King Solomon

No and none at all. Sorry but I'll take a Wrestler's opinion over a fans a lot of the time. They worked in the industry and breathed it. Their opinion carries more weight than a bunch of guys overanalyzing and overthinking the room on message boards. Can I ask what this means? I've read it from so many people so many time and it's always been really annoying. I've never understood what people meant by it. What are people overanalysing? The 'contrarian' point is just as annoying but I at least know what that means. Unless you were there time and place and I don't know who was or wasn't then you really have a limited understanding on why someone was over the way they were. Brody was adored in the late 70's -80's for a reason and that's beacuse he was a GREAT worker!! Point blank he was not your standard big man as he could go and had the endurance to do so on a consistent basis. Did he have bad matches? yes he did. Could he be overrated? yes I could see that based on the love he got back then. But does he suck? Only in a fantasy world where things are rewound over and over agian to fit a contrarian veiwpoint that some how has snowballed to enormous proportions to where it is utterly ridiculous. Brody had something that a lot of so called great in ring workers didn't and that's the "IT" factor and he had it in spades. I grew up watching all these Mexican jumping beans (btw I am Chicano) that were acrobactics but they had very little physical credibility and to me when I pay a ticket to watch wrestling I want to pay for a match that makes sense in a Kayfabe standpoint not two guys flipping, jumping and somersaulting their way all they way to the finish. This is why I never got in to the Tiger Mask-Dynamite matches. Brody had an aura that a lot of wrestlers today wish they had. He also could wrestle on the mat and he had vicious kicks. Too many guys have said that worked tight and stiff for me to buy into the theory that his offense sucked. He also had very good leaping ability, just look at his dropkicks.

No and none at all. Sorry but I'll take a Wrestler's opinion over a fans a lot of the time. They worked in the industry and breathed it. Their opinion carries more weight than a bunch of guys overanalyzing and overthinking the room on message boards. In football we call that Monday morning Qaurterbacking. There is a reason Color announcers are mostly former athletes rather than Joe Blow from the Internet Message Boards. This Brody bashing seems way too over the top to be taken seriously. I can see people saying he's overrated and I can deal with pointing out the flaws but I mean by hearing some on this board, Brody was a good for nothing Jabroni that wasn't worth crap. It seems as tho some of the hard core fans try to be contrarian for contrarian's sake and then go and rewrite history. If you don't like message boards or opinions you will read on them a good strategy is to not read them or post on them. A poor strategy is to argue that people talking on message boards are dumb assholes who know nothing about wrestling - while posting on a wrestling message board. I've watched the matches - Brody sucks. I want to like him, but it's really hard to like a guy who is so transparently poor. If this was pure revisionism there wouldn't be such a vast consensus on Brody sucking among people who have actually rewatched the matches recently, particularly among those of us who have radically different ideas about what does and doesn't make a good match. I don' think wrestler's opinions are irrelevant in the sense that I find them interesting. But I will NEVER say "boy I thought that match sucked cock, but Ric Flair said it was great so it must be true." "If you don't like message boards or opinions you will read on them a good strategy is to not read them or post on them. A poor strategy is to argue that people talking on message boards are dumb assholes who know nothing about wrestling - while posting on a wrestling message board. " Man you are a sensitive! I never said any of what you posted above! If your going to quote me, get your shit straight!

I think that's the thing is that everything needs to be taken in the contest of the time frame not measured by standards of other eras. To me like I said before Brody passed the eyeball test everywhere I saw him on t.v, whether the AWA, Montreal, Central States, World Class or Japan

Just watch his Japan stuff, stuff with Flair and Blackwell. I'll really have to get on the ball and watch my Brody best of to give you specifics. You do have your work cut out for you. I mean in last 4 years Will has watched probably all of what is on tape of Brody in Japan in the 80's. So you need to be specific. Not just blanket statement. I'm going to watch my 5 disc set. I have more Brody here in the States so I'll try to heck that out later

Just watch his Japan stuff, stuff with Flair and Blackwell. I'll really have to get on the ball and watch my Brody best of to give you specifics.

No and none at all. Sorry but I'll take a Wrestler's opinion over a fans a lot of the time. They worked in the industry and breathed it. Their opinion carries more weight than a bunch of guys overanalyzing and overthinking the room on message boards. In football we call that Monday morning Qaurterbacking. There is a reason Color announcers are mostly former athletes rather than Joe Blow from the Internet Message Boards. This Brody bashing seems way too over the top to be taken seriously. I can see people saying he's overrated and I can deal with pointing out the flaws but I mean by hearing some on this board, Brody was a good for nothing Jabroni that wasn't worth crap. It seems as tho some of the hard core fans try to be contrarian for contrarian's sake and then go and rewrite history.

