GOTNW

There are people today who when watching Golden Are matches (and matches preceeding it) prefer them to be working straight instead of with gimmicky nonsense. Similarly you've had several people in the past year or so speak out in how they prefer the way Thesz worked to how it was worked in Flair's time. The latter statements are still very much alive. If there's truth in it it's not going to go away. Ever. Not that it will stop the business from changing five more times.

Overrracting is the hip thing now. I'd much rather operate in a bubble if that's how I can get the most out of watching wrestling than complain about how I don't think the hip thing now isn't all that great. We'll see what'll happen once it's time to reevaluate things ten, fifteen years from now.

Calling this match shoot style or just shoot inspired might be the easiest way to get it over it but it would provide a shallow and historically inaccurate description. Shoot style was the creation of 1984 and 1988. New Japan continued to have its own style that would come in contact with the shootiness, but really started seriously flirting with it when they had the UWFi feud and then started bringing in Naoya Ogawa, Don Frye and so on. It peaked in the early 2000s as that was the peak of both PRIDE and Inoki's insanity, and you can see it in this match. It doesn't feel like UWF or RINGS or UWFi or PWFG. There's a distinct flair and style in this match-one that has maximized many of the elements of New Japan training Maeda used when creating the original style, but they also appropriate many of the elements used in modern combat fighting of the times such as soccer knees, knees on the ground etc. I know many aren't really fans of it, and politics and workers that couldn't thrive in the style could detract from it, but as far as looking for a good example of it being done right this might be your best bet. The brutality is just off the charts, but watching them fight for guard positions and takedowns and seeing how they set up the big spots is just as interesting. Shibata soccer kicking Fujita right in the eye is up there with the most brutal spots in wrestling history and you get a bunch of zoom ins at Fujita's swelling too. There was something chilling about the whole thing that's hard to put into words, during his entrance Shibata just completely covered his face with the towel and he ended it laying on the mat looking lifeless, as if he was a young lion going to a battle he wasn't ready for. ****1/2

The world's strongest 54 year old man clashes with a "Muscle Volcano" in one of my favourite sprints. It's funny, I mainly remembered the match for them busting out a bunch of junior offence, and on a rewatch that ruled too, but I also noticed other things that made the match as badass as it is. Tenryu's facial expressions when Kensuke corners him and starts pounding on him are a thing of beauty and really remind you this man is old enough to be a grandparent, particularly how he'd act like he was out of breath after being Lariated on the neck. Kensuke winding up for a Lariat and then eating a punch just as he was about to execute it ruled and the counter flash finish was great and caught me off guard yet again, and as great as Tenryu is that kind of quick counter really feels like the onyl way he could beat Kensuke at this point. Hectically kicking the air while being pinned can look silly but it was absolutely fitting here. Bonus points for Tenryu continuing to sell after the match. ***3/4

Kanemoto is such a great prick invader, it's a joy to watch. He completely overwhelms Sasaki in what is a near squash match just blasting him with slaps, kicks and knees. Sasaki does a pretty great job of someone defiant yet outmatched, like when he reaches for *anything* while he's stuck inbetween the ropes and in his childish facial expressions. Kanemoto is just above everyone here, and doesn't really care about the ref or any of Sasaki's pals that consistently yell at him ringside. My favourite moment may have been when Sasaki hit his first hope spot, started celebrating and Kanemoto quickly and swiftly took him down and trapped him in an Ankle Lock. Kanemoto's (running) knee cut offs ruled and the match had a brutal finish of Kanemoto just face punching Sasaki's lights out in a full mount. ****

