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Everything posted by Microstatistics
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#7 Stan Hansen My #33. So he falls out of the Top 3/5 but perhaps not surprisingly because there didn't seem much hype around him this time around. I didn't rank him in 2016 but have completely come around and think he was truly excellent. AJPW was his yard for the absolute best work of his career but he was effective in practically every territory, especially Puerto Rico with that wonderful Carlos Colon feud.
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You know the work is great when a match goes 5, perhaps even 10, minutes too long and yet manages to keep your attention the whole time. Very cool start as Elgin has Naito's tricks scouted and attempts to flatten him, while Naito attacks the leg for an opening. The knee attacks/eye rakes cut-offs were great and Elgin sold really well. Smaller heel vs. larger babyface is hard to pull off but they nail it here. The leg work sort of fizzles out after the big submission counter but it makes sense as Naito needed to resort to bombs to actually put away Elgin away. This one really puts Naito over huge too as he endures a real hiding here but keeps defiantly bouncing back. One of the best of 2017.
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[2005-06-26-WWE-Vengeance] Shawn Michaels vs Kurt Angle
Microstatistics replied to Loss's topic in June 2005
I think people are wildly underselling this one, it completely demolished my expectations. While the Wrestlemania bout is really good, this is the match I wanted from them. Off-the-charts intensity and struggle right from the get-go and sustained pretty much through the whole thing. Kurt was an absolute beast on control, zeroing in on Shawn's neck through the middle sections. HBK was HBK and brought a dead crowd alive with his comebacks & selling but this was a Kurt Angle clinic. The neck to leg/ankle transition was the most organic I've seen in an Angle match. They even got in a few big near falls for the epic feel. Clever finish too. Honestly, this is the best match of 2005. -
#8 Rey Mysterio Jr. My second biggest omission and looking at that % of ballots, I'm a real exception here. The guy could have a good match in his sleep regardless of opponent and setting, but was found to be lackluster when it came to my main criteria (high-end matches vs. a variety of opponents) and so was one of the final cuts. Still, I get his case and understand this placement.
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#10 Mitsuharu Misawa My #11. Ok he came dangerously close to falling out there. Nobody was better at embodying the concept of a wrestling "ace" than him. He is hurt by a lack of variety in opponents but he was exponentially better against the corners than they were against each other in singles bouts. #9 Bret "Hitman" Hart My #15. Glad he made it this time. There was discussion about the 91-97 peak being his main case and while that's probably true, it's one of the greatest peaks in history so no qualms about it. I ranked Austin Top 50 but there's no way he should be above these two on an aggregate list.
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#11 Aja Kong I like Austin a lot but it should really have been her if it wasn't Eddie for the Top 10. My #28 and second highest joshi wrestler. Her 1994 is one of the all time great individual years, though she has 30 years of good work now. I ranked 8 out of the 10, but only 2 were in my Top 10.
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#12 Eddie Guerrero Ah what a tease, so close to the Top 10 and ends up finishing at the same spot as 2016. My #8. I've said it before but at his absolute best, there was arguably no one in history who was better.
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#13 Hiroshi Tanahashi @Tetsujin Yes, he had one of the highest points per vote yet, but a relatively lower presence on overall ballots. The polarization hurt him I suppose. Was rooting for a Top 10 finish for a modern era representative but alas. I am guilty here since he was one of my big omissions as there are other modern NJPW guys that I think are much, much better. Still, looking at his 22+ year career, I understand the appeal and the #1 votes. At least one of Eddie, Kong, and Austin is going to make the Top 10. Not what I would have expected before the process.
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#15 Vader My #20. I don't think you can find a better word than "durable" to describe Vader. Pit him against European aces, shoot-style artists, US babyfaces, Puro legends etc. and he would do Vader things and deliver the goods. Moreover, the minimal variability of his standing across three polls (#17, #14, and now #15) spanning twenty years really tells you how resilient his style really is. #14 Toshiaki Kawada He did fall out of the Top 10, which was to be expected, but not a huge shift. I put him at #41. Honestly, while he was generally in the mix for a number of the legendary bouts, the unorthodox stuff like the rivalry vs. Gary Albright is what made his case for me.
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Voted for 12 out of the remaining 15. Only 3 in my Top 10 and 5 in Top 15. All 12 were Top 50 though. Aja and Tanahashi sort of replacing Lawler and Liger makes sense considering the rise of Joshi/modern favorites and the fall of territories/90s juniors. Also, I guess you have things like Jumbo dropping (expected) and a boost to Austin but, otherwise, the very top of the list in terms of who is there is not really that different from 2016. The sequence remains to be seen of course.
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#17 Mick Foley Definitely an over-performance but makes sense considering the Samoa Joe effect (presence on well over 80% of ballots) and the hardcore/death match affinity boost. Had him at #35. Perhaps the greatest bumper in history of course but intelligent and creative to boot with sound fundamentals. #16 "The Dangerous Queen" Akira Hokuto @Boss Rock My #16 as well so perfect alignment. So Aja is the highest ranked woman but I would have flipped them: To me, Hokuto is the greatest women's wrestler ever and it's not even close.
