King Solomon

Wasn't Bonnie involved in the original 1977-78 angle? I think she was one of Flair's girls on screen

I found your discussion with Parv interesting about how some guys are Ric Flair's and some are Steamboats. I think I'm a tweener. I prefer to be in a relationship than sleep around but the problem is I suck at relationships and I don't have the sauve to be a player

I remember being shocked at the time in how Steamboat was getting booed. It reminded me of when Bob Backlund was in PRO USA and the fans weren't as kind to him as they were when Bob was in the WWF.

In discussing the Flair\Steamboat dynamic where Ricky was booed by the fans, Flair in his book talks about that Bonnie Steamboat was really controlling Steamer at this time and insisted on being in front of the camera with little Ricky. Flair wanted Steamboat to be the sex symbol type wrestler that he was during their previous Mid Atlantic feud. I think I read that Flair even went to George Scott with his concerns but to no avail as Bonnie was running that relationship.

in regards to the "tougher than Gerlado's nose" reference, here is what the commentator was talking about. Geraldo was a talk show host/Investigavtice reporter for CBS in the 80's and this show had to do with the KKK. Geraldo got his nose broken in the scuffle here

Duggan in his book does say that Sawyer got too rough with his wife in angle run at the Irish McNeil boys club in 1985. Duggan thought that Sawyer was a jerkoff for doing that to his wife and being too rough with her. It was an angle to set up a mtahc in the Superdome thanksgiving 85 I think.

Sgt. Slaughter-1980-mid 1985. He started putting on some weight around summer of 85 and was noticeably heavier by the Supercalsh 85 show. It didn't help that they booked him against Zybsko and Zukhoff during this time. He went from being a hot babyface in WWF and even stayed hot initally after entering the AWA to cooling off to the point where he became a very annoying patriot type babyface. His promos at this time also foicused too much on his GI Joe sthick and getting himself over rather than getting his program over. I have always thought that Slaughter was a much better heel than babyface due to his incredible ability to bump and also his Drill Seargent gimmick was more suited for a heel than a baby. There were only so many foreign heels to go around so Sarge's gimmick depended on him facing off against foreign mencaes, when you didnt have these guys at your disposal then it took something away from his gimmick. Guys like Hacksaw, Hogan, Dusty and T.A. were patriotic but that was integrated into their charachter instead of being their whole persona. When Sarge was in the AWA his patriotism became annoying rather than galvanizing. His work suffered in late 85-early 86 until he left the AWA in May of 86. He was out of shape and lazy during this time. I think he became his own biggest fan during this time. I just wish he coulda worked something out with Vince and stayed in the WWF and then turn heel in early 86 in time to face Hogan at Mania 2. Nikita Koloff-1985-Summer of 87. From his NWA World tag title reign until he lost the U.S. tiotle to Luger, Nikita had great momentum. While he was never a great in ring worker he still made what he did count. He also had incredible intensity and an awesome physique. He got over like a million bucks leading up to the initial Bash in 85 evidenced by the 27,000 attendance figure for that show. He had very good matches with Flair and T.A. and was JCP's scariest heel during 85 and 86. Good power moves and of course the sickle. His russian accent wasn't the best but it didn't matter the fans suspended disbelief and saw this guy as a huge threat. Along with Ivan had a good but not great program with the Roadies but is still cool seeing these two power teams feuding with each other. Even after the face turn Nikita had a very good Starrcade match with Flair and went on to win the Crockett Cup with Dusty. I bought into Nikita as a main eventer all the way up until his U.S. title loss to Luger at bash 87. Luger seemed like the bully in this match and made Nikita seem normal. I have no problem with this in order to garner sympathy for Nikita and have him regain the title at Starrcade 87 but instead Nikita gradually declined in 87 and then fell off a cliff in 88.

Really in the late 80's the media darlings in baseball were the New York Mets. The Braves were bottom feeders at the time, eventually they found their way in 1991 and by that time the Mets were falling apart organizationally/

JYD was saying that he came to North Kaka lacki by way of South Kacka lacki which means he came to North Carolina by way of South Carolina. The "Kaka Lacki" thing is slang for "Carolina". Rappers also use the Kaka lacki verbiage when referring to either South or North Carolina.

I watched a couple more Bordy matches from Japan but left my notes at home so I'll post them up soon. Planning to watch more but honestly it's hard to pull me away from Mid South right now.

he had some pretty measured promos, just check out St. Louis or Texas and even the AWA. It wasn't all ranting and raving

Yeah Matt Millen also had a story about how he was getting a haircut from Alzado's wife and then Lyle arrived and started getting physical with his wife and Millen had to physically stop Alzado from abusing his wife.

