El Boricua

Yeah, I thought he'd tie with Vader for being on the most ballots. Boricua, did you exclude the big All Japan guys because you haven't watched a lot of them or because you don't like the style? I touched on this in the podcast with Will that was lost to the void, but the short answer is that they were part of a group of wrestlers where I had not really watched much of them before the project and, when the time came to send in the ballot, I still was unsure of what my assessment on them was. So i made a decision about how i would construct my ballot. I'll post a longer explanation later in the "Things I learned about myself as a fan" thread.

That's something that caught my attention as well.

Considering the attrition rate my ballot has had throughout the entire reveal process, I'm surprised that the top three that are left were the top three on my ballot.

Same. In beginning my dives into Lucha and Joshi and rewatching a lot of All Japan and some New Japan I realized I knew enough to know that I didn't know enough to be happy with my own list. My list would have been more or less obsolete already as I have been continuing to watch Lucha this month. I could make cases for a hand full of wrestlers in each, but just not enough. If they remained full blind spots that would have been one thing, but I was too much in process of falling in love with some wrestlers and styles and not in enough to know what to do with them. You've just described my dilemma as I went to make my ballot. And in the end, I decided to go the goodhelmet route. For me, I felt more comfortable including those I had a good handle on, while those that I still hadn't formed a solid opinion on where left off. Basically, I was more comfortable committing sins of omission on my ballot than including someone i was unsure of simply because they've been talked about or have the reputation. I mean, how do I know if my evaluation is due to them being new to me or if because of the small sample I watched just happened to be them at their best or no best. So I made that decision for my ballot.

Same. I think I had the other 7 remaining guys all in my top 10 too. Fujinami, Bock & Casas are the 3 guys from my top 10 who've dropped already. Almost the same with me, except I had Santo in place of Casas in my top ten.

Pretty sneaky that Grimmas, making us think it was in alphabetical order. We're onto you and your sneaky ways.

I have 7 of the top ten on my ballot. The only ones not on my ballot are Misawa, Kobashi and Kawada.

Sorry for the somewhat off-topic post, but I see that there are some users viewing this thread who are not yet activated (their names appear in yellow font). If you are one of them and want your account activated, don't forget to follow the instructions in the Announcement sub-forum in order to get your account validated.

Both you and Dylan have touched upon one of the three things that have "irked" me about the results (although a more precise and honest term is disappointment due to my personal viewpoints). When El Hijo del Santo placed where he did, I suspected that Casas was going to drop soon after. Setting aside Rey Mysterio Jr. and Eddie Guerrero (whose roots are definitely lucha but whose resumes go beyond just their work in Mexico), no wrestler whose case is based on their career in Mexico made the top twenty. And, that's actually a plausible result. Lucha is a style that developed differently from the U.S style, being more theatrical and culturally based. Someone who's used to the U.S style or Japan heavyweights, watching lucha is a definite change from what they are used to. Not everybody will like it, and that's fine. After all, I'd say the majority of us watch wrestling for the entertainment, fun and emotional roller coaster it can provide, so trying to watch something that feels like chore makes one question why even bother with it. But in the abstract, and this goes in line with what Dylan was mentioning, it's hard to explain the results of the list to someone in general terms and not make it sound weird. A style that has had an established national company for more than 80 years, with the history and influence it has had across all of Latin America, has not produced a top twenty wrestler in all that time. Yet, three men who were direct contemporaries in Japan, who constantly wrestled with and against each other, are in the top twelve. And in the abstract it seems off, but if I'm being honest, it's a valid and explainable result when you dig into the context. Lucha is a style with it's pitfalls for entry if you are coming into it cold and the results reflect this. Ultimately, this list is a guide. For those that have no idea about the different styles, regions or wrestlers that are on it, the list represents an opportunity to maybe seek out something they had no idea was out there. For those that weren't able to get to certain styles, regions or wrestlers in their viewing, or who weren't able to probe deeply enough to their liking in order to form a personal opinion they were comfortable with (full disclosure, I fall into this group), the list represents a suggestion of maybe where to look at next. And for those who gave it a try and formed an opinion (either that they liked or didn't like what they were viewing), kudos for daring to go beyond your usual comfort zone and giving something else a try. Regardless of what your thoughts were, your opinion is part of the list and just as valid. Hopefully you'll continue giving other styles, regions and/or wrestlers a fair shot and maybe you'll find something new to you that speaks to you as well as what you are used to. Hopefully the last reveals will be just as fun as the process so far.

