BO1

Bah, no luck this time I guess. Thank you for the thought of it anyway, if you ever get around to it, I'd be glad to see the match.

While I most profoundly disagree with you on the case of the Negro/Santo September 1997 Mascara/Caballera match, may I ask, where can I find online El Dandy vs Negro Casas, as it's a match between 2 of my favorite wrestlers, and I've been truly craving to see it forever. Thanks in advance, keep up the good work.

Oh, please do that walk through for every set John. The WWF one (still, as it's evergrowing) is one of my favorite reads around. I can't wait to hear the analysis and breakdown of matches that I liked(of the tiny amount of stuff I've seen, as I don't own the set yet) that you'd probably shit on.

Well, there's this match from Loss's list that didn't make your cut: Ric Flair vs Jumbo Tsuruta (AJPW 06/08/83 2/3 falls Tokyo, Japan) ****1/2 EDIT: Or that might be the 6/8/82 match? Damn, I haven't seen them go in a while...

Oops, gotcha Bix.

jdw wrote: As a side note, no Memphis for you John?

Oh why the fuck not.... Michael Hayes: Disregarding some of his reputation, of his WCCW stuff, I think he's resourcefull enough to hang around as a Freebird. Bringing the stooging to a team consisting of you, Buddy Roberts and Terry Gordy is enough. He's not my favorite promo guy either but I can't really knock on him or anything. His early-90's WCW run though, was exceptionally bad(on his part). Jawing with the fans while slapping on a chinlock was wrestling "psychology" back in those days of the freebirds. Oh, and the times he tried to Fargo Strut back in his and Gordy's Memphis debuts sucked. Dean Malenko: Dean, Dean, Dean. Much of a like/dislike relationship here. He's kind of a classic example in my book that refined finesse and aesthetic qualities aren't enough to reach out, grab me and evoke any emotions of mine during a match. With all due respect to the natural "Iceman" attributes of his performances pretty much all around(all though there are some exclusions), I can perhaps count on one hand the times I've felt serious peril or ascension of a certain story played out in a Dean Malenko singles match. I do think though, that the Malenkos were really good though, and perhaps I'd say that at points I preffer the dynamic of him and his brother in tag team enviorment. Masa Fuchi: This guy is perhaps one of the strongest backbones to a storyline in all history. While some of his singles work may not be getting the same amount of hype his counterparts are, his reflexebility to inflicting pain throughout his career(in the early 90's especially) was just mind-boggling. Grumpiness was due each time he would clash with a cheeky upstart, but goddamn, that's a lot of ways to torture a human being. Beyond the Tupelo Concession-Stand Brawl I haven't seen any of his Memphis stuff, although I do really hope to someday get around to seeing it. Tommy Rich: Being a southern worker with a fetish for artery-slicing is always a good thing. I think Tommy was servicable from what I've seen of him, as would usually prove being popular with the fans, usually selling on-point and well placing comeback or spots generally. Magnum TA: See, I didn't get around to the Mid-South set yet, I'm not from the US and too young to have been around back in those days(as to say I grew up on Crockett or something) but from what I've seen of the guy, I just love. Magnum came across like a blue-chipper who didn't expect worthwhile veterans to guide his hand to passable main-events and through just-in-time feuds, the guy would usually come of as an active part of a struggle. He could punch and time brawling spots, take it down to the mat well enough if needed, and portray the struggle that is the life thread running through a pro wrestling match well enough, that I don't see how one can't like the guy at least. Jerry Estrada: The day we'll offer givings to all those who've died(not literally, which is important to mention in a pro wrestling sense) for peoples pleasure, this guy'll get the biggest offering. He's turned the Salida de Bandera into art, restored faith into human pinballing(after Shawn Michaels almost ruined the market) and perfected the art of self-placement into a six man tag. Do I really need to go on? Marty Jannetty: Marty was fine, I guess, I'm just not the biggest Rockers fan. A lot of their stuff comes across as masturbatory(the "arm spin-spin back" spot being a classic case of this, at least in my book), sometimes almost on a level of pre-dated US Indy performers with a better grasp of wrestling mechanics and and not as trully shitty of a masturbatory habit to their work. The Royal Rumble 91 match though, is a thing of beauty. Following that, I must not also that I haven't been exposed to a lot of their AWA work, something I plan to fix in the future too. Kuniaki Kobayashi: This is someone who I totally get. Once again, I'm not a professor on his ouevure, but beyond Juniors' habits of the era rarely rearing their ugly head(Tombstones, anyone?), seamless athletics merge with brilliant pacing and choice of action placement within the confines of a wrestling match(something that another an even more seamless athlete never came across to me as being able to do ). My motto regarding him would be: the more, the better.

