smkelly

Yeah, they are good, but even still, the old "missing blood" thing bothers me in the same way that there wasn't blood in the Owen/Bret cage match. Ricky should have wanted to inflict great physical harm equivalent or exceeding that which he had received first. I mean, Randy "ended" or "almost ended" Steamboat's career - let alone the implication that crushing the windpipe could result in an agonizing death i.e. suffocation. Steamer was a cookie-cutter face before the feud and was the same, honest-to-goodness swell babyface post "the big showdown" at WM3. Watching the Mania match in context, in my opinion, greatly diminishes the overall package. But as a standalone match on mute, it is a shining example of two excellent performers...that practiced the match endlessly backstage i.e "self-conscious epic".

Agreed that it is not a slam dunk per se, but '97 to me still wins by a large margin. 1987 Matches: Savage vs. Steamboat WM3. Eh. I know some people still love this match to death but every time I watch it nowadays my "love" for it dwindles. Santo vs. Casas Mask vs. Hair. Very beloved by many. Tenryu vs. Jumbo August. It's Tenryu and Jumbo. Was this really their first singles match against one another? Lawler vs. Idol Cage + Hair versus Hair. RE approved! Murdoch vs. Windham Mid-South July the 11th. One of the best matches either man had in their respective careers...which is saying a lot. Choshu vs. Fujiwara 6/?. Eh. A lot of peeps love this match. I'm not as inclined. War Games 7/4. I never watched this as a 'great' match but more of a 'great' spectacle. Flair vs. Windham Jan and April. Top matches for Barry's singles career and they're even up there for Flair's too. 1997 Matches: Misawa vs. Kobashi 1/20 All Japan. My favorite singles matches. Bret vs. Austin WM13. The quintessential epic WWF main event styled match. Rey vs. Eddy Mask versus Title. Now this was a great Rey match. Misawa & Akiyama vs. Kawada & Taue Tag League Finale. Not as good as the previous years' final, but still, this match is a barn burning example of the greatness of All Japan -- even in 1997! Misawa vs. Kobashi 10/21. Some people dislike the later in the decade matches between these two, but I don't. Owen vs. Davey Boy Euro title finale. Now this was a great Raw match. It might actually be the best wrestled Raw match ever...dunno. Volk Han vs. Kiyoshi Tamura Jan and Sep. I prefer the latter, but both are awesome shoot-style matches. Funk vs. Sabu Barbed Wire. Insanity. Probably one of the more gruesome matches I have ever seen. The first time I saw it, it was from an old .wmv file that was grainy as hell -- and that graininess made it look almost like a snuff film version of pro wrasslin'. Shawn vs. 'Taker Hell in a Cell. I'm not as high as others are (including Shawn on that night) on this match. It was a good match, but the next time Taker got in the cell he and Foley took this match and moved it up a few stories higher. Ohtani vs. Liger Feb. I might put this ahead of his Jan 96 match with Samurai. I didn't take notes very well on this match, so I'll need to view it again to be sure. Dean vs. Eddy 3/1?. I really like this match. I'd say it was their 3rd best match together, behind their first and last ECW matches. Misawa vs. Kawada 6/6. I don't know the general consensus for this match 'round these parts, but I like it A LOT. -- The above matches came from memory, so if dates are wrong, or stuff is left off, stay calm. My #1 from '97 is obviously Misawa/Kobashi 1/20. My #1 from '87 is probably Flair/Windham 1/20.

Whenever I see "self-conscious epic" I think of Davey Richards and wrestlers like him, which the WWE does fall into that category sometimes, but not often enough in my point-of-view to be a distinguishable mark of shame for them. I generally see dudes trying to beat one another up, win matches, and claim titles.

'87 over '97? No way.

I agree with that, yeah.

El-P -- Have you seen Umaga/Cena Last Man Standing?

Here are the top one-hundred workers from the Smarkschoice GOAT Poll: Some certainly interesting results though - some I agree with, some I don't. It'd be interesting to see what a PWO poll would look like. Post-Top One-Hundred: (interesting, surprising, etc)

Fuck you asshole, she died in April - not like you didn't know that.

Uh...where the hell did he say that? That sounds eerily similar to some Silence of the Lambs antagonist childhood memories.

Depends on what era of Hansen you watch. In the 90s, he was an unstoppable machine of stiffness. He looked hard as fuck in the 80s too. I haven't seen anything Hansen related from the 70s, but my overall experience of watching him has always been translated as, "Hansen is a stiff worker and I never see him slap his leg."

