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El Boricua

DVDVR 80s Project
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Everything posted by El Boricua

  1. El Boricua

    International House of Combat

    Check the 80s set listing and the posts I did in the PR Wrestling megathread, between the two you should be able to get a list of the matches/angles involving Carlos and Abdullah that we have on tape. There's also a couple of things from the 90s floating around.
  2. El Boricua

    International House of Combat

    You're doing very well, no need to worry about being embarrassed. Interesting that the Colon vs. Abdullah match watched for this episode is their biggest drawing singles match but at the same time is probably the most atypical match they've had in their feud. We're coming into the feud near the end of April 1986, so the feud between Colon and Abdullah has been going on and off in Puerto Rico for about 8 years at this point. As you mentioned, they first faced off in different Canadian territories before Carlos moved back to Puerto Rico and co-founded Capital Sports Promotions. In fact, working in Canada is how he met Victor Jovica and how he met his wife Nancy who is Canadian. You can also tell by the wrestlers that worked those first years for CSP that they leaned on their Canadian ties for talent. Abdullah would eventually make his way into Puerto Rico and pulling together a timeline from things I’ve posted in the PR wrestling megathread and the history/context tidbits thread for the 80s set, here’s a summary of Carlos vs. Abdullah up to this point: 1978: Abdullah would debut in PR as one of Hugo Savinovich’s first clients and attacks Carlos to set up a feud. Abdullah would go on to win the PR title from Carlos on 11/18/78 and hold it for over eight months. Abdullah would not lose the title to Carlos, he would lose it to Pampero Firpo on 7/31/79 (both men were heels). 1979: Faced each other on June 2nd. Would wrestle against each other on Nov. 7 and 24, leading up to a No DQ match on Dec. 15. On 12/15/79, Abdullah would defeat Carlos again for the PR title (Carlos had won it from Firpo on 9/22/79). 1980: The year starts off with a series of matches over the PR title. The title is held up on Jan. 5 when the match (a barbed wire match) is a no contest. Carlos wins the rematch (a streetfight) on Jan. 12. They would have matches against each other on Feb. 23 and Mar. 8 (this one supposedly a cage match). Would face off again later that year on Sept. 27. They wrestled at the year-end show to determine who got a shot at the NWA World title at the first show of 1981. Carlos won that match. 1981: Carlos defeats Killer Karl Krupp for the held up North American title on May 9. Carlos now holds both the North American and Puerto Rico titles. Carlos and Abdullah face each other on June 13, which would lead to a match on Aug. 10 that saw Abdullah win the Puerto Rico and North American titles (I've also seen Aug.11 in Trinidad listed as the date of the NA title match). The feud would continue in a barbed wire match on Sept. 26, in a match where Carlos injured Abdullah's knee. Carlos would regain the Puerto Rico title in that match, but Abdullah remains the North American champion. Abdullah would then face Carlos in a stretcher match on 11/21/81. During the match, he attacked Carlos viciously, trying to injure his eye. This caused Carlos' brother Jose colon to come in to help his brother. Abdullah would attack Jose and this attack on a civilian would lead to him being stripped of the North American title. They then face off in a super libre match at the year end show. 1982: The 2/27/82 house show sees La Pareja Dinamica (Colon and Rivera) take on Los Monstruos (Abdullah and Stomper). This would be one of the last times La Pareja Dinamica would team up. Carlos would team up the following week with Pierre Martel to take on this heel team. The feud between Carlos Colon and Abdullah the Butcher reaches a breaking point and they wrestle each other in a cage match on 06/24/82 in Barbados and in a barbed wire loser leaves town match in Puerto Rico. Abdullah had previously ambushed Carlos during a match between Carlos and the Mongolian stomper. This attack put Carlos temporarily out of action and led to the loser leaves town match. Hugo Savinovich was to be locked in a cage to prevent him interfering. As the match approached the participants would be interviewed on the TV show. Hugo would be complaining about being caged like some type of animal. Later in the show Carlos provided his comments. However, as he was leaving the set Hugo surprised Carlos by throwing a net on him which allowed Abfdullah to sneak up on Carlos and just attack him with an object. As for the match, Carlos would win and banish Abdullah from Puerto Rico. Or so was thought. Abdullah the Butcher defeats Antonio Inoki to become the WWC World champion in Japan (allegedly). Because of his status as World champion, Hugo Savinovich uses this as a loophole to bring back Abdullah the Butcher to Puerto Rico not even a month after he had been banished. Carlos Colon is named the number one contender to the WWC World title and faces off against Abdullah. They have two matches where Carlos is unable to win the title due to Abdullah’s tactics. This leads to Carlos training extra hard and finally getting the victory in his third and final shot at the title on July 31. Carlos gave up the Puerto Rico title due to his World title win. Abdullah would bounce back by winning the Caribbean title from Charlie Cook on Aug. 14. He would hold it for almost five years. 