ethantyler

Re Bob Ellis - strongest draw in the Historical section. That's the gist of the case. Neither Curry nor Firpo can come remotely close to him in this regard. Drew 10,000+ coast-to-coast in pretty much every major territory of his era covering LA, San Fran, St Louis, Omaha, Indianapolis, Detroit, and New York. Also drew equivalent to the touring NWA champion in Kansas. Clearly one of the top babyface stars from 1959-65. Add to this a couple of major title reigns, some legendary feuds that were remembered fondly by fans for decades (vs Bruiser, Rogers, Gouldie, etc), pinfall wins over current HOFers, and the fact that some of these HOFers considered him one of their best opponents to draw with. Buddy Rogers, one of the greatest draws of all time, said that Ellis was his best rival (this covers a lot of ground). I agree with you on Street. Weakest candidate in the section, fortunate to have even made the ballot, would be an outright bad induction should that happen. The induction relies on votes from ignorant American reporters who, puzzlingly, continue to participate in a section they clearly don't understand. That means it's a strong possibility moving forward unless those voters spend some time learning about the alternative, stronger, choices. I hope they do.

I voted for Shingo. HOF-level worker for well over a decade in my view, with every objective advantage possible over Ishii. Cima feels a little weak, but not enough for me to outright object to it. I have Japan as the weakest section on the ballot and agree that the "next candidate up" mentality could become a major concern. I appreciate many of the cases, but it's the only section on the entire ballot with no candidates that I'm clamoring to induct. Hayabusa is next line so for those who support him, I think it's a safe bet for next year.

Cough. You're welcome. Kidding aside, I doubt I was the only one but I did push hard for Leduc, Marino, Kellett, and Grey to be added to the ballot because we need more votes in that section. That means more candidates. All, at a minimum, have ballot worthy cases.

I ranked Fujiwara 5th in the Japan section this year. Great worker, very good historic significance, and has something to offer in drawing power as a key rival to HOF-draws. Despite being a fan, I don't see him as HOF-level in any category, which is why I described him as a Hall of Very Good candidate on WOR. It's not a derogatory term even if some folks took it that way. Some friendly advice to Eric/Control21: if your goal is to convince voters to pull the trigger on Fujiwara, or anyone else you're advocating for, spend far less time questioning our credentials and more emphasizing the candidate's credentials. You could learn a lot from Dylan's approach in that regard.

He headlined a 50,000 capacity stadium show against Dara Singh, the biggest star in India's history, in 1975. Billed as "Firpo Zbyszco", out to avenge the loss suffered by his "uncle" Stanislaus Zbyszko at the hands of the Great Gama more than half a century earlier. We don't have attendance data, but it drew well enough that they repeated it in Namibia (small, wealthy, Indian population) later in the year. Singh actually invited Gordienko back for a 3rd round in 1976, but he had retired by that point. All of this indicates that he was still a major name in the mid-70s, but not in North America. He was never, actually, a major name in North America. Hence his placement in the Rest of the World section. Physically yes, he was done by the early 70s. My evidence for that is the anecdotal reports from fans & wrestlers who had nothing but the upmost respect for him - no reason for these folks to lie. Born in 1928, started wrestling in 1946, in-ring peak I'd guesstimate to be somewhere around the mid 50s - late 60s. My grandfather raved about seeing him live here in the UK during the 60s. As did most UK fans of that era. Along with Japanese fans who saw him vs Billy Robinson in Japan 1968, or Canadian fans who saw him vs Dory Funk Jr in 1969, etc. No doubt in my mind that he was a HOF-level talent during his prime.

