El Boricua

Funny you should mention this, Carlos wrestled under the name Carlos Belafonte when he was wrestling in Canada during the early 70's.

No, but I don't think he would have been able to come back anyway if Brody had not died. He had last appeared nearly two years before in 86 and CSP were no longer NWA members in 87. By 88 he was locked in with JCP and would not have made appearances for a non NWA member. The closest he got was coming in for Carlos Colon's retirement show in 08. His appearance was nixed by WWE and he ended up sending a video message congratulating Colon where he spent half the time talking about the post show partying they used to do (with Carlos looking half embarrassed, probably hoping Flair wouldn't get him in hot water with his wife). I got the impression that if it had been up to Flair he would have come back just for that. Come to think of it, I'm not sure if Dory Funk Jr. ever came back to wrestle, but he still sent some of his students over here. Giant Warrior and Nitron were referred to Carlos Colon by Dory.

Yeah, as far as I know Hansen never came back. Bobby Jaggers stayed til the end of 88 but I don't think he came back after either. Everyone else came back, some within months. Again, I've always been amazed at how certain wrestlers accounts are taken at face value. If ever there was a situation for people to cover their butts, this was it.

OK, I found the card results. They are from a blurb in one of the 92 Observers. Here it is as written in the Observer: The AWF's big show called "The Event" at Sixto Escobar Stadium in San Juan on 6/6 drew a $19,000 house Jose Luis Rivera beat King Kong (Awesome Kong aka Dwayne McCullough) via DQ, Dr. Terror beat Super Medico #4 in a loser must retire match, Galan Mendoza beat Gino Paoli in a bloody coal miner's glove match, Invader #4 (Maelo Huertas) beat The Wizard in a match where the loser had to be thrown into a pool filled with pig food, television announcer Hugo Savinovich beat a bloody Billy Joe Travis, Chicky Starr beat Barrabas in a double juice dog collarmatch, Butch Reed beat Manny Fernandez via DQ, Tony Atlas pinned Chris Adams to retain the North American title after hitting him with a gimmick, Sadistic Steve Strong (Steve DiSalvo) went to a DDQ with The Barbarian (Sionne Vailahi), TNT pinned Hurricane Castillo Jr. in a ring surrounded by fire match to win the Americas title, Hercules Ayala beat Crash the Eliminator to win the AWF title when Steve Strong distracted Crash in a double juice barbed wire match and after the match Strong attacked Ayala as well. The final match on the card was supposed to be Solid Gold (Jose & Julio Estrada) defending the AWF tag team titles against Tom Brandi & Ray Gonzales with Brandi & Gonzales winning the straps. Solid Gold had a money dispute at the last minute and held up the promotion which didn't give in, literally as their music was playing. So instead of Solid Gold coming out they had Crash, Strong and Barabbas come out and they did a five minute brawl which was the wildest action on the entire show.

I'm reasonably sure that the 23,000 number would be for the Bayamon portion of the show in Juan Ramon Loubriel Stadium. Quite a few places list the show as occurring from Bayamon without noting that it was from three separate locations (like WrestleMania 2). Other places I've seen list it as 23,000 for Bayamon, and around 9,500 at each of the other two sites (Ponce and Mayaguez). Heck, Wikipedia lists the show as being only from Bayamon with an attendance of 11,000 and that doesn't pass the smell test (it's more likely they are listing the attendance of one of the other two towns but stating that the event was from Bayamon). I can't 100% confirm if those are the actual numbers though. For this event, they basically went one step further from 86, where they held the event in three days in three different cities. Here they held it one day in three different cities. The Ponce part of the show was held at Coliseo Pachin Vicens (the same place as the first day of Aniversario 86) and was headlined by the Carlos Colon vs. Hercules Ayala barbed wire title match. The Mayaguez portion was held in El Palacio de Recreacion y Deportes (should be the same venue as the Hugo vs. Profe loser is painted yellow match) and was headlined by TNT vs. Mr. Pogo. For reference, here is the full card: One thing, the Sheepherders couldn't make it and instead the Fantastics faced Buddy Roberts and Iceman Parsons. You'll notice they announce the three headlining matches first. Of course, although the Colon vs. Ayala match is mentioned first in the ad, it's telling that Invader vs. Chicky was the one chosen to headline the largest location of the three being run. Colon vs. Ayala was at the second largest location, TNT vs. Pogo the third. Business never boomed back to how it was during the glory days of the 80's, but most local fans would put that period from 99-05 as a sort of revival due to the IWA/WWC rivalry. To someone who watched as a fan, the period was definitely stronger than what had been the 90's, but I can't say to what extent in terms of attendance and ratings. Of the two, it was IWA that was hotter. It's amazing to think about, but if you had told many fans in 2003 that only one promotion would be left standing in 2013, everyone would have said of course. If you had then said that it would be WWC, people would have thought you were a complete loon. Funny how things work out. From what I've heard, ASWF did well at the beginning and was even out drawing WWC for shows. ASWF had Chicky Starr, Hercules Ayala, Jose Luis Rivera and Barrabas as the well-known locals at the start, but then they raided WWC's roster (it was easy to do since the roster was disgruntled over lack of pushes and/or back pay delays). They ended up getting Hugo Savinovich (who has said in interviews that he left because he was tired of broken promises, they owed him $14,500 of back pay), TNT, Huracan Castillo, all of the Super Medicos, Invader 4 and a young Ray Gonzalez. WWC was left with Carlos Colon, Invader 1, Miguel Perez, Bronco, and Ricky Santana among the regulars (not counting guys like Abdullah). WWC then resorted to doing a Carlos Colon vs. Invader 1 feud which which did very well for them. ASW started having problems due to a combination of bloated payroll (more wrestlers than WWC), wrestlers starting to demand for more money, some people in charge started trying to stack things in their favor and the financial backer eventually backed out. The first notable problems for ASW were when they ran their big card in the summer of 92, when Solid Gold (the Estradas in Conquistadors garb) held the promotion up for more money right as they were supposed to head out to the ring for the final match of the night. From there they jumped back to WWC and things started unraveling bit by bit for ASWF from there until they closed sometime in 1993. Hugo Savinovich said in an interview that he heard that they were supposedly 1.5 million in the red when they closed. I have the card lineup for that show somewhere on another computer. I’ll post it later when I can track it down so you can get an idea of who was in ASWF at the time.