Yup, great book by the way

It's not so much the fact he was killed but the fact that him being killed resulted in a massive eulogy from Meltzer which helped to generate a myth of this great and legendary worker. The timing is arguably key: 1988. That was a time when a guy like Meltzer had a sizable audience but also a time when footage was not readily available and the tape trading scene wasn't what it was in, say, the late 90s. Received wisdom, once it is acquired, dies very hard. Look at Dynamite Kid vs. Tiger Mask. The idea that that is a great match is almost hard-wired into the minds of at least two generations of fans. If Brody doesn't die, he doesn't acquire this mythical status. He probably has a run in early 90s WCW or something and is remembered by lots of people as being a shitty brawling guy not too much better than Jim Duggan. If Brody does die, he doesn't get Meltzer working overtime to put him over as an all-time great. Point being: most fans don't go back and watch old 80s territories, or All Japan footage from 1981. Most fans will remember seeing one or two Brody matches they were ok with and be happy to go on rep. That rep is absolutely connected with his death and its timing. The thing is though that Brody was looked at a legend far before 1988, just read the Observers in 83, 84, 85 and 86 for example as Brody was very well thought of by Meltzer and the Hardcore fans of the day. Just look at the top 100 wreslters lists that Meltzer used to publish back then, Brody was near the top much of the time. By 1988 I had saw Brody matches from New Japan, All Japan, AWA, Texas, St. Louis, WWC and I loved what I saw. The thing is the Hardcore fans of the day put a premium on realism which IMHO Brody delivered. Hardcore fans back then were turned off by the WWF's style of Powder Puff wrestling which they presented much of the time including myself. When Brody died I wasn't even a subscriber to the observer and I had heard about the death via L.A. Times news article. So Brody being looked at as a Legend came well before 1988. I was at a fan convention in early 88 and Brody was glorified by the hardcores there so his death did not create his Legend.

It's not so much the fact he was killed but the fact that him being killed resulted in a massive eulogy from Meltzer which helped to generate a myth of this great and legendary worker. The timing is arguably key: 1988. That was a time when a guy like Meltzer had a sizable audience but also a time when footage was not readily available and the tape trading scene wasn't what it was in, say, the late 90s. Received wisdom, once it is acquired, dies very hard. Look at Dynamite Kid vs. Tiger Mask. The idea that that is a great match is almost hard-wired into the minds of at least two generations of fans. If Brody doesn't die, he doesn't acquire this mythical status. He probably has a run in early 90s WCW or something and is remembered by lots of people as being a shitty brawling guy not too much better than Jim Duggan. If Brody does die, he doesn't get Meltzer working overtime to put him over as an all-time great. Point being: most fans don't go back and watch old 80s territories, or All Japan footage from 1981. Most fans will remember seeing one or two Brody matches they were ok with and be happy to go on rep. That rep is absolutely connected with his death and its timing. The thing is if you read the Observers in 83, 84, 85, 86 etc Brody was very well thought of, just look at Meltzer's top 100 lists during the the observer years in the 80's and Brody was near the top much of the time. Hardcore fans back then loved Brody for the most part. By 1988 I had seen Brody in Texas, AWA, St. Louis, Japan-All and New so I had seen much of Brody and loved what I saw. I think the Hardcores in the 80's including myself put a premium on realism which INHO Brody delivered. I think much of the Hardcore audience was turned off by the Powder Puff style of wrestling that the WWF presented much of the time. When Bordy died I had heard it from my dad who shoed me the L.A. Times article so Brody being a Legend wasn't something that just came about because of his death or because of Meltzer. I didn't subscribe to Meltzer then but I looked at Brody as a legend and so did many fans back then. I

