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El Boricua

DVDVR 80s Project
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  1. No need to apologize, Puerto Rico definitely falls into a bit of a gray area here. Just wanted to offer some other possibilities for the discussion. I'd agree that 87 to part of 88 is likely WWC's best argument, 89-90 is more based on the dearth of territories still successfully active. I actually think IWA PR is a sneaky good candidate for 01-02 considering where the other companies were then.
  2. WWC may figure somewhere in that 87 to 90 period. For 2001 onwards, the question becomes who is number two and three since WCW and ECW close. And for that period of 01 to 03/04, maybe even 05 (although by the latter part of this period I'd say it's more between TNA and ROH), I'd put IWA Puerto Rico as a candidate.
  3. There's a bit more Puerto Rico stuff that's popped up in the past couple of years.
  4. It's an interesting thought exercise to go over the results and take a guess on who would do better or worse based on what has transpired in the past years in terms of their work or in terms of the availability of more footage showing them in a different light. Oh, and how narratives and conversations regarding certain styles and eras have shifted since the voting was done.
  5. My issue with the Brock placement at the time (remembering that the voting occurred around Wrestlemania 32) is actually not a quality issue, it's a quantity or volume of work issue relative to many of the other wrestlers that are in the top 100 who can match the peaks and provide more quality volume as well. A top 50 placement was a bit too much for me considering how I weighed the different factors in play.
  6. There were three things that disappointed me about the results, only one of which was something I really disliked. That was Brock finishing in the top 50. Didn't agree nor understand why he placed so high, it's the only result as the countdown was happening where I had a genuine reaction of disgust at the result. The other two results that disappointed me a bit, more in the vein of it not happening although it was not unexpected, was not getting one Puerto Rican in the top 100 (it was close) and not having one mainly Mexico based luchador in the top 20 (Casas was at 22, although we did get Eddie and Rey up there). More than the list, for me the whole point of participating in the project was making an effort to check out wrestlers I was not that familiar with. If I were to do the list again, the only wrestler in my top 5 who likely sticks somewhere in there is Terry Funk.
  7. El Boricua

    International House of Combat

    Check the 80s set listing and the posts I did in the PR Wrestling megathread, between the two you should be able to get a list of the matches/angles involving Carlos and Abdullah that we have on tape. There's also a couple of things from the 90s floating around.
  8. El Boricua

