sek69

Yes, I did post more about it on Cageside Seats. It clearly supposed to be a positive review but the ROH fans in the comments and at the ROH forum (where the thread was locked) don't seem to understand that. Wrestling fans upset at someone pointing out the obvious homoerotic undertones? Shocking news.

Basically that guy was a local nobody indy wrestler who worked one of the main newspapers into believing he was a big star in the WWF and WCW (and New Japan as well). Pretty much the only thing true about the story is that the guy is from Pittsburgh. Fun Fact: one of my best friends had a friend-of-a-friend who knew this guy, my friend insisted for like a month I had to know him because he knew I was a wrestling fan.

Two things struck me reading that Kevin bit: 1. Anything, no matter how bigoted, sounds hilarious when you picture Kevin's voice saying it. 2. The image of Kevin waiting for hours in the airport was like the saddest thing ever. In my mind they were playing the sad walking away music from the Incredible Hulk tv show while Kevin walked slowly away.

The last thing the WWF wanted was to have another lawsuit involving the sex scandals, that's why they were buying everyone off left and right to avoid any of them making it to court.

When it comes to Patterson, I always felt Dave kind of held back on him and I can only come to one of three conclusions: 1. Dave didn't want to be seen as furthering the gay=pedo stereotype. 2. Pat was somehow a source and Dave didn't want to burn any bridges (unlikely). 3. They were bros and he didn't want to have his friend's rep sullied in any way (like how he goes apeshit when someone suggests Pillman was anything less than perfect).

In my experience, people generally only want to be told things they want to hear and tend to get really upset if you tell them anything else.

It's also been somewhat established that a large amount of the "I nearly got killed by crazy fans upset by my heel tactics" stories were carny bullshit told by old timers wanting to prove things were tougher in their day. I think it's one of the main reasons people in TEH BIZ by and large dislike the internet, since people are more likely to call you out on your tall tales. The only territory that seems to have legit fan encounter stories is Mid-South/UWF and that was in large part due to Watts' policy of keeping kayfabe by confronting fans.

I think that was at whatever HOF the Samoans got in at, since that appears to be Afa's daughter in the pic with him.

I'm happy for you Irv, and I'mma let you finish, but Sean Shannon had the best internet meltdown of ALL TIME! (sorry I had to go there) Also, Irv has quickly become the poster child for "what he's saying may be right but you feel compelled to disagree with him because he comes off as an obsessed nut".

As I noted on another forum yesterday: Anyone else think it's kind of funny that a guy like Jim Cornette ,who's whole shtick was the pansy mama's boy who was always getting the short end of gimmick matches and feuding with women, hates Russo so much? I mean, yeah, I get he's an old school Southern Rasslin' kind of guy, but is there really that big of a leap from Corny getting tarred and feathered back in the day to whatever-on-a-pole matches?

Honestly, Bret's WCW run ended up doing that for me. Yeah, you can blame the booking but that conveniently ignores the fact that a lot of the times he was out there mailing it in more than anyone not named Kevin Nash. It was like as soon as he set foot in WCW he realized what a mistake it was.

I'm guessing a lot of Dave's fandom of Edge comes from him being one of the few (perhaps the only) who got the fans completely behind Cena when they feuded. It seems fairly easy to tell that Dave is annoyed by the mixed reactions Cena gets (since a lot of it comes from male fans booing just because the girls/kids are cheering and not because of anything Cena is doing), so anyone who can get the crowd fully behind him will get a pop from Meltzer.

I wonder why the people who try to link MMA to pro wrestling based off their common roots never try to make the claim that soccer, rugby, Australian rules football, and the NFL are all the same thing. I mean, they all come from the same roots, right? Soccer players re-invented the role of placekicking in the NFL, yet there's never been a kicker elected to the Football HOF. Of course the big difference (as alluded to before) is that none of those football-related sports are seen as jokes and as such none of them need to latch on to something else to appear legit. The whole thing reminds me of how people will point out that guys like Angle got in because the old timers want to make their life's work seem more legit, but it's almost exactly the same logic as the MMA=pro wrestling argument. Hell, it's the same logic that Inoki used to send NJ guys to get slaughtered in MMA events, thinking that if the wrestling guy at least made a go at it it would make the pro wrestling style seem legit.

