smkelly

You're honestly the best candidate to do it too. And yes, that sounds like an excellent plan. I hope to read that list before I'm 30 though. Similarly, I anticipate full match write-ups as well.

I don't know. Whenever I watched the Junior Tournaments when I was first getting into puro (early 2002) it was for Benoit (Which WCW had remarked about several times), Liger (some of his one or two shots on Nitro/Thunder), Eddy (Which similarly to Benoit was mentioned), and The Great Sasuke because I had seen him in ECW in 1997 and then the WWF in 1998. Obviously I discovered more workers, like Samurai, the real Sasuke and Liger, and the real Benoit and Guerrero. But though Samurai was definitely awesome and better than any Indy junior America had at the time when I was watching his footage from the early nineties, he never became the guy I bought a VHS dub to see. Ohtani sure as hell did when I finally saw the Super Junior Tag League. I really liked the Michinoku Pro guys a lot (a lot more then than now though). I finally found the world of Masanobu Fuchi. But I never looked at discovering el Samurai like the discovery of Misawa vs. Kawada 6-3-94, or the June '95 tag, or Hart vs. Austin I Quit. I already knew Liger was awesome before I ever watched his Super Junior Final against Samurai. I watched it and Liger's performance was so spectacular that his already existing stock went up further than Samurai's went up from zero. Same with the 1993 Tournament Final - Benoit had already gone under the knife for spinal fusion when I watched their match for the first time. Again, I only saw it as the Benoit show, not the el Samurai show. I don't know what it is about him, I just never watch "him for him", or whatever that means. Just like I watched the Super J Cup because it had: Chris Benoit, Dean Malenko, Eddy Guerrero, Shinjiro Ohtani, Jushin Liger, TAKA Michinoku, and Super Delfin - I wanted to see all of them before el Samurai ever made the list.

I think you mean 'best' because you gave it ****1/2. Ultimo's non-American work squashes whatever he did in the states.

I'd vote for the former unless all promotion themed "errata" sets were stereo released.

I like the older Misawa/Kobashi matches significantly less than their bouts in '97 through '99. What is the consensus there? I already know John's, but feel free to add anyway, man.

Loss - You've never seen Misawa/Kobashi from 1/20/97? I know you said you didn't...but wow. I thought most fans like us had seen that match. I have a compilation with all of their matches...if you catch my drift.

As I said though, there were moments. One I remember specifically, though I don't remember the date, is one of the Misawa/Kobashi matches. It's later in the decade and Kobashi works over Misawa's arm something fierce. IIRC, he worked it over for the first 2/3 of the match. The last 1/3 was Misawa working against what had already been established. But since I am a die-hard All Japan pre-split mark, I generally look the other way when it comes time to lay out my final review/thoughts/analysis. I know that it is there ("lack of selling and therefore pointless arm work that leads nowhere") though, and a more unbiased fan could and probably would deduct points/stars/nice adjectives for it. Maybe unbiased isn't the right word because most of my viewing philosophies have undergone some much needed apparatus updates and modifications lately. But it probably is biased

Yeah, that would suck for ROH - especially the workers on the card itself.

I don't see how you can draw that conclusion based off Ohtani/Samurai not being as good as many claim to be - which I say knowing it was your #1 New Japan match of the 1990s. It is pretty common that the New Japan juniors get 'docked' for the same thing - lack of selling. Misawa, Kawada, and Kobashi, though masters of selling - they did have moments of, "Wow, I can't believe they're not selling anymore," when they clearly should have. But overall, I've never seen "jdw inspired in-depth dialogue" pointing out that the All Japan heavyweights of the 90s were bad sellers, let alone, in the league of what the New Japan juniors routinely did. I searched your pimping post/ballot for the words 'sell' and 'selling'. Nothing came up that would suggest a problem with their selling. At any rate, I think the 1/96 match between the two of them is an all-time great match...but I can see where people wouldn't like it as much as others do. And I largely disagree with the notion that it doesn't hold up. I find the 90s New Japan juniors to be better overall as a cohesive unit than anything puro junior related in the last decade and the beginning of the new one too.