Wow, quite a few things to reply to. Going in order: With regards to Barrabas, the story I’ve heard is that he was the first notable turn and heel manager. In terms of matches, the only one I know that features a younger Barrabas is the El Santo/Carlos Colon vs. El Rebelde Loco/Barrabas from the movie En Santo en Oro Negro: La noche de San Juan. What hurts his profile in terms of being remembered for his contributions by certain groups of fans is that he had long stretches where he was out of the mainstream fed locally (he did stuff on the independents). The first absence in the 70’s was supposedly due to “legal problems” he had. He would come back around 82 and stick around to about 85. When Barrabas resurfaced with All Star Wrestling in 91, I had no clue who he was since I had started watching after his last notable run with Capitol Sports. Although to be fair, his absence from the late 80’s until 91 may have been in part because of his injuries from the Dupont Plaza fire. From what I’ve been able to gather, the Capitol Sports TV show was shown in other countries in the Caribbean, Central and South America. Not sure of which ones, but there supposedly was coverage there. Hugo on commentary would sometimes during some matches send greetings to the fans from the different countries where the show aired (ex. There’s an Invader 3 match where Hugo sends greetings to the viewers in Colombia). The program also supposedly aired in the New Jersey /New York area. But again, Latin America is a region where knowledge is vague about what happened in terms of wrestling. With Hugo, there is likely the impression that he’s basically a Spanish Jim Ross based on his tenure at the Spanish announce table. In terms of negatives I have a hard time thinking of them. Maybe that he didn’t do much as a wrestler, but his run as a wrestler is really before my time as a fan and he supposedly had a couple of hot runs in the Dominican Republic against Jack Veneno. Honestly, his run as top heel manager is before my time as a regular viewer, I basically first knew Hugo as the fan friendly host on TV. It was a WTF moment for me when I found out that Hugo used to manage Abdullah (may have actually been via the Starrcade 83 match how I found this out). Just remember that Hugo’s career is divided into the phases, the top heel manager and then the TV host/everything that went with it. Both were of immense importance to CSP. And if you were to utter the phrase Atangana! to people around here, they’ll likely know who you’re alluding to. Chicky was all over the shows, it’s not an exaggeration to say he anchored the heel side of things during the late 80’s. Quick correction to Aniversario 87, the event was held simultaneously in three cities, so there were three billed main events (one for each city), but the two that were pushed more heavily were the Invader 1 vs. Chicky Starr (Retirement vs. Hair) and Carlos Colon vs. Hercules Ayala (Universal title, barbed wire, figure 4 vs. figure 4). The third match was TNT vs. Mr. Pogo which was TNT’s big coming out party as a face. Overall, I’d agree Chicky is definitely a strong enough guy to at least put up for discussion in the "Other" region. Of course you can use this information. Who knows, it may (hopefully) bring someone out of the woodwork with more info and context. Attendance figures and/or card results are difficult to find. There are likely some local historians that may have some information about this. The person I’ve heard mentioned that may know is Manuel Gonzalez (he wrote many of the blurbs in the WWC territory section of Kayfabe Memories). Unfortunately, I don’t know where to contact him or of someone else that could know. You’re right that TNT is not necessarily a strong candidate, but deserves some digging. I know he was super over, but I can’t tell you how that translated at the box office. He became the top star of ASW when he jumped, but again, I don’t know what that means in terms of drawing. His involvement in that hot run the IWA had from 00 to about 05-06 could also be a point in his favor. And if you’re looking at longevity, TNT was finally brought back after 22 years to WWC and won the Universal title last week. I sometimes wonder if TNT’s career (and also Miguel Perez Jr. and Huracan Castillo Jr.) was hampered a bit by being here when Brody died. The key to the Sheepherders is to look at their 1985 run. My impression is that they were the top heels that year (basically feuded with the Invaders while Carlos was busy with dory Funk Jr.). Someone with more knowledge is needed to provide details and context. They had a few short runs after that too, but 1985 is the key one I think. One detail about Carlos Colon, he would sometimes do shots in Africa (another area were we know almost nothing about). Not sure with what frequency and when he stopped doing them. About the Aniversario numbers, I can’t say for sure although it sounds credible to me knowing how locals are with regards to these events and, particularly, the mess they can cause parking for these events. I also wouldn’t be surprised if their decision to hold more than one day of Aniversario events in 1986 was due lost ticket sales due to the limits imposed. According to a special produced in 1987 for that year’s Aniversario show, they mentioned the following: Anviersario 83, the first one, was a huge 14 match card that took place from Hiram Bithorn Stadium with an attendance of 36,000. They had to turn away 8,000 people at the gate and there were cars parked up to 3 to 4 miles away because there was not enough room at the stadium lot. Keep in mind that Hiram Bithorn Stadium is part of a complex that also has Roberto Clemente Coliseum and another smaller venue (Coliseo Pedrin Zorrilla). You know, I think it’s easier to show you: https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&amp...73a779999a3b7f8 The map is centered on Coliseo Pedrin Zorrilla, but scroll up until you have Hiram Bithorn Stadium, Roberto Clemente Coliseum, road 23 (Roosevelt Ave.) and the buildings on the other side of street 23. You’ll notice that Hiram Bithorn Stadium is right by the expressway entrance and exit for Roosevelt Ave. Across the street from Hiram Bithorn Stadium is Plaza Las Americas, the largest shopping mall in Puerto Rico (and which had way, way less parking facilities at the time). Continuing to the left, you have the National Guard armory. Beside that is the U.S. Post Office. And after that, the building tagged as Insular Government Number Two, that’s actually police headquarters. The entrance and exits to the complex are located on Roosevelt Ave., with a much smaller entrance and exit at the other end (further down from Coliseo Pedrin Zorrilla), which feeds into an immediate expressway entrance and exit and is right by a hospital. Just imagine the nightmare traffic jam the full parking lot and people parking in the street would have caused considering everything that’s right in that vicinity. Considering all this, it’s quite credible to me that they had limits imposed. For the 1984 event (again according to the 1987 special), due to the traffic and overcrowding problems of the previous year, WWC was allowed to only sell 25,000 tickets due to police and fire department restrictions. The 1985 event once again was only allowed to have 25,000 tickets sold. For 1986, the decision was made to expand the Aniversario event from one day to three and hold it in three different cities. Ponce, Mayaguez and San Juan would play host to the Aniversario 86 event.