    International House of Combat

    You're doing very well, no need to worry about being embarrassed. Interesting that the Colon vs. Abdullah match watched for this episode is their biggest drawing singles match but at the same time is probably the most atypical match they've had in their feud. We're coming into the feud near the end of April 1986, so the feud between Colon and Abdullah has been going on and off in Puerto Rico for about 8 years at this point. As you mentioned, they first faced off in different Canadian territories before Carlos moved back to Puerto Rico and co-founded Capital Sports Promotions. In fact, working in Canada is how he met Victor Jovica and how he met his wife Nancy who is Canadian. You can also tell by the wrestlers that worked those first years for CSP that they leaned on their Canadian ties for talent. Abdullah would eventually make his way into Puerto Rico and pulling together a timeline from things I’ve posted in the PR wrestling megathread and the history/context tidbits thread for the 80s set, here’s a summary of Carlos vs. Abdullah up to this point: 1978: Abdullah would debut in PR as one of Hugo Savinovich’s first clients and attacks Carlos to set up a feud. Abdullah would go on to win the PR title from Carlos on 11/18/78 and hold it for over eight months. Abdullah would not lose the title to Carlos, he would lose it to Pampero Firpo on 7/31/79 (both men were heels). 1979: Faced each other on June 2nd. Would wrestle against each other on Nov. 7 and 24, leading up to a No DQ match on Dec. 15. On 12/15/79, Abdullah would defeat Carlos again for the PR title (Carlos had won it from Firpo on 9/22/79). 1980: The year starts off with a series of matches over the PR title. The title is held up on Jan. 5 when the match (a barbed wire match) is a no contest. Carlos wins the rematch (a streetfight) on Jan. 12. They would have matches against each other on Feb. 23 and Mar. 8 (this one supposedly a cage match). Would face off again later that year on Sept. 27. They wrestled at the year-end show to determine who got a shot at the NWA World title at the first show of 1981. Carlos won that match. 1981: Carlos defeats Killer Karl Krupp for the held up North American title on May 9. Carlos now holds both the North American and Puerto Rico titles. Carlos and Abdullah face each other on June 13, which would lead to a match on Aug. 10 that saw Abdullah win the Puerto Rico and North American titles (I've also seen Aug.11 in Trinidad listed as the date of the NA title match). The feud would continue in a barbed wire match on Sept. 26, in a match where Carlos injured Abdullah's knee. Carlos would regain the Puerto Rico title in that match, but Abdullah remains the North American champion. Abdullah would then face Carlos in a stretcher match on 11/21/81. During the match, he attacked Carlos viciously, trying to injure his eye. This caused Carlos' brother Jose colon to come in to help his brother. Abdullah would attack Jose and this attack on a civilian would lead to him being stripped of the North American title. They then face off in a super libre match at the year end show. 1982: The 2/27/82 house show sees La Pareja Dinamica (Colon and Rivera) take on Los Monstruos (Abdullah and Stomper). This would be one of the last times La Pareja Dinamica would team up. Carlos would team up the following week with Pierre Martel to take on this heel team. The feud between Carlos Colon and Abdullah the Butcher reaches a breaking point and they wrestle each other in a cage match on 06/24/82 in Barbados and in a barbed wire loser leaves town match in Puerto Rico. Abdullah had previously ambushed Carlos during a match between Carlos and the Mongolian stomper. This attack put Carlos temporarily out of action and led to the loser leaves town match. Hugo Savinovich was to be locked in a cage to prevent him interfering. As the match approached the participants would be interviewed on the TV show. Hugo would be complaining about being caged like some type of animal. Later in the show Carlos provided his comments. However, as he was leaving the set Hugo surprised Carlos by throwing a net on him which allowed Abfdullah to sneak up on Carlos and just attack him with an object. As for the match, Carlos would win and banish Abdullah from Puerto Rico. Or so was thought. Abdullah the Butcher defeats Antonio Inoki to become the WWC World champion in Japan (allegedly). Because of his status as World champion, Hugo Savinovich uses this as a loophole to bring back Abdullah the Butcher to Puerto Rico not even a month after he had been banished. Carlos Colon is named the number one contender to the WWC World title and faces off against Abdullah. They have two matches where Carlos is unable to win the title due to Abdullah’s tactics. This leads to Carlos training extra hard and finally getting the victory in his third and final shot at the title on July 31. Carlos gave up the Puerto Rico title due to his World title win. Abdullah would bounce back by winning the Caribbean title from Charlie Cook on Aug. 14. He would hold it for almost five years. 