Boss Rock

Thanks all!

Apart from the Park matches, what are some standout matches from Santo's 2000-01?

While I would probably rate Casas higher due to longevity and versatility, Satanico has the highest peaks of any luchador I've seen. The El Dandy feud is my favorite Lucha series with the December 1990 match being one of my all-time favorites. Also love his stuff with Morgan and the brawl he had with a young Atlantis. And while I said Casas probably surpasses him in longevity, there are quite a few late 90's-early 00's Satanico matches I like. Very strong top 25 candidate.

Santo was one of my favorite discoveries of the last year. Such a crisp and precise high-flier with tons of awesome brawls. It took me a little while to appreciate the Casas matches but they're awesome.

Great write-up Cap!

@elliott once referred to Foley as the "smartest dumb wrestler" and he was spot on. He put his body through an obscene amount of punishment while construcing some pretty incredible matches. While a lot of his best matches had weapons or were No DQ, considering how many "meh" plunder matches you see nowadays, it's clear that simply using weapons in a match or taking a crazy bump doesn't automatically make a match great. It's also funny to see how guys like Orton or Triple H never reached the heights they did with Foley in similar match types. He just had such a great sense of creating chaos. And for all the stupid bumps he took, they were done to make his opponents look like all-stars. He's been in my preliminary top 30 for a bit and while I'm not sure that's where he'll end up, he's a pretty safe lock.

The entire story and narrative of the match. You have the young, cocky, yet dominant ace defending against the prodigal son turned sentimental favorite. The ace questions whether or not the sentimental favorite has what it takes to be the best. The favorite questions the ace's toughness. You have Okada trying to big league and beat Shibata at his own game only to fail and thus decide it's wiser to go back to his bread and butter. But Shibata lands that big shot which throws Okada off his game and he decides to play into Shibata's strategy. And Shibata's onslaught is all the more effective because of A) how well Okada sells everything and B ) this is the first time Okada has ever been so thoroughly dominated and overwhelmed by a superior striker and grappler. It's one of those "he's been on the top so long, he kinda had this coming". He's only able to outlast and win the match because Shibata gets TOO caught up in beating him up and not sealing the deal. Shibata never had this match with Ishii, Goto, or Suzuki because they're similar, hard-hitting wrestlers so their matches were more bull-moose fights. He never had this match with Tanahashi because the latter was a defending hero who, while he could play heel, never had the same level of cockiness and desire for one ups-manship Okada had. The story and action aren't nearly as effective without Okada's franchise player at 29 character.

The Tenryu match is one of the most impressive carry jobs in recent memory. Not sure I would call it a "good" match because Tenryu had no business doing anything in a wrestling ring, but they put together a match that worked and that has to be a feather in Okada's cap. The Suzuki rain match wasn't their best together but still really good. It worked their typical formula and they did a great job adjusting to the slippery mat. I also agree with Okada-Shibata being the best match of the 2010's. As amazing as Shibata was, there's no way he has that match with anyone else. For Okada tag matches, these are all good ones: w/Shinsuke Nakamura vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi and Tetsuya Naito 12/23/2013 w/Kazushi Sakuraba vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi and Katsuyori Shibata 11/7/2015 w/Tomohiro Ishii vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi and Katsuyori Shibata 12/19/2015 w/YOSHI-HASHI vs. Naomichi Marufuji and Toru Yano 8/10/2016 w/Gedo vs. Kota Ibushi and TAKA Michinoku 9/4/2017 w/Tomohiro Ishii vs. Kota Ibushi and Kenny Omega 9/30/2018 w/Hiroshi Tanahashi, Hirooki Goto, and Kota Ibushi vs. Manabu Nakanishi, Satoshi Kojima, Hiroyoshi Tenzan, and Yuji Nagata 2/22/2020 w/Toru Yano and SHO vs. YOSHI-HASHI, Hirooki Goto, and Tomohiro Ishii 8/9/2020 w/Toru Yano and SHO vs. YOSHI-HASHI, Hirooki Goto, and Tomohiro Ishii 9/11/202

I did forget to mention that one, yes. Not sure where it ranks for me in company history but it's definitely great.