I ranked Saint 7th out of 10 in that section. He was never a draw/main event talent, so his case is all about work (HOF-level for me) and historic significance. The latter I perceived to be no more than "good". His influence is mostly indie level, which isn't HOF-level under any circumstances. How he stacks up vs the competition: Jose Tarres was a HOF-level draw, the biggest star in Spain's history (stadium sized crowds), one of the biggest star's in Europe's history (top-10 all time for sure), but not much of a wrestler. Kills Saint in 2/3 categories and has every objective advantage over him. Is Saint's in-ring advantage strong enough to overcome all of that? George Gordienko was a great draw outside of North America, a perennial headliner throughout the 60s into the mid-70s, and considered arguably the greatest heavyweight wrestler of his era. Saint's only advantage here is maybe historical significance via influence. Is that enough to counter the massive drawing power & longevity-on-top gap? Billy Joyce wasn't much of a draw, was rarely one of the UK's top headliners, was considered a HOF-worker, and has great historical significance due to his direct influence on HOFers like Karl Gotch & Billy Robinson along with his role in the shooter lineage tree that meant a lot in that era (unlike today). I have no idea how you could rationally justify Saint > Joyce. Joyce drew more, headlined more, has more historic value, and no evidence to decipher the in-ring gap (if any) between them so....? I also consider DeNucci, Arion, and the Royal Brothers to be stronger candidates than Saint. To be clear, I see these 6 candidates as vastly superior to Saint. It's not a particularly close contest from my perspective. Dinamitas always poll well and are expected to do so again this year. Agree with you re Dixon. He's the strongest candidate in Mexico by far for me, mostly due to his overwhelming historical case - which involves both Mexico & the US.

I consider Bobby Davis to be the strongest candidate on the entire ballot and have uploaded a timeline of his career, attendance data (5k+), and newspaper archives that talk about what kind of a manager he was here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Ntw9DNyscIxo0tNx5nFcC6P1J3mmeERq?usp=sharing Summary: Drawing - managed the no.1 draw in the business for 3 years (highest peak of any manager in history), managed 4 different top-10 draws across ~6 years, overall longevity-on-top ~7 years. Ability - HOF-level. The best of his era, one of the best of all time. Overall longevity of work ~8.5 years. Positive historic significance - HOF-level. The blueprint for a TV-era heel manager. At a minimum, direct influence on Ernie Roth, Bobby Heenan (HOFer) and Gary Hart (HOFer). At a minimum, indirect influence on Jim Cornette (HOFer), and Paul Heyman (HOFer) who are both on record admitting this. The foundation he laid is still alive in 2024 with Heyman, but the name of the man has been long forgotten. 4th year on the ballot, I hope we correct that this year.