Well here's the delayed reply. Sorry if the following post is a bit rambling. I'll tackle the command of English question first. Honestly, I would say only a minority have a good command of English. A larger segment may understand English to varying degrees, but it's a low proportion that I would say have a good command of English in terms of speaking and writing, particularly outside of the major metropolitan areas. There is also the phenomenon that there is Spanglish and a bit of adopting and incorporating English words into the everyday Spanish spoken here that's cropped up in recent years. Before getting to Hugo and Chicky, there are a few details of how Capitol Sports Promotions (CSP) would present their shows that I should mention. The dynamic was usually faces (for the most part native Puerto Ricans, with some foreign allies sprinkled in) against invading foreigners. That was more or less the basic formula from the start of the promotion. What's interesting is that native Puerto Ricans were usually not heels. Those that were, were almost always under a mask and billed of unspecified origin (ex. Invader when he first appeared, The Medicos, etc.). Rosters would be small, around 10-14 wrestlers who worked the house shows (with some additional jobbers for TV). You're only consistent roster members were those that had established residence in Puerto Rico (be it native or foreigner). With the semi regular churn of foreigners who did not speak Spanish, two roles were very important for the TV shows: Show host/presenter/interviewer and the heel manager. In the case of the show host, the role included: - Be the constant presence, the glue of the TV show broadcast - Inform fans of events and news and hype them (think Event Center or Update with Mean Gene) - Conducted interviews and would translate where needed - Usually doubled as announcer for big shows - Was the voiceover person for the house show card ads Basically, think of Lance Russell in Memphis and you get the idea of the role. The one additional detail is that the show host was also typically the show's producer during this time. For example, Rickin Sanchez's production company was in charge of the show and he served the role of host (he's the man in glasses you see conduct those desk interviews with the wrestlers about upcoming cards in the 82-83 shows). The other important role is that of the heel manager. This person would basically serve as the anchor for the heel side, since the heel side usually featured foreigners who would come in for a run and then leave (although a few would come back with some regularity). These heel managers were usually active or semi-active wrestlers, and because of the small roster size they were called upon to get in the ring on a somewhat regular basis to fill out the cards. Basically, the heel manager would: - Provide the promotion with a stable heel anchor and provide a sense of continuity to the heel side - Serve to help introduce the newcomers to the territory by hyping them up when they arrived ('this is my new weapon to take out so and so'), which allowed them to gain instant heat or feuds due to being aligned with said manager. (Ex. Jason arriving as Chicky's new hired gun to take out his hated rival Invader 1) - Serve as the mouthpiece for the heels or translate for those that did their interviews if needed - When the heels are only coming in for a couple of dates per month, the heel manager is the one that has to keep the feud alive either via promos or getting in the ring. (Ex. Chicky when Hansen was not around during the Colon/Hansen feud) - If a heel left abruptly, the heel manager could easily pick up the feud and have the heat put on him (Ex. When Manny Fernandez left soon after Invader 3's injury, credit for masterminding the attack was taken by Chicky to continue the feud). As far as I'm aware, the first wrestler to also serve as heel manager was El Rayo de Bayamon. He was originally a lower card face who turned on Miguel Perez Sr. during a tag match. Afterwards, during an interview where he was denouncing the betrayal, Perez exclaimed that El Rayo was nothing more than a Barrabas (clearly a mix up, I presume he meant a Judas but said that name instead). El Rayo adopted that as his name, and he served as the first notable heel manager (while still wrestling) for Capitol Sports. Barrabas would lose a hair vs. hair match vs. Miguel Perez which led to him adopting his trademark bald head and facial hair look. Barrabas would serve in this role for a couple of years before leaving the company due to some legal problems. He would return around 82-83. With this background and context, we'll move on to Hugo and Chicky. First we'll talk about Hugo Savinovich. Hugo first arrived to CSP in 1978, after wrestling for Arturo Mendoza's promotion on the west coast of the island. He would have been 19 years old. When the heads of the promotion heard Hugo's mic skills, it was decided to make him a heel manager. His first two charges were Kendo Kimura and Hiro Sasaki. This highlights the role the heel manager had of being both the mouthpiece and getting across the storyline points for the heels who didn't speak. His third charge would be none another than a debuting Abdullah the Butcher. It is well known that the Carlos Colon and Abdullah the Butcher feud is what really pushed the promotion forward in the late 70's and from there onwards. What gets forgotten is that Hugo was a key player in this feud, since he was Abdullah's manager. He was the one who antagonized the crowd, cut the interviews and pushed the madness that was Abdullah. From 78 through 83, Hugo was one who would bring in Abdullah, whom he called 'mi monstro, mi maquina' ('my monster, my machine') whenever he was attacked or injured by a face to avenge him. To give an idea of how important Hugo was during those years as a manager, here is a list of wrestlers he managed: Kendo Kimura , Hiro Sasaki, Abdullah the Butcher, The Medics (Jose Estrada , Johnny Rodz & Don Kent), The Fabulous Kangaroos, Mr. Fuji, Toru Tanaka, Mr. Pogo, Mitsu Ishikawa, Haru Sonoda, Tamba, King Tonga, Gorilla Monsoon, Buddy Landell, The Mongolian Stomper, Ox Baker, Bob Sweetan, Dory Funk Jr, Terry Funk, Kendo Nagasaki, The Sheik, Bruiser Brody & los Pastores(The Sheepherders: Luke Williams, Butch Miller & Jonathan Boyd who was billed as Jonny Miller). Many of these names were the top rivals of Carlos Colon, the Invaders, Jose Luis Rivera and their allies during those years. Basically, any heel that was to be positioned at the top of the card was usually paired with Hugo. During the early 80's, Hugo also served as the English commentator for the shows that were sent to air in Trinidad & Tobago, Barbados and the Virgin Islands (places where CSP held shows). In late 83, they ran an angle where Hugo was injured by Carlos Colon. By his time, Barrabas had returned to the promotion and was serving as a manager. While Hugo was out injured, he entrusted his wrestlers to Barrabas so that he could manage their affairs while he was gone. When Hugo returned, Barrabas had hijacked all of his wrestlers, including Abdullah. This started a feud between Hugo and Barrabas which turned Hugo face. By late 1984, he became the TV show presenter when a disagreement between Rickin Sanchez and Capitol Sports resulted in Sanchez leaving and his production company no longer produce the show. Thus from 84-91, Hugo assumed the role of TV show host/presenter/interviewer/commentator and also became the behind the scenes producer of the show. In interviews Hugo has mentioned that he is very proud of Aniversario 87, an event he was the producer of and had the complication of occurring at three different locations at the same time. He even donned the tights during this period a couple of times to face off against Eric Embry, El Profe and Billy Joe Travis. Hugo would go to the newly formed AWF in late 91, where he would serve the same roles he had for CSP. A lot of local fans point to Hugo leaving CSP as one of the clear signs of its decline in presentation. The AWF would do well initially, but would eventually collapse due to a bloated payroll and the financial backer dropping out. From there, Hugo would make his way to the WWF and would eventually serve as the Spanish commentator for many years. He would also be involved with the IWA during it's first few years in Puerto Rico, but was not heavily involved after the first couple of years. With Hugo transitioned to the TV host role, other managers were brought in, but none of them lasted too long. Barrabas himself left sometime in 1985. Throughout 85 you had a different dynamic with the top heels. The Sheepherders had a flag bearer, Abdullah was accompanied by someone from JCP (ex. JJ Dillon at Aniversario 85), Eric Embry had Sasha as a valet, but there was no focal heel manager. That would change in 1986 when Chicky Starr stepped into the role. Chicky was different from the previous heel manager anchors. For one, he remained a full time active wrestler. He also happened to be the first prominent local in a very long time to go heel. At first, Chicky was not a manager. But after a month and half of feuding with Invader 1, he was offered the role . Ron Starr would be brought in to team with him and Chicky also became Abdullah's manager. Thus began his Sports Club stable. Another thing that made Chicky unique was that he was given a Piper's Pit style segment called Chicky Starr's Sport Shop and he would also have periods where he would serve as a commentator, all while remaining an active wrestler and manager. Chicky was given the top heels to manage and to serve as their translators or as the promo man / hype man for those that were incoming or not around full time. He also was credited as he mastermind behind several schemes, thus helping keep the heat from feuds going even as wrestlers cycled in and out on the heel side and also serving as the catalyst for some heel turns. In the fall of 1986 El Profe would be introduced along with TNT to help take some of the load of Chicky (he was already managing Ron Starr, Bruiser Brody before he turned on him, Abdullah the Butcher after Brody turned, Jason the Terrible and Stan Hansen in addition to wrestling and hosting the Sports Shop segment and to have someone manage the tag teams and mid carders. El Profe would increase in prominence by adding the Ninja Express to his stable, with Chicky and he teaming up for a few schemes throughout that time. Chicky was also the manager of two of the top heels of the late 80's, Hercules Ayala and Steve Strong. When Iron Sheik was brought in for a short run against Carlos Colon, he was put with Chicky. In 1990, Chicky would leave the company and would eventually help establish ASW. When that went under, he would resurface a few years alter in WWC, rekindling the feud with Invader 1 and once again being a prominent presence on the heel side. Any questions or details that need clearing up from this hopefully coherent post?