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Yes, the list so far furthers the theory that Bryan and Funk are gonna be Top 2 and it's just a matter of the order. The modern US indie bump vs. the hardcore/death/chaotic style bump.
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#20 Samoa Joe Marveling at that 81.67% ballots statistic, it explains how he made it so far. Had him at #73. The mid-2000s peak is famous and because of NXT/WWE and especially AEW, he has the longevity now as well. #19 Jumbo Tsuruta Similar to Hashimoto, another guy I'm not as high on as I used to be. Put him at #38 due to an 80s lull but few were better in the 70s and early 90s. #18 AJ Styles My #18 too so bullseye. Easily one of the greatest American wrestlers. I'd rate TNA > NJPW > WWE in terms of runs, with the WWE tenure peaking super early but he was never less than very good.
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#22 El Hijo del Santo My #3. Part of my wrestling holy trinity as the best Mexican wrestler, alongside the best American wrestler (Shawn Michaels) and best Japanese wrestler (Kenta Kobashi). The lack of a Top 20 finish is disappointing, but the mammoth points per vote is immense. Endlessly versatile with great matwork, great high flying, and great power moves, but I'm starting to think brawling was his real hallmark, to the point where he might be better at it than anyone else. #21 Randy "Macho Man" Savage Singularly charismatic, I will give him that. His performance in the WM3 IC title is tremendous and the "Nothing means Nothing" promo might be the greatest in history.
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#30 Negro Casas Neat, Santo takes the top luchador place. Casas fell out of favor for a little while there for me, especially relative to Santo and Satanico, but a late surge ensured at #40 placement. His versatility and longevity are well documented. Glad he is still Top 30. #29 Kenny Omega I was wondering when he would drop and am happy with this showing. Easily one of the most polarizing guys as is evident but personally think he is one of the more brilliant big match wrestlers in history. Had him at #14. #28 Jerry "The King" Lawler My #43. Of course I'm not as high on him as his biggest fans are but can recognize it takes something special to pull off that stuff vs. Andy Kaufman (particularly the first match) and the quasi-shoot vs. Snowman. #27 Kazuchika Okada Similar to Moxley, another guy I barely talked about. He ended up as my highest native modern NJPW talent at #21, beating even Naito. Honestly, don't even really know what to say about him except that for a 10+ year stretch from the early 2010s onwards, you can count on one hand wrestlers who were better than him globally. #26 Shinya Hashimoto My #37. Not as high on him as I used to be a couple of years ago but he was a wonderful wrestler nonetheless. 1996 and onwards is where his career really clicked for me. #25 Jushin "Thunder" Liger Ah, another guy who just had to fall. Put him at #9 in the end but was actually considering putting him outside the Top 10 for a second (something unthinkable ten years ago) so myself am lower on him. But the two Sano matches and the Samurai match are an ungodly peak and perhaps the bulk of his case for me, though he had great stuff across the 90s and early 2000s and good stuff for like 35 years. #24 Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat My #27 so very close. One of the more universal wrestlers for sure based on the > 75% ballot appearance. #23 CM Punk Finally. This finish makes me almost regret ranking him (#80) at all.
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While many of my favorites dropped earlier than I hoped, I'm fine with the Top 30. CM Punk (someone I ranked btw) is the only one who seems questionably high. Lawler and Liger survive and I'm surprised Samoa Joe and Mick Foley made it this high. #32 Chigusa Nagayo #31 Bull Nakano Joshi heavyweights drop. Had them at #45 and #79, respectively, and both were likely underestimations.
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#34 Nick Bockwinkel Another guy who was always going to fall I suppose but not a bad showing. Had him at *only* #51 but do think he is exceptional, great at every facet of pro wrestling. #33 John Cena Ok, not as high as I feared. I don't mean to bag on Cena, who I don't even consider to be that bad (the Brock maulings are great) but don't think he belongs near this company.
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#40 L.A. Park He fell out of my list at the last second so I won't argue with this placement even if there are luchadors I prefer. Need to watch more of his 90s stuff. #39 Jon Moxley Realized I didn't actually talk about him during the process. Sure he has (had?) some goofy tendencies, with the faux badass stuff and blading over a slight breeze, but that's really losing the forest for the trees. Because since 2019 he has been on an absolute tear and is easily one of the best wrestlers of the decade. Creative, violent, versatile, fundamentally sound, and ambitious. My #31 and I'm glad he did so well. #38 Jun Akiyama Didn't really give him too much attention during the process when I put him at #19, though I like the recent DDT stuff. An unreal career in many ways where the guy was rarely less than good for 30 years and had some substantial peaks. #37 Shawn Michaels Glad he got a couple of #1s. He beat Santo at the last minute to take the #2 spot for me. The relatively high points per vote is telling. I've said more than enough about Shawn and his standing/perception I think. #36 Antonio Inoki My #30, though I'm wondering if I should have put him closer to #25. A deserved resurgence. #35 Akira Taue My #58. Great, super intelligent wrestler even if I don't think he comes close to Kobashi and Misawa and is beaten by Kawada on variety.
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What makes you say that? I got 33 left, 26 from my Top 40.
