Danish Dynamite

OK, Matt D... Rewatched a bunch of Hart Foundation per your challenge... And I think the issue is, they still feel like a top 10 team to me. But I came to the same conclusion I've done with others (definetely in the singles section): I have more than 10 "locks" for my top 10... So there will be surefire top 10 teams and wrestlers placed at 15, and maybe even 20 :-) :-) :-) ... Loving most wrestling pre-2000, and some post, has just never really forced me to actually rank the workers before, except for in more closed off votes (favorite team of 1990, favorite WWF 80's cartoony character, favorite AWA tag team etc.), so this is damn more challenging than I initially took it for... But the lists are shaping up slowly, but steadily. And I will for sure have The Funks, Kawada/Taue, Misawa/Kawada, Arn & Tully, The Rock n' Roll Express, The Midnight Express (definetely the Condrey/Eaton version), the original Freebirds and a couple of others ahead of The Hart Foundation... and that annoys the hell out of me, but there it is :-) ... For the matches (I won't do full match reviews and ratings here, that will just make this post even more ridiculously long...): I was confirmed that I liked them better as heels, but not by as much as I used to think... There was a good match against the face Rougeau Brothers form sep 86 (Yes, I like the Rougeaus, and yes I prefer them as heels as well...). The Hart's did good heel work against them, and I think Neidhart carried his load in the beginning. I liked their matches against The Killer Bees (liked the mar 87 one more than the Saturday Night's Main Event), but I'll never really get into the Bees. They had good matches against The Young Stallions and Strike Force. Pretty basic structure, but very enjoyable. And then The Bulldogs matches. See, they haven't aged as well as I would have hoped for, but I really did enjoy that combination, and as was discussed in the Bret Hart thread, there is a lot of truth to the statement, that his matches get better and better, when he gets the chance to work, and rework, and work again with the same guys, so they can map out the matches. It's a little tedious if you watch an entire series of his matches against someone, but it's interesting if you want to study the slow and steady evolution of the in-ring work they do. Sort of like watching the same play in the theatre on a number of different nights. Opening night is filled with nerves, and can be intense, but it's rarely the best show of the entire run. Let the players settle in to their parts, and often that's when the magic happens. So if I was just looking for one good match in a Bret series, I'd usually go for one of the latter ones (case in point, the matches against Curt Hennig). That was their work as heels. My preferred Hart Foundation. And no, they hadn't aged quite as well as hoped for. I still really dug them though. But their face work, which I wasn't quite as keen on... I was actually pleasently surprised... Masterclass in outstanding wrestling? Not a lot. Fun? To my surprise, yes... Obviously the once forgotten, but now often mentioned matches against The Rockers are really cool. I really like the 11/25/89 match. It does have the shittiest duo on commentary ever in Gorilla (a guy I don't care if people are down on, I love him!) and Hillbilly Jim. Man, they suck ass. They're fun in a stupid way, but they're not good... Loved the match though. The other obvious one is SummerSlam 89 against The Brainbusters. I know it's been talked down a bit over the years, but I feel that's more to do with the fact that it was rated so high to begin with, and when some claimed it one of the greatest tag matches ever, it sent a lot of people onto the barricades armed with a shitload of stuff most people hadn't seen back then. Sure, there's many tag matches that are objectively better. But that doesn't mean this one isn't great. Just means we're blessed with many awesome matches. I love this one. And I will have both these teams in my top 25 (Arn & Tully above The Harts, but I'm sticking to my guns: The Harts are in...) The SummerSlam 90 match against Demolition I used to really dislike. And I think that helped this watching. My expectations were very low. I was entertained. Neidhart has pretty much checked out, but I never thought I'd see semi-decent performances from Demolition-Crush and from Smash. 5-star match? Hell no! But I completely underrated this match, and Bret's performance, earlier. WM7 against The Nasty Boys I really, really liked. Anvil is still not mentally present. And it's more or less a push for the upcoming Bret singles run. It works, it's fun. I love all kinds of wrestling, and most settings, and usually I totally dig a big arena feel, but somehow I would have loved to see this excact match set in some small, dingy arena, where The Nasty's could actually feel nasty. But it still works for me. The kind of match I would rewatch just for a fun passtime. And then the one, big WTF... I have always hated their WM5 match against the fucked up team of Honky and Hammer, Rhythm n' Blues... Honky is one of my least favorite guys of all time (he made me hate him, so he worked as a heel! ... But I still hated him...) and Valentine (who I love!) was apparently taking some time off... But fuck it... I liked this match when rewatching it... Honky sucks, but is hateable in the match. Hammer is nowhere near his peak (nor his later work), but there's shades of good Valentine here, and it is easily one of his two or three best Rn'B performances (not saying much, I know). I generally like Bret's selling (I know some don't, but it always got me), and they do a good mix of offense, selling and playing dirty even though they've turned. This is not a masterpiece, but it was surprisingly good. So all in all: I cooled a little bit on their earlier heel work, which I used to absolutely love. But to my surprise I warmed a bit to their later work. In-ring that was all Bret though, but I like him so that makes sense. They are not top 5. They're still on my list. Thanks for the motivation to dig back into the big box of pink n' black attack, Matt :-)

Think Parv's placing him below Ivan and Ladd, but way above Kamala and The Samoans is spot on. I like Khan, but he won't make my 100 either. I haven't seen the 82 Andre match in quite a while, but remember being quite into that one. Solid, but I agree with the point that he was maybe a bit unfortunate timing wise. Could have been really big a decade earlier.