1983: Feud continues on and off. At one point, Abdullah would attack one of Invader's brothers. Carlos, tired of Abdullah's abuses against other wrestlers, challenged Abdullah. Of course, Carlos and Abdullah would bring their feud to the mainland and wrestled on the Starrcade 83 card. They would also face off in PR near year's end on Dec. 4., which would lead to Carlos putting Hugo Savinovich on the shelf with an injury (and when he came back it set him on his path to turning face). Carlos ends the year defeating NWA World champ Ric Flair and thus crown himself the Universal champion. 1984:  It has been six years of a bloody rivalry between Carlos and Abdullah. However, events in 1984 would lead to an unexpected twist to this rivalry. n 1984, two new wrestlers entered WWC and left a wake of destruction. These men were Bruiser Brody and Stan Hansen. Each of them was a handful individually, but together they were nightmare for El Ejercito de la Justicia. Brody and Hansen would injure a few of the wrestlers and that includes Carlos. One of the Hansen vs. Colon matches ended when the ringside doctor jumped into the ring and covered Colon's body to stop the carnage. Faced with this unstoppable duo, Carlos did the unthinkable. He went to the one man who could stand toe to toe with Hansen and Brody in terms of violence and destruction. Carlos turned to Abdullah the Butcher, his blood enemy and rival. After a briefcase of money was offered, Abdullah agreed to team with Carlos and the resulting match at Aniversario 84 set the drawing record for a match in Puerto Rico wrestling history. The prevailing story for the initial team up was could Abdullah be trusted. To say this was a surprising development to the local fans would be an understatement. The two teams faced each other three times: A regular tag match that ended in a double DQ (at Aniversario 84), a lumberjack match that did not work in containing the two teams in the ring and finally a cage match contested in a 15 foot high ‘supercage’. Carlos won the supercage match for his team by escaping the cage, but this left Abdullah alone in the ring with Hansen and Brody and he took quite a beating from them. Carlos eventually was able to get back in and make the save, but Abdullah was not happy at all and attacked him. Sometime later, Carlos tried to smooth things over with Abdullah and it appeared to have worked. 1985: We move forward a year to 1985. Carlos had spent a good deal of 1985 feuding with Dory Funk Jr. over the Universal title. Dory defeated Carlos for the title on Feb. 27 in a rare instance of the Universal title being defended (and lost!) outside of Puerto Rico. Carlos and Dory would battle in singles matches and tag matches and the title would be held up after a match on May 18. Abdullah was surprisingly still a face through this time. Carlos would eventually regain the Universal title from Dory on June 15 in a ‘supercage’ match. Still, that didn’t stop them from facing each other in other matches afterwards. One of these matches saw Carlos team up once again with Abdullah. Now, Abdullah was no stranger to Dory, they had faced off previously in PR. So a tag match ended up taking place that summer pitting Carlos and Abdullah vs. Dory and Ric Flair. At one point during the match, Carlos tried to tag out but Abdullah kept refusing the tag. Eventually, Abdullah would storm off and leave Carlos by himself. The fall out of this betrayal led to Aniversario 85, where Carlos and Abdullah squared off for the Universal title. The match ends up as a no contest and the Universal title is held up. A rematch occurs on Oct. 19. The card was dubbed ‘La Batalla de Gladiadores’ (The Battle of the Gladiators), and it was a stacked card featuring JCP wrestlers in order to counter the WWF card held that same day in Hiram Bithorn Stadium (the one with the rainstorm). Carlos regained the belt that night. 1986: Abdullah would still not go away. Carlos would end up facing Abdullah on the Three King’s Day card to open 1986. The match ends with some confusion, as Abdullah gets the pin but the decision is overturned by the original referee.  