I have a heard time envisioning enjoying a Misawa/Kawada match more than I did this one. Easily better than the june 94 one. The opening exchange was picture perfect-Kawada countering a Headlock with a surprise Backdrop instantly established him as a threat, and the strike teases that followed ruled too. I've talked about how those elaborate conter after counter sequences fit better at the beginning of the match than they do at the end but here it was just a badass 1-2 evasion, the kind you'd see in a real kickboxing or MMA fight. One might complain about how Kawada working the arm didn't lead anywhere-but it wasn't supposed too. It really isn't any different from the many New Japan matches where the same is done-just because he did armwinger and hammerlocks doesn't mean it's automatically limbowork. They're wear down holds just as much as the camel clutches and headlocks and are used in the same vain. Those long portions off grinding down the opponent with holds are one of the key elements of what makes the match work, along with the selling and the struggle. Take a look at the kick Kawada throws at a kneeled Misawa after the armwork. It's a good looking kick-but it could (and probably would) be brushed off in many different settings and styles. Here Misawa goes down, grabs his face and emotes pain in a very visceral way, really as much as you can in pro wrestling without going over the top, and it creates a huge dramatic moment. So when he goes on a comeback in means that much more. The sheer speed and intensity of Misawa's comebacks are unreal-quite possibly unmatched in wrestling history-but they just might be the last thing workers should be looking at when they try to rip him off. Somwhere around the middle of the match it started getting kind of repetitive, with Misawa doing a Bodyslam and a Vertical Suplex to no heat, really felt like he was trying to keep the crowd awake with the sound of bumping. They work the holds well and usually do enough things to make it interesting (Kawada busting out an amateur style single leg was badass) but it felt a little too long here at first. The finishing stretch that followed was pretty long as well, and while you could use that as a retroactive defence if this were a better match that issue simply wouldn't exist. The finishing stretch is built on great, exciting action-the kind of workrate where most wrestling fans can just sit back and enjoy. The desperation in the work ruled-whether it was Kawada trying to kick away at Misawa every time he'd just try to pick him up or desperately kicking away at his feet, Misawa eating a couple of Kawada's shots only to heroically stand up and fire back, or any of the million transitions that everyone gasped at. Which worked because the crowd believed the wrestler attempting a move could actually execute it. Unlike these days when wrestlers just run the ropes and run into moves. Stealing rope running moves when you're stealing transitions that depend on them should be a must. I was wondering how they could possibly finish a finishing stretch that gigantic with so many nearfalls and big moves in a satisfying way but Kawada's leg giving out and that allowing Misawa to nuke him was brilliant. A match worked in this style isn't going to make my list of favourite matches but for those big on it this is an absolute must watch. ****1/4

I would probably sooner (re)watch the most notorious Khali matches than do the same for Bret's. When I last watched some of his stuff (like the Benoit Nitro match, Austin Survivor Series match etc.) I was left with disappointment, feeling they were either bland and too oriented on workrate (in its form-like; executing a backbreaker well.) for me to really care about them or just weren't that great. Whike with Khali the matches are probably more likely to be bad if they were to be good his opponents would HAVE to approach then smartly, structure them around hierarchy, the size difference and overcoming it, which is way more interesting to me than the fact Bret could hit a move clean (it's no wonder he's a big Cody Rhodes supporter).

Coming from someone who hyped LA Park-Mesias as one of the best matches of the decade I can't tell if this is a troll or not.

Since they actually have interesting angles and storylines that pay off and consistently entertaining matches and freak shows and everything that makes the fake fighting work.

Well this was quite something. I appreciate how Nash and Hall managed to do goofy stuff like and got over more than all the workrate guys taking crazy floor bumps. The match itself is probably the closest anything actually mainstream in wrestling actually came to reminding of creepy wrestleporn videos. Didn't find it incredibly funny or anything but it wasn't offensive either. Probably worth including on the meme list.