Will do. I have recently seen them against The Brainbusters and The Bulldogs and really enjoyed those matches. And I know I liked The Hart's performance against Demolition and The Nasty Boys, even if the matches didn't blow me away. But I'll have another look at them to see. I do have a feeling though, that some rank them lower than they might deserve for contrarian reasons, and that I rank them higher than they deserve for contrarian to the contrarian reasons :-) ... But I'll have another look at them.

Hahaha!!!! Yes! Virgil's my Private Parts!!!... Or not really... Fuck it, you know what I mean :-) Good choice!

Would also love so much to rank them. So much going for them. But there's so many great teams, and their run was so brief. Heart might beat mind though, so I'm counting them out completely just yet...

General Confusion, Lt Lobotomy and Private Parts? I suck at that game, but would love to hear JT and Will rock it :-)

Didn't grow up on Memphis at all. They were black n' white magazine photos to me. Catching up though, partly inspired by this project and Will's recommendations on the podcasts (thanks, man!). Lawler/Dundee are climbing up my singles and tag lists slowly, but steadily.

Always enjoyed this team. Fuji's other two WWF teams are guilty pleasures, stupid but kinda fun. Fuji/Saito was seriously a good duo. I'm considering putting them on the list somewhere...

It was the 80's :-) There's no such thing as "too much" :-)

Hehe, Johnny :-) One's gotta take care with one's movie references around you. I like it! ... Agree with Parv on the team. I think they hands down are the best WWF team through to 81. And maybe a bit further that... I'm not 100% convinced another team decisively outperforms them until The Bulldogs get there. The Funk Brothers are a better team, obviously, but are they better i WWF? Not to me. I really enjoy Fuji & Saito, so maybe them. I also enjoy US Express, Soul Patrol, Foreign Legion (Sheik/Volkoff) and others, but none of them decisively more then Rick & Tony. Maybe The Wrecking Crew on their best days?

Yeah, I don't get the anti-Harts attitude. It might be a Pandora's Box to open, but would they be more appreciated by the "smart" fans, if they hadn't been in the WWF, and had worked in Memphis, Mid-South or Crockett instead? I get the "WWF tag scene was overrated and the company unfairly overshadows some brilliant promotions", but the WWF wasn't a big pile of crap, and if people are really down on The Pink n' Black Attack, that would make me feel The Hart Foundation is a pretty under rated tag team... Could see them as high as my top 10.

Agreed. Tragically under represented on the big cards, but lots of newly available footage helps them. Such a solid team. A longer run and bigger push could have put them high on my list. Afraid they're gonna end up not on the list though. A big "could've been". Really enjoyable team.

El-P: True... I like Ax & Smash Demolition. I can't stand Smash & Crush Demolition. Have a funny feeling it's mainly Bill Eadie I like :-)

Sometime during a drunken binge in 1985/1986 Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage and Barry Windham drive a truck full of cocaine and steroids through the window of a Burger King, while screaming the n-word and stabbing each other with scissors. They're all banned from the business. Who takes their places?

In a way both. But if I had to rank the four "options" mentioned by people here (good/bad big and good/bad small), I think I'd go: 1: Good small, where the details are as close to believable as possible, but still entertaining and engaging. 2: Good big, where the huge bumps are well done and the big selling has a point. 3: Bad big, where it's over the top and pointless bumping. The circus. 4: Bad small, where the attempt at realism and focus on detail forgets character and story. The cliche of boring mat work. I'd rather be entertained by the stupidity, than bored to tears. Yet, I'd rather be impressed by storytelling, character and detail than just by spectacle.

I agree with pantherwagner on that :-) ... JT is almost completely aligned with my nostalgia vote (his begins with 90 WWF and my total nostalgia would also include 87-89 WWF). Back then there was pretty much no way of getting Memphis, Mid-South, Crockett or anything like it in Denmark, so I was all WWF. Flash forward and the stuff I've liked best of all I've been exposed to since, more often than not aligns with Will's tastes. It's like 10-year old me and 35-year old me is making a podcast together :-) ... The combo of your different tastes and styles is a great match.

I think those two sides of the argument are really valid and interesting. If his best work is the planned out or at least rehersed or "done before" matches, what can we say about his ability to adapt to change or audibles?

I have a feeling that there was way more potential in them, than they ever got to show. Maybe if the gimmick hadn't so clearly had the Road Warriors look, they could have gone furrther. Maybe if they'd gone full Conan with the Barbarian and Warlord gimmick, instead of that weird facepaint, kinda like a couple of other teams but not really look... I'm all for face painted wrestlers, no problem. I like it no less than masks at least. But while they were in PoP they never looked like a barbarian and a warlord to me. Maybe a weird point :-) ... I do feel like they might actually have had more potential in ring, than their Demolition / Road Warriors counter parts. So other factors have been decisive for their career, and will be part of why they're not in my top25...

Damn... Recently wrote they'd be around no 20 for me... Started a prelim list, and found out I had about 40 teams in my top 25 :-/ ... I think Demolition are out...

Haha :-) I agree! ... The stupid gimmick worked. But suck he did :-) ... Favorite Honky match? Maybe the awful SummerSlam Warrior squash :-)

Jingus: the Shawn match wasn't really for me, but I'm with you pretty much all the way besides that. And you named a couple I really wanna revisit :-)

I'm a Freebird-fan-who-has-them-in-my-top-5, what's your excuse?

I'm gonna have them high as well.

Agree. I'm on board with this team.

Yeah, well... I think I started off with his two or three best matches, 'cause I liked him, when I first saw him... Then I saw a lot more of him... Damn, I would have loved for him to be as good as my initial impression...