Even though Carlos retained the title that day, it would not be that long before they crossed paths yet again. But this time they would not be alone. Around this time, Chicky Starr had turned rudo right at the very end of 1985, turning on his mentor Invader feeling that he was holding Chicky back. Along with wrestling he also became a manager and one of his first clients was Abdullah. Abdullah would help Chicky commit attacks against invader and Carlos, leading to Invader 1 taking on Abdullah the Butcher on March 1. For this encounter, Carlos Colon would serve as the special referee. Chicky is at ringside as Abdullah's manager. At one point in the match, Abdullah eventually manages to strike Invader in the throat. As Carlos checks on Invader, Chicky passes a foreign object to Abdullah. When Carlos goes towards Abdullah, he is attacked with a fork. Abdullah proceeds to attack both Carlos and Invader. Before Abdullah can do too much damage, the RPMs and Invader 3 arrive and fight off Abdullah. Chicky and Abdullah leave as the tecnicos check on Carlos and Invader 1. From there, Chicky would start feuding with Invader 3 over the Junior heavyweight title. He would also team up with Ron Starr (who had recently arrived billed as Chicky’s cousin) to face the Invaders in tag matches. Chicky would defeat Invader 3 for the Junior Heavyweight title on March 4 (although Invader 3 would regain it a few weeks later). The next day, March 5, the Starr Cousins would win the North American tag titles from the Invaders. Carlos and Abdullah would have another series of singles matches, including a match with two referees on April 5. During the match in ring ref gets taken out, so the second referee takes over officiating duties. As Carlos starts to put the figure four on Abdullah, Ron Starr tries to interfere. The referee stops him. While the referee is busy with Ron Starr, Abdullah takes control of the match. Invader 1 appears and climbs the turnbuckle. He surprises Abdullah with a top rope heart punch. Carlos then covers the fallen Abdullah and gets the win. After this match, two things occurred. The first is Chicky Starr would once again win the Junior heavyweight title from Invader 3 on April 12. The second is that the Starrs and Invaders would have a match on April 19 that would result in the North American tag titles being held up. So, with all of these feuds intertwined, a six man tag between Abdullah and the Starr Cousins and Carlos and the Invaders was signed for April 26. Which takes us to the first match in this episode. Carlos Colón and The Invaders vs. Abdullah The Butcher and Chicky Starr & Ron Starr - April 26, 1986 The teams are introduced, and they immediately start fighting. Hector Moyano comments that the tecnicos are looking to avenge all of the interference the rudos have done in the individual matches they have had. Eliud Gonzalez puts over these six men as the top wrestlers in Puerto Rico. Moyano comments that they all want Chicky to eat his words. ("He called Carlos a negrito, Invader 3 a dwarf and Invader 1 a pig.") This is a heated six-man tag with Invader 3 being the face in peril for a stretch. If you need to tell the Invaders apart, Invader 1 is taller than Invader 3 and has the hair peeking out from the back of the mask. And he is the one that punts Chicky right in the balls. Invader 3 you may remember as Johnny Rivera in the WWF, he’s the one that plays face in peril for the match. The match is at Hiram Bithorn Stadium, so you’re right about the stadium Kelly. To answer the talking point about culture and heritage, part of Chicky turning heel was him insulting and renouncing Puerto Rican culture and adopting a more pro American culture stance. So that comes into play a bit, that and the insults Chicky would hurl at the tecnicos. They definitely limited the interactions between Carlos and Abdullah here, likely keeping in mind the angle to come. What’s interesting is that they were not really building towards an extended run of matches between them as a result of the angle, I’ll explain when we get to the next match. Interesting you guys talked about the effects of how long the sleeper can leave someone knocked out. There’s an angle that takes place involving Carlos Colon in October of 86 (a couple of months after the Chicky match in this episode) involving the effects of not waking someone up. The substance thrown was said to be ammonia, one detail I love is the ref just covering his face selling the smell of the substance. So how did this paly out afterwards? You’re right in that this would put Carlos out of action and put his career in jeopardy due to being blinded by the ammonia. There actually is a video that surfaced about a month or so ago from an interview that aired the week after this match took place. You can see how it was presented. You can see Carlos completely bandaged and comatose in bed. Invader just breaking down and promising revenge on Abdullah for what he did. And the kid in the video is none other than the future Carlito. On TV Chicky would claim credit for masterminding the whole thing, so while Invader 1 would go after Abdullah, Invader 3 would go after Chicky. It’s during this time that the scaffold match between them takes place. As for Carlos, the fear was his career was over and that he’d have permanent blindness. Of course, eventually got better. And that leads us to our next match, ‘Venganza al Atardecer’. I’ll pop back in later with comments on the last two matches.
  3. El Boricua