Bret Hart: vs. HBK - The complete feud. I used to love their Survivor Series '92 match, but it sucks now when I watch it. I actually like their Iron Match match, and largely due to the reasons I dislike their SS '92 match. Then Montreal happened, which had been an awesome in-crowd brawling escapade before they were reached the ring. vs. Owen - especially in 1994 when they kicked ass at both WM and SummerSlam and had an hour long match together. Their cage match is one of the best ever, and their WM match is one of the best opening matches ever too. Both are WWF 1990s MOTDC. vs. Austin - Their submission match was the best they had, and my personal WWF 1990s MOTD. It is in the talking point of 1990s MOTD as well for me. Survivor Series 1996 was awesome too, as were the street fights and ten-man tag. vs. Davey Boy - I love their SummerSlam match to death and like the IYH World title match a lot too because of the blood in it. vs. Benoit - Though I'm not as high on mostly any of their other matches, the Owen Tribute was awesome. Probably one of my all-time favorite WCW moments. El Samurai: vs. Liger - best match being 4/30/92 which is a 1990s MOTDC. Also had a fantastic match in May of 92 too. vs. Benoit - I liked their 1993 TOSJ finals match a lot better in 2002 then I do now. * His TOSJ 1997 work was impressive. Though I think the final is overrated because of the reverse head-dumping top rope hurricanrana. I kid. It should have been the finish though. * His J Crown match against Ohtani is an all-timer. As was the UWA title match in January of the same year. Overall though - I'd go with Bret. Bret excelled in areas that Samurai floundered - notably, selling. And selling is very important to me.

Kind of like how Hughes Net has an Internet monopoly over the township I live in. And they charge something like fifty bucks more than any other provider that can't reach my house. One of which I have a cell phone through. You have an excellent point there. I'll add that one of (fiction) professional wrestling's largest fanbases has largely transitioned over to (real) professional wrestling. I go to a school that has something like 26,000 students. The bars, dance club, late teen/early twenty themed restaurants, and pretty much any other hangout spot in town have UFC on PPV whenever a show is happening. I never once have seen a Vince McMahon or Panda Energy PPV ever be shown in the MMA fan setting spots. Only individual fans would "host" a wrestling PPV party. There'd be like ten dudes watching a PPV together while thousands of others watched an MMA PPV (on the same day or some other weekend). Dudes would literally post flyers in all of the building's hallways. Those were usually covered up by the 'for sale' signs, 'religion of some kind' signs, and "UFC THIS WEEKEND~!" signs. A professor of mine was a long time wrestling fan and honestly thought that the WWE and all major wrestling companies will ultimately fail in obvious competition against mixed martial arts, just as boxing largely has too. Only that wrestling will not and cannot recover.

I like Christian, have since he was a mid card heel act busting his ass on Raw in '03, but I dislike his finishing maneuver with great prejudice.

Regarding the IC title, all of the WWF's titles at that time frame were being exchanged like high fives down the hallway, man. Russo, and those who allowed him to do so, made the titles into stage props instead of an athletic accomplishment akin to boxing and MMA titles. Thankfully though, only the Hardcore championship had a 24/7 changeability rate.

How can they be so awesome with Punk but be so plain and generic with Danielson? Unless he lies, turns heel, and beats the heel World Champion for the title.

The way I looked it as was that Punk/Cena was just the beginning of the angle. Because when Vince gets involved, more are bound to appear. Exactly. The availability of more channels, the Internet, and overall increases of entertainment technology, a 3.2 in 2011 on Monday nights from 9PM-11PM is not bad. Unlike MJH, I see some light at the end of the tunnel on that theory, Mike. Hunter is a master of the game - when the game is the business and the business is professional wrestling. There is absolutely no way that back in his Terra Ryzing days that anyone ever imagined him becoming one of the most popular, yet despised, wrestlers of all-time. And who did Terra latch unto when he arrived in the WWF? The best wrestling politicians in the WWF; one of which helped deliver crippling blows that lead to death of WCW; and the other routinely made Vince McMahon dance to his beat. Then Hunter, once his buddies had either left or retired from 'injuries', got punished a bit for being a dumbass, but then catapults himself into the hot seat by literally banging the hotseat. Then it became the Triple H variety hour. And then it became the "Friends of Triple H Variety Hour". And anytime anything was ever remotely interesting, Triple H got involved somehow and in some great significance to boot. Such as becoming The Rock’s #1 heel adversary. On the other hand, becoming “Stone Cold” Steve Austin’s #1 heel adversary too. And years later, he was doing it to the new generations big guns with John Cena and Randy Orton. Triple H learned from Kevin Nash how to find, always, your way into anything that will make you more money. Like how Nash held WCW up for more money on more than one occasion. How he rode on the coattails of guys like Hogan, Flair, Savage, Piper, and in late ’97 and early ’98 Sting, and then again in late ’98 with Goldberg. I also think that’s where Hunter gets his superiority complex from too. It took several wrestlers to make Goldberg the wrestler he was up to Starrcade 1998. It took Nash eleven minutes and twenty seconds to undo, and erase, everything all of the contributing boys in the back and WCW management had done to make a superstar of that caliber in under a years’ time. Hunter did the same thing in the WWF once his ass was firmly situated on the throne. The Rock brings Booker T up to speed in the WWF and takes him from a flimsy Vince Russo main eventer and transformed him into a WWF superstar. H’s changed that. Then he did it to Jericho, which is after both The Rock and Austin brought him to speed. Hunter had done it several times with The Rock, though. Like with Mick Foley. I would wager that H’s got one over on Austin and the Undertaker there too. Point blank, if there is something that will benefit him, or he wants to be a part of – then it’s going to happen. I mean, who is charge of the Raw writers again? And Triple H’s promotion in 2010. Who screams into Michael Cole’s headset? And the thing that pisses me off is that Hunter, though talented in his own right, is still nothing more than a coaches favorite. He gets privileges because of connections. He doesn’t have to earn what he has been given unlike some guys like Eddy, Jericho, Benoit, Finlay, Punk, Misterio, and others had to routinely get their careers side-tracked by poor creative performances, while Hunter is in on the creative aspect. Favoritism fucking sucks in the work place; it sucks period when you’re not the favorite one though you ought to be. And that’s all I have to say on that subject.