Too bad Ozu didn't live too long after wrestling was brought over, going to the matches seems like an excellent way to kick-off a night of drinking.

While this idea hasn't been a revered success, I'd be very grateful if someone could give me some template booking to Mexican feuds. By that I mean matches or angles that build to the blow-offs. I'm talking about different templates for Title feuds, Mask feuds, Hair feuds, just anything one can think off. It's just that from limited viewing I usually have the sense of what happens in the blow-offs, but never what really leads to them. Verbal challenges or random bookings(no such a thing as random bookings in wrestling, at least usually, but you get the idea)? These are the kind of questions I need answered. Also, if there's a difference between the ways feuds are performed over time(as in year spans) a mentioning of that would be great too. For instance, if that's how it was booked in the 70's, 80's or 90's, just a mention of it. Any help would win my full gratitude.

See Bix, in general, this is the kind of stuff I'm looking for to transfer to him, but in details, so they could be translated to game mod, which on the one hand the author wants balanced, on the other, realism is recommended. BTW, Memphis is one of the areas that could use the most help. If someone can please, give a rough sense of drawing for NJPW & AJPW main eventers of the time. I'm not even getting into the headache that is Mexico(seriously, Mexico is a fucking mess) and beyond yet. Midcarders and any additions would also do.

Before going on I'd just like to state for lack of better knowledge as to where place this thread, I'm doing so here. I guess I'll let Loss rule this thread's placement upon the different boards. Ok, cut to the deal, no bullshit around. Remember EWR? That freeware wrestling simulator? Well, it's creator Adam Ryland went next-gen with a payware(or how ever you'd label it) simulator called TEW. Current version is 2007, 2008 is in development. TEW default world is a fantasy wrestling world called the Cornellverse. TEW 2007's demo could be found here: http://www.greydogsoftware.com/downloads.php?id=66 Now, why should I bring up such a subject(which ultimately would lead one to think me plugging, which couldn't be further from the truth as I have no relation to the game developers whatsoever)? Well, TEW has a fantastic world mod by the name of Death Of The Territories, DOTT for short. DOTT starts a game world in April 1983(although it doesn't do so with the demo, demos automatically start at January 2007, probably next year 2008). DOTT comes packed with all the data of the era(that'd mean matches, workers, etc...), including some of the eras storylines(Want the Rat Pack/JYD feud? It's there). Well, eversince I heard of the author of this mod making a revised version of the mod for the 2008 version of the game, I offered my assistance. The 2008 version wants not only to cover the world DOTT is depicting at it's present, but also the world it enters(new Workers, new Promotions, all are part of the game so they can join in). http://www.bobinc.net/TEWDownloads/Mods/TEWDOTT07.exe - A full installation of the DOTT mod once the demo has been installed. http://www.bobinc.net/TEWDownloads/Mods/DOTT135Data.zip - DOTT Data just in case. http://www.bobinc.net/TEWDownloads/Mods/DOTT07_Pics.zip - The DOTT photos(workers, belts, logos) just in case. Now basically I put it to myself like this, why not just consult guys who know a lot regarding the subject? Well, if people who're reading this would like to help out, the demo and mod are a click away from you. If you'd take the time to get to know TEW's system a bit(like how worker popularity works, storylines, etc...), I'd be more than thankful if some of you guys could help me out regarding questions of the wrestling world from 1983 and on that are supposed to fit the mod world's terminology and mechanics. I personally would like to pass to the original author as much information and opinions as I can, for there are quite a bit stats in the world which are beyond my knowledge or that I'm not in full agreement with the author, and would like to back it up in some way with people who have extensive knowledge or viewing of the era(and eras forward, as formerly mentioned, but the "present" will be an immediate target). I'd first like to see some feedback before I post specifics(like if people have any interest in helping), but to anyone with any undistincted view upon this request, I might as well suggest you may look at it as some sort of 1983 project or something. P.S: Non-game relying help would be welcome also, I could just post explanations on how a certain game aspect works for people who're interested, and just try to translate a piece of advice from that.