    International House of Combat

    I've been meaning to get to these and seeing the subject of the latest episode no better time than now. I do see that in episode 3 you watched Colon vs. Murdoch from Puerto Rico, so I'll start with some comments about that. You're right on the details of when CSP (Capital Sports Promotions) started. Company was formed in September in 1973 but didn't run their first card until January 6, 1974. The owners were Carlos Colon, Victor Jovica and Gorilla Monsoon (although he likely joined the ownership later). Miguel Perez was the first top star while Carlos Colon made his name. This match is a few months into the feud, Hugo on commentary mentions the great rivalry that has been happening between them recently. Murdoch's character was one of dismissing and insulting Puerto Ricans and their culture. His manager is Joe Don Smith and the story was that Murdoch had found someone who renounced the 'disgusting' Puerto Rican culture and Murdoch gave his manager the good American name of Joe Don Smith. Interviews would revolve around Murdoch how he had Joe Don eating good food for change and dressing like a good American (hence the Dodgers getup Joe Don was wearing). It's 1991, so houses are not what they were some years before. Still, when not running baseball stadiums WWC typically would run at basketball arenas or gyms depending on the town To Steve's mention of Roberto Clemente Stadium, there is some confusion due to circumstances I'll explain, but the baseball stadium in San Juan is the one you're thinking of Kelly, which is Hiram Bithorn Stadium. Roberto Clemente Stadium, the baseball stadium in Carolina, opened in the year 2000, so has not seen too many wrestling events (although IWA did run some of their large shows there during their peak). The confusion comes from there also being a Roberto Clemente Coliseum in San Juan, which is right next door to Hiram Bithorn Stadium and where WWC also had events (the Colon vs. Hansen bullrope match took place at Roberto Clemente Coliseum). In fact, for big shows held at Hiram Bithorn, they would sometimes sell closed circuit viewing next door at the coliseum. Dick Murdoch was a semi regular in Puerto Rico from 1991 to 1992, although footage from these years isn't that readily available. Don't know if you had any other questions after watching the match, but let me know. I'll give a listen to the Colon vs. Abdullah episode.
  4. Ron & Chicky Starr vs. Mark & Chris Youngblood (6/1/88)
  5. Los Invaders (I & II) vs. Chicky Starr & Ron Starr (5/25/88)
  6. El Boricua

    WrestleMania 36

    Problem is that if you're not aware that these are his fears it's not something that will be picked up on by most people. There were also a lot of inside baseball allusions that work for those in the know but not for others that don't know or care about those things. So I can see why this can be more divisive than the Boneyard. My view is that this was different and entertaining at parts but not necessarily good. The highlight was still Titus' face after the segment.
  7. El Boricua

    WrestleMania 36

    I thought night 1 was great, with the Boneyard being the highlight. Night 2 started off with the really good Charlotte vs. Rhea match, but I felt it went down from there. In particular the Edge vs Orton match that just dragged on and on and felt like a live action Backstage Assault video game. I laughed at a few things in the Funhouse, but I wouldn't give it the praise I've seen others giving it. Legit the highlight of the whole thing was the look on Titus' face immediately after the Funhouse segment was over.
  8. El Boricua