I wouldn't really be interested in creating a thread for this or even talking about it if it was just some match between two backyarders, but it's two former WWE guys (or at least one. apparently the real clown wrestler is dead) so...I guess that kind of justifies my interest in it for me? This was a master class in terrible wrestling-everything you could hope for from a low brow indy. Two old guys that have no interest in taking bumps and seriously working having a falls count anywhere brawl in some random place in Alabama, which included them crossing the highway, a Hiptoss into bushes and them slamming each other into a truck. Heidenreich's 2016 babyface character uses a verbiage that is half repeating dumb pro wrestling catchphrases and half repeating every cringe inducing classic rock scream you can think of. "that's right baby, baby girl, yeah, suck it.......and so forth". Doink just insults random fans for whatever fault he can find in them. Absolutely worthy of making it onto the meme list.

There are videos of Fujiwara's submission demonstrations circulating around the web, I'd recommend watching those if you enjoy watching Fujiwara stretch people. This match is very reminiscent of those videos as Fujiwara speds the vast majority of it stretching whoever Ultraman Robin is, but he also incorporates a bunch of gags into it making it even more amusing. Ultraman Robin is completely outclassed and Fujiwara has him beat a million times but chooses to continue to stretch him, they tease you with him actually managing to hurt Fujiwara only to go right back to the torture spots, it's a blast.

This match is infamous because of Magee's incompetence, and it tells quite the story in two minutes. He starts the match almost looking like a competent pro wrestling, his chops and knees didn't look great but they were passable, he followed that up with some clubbing blows to Wajima's back, nothing really stood out as terrible. As Wajima climbs the apron he starts doing all these stupid kicks that just look laughable, and he manages to top it when he corners Wajima and starts throwing the most ridiculous and fake looking chops and kicks man has ever seen. By that point Wajima fights back and goes over, but the sight of Tom Magee and his dreaded spinning chop shall never be forgotten.

Great call, gonna check if there's a thread for it. Japanese microindies are full of weird stuff so naturally that'll be up there.

Common themes along these Cena metamodernistic classics: using a fire extinguisher and the Big Show corner chop. I'm not really sure what to think of the match. It's definitely worthy of being inducted in the list of meme matches, but it felt like a celebration of crappy overproduced wrestling more than anything, and as good as he has been in so many matches and promos this stuff does serve as a sort of reality check that a lot of his work has also just been not good. In terms of what made this work I would easily rank Ace's selling and acting (throwing himself out of the ring after the Airplane Spin was brilliant) and Michael Cole's enthusiastic biased commentary over the entirery of Cena's work. I did find the STF "torture" spots amusing, lord knows being trapped in Cena's loose STF is hardly the most terrifying thing that could happen to a man. I still maintain getting upset over stuff like this is naive but I am in no rush to seek out more of its kind now.

Rewatching this is just surreal. The Network and Immortal sound so distant yet unmistakeably genuine, you can tell my mind tried to surpress watching shitty TNA TV as much as possible. Hardy's music plays and it takes him about a minute longer to get on the stage, he looks weak, frail and completely out of it. He couldn't even throw his shirt to the crowd. I don't remember whether Bischoff coming out was an impromptu angle to buy time or just what was planned. The match consisted of a lock up, some worked punches and Sting hitting the Scorpion Death Drop for the win, with him holding down Hardy while he was trying to kick-out being the most absurd detail of the whole thing. It's hard to believe a company as big as TNA was at the time would allow a drugged out wrestler to "compete", sometimes you just had to see it to believe it.

I remember there was a period around 2010 or so where Cena was working the same type of match vs the main eventers and David Otunga and whatever NXT rookie they'd have him face which quite annoyed my 13 year old self. This match is very peculiar-you get to see Cena squash someone, but more importantly you get a sneak peak inside Vince McMahon's sick mind and how he perceives morality as a 45 year old non-wrestler is stripped, made to apologize and poured with barbecue souce. Cole's promo before the match was actually very good, I loved the way he gradually built himself up after escaping instant peril, to the point he reached arrogance, and then immediately reverted to being a complete coward once he got smacked. Actually his whole run might be underrated thinking about it. Cena's corny and over the top acting and verbiage seem to be the main things seperating a segment like this being considered as trash while similar AE segments are "cool".