This is a great post. As someone who is going through all the Puerto Rico footage, with the benefit of a good guide in Boricua, it seems obvious to me that Invader is at worst a pretty good HoF candidate. I get why Dave says he could never put him on the ballot for essentially political reasons (though as noted before that strikes me as a tacit admission that he's easily a good enough candidate to put on the ballot), but this is a ballot with a guy who is very likely responsible for the death of his girlfriend, a death that was allegedly covered up by an HoF promoter. This is an HoF where a guy who killed a kid as part of a vicious training culture is in, and got in in a year when a similar scandal involving him (absent death this time) broke again. The sad reality is that Invader can't get on the ballot because even though any honest assessment of the situation would note that it is at least possible that the murder he committed was self defense, he killed a "star" and worse yet he did it on Puerto Rican soil and "you know how those people are" (that is an almost verbatim quote from an HoF voter talking about the details surrounding the trial). If he had killed a woman or a trainee, he'd have been on the ballot years ago. This was touched on earlier in the thread, but watching the PR, I think Loss second point is definitely true. There are certain niche's that were promoted, talked up, represented very well (maybe too well in some cases as has been discussed in this thread as well) in the HoF, but then you look at Mexico and there is no trio unit in. The Duseks were in via fiat which is fine, but the Birds being the first trio voted in seems really nuts when you think about it. Fuck a Mexican trio has never even been tested on the ballot. Sticking with PR you have a guy like Hugo who was a manager of note for years, produced the tv and was an announcer and Dave doesn't even think he's worth mentioning as a theoretical candidate in the HoF issue this year. You've got Jovica, who I wouldn't necessarily argue for, but he had some massively impressive numbers for a promoter. You've got Chicky Starr who was basically Jimmy Hart, if Jimmy Hart had to also wrestle (often in good or even great matches), while getting over new talent and angles, except in Chicky's case half or more of his charges didn't even speak the common language in the area (worth noting that Starr was in the main event v. Invader of the second highest drawing show on Earth in 1987 behind only Mania III). You've got TNT which was an enduring believable gimmick, a guy who got over elsewhere (this is something I don't care a ton about, but it is often touted when guys talk about Lucha or even Japanese candidates), was a good worker and was involved in several big money drawing angles and programs. Hell, I feel like The Sheepherders have a career that is much more interesting than I previously would have thought after watching this stuff, though I'm not holding them up as a team I would support. If there were voters from PR I wouldn't be surprised to see guys like Ayala, Profe or even Ron Starr at least get Owen Hart/Curt Hennig level support. The point isn't that these guys are all HoFer's, or even that they should get the consolation prize of a trip to the ballot for their careers, it's more that when I read Dave basically say "no one from PR is a decent candidate other than Colon, the guy who killed Brody and maybe Perez, but only for the time he was teaming with Rocca who is already in), it makes me wonder how much of the context he really gets. I think Dave has done a good job trying to get more credible Lucha voters involved based on what I've heard from Steve and Jose. He has definitely done a good job trying to get more credible voters for Europe and Australia, though I do wonder if there are guys from those regions that realize they can push for other candidates. Still there are places that seem really under explored, including much of Mexican wrestling history, South America, Australia, Puerto Rico, South Africa, Europe, et. Without wanting to get too much into Invader/Brody talk (I don't want to derail the thread into this tangent), the dynamic at play can be seen in that you see any accounts by American wrestlers taken at face value by many people, while any accounts given by the Puerto Ricans are met with skepticism or inclination to think they are lying to some degree. Honestly, my feeling on this has always been that everyone is lying to some degree about what happened, since the blowback would have made anyone scramble to cover their ass to minimize what fell their way. The other thing is that a lot of people parrot things about what happened a t the trial but I've never really seen a source for where most of what happened there comes from. With regards to the unexplored areas, I think it mostly stems from a language issue and the ethnocentric focus people tend to give to their wrestling vs. other wrestling. Outside of Japan (treated as the Valhalla of wrestling) and Mexico (an area not fully delved into as evidenced by the logjam of candidates), every other bracket is from English speaking areas (Europe is basically British candidates). There's definitely more that can be done for other regions, but it would require some local 'eyes' in those places to really get started. I forgot to look at El Profe, Sheepherders and Ron Starr as potential ballot nominees in the previous post running down possible ballot candidates, but you're correct that they could be credibly considered for a ballot nomination. And I owe an answer to the previously asked question about Hugo and Chicky.