    PWO Appreciation Thread

    I'd be remiss in not chiming in on an appreciation thread for PWO. This place has been a tremendous resource for expanding my wrestling knowledge and tastes. And while that wealth of knowledge and discussion drew my attention, it’s really the people that drew me in and make me come back time and time again. My fondness for this place always stems from the openness of discussing the merits of the different aspects of pro wrestling in a respectful manner whenever possible (sure there may rarely be a heated discussion once in a while, but for the most part it remains respectful), trying to see the different styles and wrestlers on their merits. As you know, I’m Puerto Rican. When I became a wrestling fan, I watched pretty much everything I had access to. So, I share the experience of growing up watching WWF, WCW, GWF and some odds and ends like many others online. But for this wrestling fan, one key difference is that I also grew up watching Puerto Rican wrestling. Obviously Capital Sports/WWC, but also AWF when it was around and IWA eventually when it started up. So my wrestling experience included watching wrestlers such as Carlos Colon, the Invaders, TNT, Chicky Starr, Ray Gonzalez, El Bronco and so many others. When finally got only right at the tail end of the 90s it was an interesting experience. Peeks behind the curtain, finding other fans expressing their opinions on the goings on in the shows and then discovering the world of tape trading. It opened an avenue to learn about current wrestling across the different countries, while also providing sources for learning about the different territories from just before I became a fan. Windows into a wrestling world with familiar faces and some yet to be discovered ones in what at times seemed like a surreal alternate reality with wrestler sin different roles than what I was used to seeing them as. It was different parts discovery, wonder and head scratching at what one would find and learn, leading to one just wanting to watch it all but not having the means to do all that one wanted to. We truly do live in blessed times for wrestling access. I would wander about different forums, enjoying the conversations but never really getting involved. I was reluctant to do so, and it was mainly due to one specific reason. At some point after getting online, I was curious to see what people thought about the wrestling I grew up with, the wrestling that featured those wrestlers from WWC. It wasn’t a pleasant experience. There wasn’t much discussion about that wrestling I grew up with. Well, there was, but it was basically a 90% a condemnation and insult train about the wrestlers, the territory and Puerto Rico itself. You all know why, it was due to what happened with Brody. It was impossible to start any discussion about Puerto Rican wrestling without it shortly devolving into outright dismissal and insults because of what happened to Brody. And anyone who tried to steer it away from that would get shouted down. I mean, when someone like Dick Steinborn basically was met with this when he tried to speak on his experience of working for Capital Sports and push back a bit on the rhetoric being thrown about, what chance would just a fan have. It was throwing the baby out with the bath water. So for the most part all you’d see was what felt like a constant stream of Brody hagiography and a contest to see who could come up with the most over the top insults about Puerto Rican wrestling and the island itself. “Lawless wilderness; They’re animals down there; Don’t drink the water; You’ll be gutted alive in the streets; No talent pieces of crap; Not worth pissing on.” You get the picture. To this day I feel that the opportunity to learn about the territory and possibly gain footage that is no longer around was lost due to this. So I just lurked, who needed the aggravation of being insulted and shouted down just for wanting to talk about Puerto Rican wrestling. That mindset still exists to this day if you know where to look (although I’ve gotten better at ignoring it though). It’s why the Brody stabbing and death remains a bit of a sore topic for me, because I can just feel myself bracing for some of the nonsense that will be spouted out. I lurked for many years. Eventually I would find myself lurking here at PWO and enjoying the topics of discussion and the podcasts that started springing out of the community. And then one day, something interesting happened. A thread popped up titled ‘Puerto Rico Wrestling’, started in January of 2013 by Dylan. With a title like that, the thread caught my interest. Within I saw something a bit unseal for me in my online experience. Here was someone deciding to watch and review matches from Puerto Rico and talking about them on their merits (whatever they may be). Not turning the discussion about condemning what happened to Brody, not a devolving into insults and violent outbursts about Puerto Rico, it was just talking about the wrestling. That was a change of pace from what I was used to. The thread went on for few pages, with others chiming in on the discussion and comments here and there trying to decipher some things that were happening or wondering what the context for certain things was. And I would read those comments and start thinking ‘no, they’ve got that wrong’ or ‘this tidbit of context would definitely help them understand this’. Eventually, it got to the point where I just had to say something. So, I created a profile with the name of that mysterious NWA tag title tournament representative El Boricua and, after jobbing to the captcha for a couple of days before finally registering (seriously, that captcha was/is? no joke), I made my first post. And off I went. It’s been seven years since that first post and, looking back, it’s been a joy and privilege to see where it has taken me. I helped introduce and clarify certain aspect of Puerto Rican wrestling to fellow fans. I helped with the 80s Puerto Rico set. I’ve been on a few podcasts talking wrestling (and hoping each time I didn’t drag the show down). Most important, through this I have met and spoken with people that I honestly can say I consider my friends, even though we have never met in person. To the point I created a Twitter account just to be able to have a way to stay in touch with some of these friends that have moved on from active message board life. Times change, and it saddens me sometimes how things have slowed down a bit on PWO from those days when I was lurking and started posting. There are many reasons for this, be it people moving on to Twitter due to feeling there’s a more immediate response, priorities and circumstance in our lives changing, or just that after so many years there have been so many topics that have already been discussed thoroughly. But I feel there is still a need for a place and community such as this one. Twitter doesn’t allow for nuance and it just lends itself to disposable conversations. Here right now, gone in the next second. I myself don’t post as much as I used to here. Hopefully I can change that a bit. To the people that have made PWO what it has been and continues to be, wherever you are, my thanks and appreciation for what this community is. It’s meant a lot to my wrestling fandom, but also for me personally it’s been a safe haven. I’ll try to do better in the future about posting.
  9. El Boricua

