Dylan Waco

In the broader context it was fucking idiotic to sign a guy to such a huge contract when there are only a few guys you could reasonably work him against from a perception perspective. A part of me wishes they had booked him in a dominant win against Punk first only to see how net fans would have reacted to their boy getting steamrolled. Realistically the only full timers Brock can work are Cena, Punk, Orton and maybe Sheamus. Everything else feels like a massive stretch for one reason or the other. Of those four one guy is not totally established due to idiot booking, the other is a shit draw particularly as a face, Punk is in theory the champ they are trying to build as a potential long term ace all be it in a backhanded way...and then there is Cena. Henry would have been a GREAT first ppv opponent for Brock before they cut his balls off as it would have meant a lot to convincingly beat him and would not have been giving away one of the bigger "name" match ups out the gate. Given the obvious problems with signing a guy like Brock to such a huge contract in the first place I'm just thankful I got one awesome match out of it

This from a guy who thinks Savage v. Hogan at Mania was high end shit? I'd be hard pressed to think of a match with a less satisfying and more epic "fuck everything that previously happened to hell" finish. One can easily argue that Brock shouldn't have lost his first match, but the finish of the match in the context in which the match actually existed made FAR more sense than Brock reversing something into an F5. I admit that Brock v. Zack Gowen was a memorable match because of the visual imagery, but I can't see any good reason for Brock v. Cena to be a repeat of that unless you just have a visceral hatred for Cena and the potentially sado-sexual imagery of such a finish appeals to your inner perv. I get why people think Brock should have won and I get why that would hurt peoples enjoyment of the match. But Cena getting buried in an epic squash with no comeback at the end would not have been a better match.

One could argue that it may have made more sense to wait on Brock v. Cena for Summerslam, but I think you have to be pretty deluded to think that would have done a uniquely glorious buyrate in today's ppv landscape, with the crop of WWE writers being who they are. I suppose it's possible the show might have done slightly better than average, but the notion that Brock by a miracle from god would became one of the great draws in wrestling history out of the blue if only they had held off for a few months on the match is..well..acid is an interesting drug. Lesnar was never worth that money for a variety of reasons (too high risk, only a VERY limited of guys on the roster he can believably work, no real record as a wrestling draw, et).

Working on the finishing touches of the AWA Set now (actually I'm done watching stuff and things look to be shaping up for a match list in the VERY near future). Hogan was a hell of a lot of fun there. My favorite match of his from the AWA is The Super Sunday match with Bock from 4/24/83. It MIGHT be the best match of his career - at minimum it's in the discussion: This had the feel of a true heavyweight, clash of the titans match and was worked that way. Both guys appeared to be firing on all cylinders and were throwing desperation bombs . Really loved Hogan in this as he was straddling the fence nicely between vulnerable babyface and monster babyface. Also his big offense looked really good, especially his elbow drop and powerslam which got a really great nearfall. Hogan missing the leg drop was a great spot and Bock responding by throwing these last ditch effort blows that looked like they were being tossed out to balance himself as much as they were to inflict damage was really great. Cool sequence as Bock chops down Hogan but then goes for a slam and just collapses with Hogan getting a great nearfall. Hogan has Bock really and hits another strong elbow drop for a really slow counted nearfall with Hogan given an awesome "fuck you" look to the ref as he circles out of the way. Hogan charges the corner but Bock moves and Bock locks on admittedly sloppy sleeper. Normally the sloppiness of this sleeper would piss me off but here it works as it comes across as the desperate attempt of a defeated man to put away an unbeatable giant. Bock gets slung over the top onto the ref to break it but goes back to it again, this time the ref gets squashed in the corner. Bock goes for another attempt but Hogan leans forward sending him over the top to the floor. Hogan brings him in and hits a suplex and then the leg drop for what should have been the most important title change in AWA history. Instead they do the screwjob Dusty finish with Blackburn reversing the decision because Hogan had thrown Bock over the top. This is a famous and very good match.