Once El Hijo del Santo dropped where he did, I wasn't expecting Casas to last much longer. Fujinami was my number 4, so a bit disappointed he didn't make the top ten. Still, he finished 58 in 2006, so that's a nice bump up.

I would be far more sympathetic to this argument if the top 25 wasn't shaping up to be filled with Japanese wrestlers who peaked before 2006. Heck, of all of the wrestlers yet to be listed, I think there's only 5 (maybe 6) where you can argue their active work since 2006 helps their case. Everybody else has not been active or their work since has almost no bearing (IMO) of their case for GWE. Akiyama, Bryan, Casas, Regal, Rey... Misawa's last run doesn't change him in where he is. Liger, just a little? Yeah, it's a small group. Those are the exact 5 I was thinking of, with Liger being the maybe.

I would be far more sympathetic to this argument if the top 25 wasn't shaping up to be filled with Japanese wrestlers who peaked before 2006. Heck, of all of the wrestlers yet to be listed, I think there's only 5 (maybe 6) where you can argue their active work since 2006 helps their case. Everybody else has not been active or their work since has almost no bearing (IMO) of their case for GWE.

Well, I can't either, and I'm sure his average vote will be lower than Santito's. But I really love Bobby Eaton. He was almost the perfect offensive wrestler, maybe the greatest tag wrestler of all time and a top-shelf in-ring heel. His skills were elite and his body of work fell behind only the best of the best. I'm pleased to see him climb so high and to me, he's an example of a "mainstream" choice that actually isn't that mainstream. I have no issue with Bobby and had him on my ballot. It just feels weird for me to see him finish so much higher than Dennis Condrey (199) and Stan Lane (260) when most of his case is made from teaming with those guys. Especially when those 2 guys were also part of great tag teams away from Bobby. It's not like I've ever watched a Midnight Express match and felt like Bobby Eaton was ten times better than his partner, it was a pretty equal pairing with both versions. Eaton proved he could work singles really well too. He had a nice singles run in WCW for a bit, and I personally haven't seen anything singles from Lane and Condrey to compare it to. He gets points for his punch, and seemed to be more innovative. I had Eaton high on my list. I agree that Eaton's singles run (where he won a singles title and actually got to main event a COTC challenging for the World title) works in his favor in separating him from Condrey and Lane (at least it did in my case).

I'm fearful he'll drop today the way things have been going.

What about now? ?#?#?#!?!??@?@!@#> This is only the third thing on the whole reveal process that has irked me, but man what a gut punch. Santo was my number 5.

I think he's registered but not yet activated (there's been a JDerbyshire who shows up in yellow font among the active users recently). I think there's probably 4-5 users who have registered because of the GWE project who are waiting to be activated.

Can't we just say that this list is neither niche or mainstream, it just is. Heading into the top 30 I have 22 of the wrestlers on my list still to show up.

I ranked him 42 so I think I win something. You've won the answer to life, the universe and everything.

I'm actually looking forward to seeing where the luchadores, Arn and Eaton end up.

You could probably add Dustin Rhodes to that list.

I'd have to think about how I'd order these five, but none of them were on my ballot.

Tough to argue you're anti-AJPW there. I'm just of the mindset that that crew is responsible for the best wrestling ever and ranked them accordingly, even if irrationally so. One thing I love about these podcasts is hearing the case for wrestlers I haven't seen enough of as it gives me some references for things to eventually watch. But you know its a good show when it makes me want to go back and watch the names I *am* familiar with and comfortably didn't rank, and that is the case here. Agree with this. Every time I listen to a chunk of the show, it leaves me excited to go watch some wrestling. Can't do better than that. The AJPW thing really didn't strike me as a big deal, because Dylan said most of the same stuff I'd say (did say) about those guys. He just ranked most of them lower. And I love pretty much everyone he ranked higher, so it's really just a matter of shuffling the same 20 or so wrestlers. At this level, the differences in order are razor thin margins of personal taste or valuation.

We'll see as the reveals continue, but the group that seems to have benefited is 80s JCP guys.

Sounds like Lawler isn't in the top 10 which means this list has no credibility. Sounds like the list will be Flair and nine guys who worked Japan.

You Lesnar voters need to take a moment of reflection over what you have wrought.