garretta
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Everything posted by garretta
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I figured it was something like that. Thanks, Loss!
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Don't forget about Arn. I loved the line "I didn't just fall in a ditch and have someone hend me the belts because they felt sorry for me." Flair's finally allowed to be Flair here, and the results are glorious. I'm not sure if the stuff about wanting to "take a new role" with AFFTG was the real intention of that segment or whether Ric was just exercising damage control, but I guess it doesn't matter now, since the show will apparently be gone by the end of June. I like the idea of Flair and Arn asking for the two out of three fall match; Austin and Pillman think that they're old and decrepit, so what better way to disprove that than by demanding a match that's practically guaranteed to go long? Another highlight was Arn talking about the Blonds resurrecting the Horsemen almost singlehandedly, making them earn their reputation all over again. Unfortunately, as I've said before, the group is still one member short as far as active wrestlers goes, so I'm not sure how much they can do with that part of the storyline. I'll forgive Flair's screaming, since he's been holding himself back for months. Tony didn't seem nearly as excited as he should have been for the big news, however. He turns his excitement on and off at the oddest times these days. Who was Arn's fourth World tag team championship partner? I have Tully, Larry, and Bobby Eaton. He and Ole never won the titles, and he and Flair hadn't yet either. Could he have been counting Tully twice, since they had two separate title reigns?
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This dragged for me. I prefer my shootstyle with more strikes and scoring; this felt like watching a high school match. I appreciate the effort, but it simply wasn't my cup of tea.
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This was pretty one-sided to me, as Berto couldn't defend against Flynn's knees. I've never see a shootstyle match where knees end up being the definitive strike before. Not much else to say, as Berto looked like a rookie, whether he actually was one or not. Like Pete, I'm fine with never seeing this again.
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At least Flair plugged Slamboree a little. Compard to the last few segments which barely mentioned wrestling at all, that's an improvement. Honestly, I don't know what to think. AFFTG should have been a great show featuring two of the greatest talkers this sport has ever seen, can't miss TV just like Piper's Pit used to be. Instead, Flair acts like he never wants to hear about wrestling ever again and Arn just sits on a stool with a goofy grin on his face. Look, I get that Flair can't wrestle yet, so they have to watch how they build angles with him so they don't boil over before they can make any money in the ring. But that doesn't excuse what we've seen here. Let Flair conduct real interviews at least. Fifi and the other incidentals have their place, but once the guest comes out, let's get down to some semblance of business. This is the go-home show for Slamboree, and while Rude briefly mentions his programs with Sasaki and Dustin, tomorrow night's tag with Orndorff against them isn't even referred to once. Paul should have been out there with him getting his share of the attention (and the booty too). As it is, if Arn wasn't wrestling Windham for the NWA belt, I doubt this version of Flair would have even referred to Slamboree at all. Even the Horsemen reunion barely gets a mention, though that may be a blessing considering what we ended up with. (I give them a pass for mentioning Tully, since he was probably coming at the time the show was taped.) Fufu looked like Terri Runnels in a cheap wig. Even if it wasn't Terri, it was definitely someone wearing a wig, as you can see them adjust it several times. What was the Japanese theme about? Flair and Rude didn't look bad in kimonos, but Arn was way out of place. It would have had a place if Rude wanted to play mind games with Sasaki, but we get no indication whatsoever that that's the case. Rude brought up the possibility of a Flair return, so you can guess it's coming soon in some form or fashion. I didn't know that the WWF non-competes were so strict that Ric couldn't even hint at a return until his was up, but if that was true, as I've said before, Eric should have waited until Slamboree to bring Flair back instead of doing so in February and wasting him like WCW has ever since. I notice that we've got three more of these coming up in June, so we can hope that they'll get better once Flair can start promoting his comeback match. It's a longshot, but we can hope.
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Thanks, Tim!