That's likely because WWC management are notorious cheapas..., uhh, I mean very budget conscious (yeah that's it ), so they likely were wringing every last bit of their money's worth out of that graphic no matter how soon it was outdated.

Yeah, I was talking about El Profe. It's not something that may seem of the magnitude of TNT returning, but I have a certain fondness for El Profe. He was a staple of WWC in some notable capacity (manager, interviewer, host and/or commentator) from when I first started watching in elementary school all the way through when I was in college. Also, he has had some delicate health problems in recent years, so it was nice to see that he's recovered enough to get back into action in some way (even if it's just for a couple of appearances). From what I recall, WWC had said they would not show the match on the iPPV and it's not on the DVD. I don't think they expressly said it would not air on TV. Typically the Aniversario matches are not aired until one year after the event, if at all (particularly if they are selling a DVD of the event). The one year rule has been the norm ever since I started watching (and I think started with Aniversario 87). In this case, since they really can't make money off the match by putting it on the DVD, they're airing the final moments of the match to help push the current Rey Fenix vs. Carlito issue. That's why they haven't shown the Carllito/Ray Gonzalez vs. Thunder/Lightning masks vs. hair match on the TV show, it's one of the hooks for people to buy the DVD. Interestingly enough, they did air the rematch from the following day where they were already unmasked. There is some crowd handheld footage of the final minutes and unmasking, but not the full match.

Today's TV show was hyping the Crossfire card later today. I was pleasantly surprised by a return in the show opening hype video for the event.

Sorry about not replying yet, I had an unexpected workshop meeting pop up at work and I haven't been able to take the time out I've wanted to write about Hugo and Chicky in more detail. I'm done with the workshop tomorrow, so hopefully I'll have time then. Short answer, both were very important in their roles, but if I had to choose who was more important, I'd say Hugo because he was also the producer of the shows. I'll go into longer detail tomorrow, since I also want to flesh out the show dynamics a bit.

Actually no. The Action Jackson as "Original" TNT storyline was a feud for TNT for the summer of 89 that was supposed to culminate at Aniversario 89 in a match where the winner gets the right to the name and paint. After TNT finished his program as challenger to Steve Strong, Chicky Starr started claiming that TNT was an impostor and that he was going to bring in the original TNT to prove it. Chicky, in a total dick heel move, would actually reveal TNT's real name during this and would keep calling him by it as he insisted TNT was an impostor. The "original" one showed up (managed by Chicky of course) complete with mastery of the Cobra Dinamita. In a match between both TNTs, the "original" put TNT out with the hold and refused to wake him up (a call back to what TNT did a few times as a heel). However, the blow off never happened, as the night of Aniversario 89 was cancelled that very same day due to the incoming Hurricane Hugo. By the time the event was rescheduled three weeks later, Action Jackson had left. Instead they had Chicky face TNT in a hair vs. gimmick 5 minute challenge match. Fast forward to 1991, Action Jackson returns as the Original TNT and they restart tne feud. This time they have the winner take all match, won by TNT. The actual legal battle (and I hope I'm not mixing up the details) starts when TNT jumps from Capitol Sports to the new AWF promotion. TNT would initially wrestle under that name for a while. However, WWC proceeded to file a trademark claim on the TNT name and gimmick. Once they had that trademark, they filed a suit for TNT to stop using the name and gimmick since they owned it. This necessitated AWF to run an angle where TNT was suspended and not allowed to wrestle. He would start wrestling under a different name but would assume the TNT name again after a while. By this point, both companies were in financial difficulties and were more focused on staying afloat than the legal squabble over the name. AWF would go under in mid 93 and TNT would disappear, heading to the WWF and becoming Kwang and then Savio Vega. Savio would try again to compete locally in 96 with the WWA, but he wrestled as Savio. However, when IWA started in late 99 TNT was brought back. WWC countered in 2000 with a cease and desist order since they still owned the trademark. IWA responded by calling him El Hombre Dinamita but did not change anything else. Savio would end up shelving this alter ego and avoid using him save for a couple of occasions when he brought the gimmick back for a couple of appearances as a jab at WWC during the heated IWA vs. WWC promotional war. Those times he was named The Man They Call TNT. Interestingly, when Ray Gonzalez first jumped to IWA, WWC also tried to legally block him from using his name. While the whole legal mess was decided, they came up with the Rey Fenix identity so that he could wrestle. When the courts ruled in favor of Ray Gonzalez, he unmasked himself and started wrestling by his established name again. Because of the legal battle over the TNT name, I never thought Savio would ever go back to it in WWC.