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@Control21 I had Tamura at #5 vs. Han at #36. Tamura beat him on points per vote at least too (68.6 versus 64.9). My theory is that if you are lower/moderate on shoot-style, you'll favor Han for reasons outlined. If you are a stylistic purist, you'll prefer Tamura for the depth. Cena over Fujinami is a travesty. Cena over a lot of wrestlers is actually but at least he beat them (Fujiwara, Satanico etc.) in 2016 too. Fujinami was #20 in 2016. I don't understand the fall, especially with the (desirable) rise of Inoki. I'll take solace in the fact that Shawn and Omega are still kicking. Really hope Santo, Hokuto, and AJ Styles are astronomically high.
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#50 Atsushi Onita Didn't realize he ranked in 2016 as well. I understand the appeal, being the top guy in a niche territory. #49 Volk Han Interesting how he ends up on more ballots than Tamura. Broader appeal due to more flamboyant matwork? He dropped slightly and placed at #36 by the end for me, which is probably an underestimation considering he was great from his first match to the last and gelled with everyone he faced. #48 Sting Someone I need to see more of beyond the surfer days and the retirement match. #47 Blue Panther Someone I respect more than one I am enamored with. #46 Yoshiaki Fujiwara Slight decline but not terrible. Highest points per vote yet I believe so that's something. Not much else to say, a Mt. Rushmore wrestler for me at #4. #45 Meiko Satomura The female Takayama for me in that she should really click for me in practice based on the theoretical stylistic appeal but doesn't. #44 Andre the Giant I thought he was at his best during his youth (late 60s France) for singles bouts and later was largely more of a solid hand in tags/trios. #43 "Rowdy" Roddy Piper My #48 so fairly close. Great peaks and multifaceted presence. #42 Tatsumi Fujinami Noo, disappointing fall. Moreover, I can't believe Inoki beat him. My #13, dropping from #5 in 2016, not because my opinion of him has lessened but because my priorities/criteria for evaluating wrestlers have evolved. But his career was something else with the innovative 70s matwork being akin to wrestling sci-fi and him coming back from a debilitating back injury like nothing happened. He looked pretty good as late as 2024. A technical master if there ever was one. #41 Manami Toyota Very influential and strong in tags but I'd rate many other Joshi wrestlers ahead of her.
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The 50s were harsh on my Top 10 with Gunther, Tamura, and now Satanico out. I voted for 37 out of the 50 (33 in my Top 50 and 18 in my Top 25). I agree with the general consensus about the stylistic and era variety even if I'm not a fan of some of the individual selections. Great to see Moxley, Inoki, and Piper there though. #52 El Satánico My #6. I've waxed poetic about Satanico in the past so don't have much to add but the lack of a Top 50 spot is indeed disappointing. That #1 vote from @ohtani's jacket is great though. #51 Dump Matsumoto Huh, didn't do as well as I thought she would. A case where I understand the abstract appeal but feel she really needed someone providing the actual match structure to be there at the other end (mainly Chigusa) for the whole package to work.
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#55 Kurt Angle My experience with Angle was interesting because I've historically been only moderately high on him. But he just kept going up and up the more I watched of him and finished at #32 by the end. Easily one of the best wrestlers of the 2000s, particularly in the 2001-2006 period. #54 Kiyoshi Tamura I was really hoping for a Top 50 finish but at least he gained spots I guess. My #5 and the greatest specialist in wrestling history. #53 Katsuyori Shibata Sort of see the appeal but he was never one I was particularly fond of.
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#60 "The Enforcer" Arn Anderson The first of the 2016 Top 20 to drop and not surprisingly considering the macro trends. I found his place there to be questionable in all honesty. Very good, very consistent utility player, though. #59 Gunther My #10. Someone I had penciled in for #15-#25 who just kept rising and rising until he cracked the Top 10. The initial wXw phase might be underrated and hold more quality than expected, but the 2017/18 is where he really exploded into life. Let's say from late 2017/early 2018 to 2023, there was simply no one better in the world at big matches, commonly against wrestlers who never hit those heights with anyone else. 2024 onwards, perhaps due to booking weaknesses, the high-end match quality has dropped but the floor sustains as his TV work is probably Top 3-5 in the world as he delivers a strong match almost independent of the opponent. Can be stylistically constrained but no Top 3 vote is disappointing. One of the finest workers of the century for sure. #58 The Rock Probably the most significant validation of the "aura" theory. Even when I saw he made the main list, I never expected him to be closer to 50 than 100. #57 "El Generico" Sami Zayn My #53 so pretty close. The indie run, mid-2010s NXT/WWE potential peak, and the 2022-23 resurgence make for a modern great. #56 Devil Masami I'm considerably lower on her than Chigusa (and perhaps even Jaguar and Lioness) but still enjoy her style and understand the appeal. That points per vote is one of the highest thus far and says a lot.
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#62 "The Great Muta" Keiji Muto #61 Hulk Hogan My #69 and #66, respectively. They just HAD to be back-to-back; I actively disliked them a decade ago and while a few flaws persist (idiosyncratic selling and the laziness of the hulk-up, respectively), I've mainly come around based on their distinct charm and great matches across multiple decades.