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AJ said on another thread that he was almost certain that this was Jennifer Jarrett, Jeff's little sister. I guess I called it, because I said that she was either a Jarrett or a Lawler to be able to get a job like this as her first (at least that we know of) in the business. I donlt think either Jerry or Jennifer knew quite what to do here; she's most likely seen all his artwork, but they have to pretend she hasn't for the camera, which probably led to some of her less than enthusiastic reactions. It's tough to fake genuine emorion of any kind unless you're a professional actress, and Jennifer clearly isn't one. Lawler's artwork is definitely of professional quality, but I notice that he sidestepped the question about whether he's ever actually sold anything. I'm willing to bet he has, and I'm not sure why he's reluctant to talk about it. It can't hurt his image, because everyone already knows he's an artist of some talent. Maybe he's just shy when it comes to what happens outside the ring. I expected more than one wrestling-related picture, and I'm not sure what it says that the one he chose to show was of Jimmy Valiant. One line is the best you can do drawing? Come on, Jennifer. I can do better than that with cerebral palsy and severely diminished motor skills. I have a hard time believing that so many of the King's classmates were dead at this time, considering that he'd only graduated twenty-six years before. If it's true, I guess they just don't make 'em too healthy down Memphis way. The wallet on fire was probably the highlight of the segment, and I liked that they didn't telegraph it with a corny joke beforehand. There's a place for a segment like this on USWA TV, but it definitely needs a better host. Maybe the King himself could do it, as long as they don't choose to profile too many heels.
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This was beautifully done from start to finish. Hall played his embarrassment and anger like a virtuoso, and Sacage and Bret were terrifiv at planting the seeds for the "One-two-three" chant. Twenty-five hundred's a bit low for a challenge in '93, but it gives Hall a lot of room to go up if Waltman keeps refusing (which we know he does at least once). I loved Bret coming down and taunting Hall about how he'll never beat him if he can't even beat a "nobody" like Waltman. This is especially true since Bret got a clean submission win over Hall at the Royal Rumble. Actually, I'm kind of surprised they're running Bret-Hall at another pay-per-view in light of that result. I know it's only an opening round match, but it's getting lots of hype, as we saw here. I might have switched the brackets and put Bret vs. Mr. Hughes in order to keep the matchups fresh. That would have left us with a Perfect-Razor bout, which hadn't been run on pay-per-view before and could have blown off the issue between those two once and for all. Savage isn't exactly a perfect straight man for Heenan, but the Brain got off a classic nonetheless when discussing Bill Fralic's golf tournament: "I had four holes-in one. I only played three holes. though." When he says it, it actually makes sense! This is the first angle involving a challenge or a bounty that I can think of in the WWF since the bounty placed by Heenan on Paul Orndorff's head in 1985, which was never collected and ultimately forgotten when Paul turned on Hogan in the summer of '86. (John Studd's bodyslam challenge ran concurrent to this, but it had been around since Studd's original WWF debut in late 1982.)
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[1993-04-30-CMLL] Ultimo Dragoncito & Orito vs Felinito & Ultratumbita
garretta replied to Loss's topic in April 1993
I fall toward the negative, I guess. It's great to see minis who wrestle just like big people instead of clowning to the point of absurdity, but the finish was disappointing, especially since there are so few countouts in lucha. If the regular-sized guys can have clean finishes in almost every match, why can't the minis? Dragoncito didn't even make an effort to get back in the ring from what I could see, which is totally ridiculous, especially since this was the third and deciding fall of a tied match. Some of the dives were absolutely incredible, with the highlight being Dragoncito elevating Orito to what seemed like nine miles high so he could come down on Felinito. I don't know of any heavyweights at this point in tiime (April 1993) who can fly that high, at least not consistently. -
The finish completely overshadowed the match here; with the exception of a couple of good-looking dives, the match itself hadn't found its way into first gear yet. Even if you didn't know the backstory, you knew something was going to happen between Felino and Casas after Felino shoved Casas down not once, but twice. You just don't do that to someone with Casas' reputation and expect to walk away unscathed. Ramirez's dive into the crowd was probably the best actual move we saw. Can you imagine being a fan in the second row and seeing these two flying straight at you? And they're lightweights! At least when monsters like Hansen, Brody, and Abby brawl into the crowd, they're moving slowly enough so that those who want to get out of the way can do so safely. There's no time for that here, and even a two hundred-pound guy can do damage to the average fan when he's coming through the air as quickly as these two did. Are Felino and Casas legit brothers? That would certainly add fuel to what promises to be a sizzling hot feud!