I think the whole problem about where to categorize Colon is that the most logical place to put him (a Caribbean, Central & South America pool) is not an option because 1) it doesn't exist; 2) much is unknown about the region (even Puerto Rico to an extent among the electorate); 3) who else could be a candidate besides Carlos Colon, and 4) where would you get enough credible voters for such a region. Of the existing categories, and I understand why many don't see it as logical fit, the 'correct' one would be the modern U/S/Canada performers group. I say 'correct' in quotes because of how PR is viewed as some far off, disconnected land from the rest of the territories/companies in that group (it's interesting how from my local viewpoint this is the category that makes the most sense of the existing ones, but from the mainland viewpoint PR is not seen as fitting in that category). Still, I'd rather Carlos Colon not be put in that group. If he's put in that group he'll never get in and might even fall off the ballot. And I think this is also why Mr. Meltzer has trouble in categorizing where to put him. I get the feeling that he believes Carlos should be in and knows that he would not fare well at all if placed in the Modern U.S. category because of Brody's death. So you combine the narrative attached because of Brody's death and the lack of familiarity/detachment of PR wrestling from what is typically viewed as Modern U.S., and that leaves you without a good category fit for Carlos Colon. The current placement with the Australian candidates is basically a cop out, a "throw your hands up in the air and say screw it, I don't' have any other place to put him" solution. The problem is that Carlos Colon sticks out like a sore thumb in that category. It's not fair to him and it's not fair to the Australian candidates for them to be in the same group. How many people are actually knowledgeable on Puerto Rico wrestling and Australian wrestling to be able to vote fairly in that category? I assume that would be quite the microscopic Venn diagram. You end up with a situation where you have people only voting for Colon in that category (which counts against the Australian candidates) and you have legitimate Australian voters voting for their region's performers and likely not voting for Colon (which counts against Colon). And honestly, I can't fault either voter for doing that because they are voting on what they know. It just so happens that they end up hurting the other candidates because of how the group is set up. I wonder how many voters the category would have if you subtract the voters in that group that only vote for Carlos Colon? To be fair, the decision to put Carlos in that group seems to be the only decent option of the ones available and it would have worked out fine if Carlos Colon had been elected already. Instead, he's missed out by razor thin margins the past few years and the longer him being in that group drags out, the more unfair I think it becomes to the other candidates from that region. Plus, there's the cynic in me that finds it odd that he's missed by such short margins (a no to the category vote or two would be enough to block him considering the voting group's size for this bucket). The solution that makes the most sense is a Caribbean, Central & South America pool, but you run into the problems I outlined above. I couldn't begin to tell you if Jack Veneno & Relampago Hernandez from the Dominican Republic, Jose Azzari from Guatemala, and others are worthy ballot nominees because my knowledge here is basically null. It's an area still unexplored for the most part in terms of research. Martin Karadagian, were he not already in, would have been a shoo in for such a candidate pool. To Dylan's question about who from PR could be placed on a ballot for consideration (besides obviously Carlos Colon): Truthfully, the second best candidate is Invader 1. I agree that Mr. Meltzer noting that he couldn't include Invader I on the ballot without people wanting to "lynch" him appears to be a tacit admission that Invader I would be a decent candidate (absent the obvious baggage there). Believe it or not, another strong candidate I see is Hugo Savinovich. Chicky Starr would be solid as a ballot nominee. He basically carried the heel side from 86 through 90 as wrestler, manager, mouthpiece, interview segment host and sometimes commentator. His return in the late 90's-early 00's also was good, if not as essential as his earlier run. Plus, he's definitely part of Puerto Rican pop culture. The man did spawn the use of the phrase "Bregando a la Chicky Starr" in the local vernacular. Jose Rivera was one of the notable faces in the late 70's but didn't do anything down here in the 80's, being in the WWF instead. Jose Estrada had his runs as Super Medico, but outside of the feud with the Invaders in 84 wasn't really too much on top. I wouldn't put them on the ballot although they get a gazillion bonus points for being the Conquistadors. Hercules Ayala doesn't have anything notable on his resume other than his nearly two year feud with Carlos Colon. He was at most the number three face when he was in WWC (he would not be there for stretches during the 80's) before turning heel. Of the other Invaders, #3 is the closest to be a ballot nominee, but probably falls short Guys like Abdullah, Brody, Hansen and the Funks) are already in and would be without PR being factored into the equation. Huracan Castillo Sr. was a top heel in the 70's here but don't know if his work before that in other territories would make him a viable ballot nominee. Miguel Perez Sr. is interesting. He was originally the top face star while they established Carlos Colon. The perception of his work before that is (to paraphrase Jim Cornette) the guy who teams with the guy that draws the money (Rocca). I honestly don't know if that's basically true or if there is more meat there than he is given credit for. Might be more at place in the Historical U.S category. Pedro Morales didn't do much locally to add to his case and is in the correct voting pool. Of Savio Vega, Huracan Castillo Jr. and Miguel Perez Jr., I'd say Savio/TNT would be the best one for being on the ballot. Ray Gonzalez I could see on a ballot, but if you think Buddy Rose has big fish, small pond problems... Eddie Gilbert and Dutch Mantel were successful in their booking runs but that's not enough to put them in a PR ballot pool. I don't know if Dick Murdoch's early 90's run helps moves the needle for him (probably not). Well, Victor Jovica and Victor Quinonez on the promotional side could be ballot nominees. People like Joaquin Padin and Eliud Gonzalez would deserve local recognition but may be a stretch for ballot nominees I'd think. For the future, I'd be interested in seeing how Ricky Banderas/Mesias's career ends up. Am I missing anyone?

Zcion RT1, Steve Joel and Jay Velez left WWC, which was announced by Zcion via a Facebook post. Steve Joel also posted a comment.

Yeah that was pretty crazy. I'm guessing he won't win the title though. Crossfire looks good with the Carlito/Rey Fenix mask vs hair match. Hasn't Rey lost his mask in WWC before? And WWC losing three guys in one facebook post has to hurt. Of course they are just undercard guys but 2 are babyfaces. WWC needs to get some new talent. It was crazy and awesome. After 22 years he has returned to WWC. I honestly never thought it would happen considering the history of nasty legal battles over the rights to the name. Crossfire looks pretty good and they may be setting up a longer Universal title program. They might be looking to stretch it to Euphoria in January. I think Ray previously had taken the mask off voluntarily, both as Ray Fenix in IWA and as El Condor when he returned to WWC (may be misremembering here though). Yeah, losing three guys is never good, but to be honest, they were on the dreaded Junior treadmill. It always seems that WWC has the same guys wrestling lower card matches against each other for long periods without trying to do anything to build them up or give them some development character wise. Right now it looks like they've decided to build up Sylar Andrews, Rikochet, Xix Xavant and Mike Mendoza. What has me a bit wary is that Xavant's feud with Ash Rubinsky seemed to be headed for setting up Xavant as the challenger to Bronco's Puerto Rico title. But, it's Apolo getting the shot after not being a regular for quite a few months (and what is likely a weekend shot). Hopefully they'll pull the trigger on Xavant as a challenger soon but I won't believe it till I see it.

Sixteen Candles.

I agree that perceptions have their place and value, but I also believe its important to understand the why of those perceptions.

And based on a quick look at certain boards, it seems some voters are ready to rubber stamp the three new Japan candidates for next year, while not giving JYD even a glance. Why is Japan held as some sort of holy land of wrestling where everything from there is treated as ambrosia while other stronger candidates from other places are left languishing?

