WingedEagle

Bischoff unquestionably changed history. But one can do so in positive and negative ways. I believe his role in letting WCW spiral to near 9 figure losses and the cancellation of TV outweighs what he brought to the table before that point.

I compare Bischoff's WON HOF credentials to Marvin Miller's credentials for the Baseball HOF. Without Miller's work in eliminating the reserve clause in MLB, the game would be vastly different today. Without Bischoff going w/ Hogan as a heel and coming up w/ the NWO, wrestling would be vastly different today. Some might argue that baseball and wrestling are actually worse off today because of Miller's and Bischoff's actions, but I think those people are wrong. Yes, both Miller and Bischoff are mainly known for doing one thing, but that one thing made such an impact that it altered the course of baseball/wrestling forever. If I had a vote, both Miller and Bischoff would be in the HOF. Miller has a stronger case, though, IMO. Bischoff convinced Turner to give him a Monday night time slot and, so the story goes, wanted to push an inter-promotional feud after seeing the NJPW/UWFI Dome show. I don't know how instrumental he was in selling Hogan on a heel turn as opposed to Hogan reading the tea leaves. If we give him substantial credit for that its a great resume and historic impact on the business. But as Loss and others noted, he was at the helm when the ship began taking on water and rather than plug those breaches, he blew them wide open. I don't see any case for Nitro + NWO overcoming that.

That'd be nice but don't see HHH passing on getting back his win over Lesnar. I suppose its possible if they extend his contract but still fully expect that on the big show.

Yep, that was back in '96 where they introduced nwo sting and led to crow sting.

It was definitely sold that way. I was at the show live and the anticipation of Sting being there was a major, major aspect of the show. People were defeated when he didn't show up to stop the NWO from winning at the finish and when he came down from the building the pop in the building was insane and unlike anything I have ever been a part of before or since. Cool, that's what I thought. I definitely remembered that pop but wasn't sure if I was imagining things about the build. Looks like that drew a 0.89 buyrate, good for 3rd on the year behind Starrcade and Havoc. The show also had Rodman appearing in a non-wrestling capacity.

I'd have to go back and review how certain PPVs other than Starrcade were promoted to see what else he was responsible for. Offhand I believe Uncensored with the nwo vs. wcw vs. piper mess was sold with Sting having an impact on the main event. Will try to take a look at other PPVs that year to see which, if any, were sold on his back.

That's an interesting concept. I wonder if it's true. ... Anyway, Sting was probably the #3 babyface in the US in that period. The other two happen to be in the HOF, and if one goes further down the list, you'll find a number of "top" babyfaces from that era below Sting that are also in. It is an argument that splits both ways. It's tricky, and that's why I framed it as I did, as an emotional thing. Personally, without looking at numbers, I'd be tempted to suspect Taker (92-98) as higher. Even when he didn't have the belt, he shared that #1 spot with Bret most of the time. Boy did he have some shitty guys to feud with a lot of the time though. And Savage is probably a compelling case. He was basically the biggest draw for Summerslam 91 (or at least Dave thought so at the time), then he had high profile, memorable (and I think decently drawing) feuds with Jake and Flair, basically got Razor over as a top level heel, and he was even used in Early-mid 93 as an anchor on house show cards vs Doink and Lawler. More than that, he was considered invaluable to Vince as a top announcer on Raw, Superstars and Mania 9, not to mention the very public charity work he did in 93 (which is spotlighted all over TV that year) in order to help shake some of the scandals of 92. Macho was the go to guy for that. Late in the year he had the Crush feud which rode things out til Mania X. And we've talked plenty about how he drew vs Flair in WCW in 96 before the NWO came in. The key word there here is emotional. I would imagine (and happily be shot down) that the demographics here skew towards folks my age and older, which means they were in the 8-14 range when Sting became a national figure in '88, had the Muta feud & team with Flair team in '89, followed by the knee injury at the hands of the horsemen, the scene on crutches at wrestle war / capital combat and then win the belt at the GAB in '90. Combine all of that with the bonde buzz, the facepaint, the splash and the howling? The guy was everything cool about wrestling as far as I was concerned and was hooked from thereon out. He was in that elite tier in WCW for the rest of the decade, whether in genuine classics with Vader, redoing Flair stuff or the crow years, including '97 when he was responsible for the biggest buyrate in company history. At some point during that period you/I start get online, start reading more about the industry in the WON or elsewhere and the world outside of turner & titan, and your perspective becomes clearer. Sting was one of the first (and *the* first non WWFer) wrestlers that got me hooked on the game because of when I started watching. Because of that I definitely look back on him as a huge star and moreso than any off the cuff, objective analysis would suggest is appropriate. If I ever open the mailbox and read his WON HOF bio it'll be awesome. But he probably wouldn't make my ballot if I had one.