1983: Feud continues on and off. At one point, Abdullah would attack one of Invader's brothers. Carlos, tired of Abdullah's abuses against other wrestlers, challenged Abdullah. Of course, Carlos and Abdullah would bring their feud to the mainland and wrestled on the Starrcade 83 card. They would also face off in PR near year's end on Dec. 4., which would lead to Carlos putting Hugo Savinovich on the shelf with an injury (and when he came back it set him on his path to turning face). Carlos ends the year defeating NWA World champ Ric Flair and thus crown himself the Universal champion. 1984:  It has been six years of a bloody rivalry between Carlos and Abdullah. However, events in 1984 would lead to an unexpected twist to this rivalry. n 1984, two new wrestlers entered WWC and left a wake of destruction. These men were Bruiser Brody and Stan Hansen. Each of them was a handful individually, but together they were nightmare for El Ejercito de la Justicia. Brody and Hansen would injure a few of the wrestlers and that includes Carlos. One of the Hansen vs. Colon matches ended when the ringside doctor jumped into the ring and covered Colon's body to stop the carnage. Faced with this unstoppable duo, Carlos did the unthinkable. He went to the one man who could stand toe to toe with Hansen and Brody in terms of violence and destruction. Carlos turned to Abdullah the Butcher, his blood enemy and rival. After a briefcase of money was offered, Abdullah agreed to team with Carlos and the resulting match at Aniversario 84 set the drawing record for a match in Puerto Rico wrestling history. The prevailing story for the initial team up was could Abdullah be trusted. To say this was a surprising development to the local fans would be an understatement. The two teams faced each other three times: A regular tag match that ended in a double DQ (at Aniversario 84), a lumberjack match that did not work in containing the two teams in the ring and finally a cage match contested in a 15 foot high ‘supercage’. Carlos won the supercage match for his team by escaping the cage, but this left Abdullah alone in the ring with Hansen and Brody and he took quite a beating from them. Carlos eventually was able to get back in and make the save, but Abdullah was not happy at all and attacked him. Sometime later, Carlos tried to smooth things over with Abdullah and it appeared to have worked. 1985: We move forward a year to 1985. Carlos had spent a good deal of 1985 feuding with Dory Funk Jr. over the Universal title. Dory defeated Carlos for the title on Feb. 27 in a rare instance of the Universal title being defended (and lost!) outside of Puerto Rico. Carlos and Dory would battle in singles matches and tag matches and the title would be held up after a match on May 18. Abdullah was surprisingly still a face through this time. Carlos would eventually regain the Universal title from Dory on June 15 in a ‘supercage’ match. Still, that didn’t stop them from facing each other in other matches afterwards. One of these matches saw Carlos team up once again with Abdullah. Now, Abdullah was no stranger to Dory, they had faced off previously in PR. So a tag match ended up taking place that summer pitting Carlos and Abdullah vs. Dory and Ric Flair. At one point during the match, Carlos tried to tag out but Abdullah kept refusing the tag. Eventually, Abdullah would storm off and leave Carlos by himself. The fall out of this betrayal led to Aniversario 85, where Carlos and Abdullah squared off for the Universal title. The match ends up as a no contest and the Universal title is held up. A rematch occurs on Oct. 19. The card was dubbed ‘La Batalla de Gladiadores’ (The Battle of the Gladiators), and it was a stacked card featuring JCP wrestlers in order to counter the WWF card held that same day in Hiram Bithorn Stadium (the one with the rainstorm). Carlos regained the belt that night. 1986: Abdullah would still not go away. Carlos would end up facing Abdullah on the Three King’s Day card to open 1986. The match ends with some confusion, as Abdullah gets the pin but the decision is overturned by the original referee.  