Ballots were sent out to us over the weekend: This is our ballot for the 2024 Hall of Fame. This ballot is being sent out to major wrestling stars, past and present, major management figures in the industry, writers and historians. If you are getting this, you are being asked your opinion on who should be inducted into this year's Hall of Fame class. The criteria for the Hall of Fame is a combination of drawing power, being a great in-ring performer or excelling in ones field in pro wrestling, as well as having historical significance in a positive manner. A candidate should either have something to offer in all three categories, or be someone so outstanding in one or two of those categories that they deserve inclusion. The names listed below are those under consideration for this year. To be eligible, a performer must have reached their 35th birthday and completed ten years since their debut as a full-time performer, or be someone who has been a full-time pro wrestler for at least 15 years. Longevity should be a prime consideration rather than a hot two or three year run, unless someone is so significant as a trend-setter or a historical figure in the business, or valuable to the industry, that they need to be included. However, just longevity without being either a long-term main eventer, a top draw and/or a top caliber in-ring performer should be seen as relatively meaningless. There are more changes in the rules this year largely because the modern U.S. & Canada category is so full of viable candidates. Each category is separate and the number of votes in a category allowed will be one in every three people on the ballot, so each category will have a different number. The idea is categories with fewer balloters won't be easier to get in, and categories with a lot of balloters won't be so difficult that it causes a logjam. The election is broken down into a number of categories. You should check each category for wrestlers that you feel you are familiar enough with based on geography that you've either traveled or are familiar with, and based on the time you have followed pro wrestling. You do not have to vote for a wrestler in every category you've checked. The ballot is also broken down to wrestlers and those who are not pro wrestlers but have been valuable parts of the industry. You can pick as few as zero in categories if you don't believe anyone on this list deserves inclusion or you can skip voting in categories that you don't believe you are familiar enough with to vote in. All responses are confidential. There is nothing to worry about politically about any involvement in this process. Your selections will not be revealed unless you choose to do so yourself. Anyone who receives mention on 60% of the ballots from the geographical region and time frame (broken down as Continental United States & Canada; Mexico; Japan; and the rest of the world) will be added to the Hall of Fame in the class of 2023. If you are unfamiliar with any of the candidates due to geography or having never seen them, that is fine. Ballots are sent to many people from all over the world and from different wrestling cultures so that everyone has as fair a shot as possible. The breakdown for modern and historical performers is 30 years ago, or 1994. So if the last year the person was a headliner, or was a key figure in the industry, was prior to 1994, they would be in the historical class. All performers who receive mention on 10% to 59.9% of the ballots from their geographical region or era will remain on the ballot for consideration next year. All those who receive less than 10% of the vote will be dropped from next year's ballot. They can return in two years based on if there is significant feedback from voters who say they will vote for them. This is mostly for wrestlers who are still active who may improve their career legacy, but can be for retired wrestlers if voters believe they should be put on or returned to the ballot. In addition, in following the lead of the baseball Hall of Fame, which is the model here, we have a 15-year-rule. The following candidates have been on the ballot since 2008. In baseball, this would be their last year of eligibility. Here, if they don't get at least 50% of the votes in this year's election they will be removed from the ballot. If they are modern candidates, they can be brought back in the historical performers era in two years if it is more than 30 years since their career as a Hall Fame level performer is up: The following candidates will be dropped from next year's ballot unless they are elected in or garner 50% of the vote: Johnny Saint Huracan Ramirez HISTORICAL PERFORMERS ERA (Seven maximum) Ole Anderson Afa & Sika Anoa'i Bob Armstrong Tully Blanchard & Arn Anderson w/J.J. Dillon British Bulldogs (Dynamite Kid & Davey Boy Smith) June Byers Wild Bull Curry Junkyard Dog Cowboy Bob Ellis Pampero Firpo Black Gordman & Great Goliath Archie "Mongolian Stomper" Gouldie Hart Foundation (Bret Hart & Jim Neidhart) Sputnik Monroe Dusty Rhodes & Dick Murdoch Johnny Rougeau Iron Sheik Ricky Steamboat & Jay Youngblood Mad Dog & Butcher Vachon Kevin & Kerry & David Von Erich MODERN PERFORMERS IN U.S/CANADA (Seven max) Asuka/Kana Mark & Jay Briscoe Young Bucks Edge Bill Goldberg Samoa Joe Matt & Jeff Hardy Becky Lynch Jon Moxley Kevin Nash & Scott Hall Paul Orndorff Randy Orton Kevin Owens C.M. Punk Roman Reigns Cody Rhodes Trish Stratus Rick & Scott Steiner Jimmy & Jey Uso Sid Vicious Bray Wyatt Sami Zayn JAPAN (Four max) Cima Satoshi Kojima & Hiroyoshi Tenzan Yoshiaki Fujiwara Hayabusa Antonio Inoki & Seiji Sakaguchi Kento Miyahara Zack Sabre Jr. Meiko Satomura Tiger Jeet Singh Shingo Takagi Yoshihiro Takayama Manami Toyota & Toshiyo Yamada MEXICO (Four max) Angel Blanco & Dr.Wagner Sangre Chicana Psycho Clown El Dandy Los Hermanos Dinamita (Cien Caras & Mascara Ano 2000 & Universo 2000) Dorrell Dixon Gran Hamada El Hijo del Santo & Octagon La Parka AAA Huracan Ramirez Mascarita Sagrada Volador Jr. EUROPE/AUSTRALIA/NEW ZEALAND/PACIFIC ISLANDS/AFRICA (Three max) Spyros Arion Dominic DeNucci George Gordienko Billy Joyce Killer Karl Kox The Royal Brothers (Bert Royal & Vic Faulkner) Johnny Saint Adrian Street Jose Tarres Otto Wanz NON-WRESTLERS (Seven max) Dave Brown (U.S. & Canada modern) Zane resoff (U.S.& Canada modern) Bobby Bruns (Japan) Bob Caudle (U.S. & Canada historical) Bobby Davis (U.S. & Canada historical) Joe Higuchi (Japan) Jim Johnston (U.S. & Canada modern) Larry Matysik (U.S.& Canada historical) James Melby (U.S. & Canada historical) Rossy Ogawa (Japan) Reggie Parks (U.S. & Canada modern) Morris Sigel (U.S. & Canada historical) Tony Schiavone (U.S. & Canada modern) George Scott (U.S. & Canada historical) Kevin Sullivan (U.S. & Canada historical) Mike Tenay (U.S. & Canada modern) Ted Turner (U.S. & Canada modern) Roy Welch (U.S. & Canada historical) Stanley Weston (U.S. & Canada historical) Grand Wizard (U.S & Canada historical) Koichi Yoshizawa (Japan)