Okay so I got around to wtaching 5 Brody matches last nite ans I am planning to watch more this weekend, so here goes: 1. Brody and King Curtis vs. Destroyer and Giant Baba-1-5-79 What I like about Brody in this mact hare the one armed body slams of Destroyer and his flying knee leading to the pin of Baba. Brody also does sell in this match. His brawling looks too soft but that may be due to him being in the ring with Baba as we know guys liked to take care of him. Didn't seem to be in the ring with Destroyer much who I think is a great worker even at that point. ASeemed like Curtis was in more than Brody. Brusier is huge here, probably slightly above the 300 pound mark, maybe 310 or so. Match was okay, nothing special but is wasn't awful either. I always appreciate clean finishes when top guys are involved. 2. Brody vs. Abdullah-4/10/81 Both have good entrances, both bleed and both have slow unispired brawling on their way to what appears as a DCO. They brawl into the crowd so it's their standard match. Brody sells. This is pretty much a nothing match. 3. Brody vs. Baba-4/27/81 Brody bleeds here and also sells for Baba. It's the typical match against Baba, slow paced and he has to take care of him with his offense and not hit him too hard. They took the match out side the ring. Brody throws a nice drop kick and finishes it up with a flying knee for the pin. Not a very good match but Brody was alright here. 4. Brody vs. Dory Funk Jr.-10/9/81-International title match Again Brody bleeds and sells here. Good drama in the match and much better brawling from Brody's end now that he doesn't have to take care of his opponent as far as being to ruff with him. One thing I noticed is that Brody is excellent at running the ropes especially for a big man. Brody throws a good dropkick, his chops on Dory are decent. One thing I notice about Brody's offensive attcak here is that he is very deliberate unlike Hansen who is more full bore, I appreciate both styles. Buck Robley is at ringside and figures in the match after Brody attacks Dory with the chain and this also brings in Terry Funk, Dory ends upo using the chain on Brody. I really liiked this match until the run ins leading to the DQ decision. This match had very good drama and the crowd was into it. I don't really like Dory but he was entertaining in this match. This is the first match of out these four that I really think Brody performed real well. 5.Terry Funk vs. Brody-11/30/81 Very stiff offense in this match by Brody, hard chops to the chest, kicks, solid chops to the head. Brody throws a great drop kick. Brody also sells chops delivered by Funk. Brody goes to the top roipe at some point and I notice that he has great agility for a big man. Brody gets a back breaker on Funk in order to set up the ref bump. Good flying knee by Brody. Snuka comes to ringside. Brody bleeds and Snuka shortly intereferes. Brody hits Funk with chain. Dory runs in and rescues Terry, four way breaks out with all the principles. I thought this was a good match that coulda been even better if it had lasted longer. Crowd was into everything and drama was building. I thought Brody was great here.

Those Milk commercials were all over the place back then

here is a longer version of the Alzado tribute http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZiYl4vr-9I

Watching Mid South November 1984 right now which is just after the Butch Reed turn. This is after the failed attempts at pushing Brickhouse Brown and Master G. I enjoy Hacksaw Duggan even tho I think his offense is sloppy. He is entertaining as hell as the fans love him. After watching most of the 1984 season by now I gotta go with the Condrey-Eaton version of the Midnight Express over the Lane-eaton version. I also far away like the RnR's over the Fantastics and Fabulous Ones. It seemed like the Fantastics worked more like big men than a smaller wrestlers style that the RnR's worked. I have always thought the Fabs woulda been better as heels than faces. I just don't see them getting the sympathy that a team like the RnR's got. Magnum noticeably improved during this time. I think his punches and forearm smashes looked weak during this time but his belly to belly finish was good even tho it wasn't impressive as it would come to be later in JCP. He seemd like he had the raw skills but really didn't put it all togther until he got to Crockett. He really developed his charachter here and it's a shame that Watts lost him to Crockett. JYD was awful in 84, got really out of shape and his offense looked glacial at best. He was never a very good in ring worker but at least he had the look prior to late 83. I think it was his first stint away from Mid South after the Gorilla suit angle that JYD came back noticeably heavier. Even his loss was a dent in Mid South I don't how long fans were going to put up with him in the top spot when he was so out of shape and getting blown up early in matches. Duggan seems to be getting a head of JYD in the popularity department upon his return from Florida. Steve Wiliams really imporves in the ring but his Mic work leaves a lot to be desired. But I really think he beocmes a solid hand during 1984. Believable offense, great football tackles and his OKie Stampede is awesome. I enjoy Terry Taylor's work, real smooth and crisp. Aw shucks guy on the mic but he could get sympathy in the ring and had the prototypical young white meat babyface look going on. Hercules Hernandez arrives under the mask but then unveils to reaveal himself. I like this Hercules much better than the WWF version, love his finisher which they call the Shina No Maki or something like that. He is a little stiff in his punches and clothes lines but he is a solid power guy that works perfectly in the henchman role. The Guerreros just arrived so can't wait to see them as heels going against the RnR's. Nikolai Volkoff is a channel changer for me, besides the brute strengh type moves he offers nothing for my tastes. Slow methodical is fine but there seems to be no energy in anything other than his staright power moves. His reactions to getting hit are too goofy for a big man like that. His interveiws are awful as well and you can't understand crap he says with his unintelligible yelling. Ivan Koloff is easily the best Russsian interveiw. I really like the brief team of Jim Neidhart and Butch Reed, Jim's offense was sudden and explosive and I've always liked Butch's power moves even tho his brawling leaves something to be desired as his punches seem soft and he has this long wind up that bother me. I really like Krusher Kruschev here, much better version of Volkoff. Had the brute strength to display but also seemed like he had more snap to his moves and had better energy in his matches. Adrian Street is fun to watch if nothing else. Guys I coulda done without are Ernie Ladd, Sonny King, Master G and Brickhouse Brown. I love Buddy Landel's work here, very smooth and good ring physcology.