This is one of the things I was thinking about when I mentioned what was the point of having the voting process. Meltzer's position about "being there at the time" vs. "looking back from a modern perspective" is at odds with allowing the voters to self select the areas they are voting in instead of having some sort of pre certification for the right to vote in that bucket. What I find funny about this is that, thinking about it, anyone who could have their work standing lowered through revisionism would not be affected for the hall of fame because they're already in (although I may be overlooking someone). And even if the opinion of their match work or quality shifts, guys like Brody and Sayama check off other factors such as influence, drawing and impact when he was active that opinions of their work or match quality are really a smaller part of their hall of fame case. In any case, complaints about denigrating or revising the perception of someone's work (particularly when this is the most subjective area of the factors looked at) make it seem like it's the driving force of someone's worthiness when in reality it's just one part of the equation. In reality, it's whether the sum of everything makes it a yay or a nay with everyone having different weights to the factors depending on their career. That's without going into the fact that from the 80's onwards opinion of the wrestlers' work was influenced by Meltzer himself, so I don't know if going against the established perceptions means saying he was wrong then. And this touches again on the point of the voting body selection and how it reflects on Meltzer that's been brought up before in this thread. Going back to "being there at the time" vs. "looking back from a modern perspective", look at the Modern U.S./Canada category. Next year JYD and CM Punk join the ballot and would be in the same category. JYD is someone whose prime was 30 years ago and whose perception is built on his post prime career and repeated JunkFood Dog slagging (setting aside the fact that JYD was a poor worker during that time). CM Punk is currently wrestling, stlll in his prime and has always been an Internet fan darling. Does it seem right for both of them to e evaluated in the same voting group? Remember, a voter self selects where he'll vote regardless of experience or knowledge with the entire time period covered by the that group. There's two generations worth of performers in that group, it doesn't strike me as 'right' to have them be all one group. I agree that revisionism of someone's influence, drawing and impact in the face of solid evidence (which a Tiger Mask definitely has) should not affect their hall of fame standing. Which is why I've always thought that focusing on workrate or quality should be a bit more of a complement for the hall of fame, then as the be all and end all that some treat it as. But match quality and work has always been a subjective thing and it's tough to objectively evaluate this to everyone's satisfaction. That's why we have situations on the ballot like Big Daddy, although his is a case where I have not seen anyone have a positive perception of him as worker. I think it shouldn't matter in his case because I believe everything everything else outweighs that. Honestly, you need both "being there at the time" vs. "looking back from a modern perspective" to really be fair. Both have their value and drawbacks. My position is the more information from varied sources the better. Modern perspective misses nuance and context from the time that should be considered. But you have to filter 'being there' for intentional or unintentional bias (we are all human after all). Trust, but verify. And for some performers, looking back is what has allowed them to be recognized now after being forgotten or ignored by the modern people who live in the now. You are right, it's tough to read tone and intention sometimes when people write online. After all, this medium is a bit impersonal without having someone right in front of you, so it will affect how we communicate. Very wise words about giving the benefit of the doubt. Dylan, I'll answer your question a bit later after I think about who could be a ballot possibility.

Maybe an Emma Stone?

You are right about this. It's called the difference between awareness and familiarity. The discussion seems to have some people talking about awareness and others about familiarity, so there will be disagreement since they are not the same thing.

Then why even bother with a hall of fame voting process at all if that's his stance? And (rhetorical question), legit no brainer to who? The assumed 'infability' of people who were there always has amused me.

Even though Embry had lost the Junior Heavyweight title, he still remained the Puerto Rican champion. Invader 3 would actually challenge Embry for that title also. Invader 3 vs. Eric Embry (likely February 1986) This a clip of the end of what was to be their final encounter. The Puerto Rico title is on the line as well as bragging rights in the quest for a decisive win between them. As the clip starts, Embry is busted open and Invader 3 is on the offensive. Invader 3 continues his assault but the ref ends up getting knocked down. Embry tries to take advantage of this and laces Invader 3 on the top turnbuckle. As Embry turns to gloat to the crowd, Invader 3 collects himself and jumps off with a punch to Embry's head. Invader 3 decides to give Embry a taste of his own medicine and sets him up for a superplex (one of Embry's maneuvers). However, Sasha grabs Invader 3's leg causing him to lose his balance when going for the move and hit his head on the mat. Embry tries to roll him up, they roll over twice fighting for posiiton and Embry ends up on top. Invader 3 is out of it from the hit he took and Embry gets the pinfall. Sasha celebrates as a woozy Embry is barely able to stand. Embry remained the Puerto Rican champion, but he also decided to start wrestling in the tag ranks. To that end, he formed a team with The Crusher (Rip Morgan). Here is a clip of this team in action. Eric Embry in Puerto Rico Of note, the announcers mention how much of a factor Sasha is in her team's matches. They also mention that The Crusher had sent Victor Jovica to the hospital with a back injury after delivering two of his kicks to Jovica's back (Hugo: He's been going to the chiropractor three times a week"). Embry and Crusher win the match in short order. The team of Embry and Crusher would start feuding with a recent arrival to Puerto Rico, the team of the Rock N Roll RPMs. The Rock N Roll RPMs (Mike Davis & Tommy Lane) had arrived at the beginning of 1986 and were quite the sensation with the local fans. They intially faced off against the Sheepherders, but when that team left, they would move on to a feud with Eric Embry and The Crusher (Rip Morgan). Sasha was still with Embry and, to no one's surprise, would interfere constantly in Embry’s matches to help her man out. Due to Sasha’s constant interference, the Rock N Roll RPMs brought in a friend to help neutralize her. It would be none other than Wendi Richter! WWC: Wendi Richter vs. Sasha (1986) The video starts with a short interview with Wendi Richter conducted by Hugo Savinovich. As the match starts, you'll notice a scaffold over the ring. This match is from the same card as the Invader 3 vs. Chicky Starr scaffold match. Embry (with a bandaged head) is with Sasha. Wendi dominates the early going, as Sasha keeps bailing to the outside. Embry keeps telling Sasha to get back in. Wendi keeps dominating the match. Eventually Embry interferes and Wendi wins by DQ. The RPMs (with their heads also bandaged) come to Wendi's aid. The RPMs grab Embry and Wendi gets some shots in. This brings out the Crusher (also with his head bandaged, that must have been some match these guys had earlier on the card) to help Embry. Both teams end up brawling at ringside. Sasha takes the opprtunity to blindside Wendi with a boot. Unfortunately there are no matches from this stretch between Embry/Crusher and the RPMs available. Sasha and Wendi would have a cage match to settle their issues. WWC: Wendi Richter vs. Sasha - Cage Match Note that Sasha is by herself but Wendi is accompanied by the RPMs. Wendi gets the win and decisively ends this feud. Eventually, the feud between the teams would run its course. Embry would move back into a feud with Super Medico. Also, Sasha would get tired of Embry's treatment towards her and would ditch him. As such, Sasha would accompany Super Medico, while Embry countered with Vivian St. John. This feud would result in a match being signed for Vengeance in the Afternoon. Super Medico would take on Eric Embry with the added stipulation that it would be a hair vs. mask match. Also for Vengeance in the Afternoon, The Crusher would go against Miguelito Perez. As for the RPMs, well... WWC: Mike Davis Receives An Award Be warned, the second half of the video is a bit graphic. With that, we head to Vengeance in the Afternoon.