Even though Carlos retained the title that day, it would not be that long before they crossed paths yet again. But this time they would not be alone. Around this time, Chicky Starr had turned rudo right at the very end of 1985, turning on his mentor Invader feeling that he was holding Chicky back. Along with wrestling he also became a manager and one of his first clients was Abdullah. Abdullah would help Chicky commit attacks against invader and Carlos, leading to Invader 1 taking on Abdullah the Butcher on March 1. For this encounter, Carlos Colon would serve as the special referee. Chicky is at ringside as Abdullah's manager. At one point in the match, Abdullah eventually manages to strike Invader in the throat. As Carlos checks on Invader, Chicky passes a foreign object to Abdullah. When Carlos goes towards Abdullah, he is attacked with a fork. Abdullah proceeds to attack both Carlos and Invader. Before Abdullah can do too much damage, the RPMs and Invader 3 arrive and fight off Abdullah. Chicky and Abdullah leave as the tecnicos check on Carlos and Invader 1. From there, Chicky would start feuding with Invader 3 over the Junior heavyweight title. He would also team up with Ron Starr (who had recently arrived billed as Chicky’s cousin) to face the Invaders in tag matches. Chicky would defeat Invader 3 for the Junior Heavyweight title on March 4 (although Invader 3 would regain it a few weeks later). The next day, March 5, the Starr Cousins would win the North American tag titles from the Invaders. Carlos and Abdullah would have another series of singles matches, including a match with two referees on April 5. During the match in ring ref gets taken out, so the second referee takes over officiating duties. As Carlos starts to put the figure four on Abdullah, Ron Starr tries to interfere. The referee stops him. While the referee is busy with Ron Starr, Abdullah takes control of the match. Invader 1 appears and climbs the turnbuckle. He surprises Abdullah with a top rope heart punch. Carlos then covers the fallen Abdullah and gets the win. After this match, two things occurred. The first is Chicky Starr would once again win the Junior heavyweight title from Invader 3 on April 12. The second is that the Starrs and Invaders would have a match on April 19 that would result in the North American tag titles being held up. So, with all of these feuds intertwined, a six man tag between Abdullah and the Starr Cousins and Carlos and the Invaders was signed for April 26. Which takes us to the first match in this episode. Carlos Colón and The Invaders vs. Abdullah The Butcher and Chicky Starr & Ron Starr - April 26, 1986 The teams are introduced, and they immediately start fighting. Hector Moyano comments that the tecnicos are looking to avenge all of the interference the rudos have done in the individual matches they have had. Eliud Gonzalez puts over these six men as the top wrestlers in Puerto Rico. Moyano comments that they all want Chicky to eat his words. ("He called Carlos a negrito, Invader 3 a dwarf and Invader 1 a pig.") This is a heated six-man tag with Invader 3 being the face in peril for a stretch. If you need to tell the Invaders apart, Invader 1 is taller than Invader 3 and has the hair peeking out from the back of the mask. And he is the one that punts Chicky right in the balls. Invader 3 you may remember as Johnny Rivera in the WWF, he’s the one that plays face in peril for the match. The match is at Hiram Bithorn Stadium, so you’re right about the stadium Kelly. To answer the talking point about culture and heritage, part of Chicky turning heel was him insulting and renouncing Puerto Rican culture and adopting a more pro American culture stance. So that comes into play a bit, that and the insults Chicky would hurl at the tecnicos. They definitely limited the interactions between Carlos and Abdullah here, likely keeping in mind the angle to come. What’s interesting is that they were not really building towards an extended run of matches between them as a result of the angle, I’ll explain when we get to the next match. Interesting you guys talked about the effects of how long the sleeper can leave someone knocked out. There’s an angle that takes place involving Carlos Colon in October of 86 (a couple of months after the Chicky match in this episode) involving the effects of not waking someone up. The substance thrown was said to be ammonia, one detail I love is the ref just covering his face selling the smell of the substance. So how did this paly out afterwards? You’re right in that this would put Carlos out of action and put his career in jeopardy due to being blinded by the ammonia. There actually is a video that surfaced about a month or so ago from an interview that aired the week after this match took place. You can see how it was presented. You can see Carlos completely bandaged and comatose in bed. Invader just breaking down and promising revenge on Abdullah for what he did. And the kid in the video is none other than the future Carlito. On TV Chicky would claim credit for masterminding the whole thing, so while Invader 1 would go after Abdullah, Invader 3 would go after Chicky. It’s during this time that the scaffold match between them takes place. As for Carlos, the fear was his career was over and that he’d have permanent blindness. Of course, eventually got better. And that leads us to our next match, ‘Venganza al Atardecer’. I’ll pop back in later with comments on the last two matches.
  9. El Boricua