Then you are posting at fantasy land and maybe this place isn't for you because we actually watch the matches, we don't rely on rose-colored glasses and faded memories. I watch the matches as well but to be honest I'm all Mid South right now ansd I have to break from that to re watch Brody. I watched my Brody Disc last year and I remember still being impressed by him. If you guys can't handle a veiw point that disagrees with your small world then I don't know what to tell you but I don't go along just to get along. Dude, we have tons of threads here where people disagree and continue to disagree. We just want you to either stop posting as if your word is gospel or actually break shit down. Right now, you are speaking in platitudes and I am the king of platitudes. Give us some examples so we can see what you are seeing because after watching close to 100 Brody matches for the 80s project, we actually gave you specific examples of why we think he sucks. Dude I have admitted that I need to rewatch Brody, but me liking him has nothing to do with faded memories long gone by, I just watched this cat a year ago and in my recollection he was awesome. I will watch this guy again hopefully by the end of the weekend. I never said my word was Gospel, again quit emotionalizing the argument. Re read my posts as I admitted I can see where people think he is overrated but to say he was terrible is a huge stretch. Again stick to what I said not what you think I meant. For me he is top 20 but I understand if others don't rate him that way but to say he sucked is kinda a credibility loser. Best not to accuse others of emotionalizing things when you are claiming others have no credibility because they think one of your favorite fake fighters sucks. Especially when the people in question have watched as much or more of the guy in question in the last couple of years than anyone on the earth. I would like to hear your thoughts on those St. Louis matches though. I watched all the Brody v. Flair St. Louis matches about a month ago. The best of the bunch is an okay match. The other two are pretty mediocre by the standards of Flair matches from that period. Brody is over as hell in St. Louis and the matches benefit dramatically from that and even still I left feeling that Brody was one of Flair's worst opponents from the era that we multiple matches of footage from. I'm gonna start with Brody five disc Japan set first hopefully by the weekend. I'll watch the Checkerdome match right after.

Then you are posting at fantasy land and maybe this place isn't for you because we actually watch the matches, we don't rely on rose-colored glasses and faded memories. I watch the matches as well but to be honest I'm all Mid South right now ansd I have to break from that to re watch Brody. I watched my Brody Disc last year and I remember still being impressed by him. If you guys can't handle a veiw point that disagrees with your small world then I don't know what to tell you but I don't go along just to get along. Dude, we have tons of threads here where people disagree and continue to disagree. We just want you to either stop posting as if your word is gospel or actually break shit down. Right now, you are speaking in platitudes and I am the king of platitudes. Give us some examples so we can see what you are seeing because after watching close to 100 Brody matches for the 80s project, we actually gave you specific examples of why we think he sucks. Dude I have admitted that I need to rewatch Brody, but me liking him has nothing to do with faded memories long gone by, I just watched this cat a year ago and in my recollection he was awesome. I will watch this guy again hopefully by the end of the weekend. I never said my word was Gospel, again quit emotionalizing the argument. Re read my posts as I admitted I can see where people think he is overrated but to say he was terrible is a huge stretch. Again stick to what I said not what you think I meant. For me he is top 20 but I understand if others don't rate him that way but to say he sucked is kinda a credibility loser.

meant to say that a Wrestlers veiwpoint isn't the be all end all but it still does have weight behind it

Then you are posting at fantasy land and maybe this place isn't for you because we actually watch the matches, we don't rely on rose-colored glasses and faded memories. I watch the matches as well but to be honest I'm all Mid South right now ansd I have to break from that to re watch Brody. I watched my Brody Disc last year and I remember still being impressed by him. If you guys can't handle a veiw point that disagrees with your small world then I don't know what to tell you but I don't go along just to get along.

I understand that a Wrestlers veiwpoint is the be all end all but to say they don't matter at all is just plain ridiculous

I happened to have grown up in Texas during the peak of World Class and Brody was over... because he had a great look. It wasn't because he was a great worker because he left you empty back then just as he does now on videotape. You wished that you were given more than you were given. He didn't leave me wanting to see more Brody, he left me wishing someone else was in his place so the match would be better. Then you are posting at fantasy land and maybe this place isn't for you because we actually watch the matches, we don't rely on rose-colored glasses and faded memories. So you have an inherent bias against Mexican wrestlers and the cruisers. Nothing wrong with that but your disdain for the luchadores doesn't make Brody any better. Someone already said it... who are you going to believe "Some wrestler or your lying eyes?" If Brody's dropkick knocks you out. Cool. However, if you are going to call him a great mat worker, yo ugotta come with the specific examples because he is pretty much the definition of the drizzling shits on the mat. Oh I'll watch the matches and then break it down for you guys just need some time. Ric Flair St. louis match at the checker is one example. Another St. Louis match with a Blackwell run in is another.