Great show guys. I actually dig the tangents about 80's culture. Regarding Lyle Alzado, he was actully a pretty household name in the late 70's-Mid 80's as a DT/DE for the Orange Crush defense of the Denver Broncos hen they went to Superbowl 12 against Dallas. He also played for the Cardiac Brian Sipe led Cleveland Browns when they went to the playoffs in 1980. He was on the Superbowl champion Los Angeles Raiders team in 1983. He was known for having a real short temper and playing with a vicious mean streak. He also had some incidents off the field where his temper revealed itself. He later admitted to Steroid abuse and ended up getting brain cancer after his career was over. He blamed the steroids for the cancer. He even had a famous appearance on the Arsenio Hall show where he was all shriveled up and talked about his Steroid abuse. He ended up dying shortly after. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YEBnEDPAHE

Austin's little rapid fire punches from a mount really did look bad more often than not. They did not look as bad as the average Brody shot, let alone the average Brody "bump." Don't even get me started on when Brody had to eat offense from someone and he would do anything possible evade something bordering on contact. For what it's worth, guys in shoot interveiws say that Brody dished it out pretty hard and was able to take it in return

Duggan could also have some horrible looking clothes lines

Same goes for Steve Austin, weak clumsy looking brawling

I need some specefic matches from the Mid South set where Hacksaw's offense looked weak and clumsy. You'll get them, he had goofy offense. Even his football tackle finish looked weak compared to a Steve Williams

I found Duggan very entertaining in Mid South but his offense looks weak and clumsy compared to Brody

But why does one have to discount Brody just because Hansen is so good? Hansen is also one of my faves and I loved his AWA title reign. I appreciate the differences they have in their style. Again I'm going to watch Brody over the next couple of days just to freshen up on him.

Hey even the Bastions of serious wrestling journalism at PWI said he was a good scientific wrestler

I think Brody is terrible, but if people like him that's fine. Having said that I am not sure what you mean by mat wrestling. I've watched a lot of Brody over the years and don't recall him being an adept mat worker by any standard. Just watch a lot of his Japan stuuf and matches with Ric Flair in St. Louis. If you don't think he is an adept mat wrestler then I don't know what to tell you. I loved Brody in the 80's and still love him now. If you don't like Brody that's fine but to say he was terrible is a huge stretch of anyones imagination. I have saw too many good matches from him to even entertain any viewpint that he was terrible. His peers seem to hold his work in high regard. The one issue that some of his peers have with him was his atttitude at times. In a time when a lot of guys with heavily muscled bodies came on the scene, Brody was a big guy with great athleticism and had charisma that stood out unlike some of the muscle guys that came on the scene in the 80's. As it happens I just watched the Flair/Brody matches from St. Louis within the last couple of weeks. I actually don't hate the broadway, though I don't think it's a particularly interesting match and Brody doesn't do much in the way of matwork. Brody was easier to hide in tags and he was in some pretty good matches though I don't think I've ever seen a Brody match where I thought he was the best guy in the match. I'm actually a moderate on Brody relative to some on this board. I think he was terrible for any number of reasons (near refusal to bump or show any vulnerability ever, poor/inconsistent selling, horribly weak looking strikes for a guy who was supposedly a great brawler, low energy in the ring for a guy put over as a madman, et), but I'm not as down on him as goodhelmet. Possibly not as down on him as jdw either. I don't know I'm pretty sure there were matches when Brody showed vulnerability. For example, matches with Greg Gagne, Jimmy Snuka, Kamala, Ted Dibiase just off the top of my head