Rey is easily in the highest of highest echelon of pro wrestlers to ever wrestle. I'm glad you like him more than I do, but what were you trying to do there exactly? I'm not going to change my mind that easily - hell, Rey could be in my top twenty/thirty but I used a different umbrella number and I didn't make a list. Besides, I said it without saying it that Evans/PAC Maybe a POLL and DISCUSSION FORUM should be erected because these conversations keep coming up - GOAT? Nevertheless, I'd wager to think that being in the top 100 of all-time wrestlers would be an accomplishment in itself, not disparaging commentary of someone's career. How many pro wrestlers have there been - a few thousand at least? 100 / 2,500 = .04 So he would be in the highest echelon of wrestlers all-time (top 4%) just being inside the top one-hundred if there are or have been at least twenty-five hundred pro wrestlers. Top four percent is up there in my opinion.

Or what? Besides, its not like I'm at other message boards where you're not a member of while mentioning your name in unflattering ways. RE quotes:

Rey has been awesome since...well, his debut. But I wouldn't call him the best flippy-floppy guy, as Jack Evans and PAC's 3rd best highspot beats out anything Rey has ever done highspot wise. He's certainly in the top hundred of the GOAT though - Evans and Pac - not so much.

...

Just because he was a "bully" doesn't mean he wasn't bullied. I may be wrong, but I never saw him go out of his way to attack someone here, DVDVR, or elsewhere. His bullying came after the initial "RE is an idiot," post someone made to feed the troll and make themselves feel better by default. And its not like he bullied members for no reason -- he angst was directed at people that have "chased" him from board-to-board, thread-through-thread, and year-after-year. Slightly hyperbolic. Besides, RE was the only thought police here or at DVDVR? Not condoning it, but yeah, he wasn't the only one and not even the worst of the bunch either. But maybe your efforts should have been going elsewhere instead because there are plenty of egos that are not only larger but far more venomous. And the operative word 'we' is telling. In a way, and 'sympathize' is the wrong word to use, but I do feel sorry for the guy. I blame him for a lot of his misfortunes here-elsewhere, but we're not exactly the most welcoming crowd to get along with. Hell, simply because I have made several mistakes -- peeps come out of the wood work when I'm ever in an argument. But with RE, he always got a highly concentrated dose of members coming at him when he talked about his favorite matches, angles, whatever. And it's what fed him to continue his inane posts, which only chastised members like yourself into poking him with a stick a few more times. RE got the attention he wanted (sometimes) and you got to feel superior over someone who clearly is missing parts of his mental functioning. So I can't sympathize with you either man, because you were a big part of the RE problem. I bet you've logged on (maybe more than once) with the main priority of finding out what RE has said in response to one of your essays tearing him apart. RE is sick because he knowingly put stuff out into cyberspace that he could have only known by then that it would cause Ragnarok and then once it had been disputed, he argued to the hilt (more often than not) -- but on the flip side, we had members like yourself that instigated stuff with him all the time, called him bat shit crazy for even attempting to defend himself, rode him into the ground, and had the mental capacity to understand what he was doing was wrong. You've spoken about morality several times -- can you honestly say that your interactions with RE were of great moral significance? I mean, unless he was calling you out (kind of like how I'm addressing you now) then by what means other than self-interest to argue and humiliate did you have a singular reason to communicate with RE? Point being, is there *one* friendly interaction between yourself-RE in existence or has it always been "SLL cyber cock-punching RE into oblivion"? Ironic, yeah, but is it necessary to open up that can of worms again, SLL? I mean, what was the point of adding that? Someone differs with your train of thought and you poke him with a stick too, kind of like how by the time you've gotten to this part of my post you've probably already made several bullet points to defend, counter, and attack my post with a Dylan Waco inspired tirade questioning my sanity. But hopefully you've grown since RE left. Nevertheless. I am glad RE is gone. Threads can go on being torn apart without the necessity of the RE post and the dozens that naturally followed to castrate his every thought because it was their civic duty.

I didn't like the direction the angle was taken on Raw. It seems as though what Meltzer -- and a few of us thought in the beginning -- is coming to fruition. * Punk is being "downsized" so Cena can feud with del Rio over the title. Punk said he had zero qualms with him, but had issues with Nash instead (rightfully so), and now the other top baby face (Misterio) gets his long-awaited time under the knife after the traditional Pillmanizing-esque attack to free up time for surgery routine. * The text message thing - such a Russo white hummer whodunit mystery already. Nash will likely be only the catalyst of the faux Holmes investigation made by Punk, but where do those roads lead? It should lead to Cena or (preferably) Austin -- but that isn't and wasn't the aim of the angles' shelf life. * One McMahon is "forced" to step back while another McMahon gets air time, Hunter is "running" the show, and Kevin Nash is now the primary target of CM Punk's. And to top it off, Nash has already called H's out, which only adds "intrigue" to the mysterious sender of a hit text message but will probably end with Hunter, his wife, and Nash all having a belly laugh for twenty minutes at the start of Raw because they were all in on it from the beginning. Basically, the way Hunter has always done angles, Nash too - they're "smarter" than everyone else and they always come out the other side looking "better". Hence the original concept of this angle - McMahon Clan #1 -- Punk somewhere under them and John Cena. Therefore, status quo will be resumed. -- It (Summer of Punk) was awesome, indeed. I have loved Punk's promos -- towards Cena, and the back-and-forths with McMahon, Hunter, and admittedly, Nash, but as the adage goes, "All good things must come to an end." And that's where I have a problem. They have wrestlers that can perform, that can have excellent matches. They can do that at will, but their long-term booking strategies leave a lot to be desired. And that is the reason for my apprehension over this angles' most recent developments. I don't care to see Stephanie nor Kevin Nash involved because Triple H is a dangerous mixture all on his own without adding the captain of booking and the destroyer of careers and WCW into the pot. I wish I had the optimism of another adage - that "things have a way of working themselves out in the end," but I can't, and it's because "what you see is what you get."