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I actually agree with the finish. If a wrestler like del Santo can't get away with touching the ref (be he tecnico or rudo) then a second like Eddie certainly can't. I liked his expression after the match; he was clearly kicking himself for costing del Santo the title, as he should have been. The dives in the third fall were great, but I loved all the headscissor variations del Santo used in the first fall and the different moves that came out of them. Who knew that such a basic hold could be so versatile? Metal was clearly the inferior worker here, but I thought he kept up with del Santo well. This was more of a bristles match than a broomstick match, if you get my drift. I hope the follow-up mask vs. hair match made the set, as this is a matchup I wouldn't mind seeing again. Metal seems to me to be one of those "limited" workers who's actually quite a good fit with an accaimed technician, like Liger-Honaga or Steamboat-Honky.
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I loved Yamada attacking the arm early, and I thought Hokuto sold it just fine. But this being AJW, they had to get to the finish about halfway through, which included suplexes that a person needs two good arms to execute, so all the previous work was forgotten and the match just became a nearfall exhibition. I've never seen a promotion other than this one where the nearfalls have absolutely nothing to do with the rest of the match, as if they exist in their own separate universe entirely. It would probably be better if they just worked their matches like a skill exhibition focusing on nearfalls and had judges at ringside who scores based on how well they were executed and how they tied up the opposing wrestler. Even the postmatch brouhaha didn't really save this for me. Don't get me wrong, these bouts are still infinitely more watchable than the dreck that passes for American women's wrestling at this time (May 1993). Then again, what isn't?
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[1993-04-16-AJPW-Championship Carnival] Stan Hansen vs Kenta Kobashi
garretta replied to Loss's topic in April 1993
This match has made Kobashi a star in my eyes. Anyone who can do to Hansen what he did for the first half, take a brutal pounding, and still come back to have him on the run until the very last second is a star in my book. He works on Stan's arm the way Stan himself worked on Misawa's during their May Triple Crown match, only he keeps it up longer than Stan did there. Stan does a wonderful selling job as well, making sure to use the other arm for the rest of the bout until it was time to hit what was probably the most spectacular lariat I've ever seen from him. Kenta never even felt it coming, and his selling job after the final pin makes it look like he's just been squashed in two minutes by an unstoppable monster. Stan also deserves credit for looking as good as he did on offense while still selling the arm injury. The selling from both guys alone makes this a must-watch. I'm glad to hear there's more coming from these two on the horizon, and I'm eagerly looking forward to their next clash. -
Put in the context of much harder-hitting and more extreme matches from all over the world, matches like this are bound to suffer. But if you go against the concept of the Yearbooks a bit and simply compare it to other WWF matches so far this year, this was very good bordering on excellent. Even with the overbooking, I liked it better than the Jannetty title change, which seemed more about the pop for Marty winning out of nowhere. I thought Curt brought his working clothes; he used moves like the Indian deathlock that I've never seen him use in the WWF before, and I marked out for him actually using the Ax, which he should have been doing all along even if they gave it another name. His work on Shawn's legs was very good, and he seemed to have more energy than most guys do in house shows like this. Shawn's a lot like Honky during this reign; he only engages with his opponents when given no other choice, and although we know he can wrestle from what we see later in his career, he's not supposed to do it much at this time. In other words, the opponent does all the work and he sneaks out with the belt in the end. By that standard, he was on the money too, although they need to avoid overdoing the "take my belt and go home" stuff. Not even Honky, the epitome of the cowardly champion, did that (at least not on TV) but Shawn did it here, in the Duggan Raw match that didn't make the set (according to Vince), and in the Jannetty title change. Fans are going to stop buying him trying and failing to run out in order to save the belt if they're not careful; they either need to not use the finish or let him get away with it once to prove that it's a possibility. I liked the Gunns run-in, but the two referee stuff needed to be saved for a rematch. The problem was, Vince knew that Shawn was dropping the belt, so there wouldn't be a rematch. Thus, he needed to do what he'd normally do over a two-match sequence in one night. Nice to see Danny Davis as the second ref after Jimmy Hart treated him so roughly at Mania IX. As I said above, compared to other WWF matches from around this time, this match was very good. It may even be the second-best house show handheld from the WWF this year behind the Bret-Flair ironman match. In the context of what else we're seeing on this set, though, it's deeply flawed, and they most likely won't get a do-over, since Shawn's not IC champion anymore.