Vince and co shouldn't be surprised though. They made the same mistake with Hogan. Just like they did with Rock & Austin. And now they're doing it with Cena. EDIT: The numbers I'm most anxious to know are the PPV related numbers.

It is easy to argue that HHH did turn people away from the WWF in that time frame. While he made up a large percentage of fans turning away, he wasn't the only reason though.

No, I wouldn't laugh at the injury itself. It was a horrifying and shock producing injury. Probably the worst leg break in wrestling history with all things considered and I feel bad that Sid has that unofficial title. I have always questioned his thinking though - as in, "I'm 6'9 and about 310lbs. Maybe I shouldn't be on the top rope doing RVD kicks." And to be honest, I was always a Sid fan myself. I was pumped when he returned to WCW in 1999. But God damn did he make a fool out of himself on several occasions with a live mic or camera in his face. Still, he remains one of the more physically imposing big men that I have ever seen. Not only was he tall, but he had the muscles of a British Bulldog. And he breathed like a bear.

It was a good show...but I had for some reason thought that Sid was going to be on the show himself. I liked the slip up of his 'fatal' injury though, got a good laugh out of me. I also listened to an older show last night, the one with Corino. He sounded like Bix almost.

SMV is a good place to check for obscure Indy tapes. Though they charge an arm and a leg, their lists is what makes them valuable in my eyes - the likelihood of someone having their footage is pretty high too.

No trollin', but do you hate Meltzer from a competitive aspect or simply because you hate him? I don't want to get in a stupid argument, but Dave is a nice guy who has been seemingly exploiting ridiculously vague headlines as well as never labelling members only posts as such and assigning the status at random (all of which he even did for stuff like Joe Higuchi's death) to get more page views/ad impressions for the last year+. And, as was noted in...maybe this thread, he's been suffering as a wrestling reporter (especially with regards to WWE) over the last couple years especially compared to someone I personally dislike in Mike Johnson. Dave has always been nice to me except for a very odd misunderstanding a couple years ago that we've gotten over. Bryan...who the hell knows. Thanks. I wasn't looking for an argument When was Meltzer at his best, or when does he do his best work?

How far out in advance do they book venues? That is a reoccurring theme for the WWE writers. They make beautiful fiction but ruin it with inconsistencies that change as often as the wind blows. Had they booked the show differently, as in, instead of having a "one" night tournament, do two matches tonight, followed by two next week, so on and so forth until the next PPV comes for the final match to be determined. Having a vacant championship while trying to fill it is certainly better than what they have subsequently done after the excellent performances on the PPV and the weeks leading up to it. This is where daytime soap opera writers fail miserably. They're used to mostly women viewers, not fans like us. Because if I were in that crowd, I would have gotten a "Bullshit!" chant going the moment HHH got into the ring. No trollin', but do you hate Meltzer from a competitive aspect or simply because you hate him?

For current fans, yes, I would agree. As you mentioned John, Montreal happened fourteen years ago. How much of the WWE fanbase is 1) over the age of fourteen and 2) have been fans for at least that long of a time or 3) have since become a fan and actively searched and found key moments of the past? Had they ran that angle/feud in 2000, obviously the results would have been better. But having down it in 2010 where Bret was clearly not Bret anymore and hadn't been for nearly a decade and then combined with Vince being hit-and-miss on TV and not the #1 heel or even in the top five anymore...no wonder it didn't work. Do you draw the same distinctions when it comes to matches, though? And what length of time do you quantify as 'sustained'? I might be alone with this, but if something entertains me like the Punk's promos have, then it entertains me with or without it impacting business or having a prolonged impact on the wrestling world as a whole.

Is that guy purposely screwing up his career?