Another notable match signed for "Vengeance in the Afternoon" involved Eric Embry. I'll take this opportunity to run through Embry's time in Puerto Rico. Embry had arrived to PR sometime in the summer of 85. Gino Della Serra vs. Eric Embry (1985) This is one Embry's first matches (if not the first) in PR. As the match starts, the commentators (Hugo Savinovich and Joaquin Padin) talk about Embry's attire (Hugo: What do you think of that attire?; Padin: It's impressive and fabulous that attire, but what matters is if he can win the match). Hugo mentions that Embry is known as the king of the piledriver (Mr. Piledriver). As the match progresses, Hugo says that Embry's a bit odd but knows about wrestling. He is also on a quest for the Junior Heavyweight title held by Invader 3. Gino controls most of the match but Embry takes over after a low blow. Embry proceeds to strut and brag as he takes over on Gino, but Gino eventually makes a comeback. Embry reverses a bodypress for the pin. The announcers put over Embry's smarts in pulling of the victory. Although Embry was intent on winning the Junior Heavyweight title, he actually managed to win the Puerto Rican title first. This happend on Aug. 17 and he defeated Super Medico. While Embry had rematches wuth Super Medico around this time, he would also find himself facing off against Miguelito Perez. Miguelito Pérez vs. Eric Embry (9/21/1985) This is a grudge match from Aniversario 85. Miguelito is accompanied by his father. Meanwhile, Embry has Dan Greer and a female valet with him. The lady is Sasha, a Puerto Rican woman that, according to Hugo, is "madly in love with Embry, she basically idolizes him". We cut to about seven minute into the match as Embry promplty foul kicks Miguelito during a handshake. The ref misses it and the fans start getting on the ref's case for it. Embry controls the match and makes a couple of arrogant covers but is not able to put Miguel away. As Embry sets Miguel up on the top turnbuckle, Miguelito surprises Embry with a low blow of his own. Miguelito goes on offense and Embry tries to beg off. Miguelito continues on offense. As Miguelito goes for the pin, Greer puts Embry's foot on the ropes (in a somewat blown spot) and the ref stops the count. Miguels Sr. jumps on the apron to protest and Miguelito goes after Greer. While the ref is arguing with Perez Sr., Greer grabs a hold of Miguelito and Embry charges. However, Miguelito gets out of the way and Embry hits Greer. The ref, having seen this, calls for the bell and DQ's Embry. Miguelito continues attacking Embry and dropkicks him into Greer. As Embry stumbles on the outside, the Perez family celebrates in the ring. Although Embry had lost, he was still the Puerto Rican champ. He would also go on to defeat Invader 3 for the Junior Heavyweight title on Nov. 25, making him a double title holder. With the Junior title win, Embry would enter into a feud with Invader 3. Sasha would play a prominent role, getting involved in their matches and helping Embry retain the title. Finally, a match was signed for Jan. 6, 1986 where Sasha would be locked in a cage to avoid any interference on her part. Eric Embry vs. Invader III (Jan. 6, 1986) The video starts with Invader 3 in the ring and with Embry and Sasha (who is sitting in a chair) at ringside. Sasha is refusing to get into the cage. As referee Tomas "El Martillo" Marin heads out to try to get Sasha to move, Hugo is mentioning on commentary that the referee is saying that if Sasha does not get into the cage, Embry will forfeit the match. Invader 3 decides to grab Sasha and carries her to the cage, where she is promptly locked inside. As an irate Sasha screams and hits the cage, Invader 3 goes after Embry. Both men slide into the ring but Embry jumps back out and heads toward the cage and Sasha. Embry tries to shake the cage door open, but its locked (Embry's frustrated expression during this is pretty amusing). Finally, a reluctant Embry gets into the ring and the match starts. Embry tries to stall in the first few minutes, but Invader 3 comes out ahead when they do lock up. We come back from commercial with both men criss crossing on the ropes and Invader 3 once again taking control of the match. As Invader 3 works a headlock, Eliud Gonzales announces that we are at the 25 minute mark. Hugo repeats the time and apologizes to the fans as "most of you will see the match cut in parts due to the program's time constraints, but we will always strive that the most important moments and as much as is possible is shown, but this one is set for a one hour time limit and it is difficult fitting the entire match into the program". At this point, Embry takes over the match. As Embry has Invader 3 in a chinlock, Hugo introduces the ringside doctor, Hector Gonzalez, and asks him how is it possible for these two men to still be going at it after 25 minutes without tiring. Hector days that it is due to the phenomenal shape these two men are in. "They have a strict exercise regimen, a good diet, and they are in tremendous and enviable shape". As Embry continues with the chinlock, we go to another commercial break. We come back with Invader 3 working over Embry's leg and Embry is bleeding. As Invader 3 continues working the hold, the time announcement is made: 50 minutes. Hugo puts over the condition of both men, in particular Embry for not giving up even with being busted open. There's a kid in the audience just screaming at Invader 3,cheering him on ("Put him in the figure four Johnny!!"). Invader 3 complies but Embry quickly grabs the ropes. Hugo again ask as the doctor for his opinion (Hugo: It has now been 53 minutes. How is it that Embry can still continue despite the fact he is bleeding? How has e not fainted from the blood loss?; Hector: Well Hugo, although he is bleeding, the blood will coagulate and that will slow down the bleeding. The cuts are not deep enough at this moment to produce dizziness and blackout symptoms yet"). Embry proceeds to go to the top but is tossed off by Invader 3. Invader 3 then goes on the offensive trying to get the win, but Embry keeps surviving. Invader 3 is getting annoyed, yanks off Embry's kneepad and goes after the knee. 55 minutes have elapsed! Invader 3 continues working on the leg as Embry can barely stand. Embry manages to get a piledriver but is too spent to follow up. Embry goes up top with 4 minutes left, but misses a headbutt. Abdominal stretch by Invader 3 as there are three minutes left. Embry hiptosses out of it but is hit with a clothesline of the rope. He manages to get a foot on the ropes to break the count. Backslide by Invader 3 and Embry barely manages to get loose. Two minutes left as Invader 3 hits a bodypress but again Embry manages to kick out. Sunset flip and Embry kicks out again! Both men collide their heads and they are both down. Embry gets up first and tries for a splash but Invader 3 gets his knees up. Pinfall attempt by Invader 3 is too close to the ropes and Embry gets his foot on them. 1 minute left! Invader 3 tosses Embry outside of the ring and hits a tope onto him. Both men are out on the floor as the referee starts his count. 20 seconds left in the match! Invader 3 manages to roll back in with 10 seconds left. The crowd starts counting down along with Eliud Gonzalez. Embry is struggling to get up but does not make it. As the bell rings, Invader 3 raises his arms in victory. Embry, outside and on his knees, slightly raises one arm in victory and promptly collapses to the floor. As medical personnel and Sasha (who has been released from the cage) go to check on Embry, the official decision is announced: Invader 3 wins by countout but Embry retains the title. After this encounter, they would have one more rematch. On Jan. 18, Invader 3 regained the Junior Heavyweight title from Eric Embry.