    International House of Combat

    I've been meaning to get to these and seeing the subject of the latest episode no better time than now. I do see that in episode 3 you watched Colon vs. Murdoch from Puerto Rico, so I'll start with some comments about that. You're right on the details of when CSP (Capital Sports Promotions) started. Company was formed in September in 1973 but didn't run their first card until January 6, 1974. The owners were Carlos Colon, Victor Jovica and Gorilla Monsoon (although he likely joined the ownership later). Miguel Perez was the first top star while Carlos Colon made his name. This match is a few months into the feud, Hugo on commentary mentions the great rivalry that has been happening between them recently. Murdoch's character was one of dismissing and insulting Puerto Ricans and their culture. His manager is Joe Don Smith and the story was that Murdoch had found someone who renounced the 'disgusting' Puerto Rican culture and Murdoch gave his manager the good American name of Joe Don Smith. Interviews would revolve around Murdoch how he had Joe Don eating good food for change and dressing like a good American (hence the Dodgers getup Joe Don was wearing). It's 1991, so houses are not what they were some years before. Still, when not running baseball stadiums WWC typically would run at basketball arenas or gyms depending on the town To Steve's mention of Roberto Clemente Stadium, there is some confusion due to circumstances I'll explain, but the baseball stadium in San Juan is the one you're thinking of Kelly, which is Hiram Bithorn Stadium. Roberto Clemente Stadium, the baseball stadium in Carolina, opened in the year 2000, so has not seen too many wrestling events (although IWA did run some of their large shows there during their peak). The confusion comes from there also being a Roberto Clemente Coliseum in San Juan, which is right next door to Hiram Bithorn Stadium and where WWC also had events (the Colon vs. Hansen bullrope match took place at Roberto Clemente Coliseum). In fact, for big shows held at Hiram Bithorn, they would sometimes sell closed circuit viewing next door at the coliseum. Dick Murdoch was a semi regular in Puerto Rico from 1991 to 1992, although footage from these years isn't that readily available. Don't know if you had any other questions after watching the match, but let me know. I'll give a listen to the Colon vs. Abdullah episode.
  10. El Boricua