Dave on WOR said that the only reason Jackie Pallo didn't survive this year, 50%+, was due to American driveby voters (mostly reporters) who popped into the section only to vote for Big Daddy. With Daddy gone, those voters are likely to leave the section with him and I think that benefits all the other candidates. I'd keep the ROW section as it is for the time being.

I considered Rocca & Perez to be the strongest candidates in the US historical section, same applied to Beauty Pair for Japan, and George Kidd for Rest of the World. Suffice to say, I'm very happy with the results overall.

Takayama was eliminated from the ballot in both 2003 & 2005, but might make a 3rd appearance next year. He's one of a few names Dave's considering.

Hase would be the HOF precedent used to justify Ishii. Both come down to how highly you value their work, which is completely subjective. Neither were draws, consistent headliners, major champions, or anything else of that nature. Based on this, I don't see Ishii as a new low bar.

I think he's counting a tag-team as one "new member". Regardless, my prediction: Rocca & Perez, Slaughter, Orndorff, Beauty Pair, Ishii, Los Hermanos Dinamita, and Blue Panther.

I did a show on the Rest of the World section (and Becky Lynch) that can be found here: https://www.patreon.com/posts/wrestling-hall-91712548

I've sent my ballot to Dave. For anyone else interested: HISTORICAL PERFORMERS ERA (eight maximum) Argentina Rocca & Miguel Perez Cowboy Bob Ellis Jack & Jerry Brisco Johnny Rougeau June Byers Kevin & Kerry & David Von Erich Mad Dog & Butcher Vachon Tiger Jeet Singh MODERN PERFORMERS IN U.S/CANADA (five maximum) Becky Lynch Bill Goldberg Paul Orndorff Young Bucks JAPAN (three maximum) Shingo Takagi The Beauty Pair (Jackie Sato & Maki Ueda) MEXICO (three maximum) Angel Blanco & Dr.Wagner Dorrell Dixon Sangre Chicana EUROPE/AUSTRALIA/NEW ZEALAND/PACIFIC ISLANDS/AFRICA (four maximum) Billy Joyce George Kidd Jackie Pallo Jose Tarres NON-WRESTLERS (six maximum) Bobby Davis (U.S. & Canada historical) Morris Sigel (U.S. & Canada historical) Roy Welch (U.S. & Canada historical) Stanley Weston (U.S. & Canada historical) Ted Turner (U.S. & Canada modern) - I'll note that Mike Marino made the ballot thanks to my longevity-on-top research from earlier in the year, but I couldn't justify voting for him with a 4 vote max in that section. If he gets knocked off, I hope he can return again in a few years time.