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What would have happened if the time limit expired without a winner and the ring blew up? I'm not into these at all. The only thing I kept thinking as the ring was about to explode and both of them were still in there was "Serves you right, assholes". I know that's not the desired reaction, but I just don't see the point of these. It isn't to have good matches, certainly, although Terry tried to actually wrestle for the first minute or two before he gave up. I guess the idea is to see a ring with barbed wire around it explode, but why do we have to have human beings inside it at the time? Just set a bomb off after the matches are over once or twice a year and let the crowd go nuts if that's what they want. It's even hard to admire Terry and Onita for their guts, although I know they took horrendous punishment. I'd much rather see Terry goofing off and talking to a horse's ass. As for Onita, let me know when he wrestles a match in a ring with actual ropes around it and with a referee who doesn't look like he's ready to go into the oven for an hour at 350 degrees.
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I can see how this match might frustrate some people. Stan's arm work was some of the best I've seen from anyone, but he's not a submission wrestler, so he bailed on it with about ten minutes left to start setting up the lariat, which goes against all common sense and wrestling wisdom. For his part, Misawa kept applying the facelock long after he should have known that it just wasn't going to work. He couldn't apply it properly to begin with; most of the time, it ended up just a simple reverse chinlock. When he did apply it, he couldn't get any power behind it to really bear down. We needn't have worried, though; he still had that wipeout forearm, which put Stan away for good. I just hope that he remembered to throw it with his "good" arm. I never thought I'd see Stan shake hands with an opponent after he lost, but it was great to see him pay Misawa his due, at least on this night. I'm glad there will be more to come from these two in the not-too-distant future. I had no idea that the rectangular object that Stan hit Misawa with was actually a TV monitor. No wonder the broadcaster fought with him over it; those things aren't exactly cheap, now or then.
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As almost everyone else has said before me, this was about putting over Kawada and Taue strongly, and that mission was certianly accomplished. No hints of a precious feud, no lingering trust issues, just a couple of real mooses taking care of business. They not only made quick tags. they pulled out some nice doubleteams right at the end. Their match against the MVC ought to be something else again. There was a time not long ago where I thought Kikuchi was turning the corner, but that time has passed. If he isn't going to move up in the pecking order now that Kawada's on Taue's side of the fence, he isn't going to, and 'the way Kawada and Taue dispatched him made it crystal clear that he's going nowhere. Kobashi looks like he could be a decent number two for Misawa once things shake out, but this was really the wrong match to judge such a thing. Holy Demon Army for Kawada and Taue, huh? They're holy something, all right, and they unleash the depths of hell on their opponents. Sounds like a winner to me!
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This one really dragged; only the surprise ending kept it from being a complete dud. There have been quite a few nice shootstyle bouts in the yearbooks, but this wasn't one of them. Watching two guys twist each other's ankles for twenty minutes isn't my idea of good pro wrestling. I'm just glad I wasn't the only one who was bored stiff by it (Thanks, Pete!). At least give me some scoring on something other than rope breaks.
