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I admit it, I marked out


sek69
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Even though the booking was about as obvious as you can get, I still marked out for Batista turning on HHH. I liked the callback to them turning on Orton with the thumbs down too. That's as close to continuity as we'll get with WWE programming these days.

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Guest TheShawshankRudotion

I liked the thumbs down spot, but they could have built it better. They took so long establishing it that it was like "make your decision already!", so it wasn't the mark out moment I thought it would be.

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Guest Bruiser Chong

Didn't watch, but sounded cool, promos aside. I just hope they haven't built this up to be another scenario that results in HHH retaining the title.

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Guest TheShawshankRudotion

Doubt it.

 

Batistas turn has been focused more on HHH than Batista, so I can't imagine his title reign being any different. Maybe HHH finds a replacement for Batista who debuts at WM? Then Batista vs. Generic Big Guy at Backlash and then build towards Bad Blood with Batista vs. HHH? Batista beats HHH, holds it till Summerslam, maybe faces Orton? Edge? Benoit? Jericho? Another new member of Evolution? Beats them, faces HHH at Unforgiven and loses?

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Guest Some Guy

HHH will have the belt back by May. Going by the crowd reaction, the fans loved the powerbomb, but when he was posing with the belt they didn't really seem to care. I don't think the guy will make it big. Unless HHH does a clean job in under 10 minutes (tha match should be Batista dominating, HHH cheats to get an advantage, hits the Pedigree, Batista pops up, spinebuster, powerbomb, new champ) he'll be exposed. Batista is Goldberg redux and we saw how badly they handled the booking of Goldberg. I have a bad feeling that HHH will have the match go 20 and we'll get HHH/Steiner all over again, Batista will bomb and by May we'll have an 11 time champion.

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Guest Bruiser Chong

I don't think he has what it takes to be a dominant player in WWE. He's over and riding a wave of success right now, but age and ability aren't on his side. He'd probably be best suited as one of the top players who never holds the Heavyweight title.

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I love how once it appears clear that someone new is getting a world title push, the IWC turns on them like one of Hulk Hogan's partners in the 80s.

 

Obviously there's a big "now what?" factor after HHH drops the title to anyone, and that's mainly because he dominated for so long that no one is seen as a credible main eventer anymore because they've all lost to Hunter 657 times.

 

Wrestling 101 says you put the title on your hottest hand. Batista's that guy now. He's over, he's got the look that gives Vince wood, and he shows signs of having charisma (which is all you need to be a top star in wrestling).

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Guest TheShawshankRudotion

A weak champion and a failure are two different things. Either you are confused or "everyone" is.

 

Things going against Batista

 

1)They haven't had him cut a long promo yet and use him to play off HHH and Flair. This is similar to Benoit last year, and when he had the title it wasn't any different. So this may mean they don't believe in Batistas promo ability. Letting the champ talk is a big part of being the champ, so when the champ doesn't talk then the champ has nothing to say.

 

2)Limited heels. They didn't elevate anyone for Benoit last year, he was tied at the hip to HHH for 90% of his run. At Bad Blood Benoit was downgraded to feuding with La Rez and Kane and then resumed feuding with HHH and barely had something with Orton (which there was a one night follow-up on...groan.)

 

3)Wrestling. People have this weird notion that Batista has improved a lot. He hasn't. He has just feuded with Benoit a lot and Benoit made him look like gold. And he yells a lot after his moves. They have protected him extremely well in-ring over the past few months, he won't have that luxury when he'll have to wrestle the 15+ minutes a champ has to wrestle on PPV. Lots of smoke and mirrors here which means the match runs the risk of being overbooked... like the ending of RAW this week.

 

4) History. HHH will eventually get the title back. So why would anyone want to invest their interest in Batistas title run when they know he's going to lose it? Why do they care if HHH loses it when he's going to get it back? HHH would have to leave the WWE for a while to let the fans ease into a Batista title reign. That won't happen.

 

And all this makes for a lameduck champion. Like Benoit. What did Benoit do during his title reign? A whole lot of nothin. Buyrates didn't really go down, ratings didn't really go down, attendance didn't really go down, so he couldn't have been labelled a failure... he just wasn't a success. He was, however, a weak champion.

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Guest TheShawshankRudotion

I should note that I think Batista will do better than Benoit as champion. I think HHH see's Batista more as a project than Benoit so will be more motivated to let Batista be successful.

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Guest Bruiser Chong

The prevailing wisdom amongst the IWC (I hate that term, but what else do you call them?) is that Batista is doomed to fail once he gets the belt.

