Bob Morris

When it comes to storytelling for me, something that is "simple and to the point" works best. Some people complain that "formulas" are boring and not creative, but they work. Drowning fans in details through your booking or just tossing out a series of high spots for cheap pops doesn't equate to good storytelling. The matches I list among my favorites are those in which the workrate may not be the best, but the structure of the match works well and gets the fans to care about the match. And when the wrestlers are able to work the structure and make it that much more effective, that is where you find your best matches. When done properly, I can really get into the simple tales of "big man vs. smaller man" or "tag team heels work over face in peril until hot tag is made" or "popular face overcomes the odds to make the comeback." Stuff like that works when done properly without a need to get into complicated details or highspots for the sake of popping the crowd.

WWE.com announced that William Regal was suspended 60 days for a wellness policy violation. That explains why he was ousted as Raw general manager last night. So much for all the talk about how Regal had "cleaned himself up."

So just checking an old thread out of curiosity and Loss brings up the old "fantasy booking" that was on Rantsylvania. Some of us later found out the guy doing it was 14 years old, and if I'm not mistaken, he had been contributing to 1wrestling.com. I have no idea why I'm bringing this up... I just am. (I could also mention that I was one of those who wrote at The Shooters and joined others in making fun of that fantasy booking.)

Watching the 1991 Royal Rumble show, I was pretty impressed with the overall quality of the show. But one thing that really stood out for me was the face turn of Virgil. I really think this was one of the best face turns pulled off, especially since it came without Virgil saying a word. Fans picked up on the relationship between Ted DiBiase and Virgil pretty quickly, and the instant they started teasing that Virgil was tired of being DiBiase's lackey, fans bought into it quickly. They did a couple angles on Superstars in which Virgil appeared ready to break away from DiBiase but didn't. Then came the Royal Rumble, in which the two faced Dusty and Dustin Rhodes. The whole story, of course, was DiBiase and Virgil still teasing a split and then Virgil accidentally clotheslining DiBiase and getting tossed from the ring for it. The fans seemed certain that the Rhodes team would win it, but when they didn't happen, they seemed deflated. Until they did the postmatch angle with DiBiase and Virgil. You could tell the fans were antsy to see Virgil finally split from DiBiase, and they popped when he dropped the Million Dollar Belt on the mat. Then when DiBiase declared, "Need I remind you about your family... about your mother" and Virgil ends up picking up the belt, looking defeated, you can see the crowd becoming deflated again. And then, DiBiase makes the big mistake of turning his back on Virgil and leaving himself open for the belt shot. And when that happened, the crowd reaction was just incredible. I don't think there was one fan who wasn't cheering for Virgil's turn. Can you tell from my writing I marked out for it? Seriously, it was really a great face turn... the build was simple and to the point that Virgil didn't have to say a word. So what are some other face turns you all think were built well? (And yes, I await the heel turn thread that's sure to follow from this. )

You can likely trace this mindset back to several things during the Monday Night Wars era: 1. The fact that you had Nitros (EDIT: and Raws as well) in which the main event was often ending with a run-in without somebody getting the decisive win. 2. The fact that the weekly shows and PPVs tended to have many matches ending with a run-in, or more than one run-in, whether it lead to a pinfall, submission or screwjob ending (or in other words, they became excessive). 3. The fact some fans always suspected that, if a screwjob ending was used, it was always because somebody didn't want to do the job. I've seen a few people who have a similar mindset toward a heel using the ropes or pulling the tights to get a pinfall, complaining it's not a "clean ending" when part of what makes a heel a heel is that he tends to cheat to win. Of course, I think some of these same fans would put over certain memorable moments from that era as being great, despite the fact they usually involved run-ins and an ending that was far from being clean.