    WWE Royal Rumble 2020

    Really enjoyed the women's rumble, was rooting for Beth to pull off the win.
  10. Puerto Rico did have wrestling in the 1960s, although I don't know if any of that footage survives.
  11. El Boricua

    WWE Presents Crown Jewel: Halloween Pumpkin Spice Edition

    Apparently Cain was not one of the 20 on the charter flight, he actually remained behind with the others. I'm guessing Fury arrived and left separate from WWE, so it's still up in the air who else got a seat on the charter that left. If one of them was Rollins, I'm guessing his popularity in the locker room is going to continue to plummet.
  12. El Boricua

    WWE Presents Crown Jewel: Halloween Pumpkin Spice Edition

    Atlas Air also probably wants to keep their business in KSA. So it's also not out of the realm of possibility of themgoing along with the explanation just to maintain their business status quo. What's interesting is that the wrestlers that were stranded have not really said anything that would indicate it was a normal malfunction issue.
  13. El Boricua

    WWE Presents Crown Jewel: Halloween Pumpkin Spice Edition

    One potential wrinkle from all this is the possibility of suspecting that the stock sell-offs various WWE executives did in the summer could be stemming from the Saudis apparently not paying them. If that's something that turns out to have legs, oh man...
  14. El Boricua

    WWE Presents Crown Jewel: Halloween Pumpkin Spice Edition

    I think Flair and Hogan were on a different flight, Meltzer at one point tweeted that Flair had arrived to Florida sometime yesterday afternoon and I think Hogan was on that flight. Vince and Dunn appear to have left on Vince's private jet, but no word if someone else flew with them. Brock and Heyman of course left on Brock's private jet and made it to Smackdown. The word going around was 12 wrestlers and 8 key production people were the ones on the second charter. It's likely the wrestlers advertised to appear on Smackdown before it was known that the plane wouldn't make it on time. So the guesses are Reigns, Bray, Corbin, New Day, Revival. Kofi tweeted last night about landing in the USA, so that confirms he was on that flight. WWE tweeted a video of Cesaro from when the plane was refueling in Ireland, so he also was on the flight. I've also heard possibly Nakamura and Lashley, with Lashley being a weird one since he's on Raw. Not sure who the others are.
  15. El Boricua

    WWE TV 10/28 - 11/03 - 1 Year went by so fast!