Hard not to when you've had so much proof to support the notion.

 

People thought things were turning around when Benoit won the title last year, but I couldn't get myself amped up for it (which shocked Loss during a conversation we had the day after WM) because I knew that things as a whole weren't going to change. HHH wasn't the champ, but he was still the main attraction. And as the main attraction, it was only a matter of time before he got back into the title picture.

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1. I see where you're going with this, and it very well may be that they don't have faith in his promo skills, but what I've heard of him is Perfectly Acceptable Promo Work so far. I'm sure he knows he's going to have to step his game up if he gets the belt.

 

2. Agreed 100%. HHH has RAW set up where getting anyone else over is tough because he's taken the balls of everyone else on the roster.

 

3. I think he has improved. When he started, he was pretty much limited to the Generic Hoss Moveset, and while he's not the next Lou Thesz I think he's made great strides in terms of improving his workrate. He's been in matches with people other than Benoit where he's had to do more than be carried and he's handled himself well.

 

4. I think this point is what's causing the IWC heel turn on Batista. Now that it looks like he's going to get the title, all it does is start the countdown to HHH winning it back again. I could make a comparison here to HHH's idol, but I don't want Loss to have a stroke.

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Guest TheShawshankRudotion

I still don't see the heel turn on Batista. It's a very small % of people who 'speak out' against it.

 

Batista averages 3 sentences per skit, I don't know how anyone could properly guage how well (or poorly) he speaks. His work on Monday doesn't really favour him because he poorly paced his lines and managed to decrease fan enthusiasm with every line. Bad writing, probably, but I think that was a problem with Benoit as well. Benoit followed their scripts and the scripts suck and a written by guys who have never stood infront of an audience of 10,000 people before. If Batista follows the scripts, the promos will blow.

 

I have not seen any improvement in his work, just the structuring in his matches. He's still using the same moves as he did before, and he's still putting in the same effort.

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I think there is one way this could work out for Batista in the ring. Make him brawl and bleed buckets the way Bradshaw is doing on SD!.

 

Look, Bradshaw may be ass in the ring and an un-over champion but he has been able to survive in the main events by participating in brawls and bleeding alot. If they did this with Batista, who is over, and hide his lack of wrestling ability then people may pay to see him go at it.

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Guest Some Guy

Maybe it's just me then. I just seemed to sense people turning on Batista now that it's offical he's facing HHH at WM. It's just a vibe I got.

I never thought much of him and never got on the "Pimpista" bandwagon. He's gotten over to a degree because he's been put in a postition to get over to a degree. He's got some charisma and big muscles but he's yet to have a good match with someone not named Benoit or cut a good promo. His move set is basically clothesline, spinebuster, powerbomb (which he doesn't do properly every time, he's seems to haev trouble sitting down on occasion), and weak looking punches. HHH will do the same thing at Mania to Batista as he did to Goldberg.

 

The anatomy of Goldberg's success was that he had short dominating matches, rarely talked, didn't sell much, and was just "Goldberg". So upon his entry into WWE HHH started calling him "Bill", having long tradional face/heel matches, and as a result made him sell, and they gave him a ton of mic time.

 

Batista has gotten over because of the postition he's been in. He's the "enforcer" of Evolution (which is an insult to AA, who is infinately better than Batista is every way besides bench pressing and dressing), over the last few months he has barely lost, sold, or been put in a position to look bad (they even inmplied that he had figured out HHH plan before Monday). So Raw this week he gets a big pop for signing the Raw contract and putting HHH through a table, but afterwards the pop lessens as he holds up the belt. The mystique is gone and we all know who will get the upperhand in the feud next week. HHH lost to Benoit several times but never put him over, he will lose to Batista at WM, but will do it on his terms and will not put the guy over. Watch as the legs are cut out from under him on the way to WM and then watch how badly booked his title reign is and who is portrayed as the biggest star on the show. HHH is Hulk Hogan and every other guy who gets the belt is Savage or Warrior, they're holding HHH's belt. Unless they keep the fucking thing off of him for at least 18 months and decrease his push and TV time ten fold they're not going to get out of the funk they're in.

 

I'm not "heeling" on Batista as much as the whole WWE for fucking up so much over the last 4 years. And I've never liked the guy to begin with.

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Guest TheShawshankRudotion

I think SG and I are actually the only two people who have spoken out 'against' Batista, to an extent. And I am not even against Batista, I just don't feel he is worth a large investment and wasn't feeling the push since he was pushed over Benoit.

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