and establishing context for the book. I marked out for the Lanny Poffo quote about his match with Terry Funk at the Garden which is one of my all time favorite matches and I also thought there were some other interesting points made about the evolution of babyfaces and the different forms of selling ("registering," "selling," and "dying"). There is a really odd reference to Gus Sonnenberg, where he is sort of tossed into the pile with Wayne Munn as a failed experiment. That's not true at all as Gus was a draw of note and a game changing wrestler. It may just be me misreading the intent as it is used as a bridge to the discussion of Londos, but still it rubbed me the wrong way. I'll address the top twenty later, but Londos being first is pretty ballsy, but also entirely defensible in my view, even if I likely would have gone another direction. Bret Hart being as high or higher on this list than he was on the Canadians list is hilarious. Notable/Surprising Inclusions: Leo Burke (yay Musgrave!) Bruiser Brody (not really surprising, but even as "anti-hero" this feels like a huge stretch - where was he cast in a serious position as a babyface of note for any length of time?) Bob Armstrong (maybe not terribly surprising, but I look forward to his bio) Rufus Jones (Mooneyham pick) Notable Omissions: Jim Brunzell (arguably doesn't really "deserve" to make a list limited in scope, but is one of the only guys I can think of who never worked heel and had a record as a very strong face in the AWA and MACW) Ricky Morton (in my view a silly omission, though I'm sure the argument is that the book excludes tag teams who are already covered. Still a guy who has a case for being the best overall in ring babyface should be on the list somewhere.) Dino Bravo (Laugh if you want but they have a section for ethnic babyfaces that includes a couple of guys who are lateral picks, maybe lesser picks depending on what you are emphasizing) Rey Mysterio (the one exclusion that I think is absolutely inexcusable. Along with Morton has an argument for being the best in ring babyface of all time and has influence, international stardom, impact and drawing power all as positives. In my view - particularly given the fact that they don't include Japanese/Mexican/European wrestlers in the equation - Rey is a top twenty pick. To leave him out altogether is absurd)

Kind of a random question, but how good a candidate would Sangre Chicana be?

Does anyone know where I can find Jose's Gordy List on Atlantis?

Are you forgetting the great Worldwide superstar Doc Dean?