    WrestleMania 36

    Problem is that if you're not aware that these are his fears it's not something that will be picked up on by most people. There were also a lot of inside baseball allusions that work for those in the know but not for others that don't know or care about those things. So I can see why this can be more divisive than the Boneyard. My view is that this was different and entertaining at parts but not necessarily good. The highlight was still Titus' face after the segment.
  11. El Boricua

    WrestleMania 36

    I thought night 1 was great, with the Boneyard being the highlight. Night 2 started off with the really good Charlotte vs. Rhea match, but I felt it went down from there. In particular the Edge vs Orton match that just dragged on and on and felt like a live action Backstage Assault video game. I laughed at a few things in the Funhouse, but I wouldn't give it the praise I've seen others giving it. Legit the highlight of the whole thing was the look on Titus' face immediately after the Funhouse segment was over.
  12. El Boricua

    PWO Appreciation Thread

    I'd be remiss in not chiming in on an appreciation thread for PWO. This place has been a tremendous resource for expanding my wrestling knowledge and tastes. And while that wealth of knowledge and discussion drew my attention, it’s really the people that drew me in and make me come back time and time again. My fondness for this place always stems from the openness of discussing the merits of the different aspects of pro wrestling in a respectful manner whenever possible (sure there may rarely be a heated discussion once in a while, but for the most part it remains respectful), trying to see the different styles and wrestlers on their merits. As you know, I’m Puerto Rican. When I became a wrestling fan, I watched pretty much everything I had access to. So, I share the experience of growing up watching WWF, WCW, GWF and some odds and ends like many others online. But for this wrestling fan, one key difference is that I also grew up watching Puerto Rican wrestling. Obviously Capital Sports/WWC, but also AWF when it was around and IWA eventually when it started up. So my wrestling experience included watching wrestlers such as Carlos Colon, the Invaders, TNT, Chicky Starr, Ray Gonzalez, El Bronco and so many others. When finally got only right at the tail end of the 90s it was an interesting experience. Peeks behind the curtain, finding other fans expressing their opinions on the goings on in the shows and then discovering the world of tape trading. It opened an avenue to learn about current wrestling across the different countries, while also providing sources for learning about the different territories from just before I became a fan. Windows into a wrestling world with familiar faces and some yet to be discovered ones in what at times seemed like a surreal alternate reality with wrestler sin different roles than what I was used to seeing them as. It was different parts discovery, wonder and head scratching at what one would find and learn, leading to one just wanting to watch it all but not having the means to do all that one wanted to. We truly do live in blessed times for wrestling access. I would wander about different forums, enjoying the conversations but never really getting involved. I was reluctant to do so, and it was mainly due to one specific reason. At some point after getting online, I was curious to see what people thought about the wrestling I grew up with, the wrestling that featured those wrestlers from WWC. It wasn’t a pleasant experience. There wasn’t much discussion about that wrestling I grew up with. Well, there was, but it was basically a 90% a condemnation and insult train about the wrestlers, the territory and Puerto Rico itself. You all know why, it was due to what happened with Brody. It was impossible to start any discussion about Puerto Rican wrestling without it shortly devolving into outright dismissal and insults because of what happened to Brody. And anyone who tried to steer it away from that would get shouted down. I mean, when someone like Dick Steinborn basically was met with this when he tried to speak on his experience of working for Capital Sports and push back a bit on the rhetoric being thrown about, what chance would just a fan have. It was throwing the baby out with the bath water. So for the most part all you’d see was what felt like a constant stream of Brody hagiography and a contest to see who could come up with the most over the top insults about Puerto Rican wrestling and the island itself. “Lawless wilderness; They’re animals down there; Don’t drink the water; You’ll be gutted alive in the streets; No talent pieces of crap; Not worth pissing on.” You get the picture. To this day I feel that the opportunity to learn about the territory and possibly gain footage that is no longer around was lost due to this. So I just lurked, who needed the aggravation of being insulted and shouted down just for wanting to talk about Puerto Rican wrestling. That mindset still exists to this day if you know where to look (although I’ve gotten better at ignoring it though). It’s why the Brody stabbing and death remains a bit of a sore topic for me, because I can just feel myself bracing for some of the nonsense that will be spouted out. I lurked for many years. Eventually I would find myself lurking here at PWO and enjoying the topics of discussion and the podcasts that started springing out of the community. And then one day, something interesting happened. A thread popped up titled ‘Puerto Rico Wrestling’, started in January of 2013 by Dylan. With a title like that, the thread caught my interest. Within I saw something a bit unseal for me in my online experience. Here was someone deciding to watch and review matches from Puerto Rico and talking about them on their merits (whatever they may be). Not turning the discussion about condemning what happened to Brody, not a devolving into insults and violent outbursts about Puerto Rico, it was just talking about the wrestling. That was a change of pace from what I was used to. The thread went on for few pages, with others chiming in on the discussion and comments here and there trying to decipher some things that were happening or wondering what the context for certain things was. And I would read those comments and start thinking ‘no, they’ve got that wrong’ or ‘this tidbit of context would definitely help them understand this’. Eventually, it got to the point where I just had to say something. So, I created a profile with the name of that mysterious NWA tag title tournament representative El Boricua and, after jobbing to the captcha for a couple of days before finally registering (seriously, that captcha was/is? no joke), I made my first post. And off I went. It’s been seven years since that first post and, looking back, it’s been a joy and privilege to see where it has taken me. I helped introduce and clarify certain aspect of Puerto Rican wrestling to fellow fans. I helped with the 80s Puerto Rico set. I’ve been on a few podcasts talking wrestling (and hoping each time I didn’t drag the show down). Most important, through this I have met and spoken with people that I honestly can say I consider my friends, even though we have never met in person. To the point I created a Twitter account just to be able to have a way to stay in touch with some of these friends that have moved on from active message board life. Times change, and it saddens me sometimes how things have slowed down a bit on PWO from those days when I was lurking and started posting. There are many reasons for this, be it people moving on to Twitter due to feeling there’s a more immediate response, priorities and circumstance in our lives changing, or just that after so many years there have been so many topics that have already been discussed thoroughly. But I feel there is still a need for a place and community such as this one. Twitter doesn’t allow for nuance and it just lends itself to disposable conversations. Here right now, gone in the next second. I myself don’t post as much as I used to here. Hopefully I can change that a bit. To the people that have made PWO what it has been and continues to be, wherever you are, my thanks and appreciation for what this community is. It’s meant a lot to my wrestling fandom, but also for me personally it’s been a safe haven. I’ll try to do better in the future about posting.
  13. El Boricua

    WWE Royal Rumble 2020

    Really enjoyed the women's rumble, was rooting for Beth to pull off the win.
  14. Puerto Rico did have wrestling in the 1960s, although I don't know if any of that footage survives.
  15. El Boricua

    WWE Presents Crown Jewel: Halloween Pumpkin Spice Edition

    Apparently Cain was not one of the 20 on the charter flight, he actually remained behind with the others. I'm guessing Fury arrived and left separate from WWE, so it's still up in the air who else got a seat on the charter that left. If one of them was Rollins, I'm guessing his popularity in the locker room is going to continue to plummet.