H's must have left his phone in the white hummer.

Nova Scotia, I think.

Of course Sheamus wouldn't, but he would if he were a southey. And yeah, Punk hasn't taken a pedigree yet -- but, he did get jackknife powerbombed by Kevin Nash. Both are terrible regardless. Some of you might think having Nash back will be good, or maybe I'm just being too extrapolative, but I don't see good things coming out of it unless it was just another one-shot, which wouldn't make much sense then anyway. Add in Stephanie McMahon - another thing I'd rather not see. Nevertheless, I will turn in and watch tomorrow. The WWE have made some serious mistakes this year. They've hot-shotted an angle with Punk that could have been a lot differently. Now Kevin Nash, Stephanie McMahon, and Triple H are involved. What's next - Hall and Waltman? del Rio's destiny had been derailed so much that they put out one avenue to start the other one up. I mean, who is going to ultimately chase del Rio? Punk? Cena? Rey? Maybe del Rio finally got his to be a transitional champion to tie off loose ends. I don't see him lasting until WM because the whole "Cena-Rock for the title" thing at WM -- unless they scrap that too. Plus, add in the already dangerous level of depth on their roster. They're eating through things far too quickly. Who's at the main event level in the WWE? Like main eventing WrestleMania 'main event'. Orton, Cena & Punk are obvious right now Christian - don't see it happening Taker - definitely, but is never around HHH - is not a wrestler right now Henry - nope Sheamus - he was transitional before Bryan - not a chance Ziggler - nope Morrison - nope R-Truth - nope Rey - more yes than no del Rio - if the last 10 months are any indicator besides tonight, probably not Miz - a heel is champion and he's been pushed back a la Sheamus in the title reigns list Big Show - hasn't been booked like that in a while but could be overnight Kane - was champion for some time last year, but has been hit-and-miss since his debut in 1997

Yeah, but you're not thinking right Will. You live in Texas. I live in Michigan. I'm on the way to you man!

To be fair though, and you might disagree, but movies like Knocked Up, or a new one I keep seeing in previews (has Kate Hudson) - movies like that are conflicting. And it is being directed at the wrong kinds of audiences; i.e. younger people. I can see that, which I do, but I'm not going to lose my mind about it nor get into arguments of nonsensical drivel over it. That was one of the things that RE never got. He never learned to have a filter (which I am often guilty of too, but not as severely {not even in the same state}) and would argue things that if he had only looked at them without bias would have understood why he was wrong. He just never did that. And he never learned from that mistake either. It is why I am able to pull up posts of his from 2007 - he has always been that way. So yeah, he is either a long-lasting and extremely dedicated troll or...he is not of sound mind. And it is a good thing that he has left in my opinion.

Maybe so, but not as damaging as it would have been if Bret had left in '97 with the WWF title. Bischoff, though insane with a lot of his decisions, would have tried to use Bret (maybe) as the title carrying WWF champion to destroy Vince. TNA and ROH are small anthills in comparison to WCW -- at least what WCW used to be.

I remember him talking about that as far back as 2004. IIRC, he tried to make it sound less embarrassing than it actually would be. Why he would share that in the first place is...beyond me, but it wasn't in the same light as when Taz mentioned his orgasm after being slammed on the mat really hard. I mean, Taz laughed about it, but he was obviously embarrassed by it, and it was a funny story because there is medical science to back it up and it happened in pro wres -- but having orgasms while working out? Yeah. Never heard of that until RE brought it up. I've seen dudes get injured -- like the powerlifter whose ass literally blew out from squatting -- I've heard about powerlifters shitting themselves because they strained too much -- but I've never, not one singular time outside of RE's declaration heard about anyone having an orgasm while lifting weights. RE Quotes as ordered by Will:

Are companies held to the same standard as any citizen in regards to bounced checks?

That is...yeah.