I think Brody is terrible, but if people like him that's fine. Having said that I am not sure what you mean by mat wrestling. I've watched a lot of Brody over the years and don't recall him being an adept mat worker by any standard. Just watch a lot of his Japan stuuf and matches with Ric Flair in St. Louis. If you don't think he is an adept mat wrestler then I don't know what to tell you. I loved Brody in the 80's and still love him now. If you don't like Brody that's fine but to say he was terrible is a huge stretch of anyones imagination. I have saw too many good matches from him to even entertain any viewpint that he was terrible. His peers seem to hold his work in high regard. The one issue that some of his peers have with him was his atttitude at times. In a time when a lot of guys with heavily muscled bodies came on the scene, Brody was a big guy with great athleticism and had charisma that stood out unlike some of the muscle guys that came on the scene in the 80's. Working on the 80s project for New Japan, All Japan and Texas, I have seen tons of Brody. Brody's biggest obstacle is that Stan Hansen was standing right there next to him and was better than Brody at every aspect of wrestling. What athleticism did Brody display? Running around the arena swinging a chain? No-selling offense from everyone except Giant Baba and Inoki (the guys writing the checks)? I agree with the charisma thing but only when it comes to appearance. You look at him and think "Shit is going to go down" and then you watch him wrestle and shrug your shoulders and shit never goes down. Also, this is a pet peeve of mine but I could give a shit what other wrestlers think of his work. They don't watch the TV. Maybe Jingus will be more sympathetic to this position. Sometime tomorrow, after the presents are unwrapped and the kids are calm, I'll sneak away and give some specific examples of Brody being horrible when watching the All Japan and New Japan footage. For me I do put stock in what other wrestlers say because obviously they are in the craft. I also put stock in my own opinions as well as others. If you don't think that Brody displayed athleticism then again I don't know what to tell you there. For me, he passes the eyeball test.

I have been all things Mid South the last year or so. I'm currently watching the 1984 season with the intent of going thru 1987. However I will take a breif respit from my Mid South DVD's and plop in my Best of Brody DVD Japan set which is five discs I believe. My goal is to view the whole set over the next two days as luckily I have a woman who loves to watch wrestling with me so I won't get any heat at home. I'll try to be objective as possible. From my memories Brody was awesome altho I'll admit the Abdullah matches suck.

I think Brody is terrible, but if people like him that's fine. Having said that I am not sure what you mean by mat wrestling. I've watched a lot of Brody over the years and don't recall him being an adept mat worker by any standard. Just watch a lot of his Japan stuuf and matches with Ric Flair in St. Louis. If you don't think he is an adept mat wrestler then I don't know what to tell you. I loved Brody in the 80's and still love him now. If you don't like Brody that's fine but to say he was terrible is a huge stretch of anyones imagination. I have saw too many good matches from him to even entertain any viewpint that he was terrible. His peers seem to hold his work in high regard. The one issue that some of his peers have with him was his atttitude at times. In a time when a lot of guys with heavily muscled bodies came on the scene, Brody was a big guy with great athleticism and had charisma that stood out unlike some of the muscle guys that came on the scene in the 80's.

My choice would be Brutus Beefcake the Barber years. I had no problem with him as the weaker link of the Dream team but not as a feature baby face

Yes Piper came back a shell of himself in terms of Charisma and heat. He seemed to be go on cruise control and came off corny rather than edgy.

I think they liked Brody's wild character, the aura of violence, the juice, etc. it became self fulfilling. The analogy that I always liked, which I think Frank came up with, was the Brody was the Undertaker of his era. That was tossed out back at a time when folks thought Taker was a gimmick and not really any good, so it was quite insulting for Brody Fans to have to hear. I think the irony might be that Taker at his best was better than Brody. John I guess I'm in the minority here. I loved Brody in Japan and also loved his matches with Blackwell, Flair, Gordy here in the states. I didn't like his matches with Abdullah. He had a great team with Hansen and Snuka. To me Brody had the perfect blend of brawling and mat wrestling. He also had a great aura. I'd say Brody is in my top five of favorite wrestlers.

To me Dick Murdoch is a close but no cigar guy. I haven't done any research to see how he was as a draw but from what I have seen of his work pretty entertaining in an unorthodox way. I would love to see more of his tag team with Dusty in the AWA days. I've only seen him in WWF, Mid South and Japan. I do like his tag team with Masked Superstar as they complimented each other well with their differences. I was over Murdoch by the time he was in Crockett land circa 87-88. His Captain Redneck persona went over very well in the Mid South area, sorta a precusor to a baby face Sgt. Slaughter in the WWF.

oops! here it is http://kayfabe-kayfabedreams.blogspot.com/

Here is my never updated blog

From what I heard Magnum was slated to win a an "I Quit' cage match from Nikita at Starrcade 86 getting the U.S. Title in the process. I think 87 wouldve been his year to get the NWA title. Imagine the buildup for that heading into Starrcade 87. I say hold the thing in Greensboro and make that the crowning moment of T.A.'S career. Nikita stays heel, Luger and Sting still rise up but T.A. is the top face with Sting getting the number 2 role. Luger coulda stayed heel where I feel he was better suited for.