I did recall the Taylor and Orndroff stuff from the RSPW FAQ, but of course, the information in it varied from accurate to not accurate. Mostly, though, I threw that out because there are those who like to know who in particular had the idea, regardless of who was in charge. Briefly touching upon Russo, one could easily say that what happened was as much the fault of Bill Busch (who brought Russo on board and allowed him full control of booking for three months before changing his mind) and Brad Siegel (who more or less took on Busch's duties after Busch resigned), if we are using the argument of "who is in charge." Not to absolve Russo of any blame, but he wasn't the "executive vice president of WCW" at any time, he was the head booker. That's mostly where I'm trying to look at Bischoff's reign, as in what can he be credited or not from the standpoint of his position. Under Bischoff, several different people held the book for various periods (Rhodes, Flair, Sullivan, Nash) and those are the people that get the credit or blame for what got booked. I do see what tomk is saying though with regards to Bischoff. I'll address one other point he made: When it came to Russo, I don't think he's passed credit on to Tony Schiavone for the David Arquette deal because he wants to be absolved of blame. Russo maintains to this day he liked the idea and the photo in USA Today is proof that it was a good idea. His real problem is he keeps maintaining it was a good idea, regardless of who thought of it first, even with the numbers clearly indicating it did not work.

Yes, it was 1994... my mistake in referring to 1993 previously.

Reading through some of the old threads about WCW and reading several posts debating just what type of impact Eric Bischoff really had, as well at least one post regarding how all the guys in charge of WCW would rank, has inspired me to bring up this subject... and maybe it will help to revive this particular section of the forum. So what I'm going to do is throw out some of the arguments or pluses that have been thrown out regarding the positives Bischoff contributed to WCW and take a look at where things really stand with them. 1. He was the only executive vice president of WCW to see the company turn a profit: It is true that WCW had been losing money ever since Ted Turner purchased it, up until around 1995 or so, but there's the question as to just how profitable it really was. It is true that PPV buyrates were going up, but they weren't "huge" numbers, with the exceptions of PPVs such as 1997 Bash at the Beach and 1997 Starrcade. It also seemed WCW was spending money just as fast as they earned it, thanks to Eric Bischoff just dispensing money like it was candy on Halloween night. It's probably better stated that, under Bischoff, WCW ultimately saw its most successful period, but how profitable it truly was is another matter entirely. 2. His signing of Hulk Hogan attracted plenty of interest: Truth be told, once the Hogan/Flair feud ran its course, business immediately declined as nobody was interested in seeing Hogan go up against Ed Leslie in whatever gimmick he used, or John Tenta as Avalanche, or a heel-turned Big Bubba Rogers. They did have a potentially good feud with Vader, but it was killed the instant Hogan no-sold Vader's powerbomb. Had WCW booked that differently, they might have gone more business out of the feud. It wasn't until Hogan turned heel and made himself a fresh character that he really started to draw interest in WCW over a longer period of time. 3. He came up with the nWo angle that did big business: There are those who have actually credited Terry Taylor and Paul Orndorff with the actual ideas of an "invasion" angle and how to present it. Hogan, of course, is the guy who coined the term "New World Order." Hall and Nash are said to have come up with the catch phrases and such. As far as Bischoff goes, one could argue that his willingness to play a role in the setup of the angle, such as the powerbomb spot with Nash, is an example of how Bischoff contributed to it. 4. He came up with the idea of Nitro and launched the Monday Night Wars: Bischoff has said himself that it was Ted Turner who came up with the idea of a Monday night show opposite Raw. That being said, Bischoff's tactics he used on Nitro, such as booking on the fly and giving away Raw results, are debated constantly as to just how effective they are (or in the case of giving away Raw results, whether or not it was dirty pool). Nitro's debut certainly left an impression on many people, particularly the surprise appearance of Lex Luger, and the fact that Nitro had plenty of memorable moments in its early runs could be attributed to Bischoff understanding how to get Nitro to have an immediate impact on viewers. 5. He came up with the cruiserweight division: The cruiserweight division certainly added a new dimension to WCW shows, and helped to appeal to those who still preferred straightforward wrestling, even with the aspects that emphasized entertainment being thrown onto the shows (as much of the nWo stuff was). The problem with the CW division was that it tended to pigeonhole some wrestlers, particularly wrestlers like Eddie Guerrero and Chris Jericho, who were showing they could do more than just be a competent cruiserweight. 6. He got Vince McMahon to be more focused on his own product and revamp it: In a way, that is true, but Vince's initial response was the wrong response. Things like the Billionaire Ted skits and the "Attention: Scott Hall" note on the WWF's AOL site did nothing to help Vince and his company, and it did take Vince more than a year to revamp his product so it came off as "edgier." When I look back at Bischoff's run in WCW, there were definitely plenty of ups and downs. The nWo angle definitely revolutionized the business, but the question remains as to just how much of it was Bischoff's responsibility. And Bischoff was certainly aggressive, but one could say he was "aggressive to a fault" given that he was often signing talent when not having any clue what to do with said talent. Out of those who held the "executive vice president of WCW" position, I would say he was the best of the lot in terms of overall success, but his faults really did stand out. In particular, his desire to be "one of the boys" rather than their boss was a big problem.