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This was one of those matches that would have been on Superstars before there was a Raw. It's wrestled in a similar style, as Marty and Shawn work double-time to get their stuff in, plus there's interference from Shawn's "proper" feud partner Curt. Why would Curt help Marty win the title? Because personal grudges trump titles in the WWF. As long as Shawn lost the belt and looked stupid in the process, it really didn't matter to Curt if he won it. Kind of backwards, I know, but that was the thinking at the time. This was a ton better than the November house show match that we got in full on the '92 set; Marty looked motivated and fit, and Shawn was trying his damndest to back up his big mouth, which will always inspire a heel to try his best. I would have liked a bit more of a back-and-forth contest instead of Marty taking the first half and Shawn the second, but that's just me. Even this early on, before it got its name, Sweet Chin Music is sold as a big deal. I don't see what makes it weaker than any other kick used by a wrestler, though I could do without the elaborate "warm up the band" stuff that Shawn did to set it up later. It made the poor soul who was gong to take it look foolish for not getting out of the way. The commentary was pretty nondescript; everyone played the roles you'd expect about as well as you'd expect. Savage had the Line of the Night, though: I forget exactly what Marty did to set it up, but Randy responded with, "Marty Jannetty on Ico-Pro, no doubt." Considering what Marty had just come back from, that line was hilarious. Heenan had the runner-up after Shawn almost pulled Marty's trunks off while trying to pin him: "It's ten o'clock, We should be seeing the moon by now anyway." The best episode of WWF TV that I saw was the 2/7/87 Superstars. The Harts beating the Bulldogs, Andre's turn on Hogan, and the unexpected nature of both makes it stand out in my mind even today, almost thirty years later. If you count NBC specials (which I know Pete didn't) it would still be number one. The 2/5/88 Main Event would have made it if Savage had beaten Honky for the IC belt as planned, but as it was, Hogan-Andre II was the most memorable thing about it, and that was mostly because of Dave and Earl Hebner, not the match itself (which was noticeably worse than Mania III even to my thirteen year-old eyes and doesn't hold up at all today). Plus, they had to dump out of the Strike Force-Harts match because everything else ran too long.
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Thanks, AJ!
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One word sums up this match: Why? Why didn't WCW simply claim that Douglas got hurt or ran scared or fell off the face of the earth or whatever else they wanted? Why didn't they just sub in Zenk as Steamer's partner and move on? Why did we get what looked like a big finish with Steamer leaping off the top of the cage (after revealing his face, no less) only for the Blonds to then beat Zenk clean as a sheet, thus further pissing off a crowd that was none too friendly to start with? If I recall correctly, Steamer and Douglas supposedly used the Dos Hombres name and mask to beat the Blonds in a non-title match, so at least that part made sense: they wanted to capitalize on their momentum and throw Austin and Pillman off guard. But the minute Zenk had to be substituted, that should have gone out the window, assuming that it was planned. Of course, knowing this nut factory, they probably decided to use the Dos Hombres gimmick at the last second to cover up for Douglas' absence. That would explain why the crowd was so deflated: even if they knew the story behind the gimmick, they couldn't figure out why Steamer and Shane were using it in the title match. Maybe a few people figured out that it wasn't them in the outfits, which wouldn't surprise me after the Horsemen bait-and-switch earlier, The funny thing is, they could have made a big deal about Zenk teaming with Steamer in his hour of need and facing off against his former partner. Zenk was still reasonably popular, and most of the fans probably remembered the Zenk/Pillman team, so it would have added some drama to the proceedings. But for whatever reason, nobody at WCW could get out of his or her own way all night long. Larry was good on commentary in what we saw, and I especially liked him promising stardom for Austin provided that his body holds up. It didn't, as we know, but he was still a much bigger star than Larry could have ever foreseen. Speaking of false advertising (although this was unintentional), we got Larry instead of Jesse, whose blood clots flared up again and put him in the hospital, That's not WCW's fault, of course, but I wonder if they told the truth (or at least said that Jesse was under the weather) or made up a wild story to cover for his absence. Since most of the stuff we've seen from this card has been a giant trainwreck, I'm voting for the latter.