Nice, I definitely didn't realize this was essentially the first big 6 man of the era. Pretty special and definitely neat seeing Taue on the other side. I'd like to say I rate this above others in the series because I knew it was what kicked things off, but that won't hold water now.

The two that stand out for me are 1) vs. Foley at Backlash '04 and 2) the heel vs. heel match with Edge on Raw.. Other than those and his work in the angle setting up the Mania main event vs. HHH, nothing he's done has been that memorable for me. Same thing with Sheamus, just a couple of guys I don't connect with at all and more often than not don't enjoy.

I like Low Ki. I enjoy watching Ki matches against most styles of opponents. If Ki maintains over 10% for more than 2-3 years I'm out.

How many crowds have ever approached this one? I've read about Misawa-Jumbo and always heard you had to be there to feel it, but by comparison this made Budokan look like it was populated by mutes that night. I don't know what the legacy of this match is without that crowd nor am I all that concerned with it. Just a phenomenal performance by all involved, one of those matches you show someone when they ask why you're a wrestling fan.

Cool, that'd make a lot more sense. Just didn't recall seeing as much hype for it as some others. I also thought it was superior to the October Misawa/Jumbo six man which included Kawada and saw Taue on Jumbo's team, although that had a hotter finishing stretch.

This is phenomenal. While Misawa taking off the mask 12 days earlier is more commonly referenced, this is the perfect intro to 6-8-90 for all the reasons mentioned. You've got young Kobashi with his fire & facials and young Taue as surly as ever even if he doesn't have to shave yet. Misawa is still essentially wrestling as Tiger Mask, but now with a real hatred for Jumbo that the mid-match brawl and his infrequent elbows bring out. Jumbo sells the first elbow outside on the floor for so long that every subsequent one, including at ringside on 6-8, are clearly a big deal even before it becomes the strike of the decade. I don't know why this is less heralded than later iterations or if I've simply missed the praise, but this was a thrill.

Would absolutely love to see this. I have almost zero exposure to British wrestling but this is pretty timely after reading McManus's bio in the Observer HOF issue. Definitely stoked to see what becomes available.

I'm basically brand new to watching lucha but you don't have to be a vet to see that Juvy and Psicosis were responsible for everything good that took place here. Can't wait to ramp up my lucha exposure.

Awesome, way to make the most of it. I had to sucker 3 friends into it who can't be compelled to watch wrestling more than once or twice a year, so I'm glad to be there at all.

225B for this guy.

I always loved that Jay Z dropped a Luger reference in Can't Knock the Hustle: I'm making short term goals, wonder whether foes just put away the leathers and put ice on the gold chilly with enough bail money to free a big Willy high stakes, I got more at stake than Philly shopping sprees, coping three, deuce fever I guess its fully loaded, ah yes, bouncing in the lex luger, tires smoke like Buddha 50 g's to the crap shooter Until learning that a producer also went by the name Lex Luger. So crushing.

In that case I feel blessed. But that's pretty funny. Hate to think how an editor might slow him down.

I thought it was originally attributed to Choshu (I believe referred to then as the Sasorigatame but the odds I'm recalling and spelling that correctly are slim). Can anyone trace it back before him?

No complaints here. He actually gave me a plug in last night's update for a charity I'm running the marathon for this year. Any such efforts are always appreciated -- well above and beyond the call of duty!