I agree with John. Budro had the goods and could have been a very successful regional star, but the day of the regional star was damn near dead by the time Buddy came onto the scene. I suspect had Southeastern stayed viable he could have been a huge star there. He certainly had the goods as a worker and on the mic and had a natural tie with the territory.

I like Rock too. Still kind of at a loss as to how Cena v. Rock wasn't modern WWE style. If anything I thought it was closer to modern WWE style than the Punk/Cena match that bored you. I really wanted to like Rock v. Cena. Didn't hate it but the spot calling on camera was pretty god damned embarrassing, the match lacked flow, and Rocky was clearly gassed about four or five minutes in. Okay match, but even a Rock AND Cena mark like me has trouble finding enough quality in it to call it a truly good match.

My dad bought at least one entirely because of Brock fighting and his wrestling card. So did a couple of my work friends. And at least three guys I go to the sports bar with.

This will sound like a troll, but I'm not sure Cena v. Rock makes my top hundred Cena matches and I didn't hate it.

Bossman/Hogan matches were very strong and among my favorite Hogan matches. I am partial to the Bock matches for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is the fact that I am finishing up the AWA Set with Will and Kris this week so they are on my mind. I do agree with Sean about some of the Savage house show matches though. Honestly picking a Hogan top five would be tough for me because while there are a lot of Hogan matches I really like there are few that I would even consider putting into a wrestling canon if we are looking at work alone. Actually the Backlund match from Philly in 1980 is pretty close to that top tier of Hogan matches and that's not something I've seen mentioned (I think it's his best match as a heel). I'm also don't think I would rate it very well next to Cena's top matches.

Man I do not like Mania V at all because fuck the finish to hell. I don't agree with your first paragraph. The logical extension of that argument is "abolish message boards and internalize all thoughts."

I think only delusional people ever thought Brock was going to pop a substantial buyrate. I made that point on multiple podcast and posts on various forums because it seemed obvious the real stupidity was in giving the guy that kind of money in the first place when he is not a proven wrestling draw and there was zero reason to believe he would raw MMA loyalist to a phony "sport" they generally loathe

The match is a tremendous underdog v. monster match, with multiple great visuals, double juice which is a true rarity in this day and age, a totally unique feel with stiff/nasty shots that blurred the line between fact and fiction, a couple of really wild bumps, great selling and a finish that (regardless of whether or not you felt it was ill advised) was believable and fit the matches story. I know some aren't enamored with it, but I thought it was transcendental great on first watch and the second watch only enhanced that feeling.

There is a lot more I would like to and will add to this eventually, but the Rude comparison is really a shitty one because Rude was getting the desired response in front of record low attendance. I love Rude in 92 - literally one of my favorite years any U.S. based wrestler ever had. But he obviously WASN'T doing his job as the companies top heel if that job is to make money. Hell Rude was less effective in that role where it matters (making money) than Cornette was in the same geographical area, at the same time, with a much smaller budget and working only as a semi-trained in ring performer. Is SMW Cornette better than WCW Rude? Using the Jerry metrics I see little argument for Rude. I also think it's wrong to say Cena wasn't even Warrior - look at the gates and staying power. Cena was and is a lot more than Warrior

What?