One of the best at getting the most out of very little. The Diesel, DBS, Undertaker, and Magee matches are obviously the most famous, but he could also have entertaining matches against guys like Shango or Bigelow. Very crisp and sharp-looking offense and a very realistic bumper/seller. But while Bret was great at structuring matches against lesser opponents, he could also be very dry or, dare I say, too logical. Take the cage matches against Owen and Diesel for example. They're worked very realistically as both competitors constantly try to escape, but at times it feels like that's literally all they're doing. Logical? Yes. Entertaining? Not particularly. And apart from the Mania 13 Austin match, I don't think he has a ton in the way of true, bonafide classics. That's not to say stuff like the aforementioned Diesel Survivor Series match or Austin '96 matches aren't great, but they never quite reach top-tier level for me. That all being said, I'm interested in seeing any gems from his WCW run. I've heard that it's largely bad, but I want to give it a shot. Also, are there any great Hart Foundation tag matches?

Savage is an interesting one for me. He has obvious positives in his ability to be convincing as both a heel and face (the European tour matches with Shawn are great) and for his ability to get excellent matches out of the Ultimate Warrior of all people. But there's so much of his 80's work I've seen where he's stalling and doing hide the weapon for 2/3 of the match. No matter how charismatic he is, those types of things are my least favorite tropes in wrestling. I'm not saying wrestling has to just be action, action, action all the time (although admittedly I love action-heavy matches), but after 10 minutes of jawing at the ref and refusing to do anything I'm asking myself how much longer is this match? That being said, I think he was just too versatile and too intelligent to not make my ballot. But not sure he'll crack the top 50 just yet.

Just more of a personal preference really. Mat-heavy matches aren't always my cup of tea and 90's Fujinami seemed more likely to trade strikes or have grittier fights against guys like Tenryu or Hash. That being said, the '86 Maeda match is still my favorite.

Honestly, most of my favorite Fujinami matches are from the 90's. No doubt he was a great technician in the 70's and 80's, but I prefer his 90's work.

The aforementioned Grave Consequences match is a great example of Fenix in storytelling mode.

Thanks!

I will say another annoyance is, like mentioned above, comebacks coming too easy. But his offense is so exciting it's hard for him to fall outside of "pretty good" territory.

Really interested in how his post-WWE run goes. His initial NXT run was a bit of a disaster but as soon as he turned heel it all clicked. Part of perhaps the greatest NXT world title matches and his MR feud with Rey was a lot of fun until the book was yanked from Heyman. The little bit I've seen from him as La Sombra is good but it seems like his best work was as NXT champ.

Very strong top 10 candidate right now.

I love 90's Fujinami. The aforementioned Hashimoto series of course, but also the G1 final against Hase and the nose break Dome match against Tenryu.

Not sure where I stand on Christian yet, but I thought his recent match with Kazarian was really good.

Thanks!

I'm begging them to put him in BOSJ, just to show how good he still can be.

Thanks!

Morton's another one I'd like to see a case made for. The Flair cage match is terrific and there some perfectly good Rn'R-MX tags I've seen, but apart from that I don't really know where to start. It also doesn't help that, like I said in the Eaton thread, the Rn'R-MX series has never really knocked my socks off.

A master of versatility who can adapt to almost any situation. You can look up any random indie Dick Togo match on Youtbe and find something that's at least pretty fun. Take this match for example. No ropes, just a mat against a guy who's only been wrestling for 5 months. And his peak stuff is pretty terrific. Obviously the Michinoku Pro tags with Kaientai DX and against Honda, but he has loads of awesome DDT matches against Ibushi, HARASHIMA, Gedo, and even Sanshiro Takagi. Tons of really good U.S. and Japan indie matches as well. A very strong top 30 contender.