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I agree with those who say that this shouldn't have been put in the middle of a card, especially not after the disappointing Horsemen "reunion". Add in the fact that II was the only one of the inductees whom most of the Atlanta fans knew or cared about, and you had a disaster on your hands. Gordon knew it almost right away, but he soldiered on like the pro he's always been. Maybe the legends matches and the induction could have taken place the night before and been aired on TV at least in part instead of expecting fans to pay for them, especailly pay-per-view prices. Eddie Graham got a halfhearted positive reaction, Thesz got next to nothing, and Verne was actually booed, most likely because at least some fans remembered the substandard product he put on ESPN for over five years. The promos some people above me were talking about must have been on the live pay-per-view, because they weren't included here. The only one who said anything at all was II when he thanked everyone for the honor, and it didn't seem like anyone was expecting it. I know this is a wrestling board, but there are things more important in this world, and an invitation to a Presidential inauguration is one of them. II should have put aside the carny bullshit, ditched the mask, and gone. It's not like anyone would have known him in Washington, since he hadn't wrestled recently for Vince Sr., and I'm reasonably sure that Walter Cronkite wouldn't have pointed him out in the crowd on network TV, or even known who he was, mask or no mask.
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Stallone and Jesse at least acted like they knew each other, which doesn't always happen when wrestlers and celebrities get together for interviews. What was this supposed to accomplish, Pete? In terms of advancing storylines ot hyping Slamboree, not a blessed thing. But not everything in wrestling has to be about selling or hyping. Eric saw an opportunity to get a Hollywood legend to sit down for an interview, and he took it. There isn't much more to it than that. Jesse's presence in the movie was just an excuse to get the interview shown on WCWSN, which was the only outlet Eric had available to him. I guess Showbiz Today on CNN wasn't interested. I didn't notice Stallone not knowing anything about Slamboree, but why should he know about it unless Jesse told him? His wrestling fandom, such as it may be, is likely limited to his time off. When Stallone first mentioned the movie he did that had something to do with wrestling, I thought he was talking about Rocky III. I wonder what would have happened if Stallone had mentioned Hogan's appearance in that movie. Would WCW have dared to censor Sly Stallone? Interesting to hear about Sly and Jesse's mutual passion for golf, which you wouldn't really expect from either of them. Yes, Eric looks a lot more comfortable interviewing movie stars than he does wrestlers. Maybe WCW would have been better off in the long run if he'd simply forgotten to come back to Atlanta.
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Terry was so much better than Eddie here it wasn't funny. I really like the fact that Terry's toned down the wackiness for his last two promos, because it shows that he's taking the upcoming match very seriously. I have no real idea why a guy from Texas wants to be the king of Philadelphia, but I'm convinced that Terry wants it and wants it badly. Eddie was off here. He seemed to be more worried about which one of Tod Gordon's dogs he should have killed than the match he's supposed to be out there talking about, and Tod doesn't look very presidential exchanging insults with him. ECW could have used a distinguished "greybeard" type as president whose main job was to sit on a set and send in videotapes, only rarely even showing up at the matches, let alone interacting with the wrestlers. It seems to be tailor-made for someone like Bruno, but I don't think he would have been on board with Heyman's extreme philosophy by a longshot. I give the promotion credit for bringing in names the Philly fans would know like Muraco and Jimmy Snuka, but based on how much they had left the last time we saw each of them in the ring, they should be glad they transitioned to younger guys like the Sandman, Tommy Dreamer, and Shane Douglas For those of you who may not follow the NHL, the New Jersey Devils (whose jersey Eddie was wearing during the segment) and the Philadelphia Flyers are bitter rivals. The only way Eddie could have conceivably gotten more heat is with a Pittsburgh Penguins jersey. I guess he couldn't find one so close to Philly.
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I liked the promos as much as the match itself. I got the feeling that I was listening to Leon White's true feelings aboiut being back in Japan, and the contrast between his soft-spoken but confident demeanor before the bout and how he shredded Nakano made him look even more awesome. He's been made to look great in WCW, but not this great. This was so decisive that it doesn't hurt Takano at all; if Vader can fight like that, no one breathing has a chance against him, no matter how talented. Nice to see that UWFI recognizes Vader as WCW World champion. Shoot-style is such a different discipline that I was wondering if Vader's "regular" pro wrestling credentials would carry any weight at all.