I don't think he did either, but I've seen people attempt to make the argument. Usually it boils down to those who weren't able to get past his physical appearance, and make ridiculously inaccurate claims of his in ring ability to try to make it look like they aren't being a build queen about it. Granted, the largest proponent of this has been Scott Keith (his biggest claim is that in the 60 minute draws with Flair, Dusty just lies on the mat selling the figure 4 for most of it), but it's also been well documented how people parrot his opinions until they become considered truths.

I don't really have a dog in this fight, but it bears mentioning that the more I see of Big Daddy the more it seems like he's the British version of Dusty Rhodes. I'm reasonably certain that had Dusty not been on the initial 1996 list of inductees, there would be some very similar arguments being made. I mean, yeah it seems beyond question that they both sucked in the workrate sense, but they also both had boatloads of personality and charisma. Just because someone is lacking in one area of what most feel is a HOF quality wrestler doesn't mean that person should be immediately disqualified from the discussion. It really seems that the whole Big Daddy situation is just another version of the never ending "Workrate Uber Alles" debate that anyone who's been discussing wrestling on the internet for more than 5 minutes should be sick to death of. Also the whole deal with British wrestling in general being a somewhat different animal seems to confuse a lot of folks since a lot of the usual metrics don't completely apply.

I thought it was just JR being all self-referential about him being out of touch with what the kids are talking about these days. I did however notice that he often has surly comebacks on Todd in occasions that don't quite call for it. Like if it was a wrestler doing it, you'd be supposed to think he was positioning for a heel turn.

Any quality that isn't "drawing money" is overrated, because that's the only one that matters.

No he doesnt. In certion aspects he sees similarites but to say he thinks they are the same thing simply isnt true. He's on record on numerous occasions stating that MMA should promote itself like pro wrestling (in terms of personalities, not "it's a work"), so I think sometimes it's more like he believes MMA basically turning itself into more or less real pro wrestling is the best way for it to gain in popularity.

Goldberg is a better candidate than a lot of people who are in. I'm not entirely sure he's not a better candidate then Billy Graham in some ways. Well Goldberg didn't have an embarrassing downside of his career where he stopped working out and pretended to be a Karate guy, so I see where you're coming from.

How many people, voters or WON readers in general, know anything about British wrestling other than maybe Big Daddy and Rollerball?

It almost seems like the inclusion of British/Euro guys is a giant troll on the part of Dave against the people who were asking for them to be included in the HOF. The way it's set up is that while those guys finally are on the ballot, it's seemingly done in a way where almost none have any real chance since the only info most of the voters have is what they read in the WON (where it's established Dave doesn't really understand how the business is completely different over there). Then there will be the fallback of "well we had those guys on the ballot and no one voted for them so I guess they weren't HOF worthy after all".

I understand the thrill people get over being contrarian on the interwebs, but even with that it's a stretch to say DK was overrated. Sure he was probably the biggest douchebag in the history of wrestling outside the ring (and think about the ground that covers), but it's crossing the line to willful ignorance to not acknowledge he was doing things in the early 80s very few people could do.

I know it's Dave and his fans are going to parrot pretty much whatever he says, but how long is he going to get away with saying all real sports should be marketed like pro wrestling?

I think rock n' roll makes a better (and far less creepy) analogy than porn. The Rolling Stones still can do all their classic hits (or "spots" if you will) and the long term fans will be all "YOU STILL GOT IT! *CLAP CLAP CLAPCLAPCLAP*" but at the end of the day it's still 60+ year old dudes running around on stage looking like your dad when he tries to look hip in front of your friends and ends up causing you to die a little inside out of embarrassment.

I don't like WWE removing Benoit from history, but at this point it's obvious they are not going to change their position anytime soon. I can understand their point of view, you can't blame a company that is trying to recreate itself as family friendly PG fun for trying to make people forget they had a double murderer as champion not too long ago. I just don't see the point of getting mad about it anymore, it's not like it's going to get them to change their minds. I do sometimes wonder if they're more mad at Benoit for bringing more attention to steroid/HGH use than the murders. I have a feeling had the murders happened like they did but it didn't result in half the roster getting caught up buying their stash from mark doctors, they may have started putting him back on video releases.