I too am pretty high on Hogan, certainly much higher than the average smart fan was when I started traveling in those circles in the early 90's. I also think the AWA Set is going to further give people an opportunity to see Hogan working with his strengths (and quality opponents) to deliver exciting matches, a few of which even tread into "great" territory. I would have zero problem with someone who ranked Hogan above Cena, but ultimately I just don't see an argument for him that I find persuasive. People have pointed to the advantages Cena has of multiple ppv opportunities a year, but Cena also has a massive booking disadvantage to the point where it totally offsets any issues that come up related to volume of good matches. I think if you look at the best from each guy Cena is pretty clearly better and I don't buy that it was a result of superior opponents either. I have seen Hogan in good matches with guys I am indifferent to or think of as pretty poor workers. I have never seen him take half trained nothings like Lashley or Khali and have borderline great matches with them. I have never seen the sort of versatility out of Hogan that Cena has showed working guys as different as Jericho or RVD or Michaels or Umaga in different ways. I will say that I think Hogan was actually at his best when he worked guys who would challenge him and make him react a bit more on his feet. I'm thinking of guys like Savage, Orndorff or Bockwinkel. Meanwhile I think Cena is better when booked against monsters where he can work his underdog gimmick in a more believable way and take advantage of his visual selling tactics which I think are among the best in the history of wrestling (before someone steps in here Yeah I hated the Survivor Series finish from a few years ago too, but that was the exception not the rule). That's not to say both guys can't do the other thing, but Cena is better at "babyface overcoming the odds" even if it's a narrative we've all grown to loathe, while Hogan is better at more give and take style matches where the heat comes from a different context (outside interference, cheap shot tactic, et). I get the criticism of Cena's execution, but I ultimately don't care about it because execution is only something that really hurts someone in my eyes when it is a horrible botch, doesn't make contact at all or is undersold/buried by the guy receiving the impact (and/or announcer). Even still I don't see Hogan as a guy who would have a clear advantage in "execution" or "impact" anyhow. I would take Cena over Hogan for a variety of reasons - more quality matches against more diverse pool of opponents working different settings/styles, better at selling/bumping, better peak year(s), best matches and performances are better, more instances where I felt he was the equal or better wrestler in a legitimately good or great match, et. But I wouldn't knock anyone for taking Hogan

I have all of it on tape, but I'd have to dig for it. I'll have some free time soon to search I'll see what I can find

Do you guys have the Michaels TWA fed or do I need to go digging through tapes to send to Will? At minimum one of the Spanky v. AmDrag matches should make this set and I'd argue for Diamond v. Michaels (and possibly Diamond v. Wolfie D) too. I assume the semi-famous Daniels v. Mike Modest match from APW will make it. Pretty sure that was in Jan or Feb of 99. APW should have at least a few other matches of note from 99 but I'll be damned if I can remember anything in particular

Brodus was also really good as Del Rio's second and even sold/bumped fairly well at that point. This incarnation is easily the worst of the three since he's been around. On Show's punch I'm actually fairly shocked anyone thinks it looks bad. If someone says "I don't buy the punch as a finisher" well okay I won't argue even though I disagree. But the punch has consistently looked good.

I love the idea of Todd finding out about the hours change and immediately sending in his resignation

Landell is an East TN guy (Knoxville) and the rumor is that he burned bridges in Memphis which is why he didn't go to the USWA after the ankle injury heeled. Budro had a very strong run in Memphis earlier that shouldn't be undersold

The reason it didn't close out the show is because Cena is still the face of the company and will be until he retires/gets injured/takes time off. Cena has now slipped into the mode of a sort of "super fight" guy who doesn't have the title, doesn't need it and almost doesn't even want it. He's like a cross of attitude era Austin and post-Warrior loss Hogan. There is nothing else fun they can do with him in the role of company ace with the belt, so he is now quasi-company ace without the belt. It's a role that has value short term, but little value long term and ultimately undermines everyone else on the card

I'm going to watch it again tomorrow which I always do with matches like this. I don't think his selling was bad, I just thought there was a lot of signature offense that involved leaping/kicking/using the knee/et after the leg work. Again it's not a match killer, but it's the reason on first watch I have it a bit lower than the top two matches from the last ppv

I didn't either, let alone Cena/Lesnar Still a sweet match, but I would have preferred Bryan sell the leg more at points and the spot calling was really egregious. Relatively minor quibble for a strong match though

Jericho and Orton are the two most channel changing guys the WWE has had at the main event level in a long time from my perspective