That's wonderful news Bix, please post opinions on it once you give it a viewing. Tim, how does the Cage Match look highspot-based?

Stale, some more Lawler/Dundee questions on my part. The tag portion of the 1986 feud ends with a April 7 "No DQ Cage Match" for the Southern Title, and the whole feud for it's 1986 portion ends with a July 14 Loser Leaves Town match. The LLT match was preceeded by a MSC match of theirs a week before for the International Title where Larry Sharpe is involved that from highlights(albeit, really short ones) didn't seem to be the best they can bring. Now my question is, do the Cage Match and LLT exist on tape, and if someone has seen them, some opinions would be really nice too.

Wether or not Jumbo was lazy or not it's a more complex observarion then to just pass with sarcasm. There was a period where he was one of the problems in AJPW's declining popularity. Some of that can be explained by the change in wrestling style which Sayama and Choshu brought to Japanese wrestling with the more impact based energy bouts in the early 80's. Jumbo was too comfortable in his old dated 70's style that it didn't even seem inspired a lot of the time doing that. Thankfully Riki Choshu came to AJPW in 1985 and at least Tenryu was eager to learn and get influenced by this new and more exciting style. Jumbo wasn't too eager at first, but after a while he warmed up to it and started to get influenced as well. However when Choshu left again 1987 he went back into the 70's persona again and that wasn't a good thing after a couple of years of hot Choshu product. Jumbo didn't even seem interested in doing that again, but then Tenryu really took command and was the driving force of the company the rest of the 80's. When he split and started to feud with Jumbo in mid-87 it didn't explode at first, but they slowly got more hype with Tenryu doing the Choshu style and getting more and more hard hitting (thanks to Yokozuna Wajima not knowing how to sell properly as they had to hurt him to get the reaction desired). Jumbo adapted again, but he was rarely the iniciator in his career until Tenryu left and Tsuruta was the grand old daddy mixing it with the younger generation of Misawa, Kawada and so on. As for Liger. He's a junior heavyweight that should be remembered. A legend? Yeah, sure. He was a very positive light in NJPW. I'm very familiar with Yamada/Liger's career from 1985-93 and based off that I would say that Sayama's 3 years during 1981-83 was higher/better then Liger's prime, but the longivety and amounts of good work Liger had behind him qualifies him as one of the great juniors. If he belongs in the group of all time best? Borderline, IMO. But I'll say this; He was rarely a negative influence and people remember him for being the driving force for junior heavyweights in Japan where being a heavyweight means a lot more. Just for the record, I find Jumbo Tsuruta the greatest wrestler my eyes and heart have had the privilege to see and feel. I was reading through some old "Jumbo is lazy" Meltz/JDW discussions, and came across this. I don't have too much of a great knowledge of the era being talked about, night in night out that is(having seen some of the big matches), so it'd be great to have an insight of someone like John on this. I threw in the Liger/Sayama part too for anyone who wants to comment, and am wholeheartedly hoping this isn't against the original posters wishes or in any way could hurt him.

Jericho/JBL looks sickly beautiful from some handheld shots I saw of it. Too bad for a steam-loosening botch somewhere along that line, as written. Will have to watch it, see how bad is it.

A fantastic read all around guys, by all means please do keep it up.

Projects and lists, if I may. PM'd you. -- Loss, 01/09

Nothing personal Floyd, but those lists are quite sad. Thing is, most of the internet is infested with those, in all kinds of different subjects(cinema, music, etc...) so you just have to filter(or at least not think about them too much). I mean, even the DVDR lists don't come around too perfect once they're done. Subjectivity

Actually, besides me banging my head on some of the lower picks while reading through the list(especially the US indy picks and some others, Joe and Danielson, while best US indy guys of the millenium, are way too fucking high), I found it gradually improving(along the lines of my taste of course) as higher as it got. I still don't agree with every spot, as some better wrestlers(ahem, Dundee, a few more million guys...) are lower than some lesser ones(ahem, Michaels, Angle, Rock, Hennig) but I still think the list is pretty well rounded. Of course, a list like this would probably change a bit if we did it now with some promotions(or even certain matches) getting a recent viewing boom but still, a personal favorite list is always the better than a general consensous(not that it takes a genious to figure that out) so sometimes reading between the lines through peoples list with whom you actually share some opinions is the most fun part in these things. With all that said, I'm pretty content with the top 10 myself(especially the top 2 spots ).