    Exactly what I was thinking. If I were Fox I wouldn't be happy about this at all.
  16. El Boricua

    WWF TV Shows 1970s to early 1990s (pre-Raw)

    Decided to read this thread (nice to see you around Parv) and came across the mafia tangent... Adding a bit to that tangent: Specifically the question as to why would Miguel Perez Jr. and Savio Vega be there at the funeral, it's likely due to the personal relationships involved. Two scenarios come to mind (neither necessarily having to do with mafia ties) and it could be a combination of both: Miguel Perez Sr. was Antonino Rocca's tag partner and a mainstay in New York for several years. He also was a key player of CSP/WWC for the first ten years of it's existence, so it's likely that Perez Sr. and Monsoon knew each other well. So it's possible Perez Jr. may have also gotten to know Monsoon because of this or he may have gone on behalf of his father. Savio likely accompanied his friend/travel buddy, or... They both went because they were close with Victor Quiñones, who was apparently Monsoon's godson. To be honest, I think "shady shit" pretty much applies to most wrestling promoters (I know what you're alluding to specifically with Colon, but don't want to derail the discussion going there). Monsoon did not have his stake when he died, although I don't know exactly when he sold or transferred it. My guess is probably by the late 80s and likely was the stake Victor Quiñones would say he had in CSP. By 1995 or 1996 Jovica and Colon would declare bankruptcy for CSP and reincorporate as WWC which would have negated any CSP ownership stakes from other parties. Never had heard the % of the stake before, wondering if you remember where you read this (just to know the reference source). I've always heard (and could be mistaken) that Brody got blackballed because he ran afoul of Monsoon, either because of a fight they had and/or taking liberties with his guys (one of which was Jose Gonzalez who was not listed in your rundown of Puerto Ricans with a lengthy stint in the territory). Considering Monsoon's position in the territory, not the person to piss off. Although Puerto Ricans being a fixture in New York probably goes back all the way to Miguel Perez Sr. and the huge migration of Puerto Ricans to New York in the 50s making it a desirable demographic to appeal to. After all, wasn't West Side Story basically Italians vs. Puerto Ricans.
  17. El Boricua

    Dark Side of the Ring: Viceland docu-series

    The show is well put together and does a great job in getting across the emotional and human elements of these stories.And, although in several cases there isn't really too much new information presented, the target audience isn't really people knowledgeable about the subject, these are more for people not really aware about the topics presented. But this sentence reminds me of something I've noticed about the comments made across the Internet about the different episodes and how good or terrible they are. It seems to me that, for the most part, what determines whether someone finds the episode to be good or not as good is related to how easily they can spot the misinformation or BS being passed off in the stories told by those being interviewed. It's most prevalent for the Montreal episode, a subject that has been covered so many times and more in-depth elsewhere that it's easier for people to spot when something isn't correct. To a lesser extent, I've seen some comments about the Von Erichs were some issue is taken with how certain things are presented. Makes me wonder about what information in the topics I'm not familiar with falls into this area. Also gives some pause when you realize there are people not familiar with these topics who will just take everything presented as the face value truth.
  18. El Boricua

    Dark Side of the Ring: Viceland docu-series

    Completely agree with both your points. That just underscores that you can't take any one account at full face value. Especially when, even if there are good reasons for it occurring, there are things that are verifiably incorrect included in the accounts. That doesn't invalidate everything else in the account, but it is a reminder that one should be more wary in just accepting as is every detail given by any account. And also agree with this. It's those consistencies across different people's accounts that are likely to be more credible (well, as long as there wasn't an agreement beforehand about what story to tell). That, and it's important to place the accounts into the proper context both in place and time. All that said, it is important to remember (and I say this mostly as a reminder to myself), that the discussion of what may have happened doesn't change the end result of what occurred and the effect it has had and continues to have on the people that it impacted directly. A man died in a senseless and violent act, and it's something that can't be condoned. That is ultimately what matters, even if I am getting tired of both the extreme hagiography and extreme condemnation that tends to envelop any discussion of this horrible incident.
  19. El Boricua