A master class in overreacting and siliness. Even if it isn't a match that manages to maintain its charm so successfully nn rewatches I'm not sure there's a pro wrestling match that better encapsulates the idea of a wrestling match intertwined with Christmas themes. The match itself is structured like a cartoon fight, and you can see the transitions coming, although the novelty of the ridiculousness should overwhelm that on your first watch. I'm leaning towards including it even if it didn't completely live to my very fond memories of it-but then again all jokes lose their charm after repetition.

As the thread title says I will try to collect the most, ahem........bizarre, notorious, inexplicably amusing, terrible, so bad they're great, so bad they're just terrible matches. Recommendations would be welcome. Antonio Inoki vs Great Antonio (NJPW 12/8/1977) Antonio Inoki vs Masa Saito (Island Death Match; NJPW 10/4/1987) Hiroshi Wajima vs Tom Magee (AJPW 4/22/1988) Mokujin Ken vs Survival Tobita (Saitama Pro 8/23/1999) Al Snow vs Big Boss Man (WWF Unforgiven 09/26/99, Kennel in a Cell) Scott Hall & Kevin Nash vs Porn Stars (WCW Monday Nitro 10/25/99) Jerry Lawler vs Dean Malenko (Over The Top Rope, Off With The Top; WWF 6/26/2000) Yoshiaki Fujiwara vs Ultraman Robin (F*CK 10/9/2006) Sting vs Jeff Hardy (TNA Victory Road 3/13/2011) John Cena vs John Laurinaitis (WWE Over The Limit 5/20/2012) John Cena vs Michael Cole (WWE Raw 6/4/2012) John Cena vs Alberto Del Rio (Miracle on 34th Street Fight, WWE Raw 12/18/2012) Heidenreich vs Doink The Clown (AWF 5/21/2016) Chris Jericho vs Dean Ambrose (WWE Extreme Rules 5/22/2016) Matt Hardy vs Jeff Hardy (The Final Deletion) 7/5/2016

You need to take that presumption people like wrestling ironically and to prove points and sincerely fuck off.

The answer is it's probably never going to change, but if you earnestly want it to whining about how WON or whomever else doesn't cover lucha enough or treat it as important as japanese wrestling is both completely pointless and incredibly counterproductive. Create your own lists, make your own platforms, pimp the matches you want people to see without burying the wrestling they like you might not. (it's not like we have a moty thread on this very board or anything...)

In cultural anthropology it's widely accepted every culture should be discussed based on its own norms since attempts for "universal criteria" tend to end up in white supremacy, alt-right stuff. So I would say it is absolutely an appropriate reaction to tell the chamoion of western canon he is full of shit on this one, especially aince this is all happening because he sought to get into and understand various different styles of pro wrestlig and failed in doing so but yet insisted on claiming people "have" to rank certain wrestlers, and even went as far as to rank wrestlers he doesn't like to legitimize his point. But sure, my post was pointless.

I don't remember the lucha fans being the ones who turned into self loathing communists over a project about ranking wrestlers.

I am hardly the biggest Tanahashi fan you'll find but I always at least try to acknowledge what he does that works, whether it be for the crowd or me specifically and what I dislike. Obviously there's a world of difference in how good I think he is and how WON & VOW bots think he is but as long as I enjoy some of what he does he'll remain a worker I'll care to write more about than just "he sucks". Unlike say Dragon Gate stuff, which just isn't for me and is never going to be, and there's nothing I'd really accomplish by watching a bunch of matches and going in knowing I'm extremely likely to dislike them. Also if your take is "Kobashi sucks" or even "Kobashi is a heavily flawed worker" but there are 200 japanese workers you enjoy a lot it's a lot different than talking shit about Casas, Santo, Dandy etc. and not caring for mexican wrestling altogether.

With a guy dressed as a Tiger doing lucha spots. Kinda. Pro-wrestling is ridiculous. UWF1 wasn't even a proper shoot style organization, but Sayama quickly threw the mask away as well as all his lucha spots.