Perhaps not, but there is certain to be some additional insight given by some of the people who were part of Ric Flair's career. I would imagine we'd get some insight from Greg Valentine, Ricky Steamboat, and maybe Harley Race. Obviously, Arn Anderson is going to be giving input. And given that Big Show put over Flair on Flair's final Raw, I wonder if we'll get some insight from him. Would be nice to get a perspective of other current WWE'ers other than just HHH and Shawn (who you know will get quoted extensively). On the matches selected, there are some good ones, but the Flair/Steamboat match chosen is a bit of a head scratcher. I know at least one of their 1989 matches was on the first Flair DVD (which I still need to buy... that's why I'm not positive if just one or more than one from 1989 exist), and then Dave Meltzer mentioned today that Flair and Steamboat had a match in 1993 on Clash of the Champions that was better than the Stampede match. Not to say the Stampede match was bad... it was pretty good, but they had better matches than that one.

Yes... and people actually remember Rantsylvania?

I know this is an old thread, but I am quite disappointed this one never came up, because it should be in everyone's top 10. The Gobbledygooker So the WWF spent weeks trotting out a giant egg, promising it would hatch at the 1991 Survivor Series. Every week, it seemed, Mean Gene Okerlund was pulling out fans from the audience asking them what they thought was in the egg. The usual response was "a turkey" and, in a way, it turned out to be so. Hector Guerrero pops out of the egg dressed in a suit that looked like a mutated turkey, gobbles at Mean Gene as Gene actually understands what he's saying, then heads to the ring to go dancing with Mean Gene as "Turkey in the Straw" plays and the fans turn on the whole thing. As I recall, the last time we saw the Gobbledygooker was joining Koko B. Ware in singing "Bird, Bird, Bird." Poor Koko always seemed to get the shaft in WWF. It's also worth noting somebody else debuted at 1991 Survivor Series, teased as a "mystery team member" for Ted DiBiase's Million Dollar Team. Said mystery person was mentioned merely in passing, but this wrestler would go on to become one of the top WWF/E wrestlers for many years. Of course, that mystery man was The Undertaker. The lesson to be learned? The more you hype a surprise, the bigger the payoff better be or it's going to be a flop... while sometimes, the things you hype less turn out to be more successful in the long run.

I've enjoyed reading what Frank has to write, same thing with John. I don't always agree with them, and John can tell you that he and I, and Frank and I, would have our debates. That's what happens when you discuss wrestling, or any subject, on the Internet. Especially when you are pretty passionate or interested about the subject. I know from reading Frank's posts that he is very passionate about his beliefs. People just need to take a deep breath, realize he has an opinion that he strongly believes in and feel free to agree or disagree with it.