    Dark Side of the Ring: Viceland docu-series

    That part was one I found over the top and absolutely felt like it was played up for the cameras for the reasons you mention. To be fair, Atlas has been consistent on several elements throughout his different accounts through the years (or as Bix notes the gist of his version has been the same) and these elements tend to be consistent with other people's account of what happened. But consistent doesn't necessarily equate with accurate or reliable, particularly when one part of his account is clearly and verifiably false. This may be due to Atlas conflating something that happened at a different time or something that he added at some point to the telling that he's retold so many times that he believes it to be true, but knowing that he's been mentioning this since the 2005 Mooneyham interview (at least to my knowledge or what I've been able to find, I don't think he had included this detail in his account before) and that it is just flat out wrong does give me pause in taking everything at face value. The parts that line up with other people's accounts are more credible to me, but it's a little harder for me on the parts that are just from his account (particularly with the polishing up throughout the years). If you watch or read his accounts throughout the years (at least since he stopped not wanting to talk about it), he does have a tendency to polish up the account as the years have passed with details he doesn't mention before (here it is the banging on the operating room doors, before this in more recent accounts it's the spending the night on the beach which he mentions here as well). As with all accounts, it's those inconsistencies that make it hard to wade through everything and know what's true, what's speculation and what's just bull. An example is the whole Abdullah calling the meeting part. Atlas has for years said Abdullah called the meeting, and I don't know if this is the first time someone actually asked Abdullah about it, but Abdullah says he didn't. Most people are saying Abdullah is lying or full of it, but I actually believe Abdullah may be telling the truth. Why would he call the meting if he owns a stake in the territory and is good friends with Carlos? The only reason that makes sense would be for damage control, but I don't think he'd be spearheading any meeting that results in going to the cops. Also, both Abdullah and Barbara Goodish state that they encountered each other in the airport. How does that timeline work if he's calling for and is at that meeting but also leaving town and runs into Barbara at the airport? And Dutch in his 2000 written account does say there was a meeting that afternoon and he lists the people that were there. Abdullah isn't one of them. But since Atlas has been claiming this for years, it's believed Abdullah is lying now even though I'm not sure if anyone has asked Abdullah before about calling the meeting (and if you take Dutch's account into consideration, that one would back up Abdullah not being at the meeting). That is significant. I think the popular suspect has been Jim Cornette, but I guess we'll finally find out.
  20. El Boricua

    Dark Side of the Ring: Viceland docu-series

    The Gino Hernandez episode is the one that interests me the most. Gave the Brody one a watch, absolutely no new information in it. Weirdly, I actually thought Abdullah was being genuine for the most part. Dutch continues to be Sgt. Schultz about the whole situation, and there's always some details about Atlas' more recent versions of what happened that make me not take at face value everything he says. There's some other stuff out there in Spanish beyond what Savio says and/or speculates on (by his own account he was last on the scene after the whole fracas went down), which doesn't line up entirely with Savio's account (but then again, no versions line up with each other be it in English, Spanish or whatever other language). Hard not to be cynical when the people talking only really started doing so once the get paid to do shoots era started. Still, this remains a horrible incident and there will never be a straight answer of what happened.
  21. El Boricua

    Place to Be Podcast Thread

    I'm a bit behind on the shows but just wanted to comment on the 89 rumble show. You know who I think would have made a good winner instead of Studd (and I know it's a bit in hindsight)? Brutus Beefcake should have won it. I'm being completetly serious. Considering how they positioned and used him going forward, this could have been a good start to that push to the next level.
  22. Miguel Perez Jr. vs. Super Black Ninja (Hair vs. Hair) (5/21/88)
  23. Chris & Mark Youngblood & Rock N Roll Express vs. Bobby Jaggers, Dan Kroffat, Kendo Nagasaki & Mr. Pogo (5/21/88)
  24. Super Black Ninja vs. Invader I (Street Fight) (4/2/88)
  25. El Boricua

    Steel Cage Battle Royal (March 1988)

    Steel Cage Battle Royal (March 1988)
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